It concerns something about the upcoming changes to fishing and my own guild's structure.
We have a smaller guild, and our guild alchemist is already at a skill level 300. But this person's herbalism is very low in comparison. This person is also the guild's herbalism banker. So to me, it looks as if this person has used guild supplies and bought items at the AH to get her alchemy to max. Which is fine.
With me, my cooking, skinning, leatherworking, and fishing are all at 300.
So this person comes to me over and over for Oilies, Snappers, and Eels.
I think she became offended at one point because she saw some of me eels up for sale in the AH. She asked for them specifically and states she needs quite a few.
Am I looking at this the wrong way? ... because I'm starting to feel like a doormat.
I've worked for everything I do. Should I set my time aside to do fishing for her as well, when she has not even taken the time to improve her own herbalism? Also, being an alchemist, she has not taken the time to pick up a fishing pole.
On one hand this person is always ready to help a guildie out whenever they need help with quests or instances. So that's a good thing. She is also very popular in the guild.
On the other hand I have not gotten one potion sent back to me at all.
In your opinion do I have a reason to rant? Part of me feels responsible because in the beginning I offered to do this to help out, but now it just seems expected.
I generally split what I pull up out of the water (unless I'm broke). Half goes to her, half to the AH. But if she sees me selling the items and asks me about it ... what would be the most tactful way of discussing this?
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18 posts
Im in a guild that does watever it can for another member so I'm not completly sure about this. It sounds like ur guildie is trying to get money from ur work tho. U can go around the problem of her seeing u put up those items in AH by making an alt and sending them to it to put up in AH.
Hope This helps :P
Hope This helps :P
Thanks.
You see what I mean though. It's kind of a sketchy situation. She does help where she can. Although I do as well. We all help each other and I don't feel good about categorizing "how much" help each one gives. But I also don't want to be taken for granted either.
Yes I may go around it by making an alt, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to.
You see what I mean though. It's kind of a sketchy situation. She does help where she can. Although I do as well. We all help each other and I don't feel good about categorizing "how much" help each one gives. But I also don't want to be taken for granted either.
Yes I may go around it by making an alt, but I was hoping I wouldn't have to.
Well we all like to help the guild, but sometimes you have to sell stuff, while We(Read I) do out best to help the guild, we also have to help oureselves.
It is fishy that alch is 300 but herb is lower, I had herb at 300 by level 37 every time i have done it.
It is fishy that alch is 300 but herb is lower, I had herb at 300 by level 37 every time i have done it.
If you can't see that they are scamming you, then you probably deserve to get took.
"In all proper relationships there is no sacrifice of anyone to anyone. An architect needs clients, but he does not subordinate his work to their wishes. They need him, but they do not order a house just to give him a commission. Men exchange their work by free, mutual consent to mutual advantage when their personal interests agree and they both desire the exchange. If they do not desire it, they are not forced to deal with each other. They seek further. This is the only possible form of relationship between equals. Anything else is a relationship of slave to master, or victim to executioner."
Howard Roark, The Fountainhead
Howard Roark, The Fountainhead
Gotcha. Point noted. And no I don't deserve to get "taken".
Just needed some alternate perspectives to see if I was missing some angle of the equation. Thanks for your input. Much obliged to you.
Just needed some alternate perspectives to see if I was missing some angle of the equation. Thanks for your input. Much obliged to you.
The heck is your alchemist pal using those fishies for? The only thing I can see is:
Unless your MT is a Druid, I don't see this as being the make-or-break armor bonus for your guild. I think you should find out what those are being used for, because it looks like you're being taken in.
If she is using them for personal use (as a Druid in my guild who is an alchemist drinks these like a thirsty man in the desert drinks water), then I think it would only be fair to ask for a stack or two of Major Healing Potions for yourself in exchange. I mean, 20 Stonescale Eels is basically equal to 10 Major Health Potions, right? Even 5 would make it worth it...
Since she obviously isn't skilling up with them any more, she's not likely making Flasks, and the Stonescale Shield is on a health potion timer, only the Greater Defense makes sense, and it isn't that good. Ask her what she is making and how it is helping, or if you don't want to pry, just say "Oh, sure, here's the eels; can I have two stacks of Health Potions now?"
Quote:
http://wow.allakhazam.com/item.html?witem=13445
Unless your MT is a Druid, I don't see this as being the make-or-break armor bonus for your guild. I think you should find out what those are being used for, because it looks like you're being taken in.
If she is using them for personal use (as a Druid in my guild who is an alchemist drinks these like a thirsty man in the desert drinks water), then I think it would only be fair to ask for a stack or two of Major Healing Potions for yourself in exchange. I mean, 20 Stonescale Eels is basically equal to 10 Major Health Potions, right? Even 5 would make it worth it...
Since she obviously isn't skilling up with them any more, she's not likely making Flasks, and the Stonescale Shield is on a health potion timer, only the Greater Defense makes sense, and it isn't that good. Ask her what she is making and how it is helping, or if you don't want to pry, just say "Oh, sure, here's the eels; can I have two stacks of Health Potions now?"
if the potions are for guild-use, then more people than you need to be supplying these mats, including the alchemist herself.
if she is instead using your mats (like the fish) to sell off items and make her own profit, she at least could buy them from you for a nominal fee.
imo when i start some trade condition like this, i always tell the friend/guildie that for the time being, this situation is like this...you pay $x for y items.
but it could change in the future..including the fact that i dont feel like making it a regular routine to fish for items..i just fish when i want to and therefore i should not be depended upon as a regular supplier of various alchemy fishes. that might help you to get over this situation if she understands something like this
Not trying for psychobabble here, but it seems like your guildie has no trouble asking for or giving help, while you seem to have some trouble asking for it but not for giving it. If the guildie wants the fish, give them the fish - that's the way good guilds work. But if you think it would be convenient to have some nice potions, ask for them. It seems like you've done enough for your alchemist to get just about what you want in exchange - I know what eels sell for! You don't need to make it a quid pro quo, one potion for one fish or anything, but if she expects to get fish for the asking, you should expect potions for the asking. And gold too for that matter - if you really need the gold for something (a mount, a new weapon, whatever), you should certainly not hesitate to ask for it from someone you've helped out this much. If they're as free with their potions and gold as you have been with your fish, it sounds like a great guild! If not, it's time to establish some groundrules.
I can understand where you're coming from. As a "guild fisherman", it falls to me to supply the stonescale eel to our alchemists to make Greater Stoneshield pots for our MC runs. Fishing, for me, is my primary source of income, which puts me in an uncomfortable position of giving up revenue for the betterment of the guild.
The way I put it into perspective is thus: doing things like giving up fish for guild runs is akin to tithing. You don't have to give them ALL up, or else you wouldn't be able to have a home, buy clothes, eat, etc. But if the guild you're in is worth being in, then a little sacrifice is all to the good.
If alchemists want to try and get greedy and demand all of your fish, politely tell them that you have to make money too. If they want unlimited stonescale eel for free, grab a pole and cast out. But fishing takes time, and your time is worth something. They need to understand and accept this, and if the number of eel that you provide is insufficient for their needs, they are more than welcome to pay market price. After all, they already got the guild discount by getting fish for free.
Now, if the alchemist is wanting eel for free, and does not intend to use them for the betterment of the guild (Read: make stonescale oil and sell it on the AH) then you can tell them to eat a fatty. And you can point them at this thread so that they can see that I told you to do so. That's just being greedy and trying to take advantage of a guildie, and you shouldn't have to abide that kind of stuff. And your GM should agree, unless he's a powerass.
/rant
The way I put it into perspective is thus: doing things like giving up fish for guild runs is akin to tithing. You don't have to give them ALL up, or else you wouldn't be able to have a home, buy clothes, eat, etc. But if the guild you're in is worth being in, then a little sacrifice is all to the good.
If alchemists want to try and get greedy and demand all of your fish, politely tell them that you have to make money too. If they want unlimited stonescale eel for free, grab a pole and cast out. But fishing takes time, and your time is worth something. They need to understand and accept this, and if the number of eel that you provide is insufficient for their needs, they are more than welcome to pay market price. After all, they already got the guild discount by getting fish for free.
Now, if the alchemist is wanting eel for free, and does not intend to use them for the betterment of the guild (Read: make stonescale oil and sell it on the AH) then you can tell them to eat a fatty. And you can point them at this thread so that they can see that I told you to do so. That's just being greedy and trying to take advantage of a guildie, and you shouldn't have to abide that kind of stuff. And your GM should agree, unless he's a powerass.
/rant
36 posts
I am a guild master, and have a fairly large guild on Dragonmaw. Our guild is quite generous in that many of us have been together since the beginning and have gotten to know each other very well. Here are a few things IMO that should be taken into account:
1) On crafted items: Trade item for mats. So if you want an item you provide the crafter with materials to make it. If a crafter needs an item, I would expect they would return something to you for your services in gathering the Mats.
2) You have EVERY right to make money for yourself. It is nice to be in a guild where you give to the guild and the guild gives back, but there are times in which you need to do for yourself.
I would tell your guildie that she is welcome to buy your Mats as a reduced price, or that you will give her excess when you can AFFORD to do so. If she has an issue getting mats, maybe she should look into leveling her own skill. I personally KNOW its not that hard as I have a 300 alch / 300 herb (by lvl 40), a 300 enchanter /300 tailor, a 300 skinner, a 200 miner (within a few hours worth of farming).
Maybe this is an issue to take up with the Guild master, and find out exactly how the guild as a whole and each member is expected to contribute.
As a GM, I never require items to be donated to the bank or to other guildies. I do expect that my members trade for fair prices, help out when they can afford to do so, or sell as reduced prices when they an afford it.
1) On crafted items: Trade item for mats. So if you want an item you provide the crafter with materials to make it. If a crafter needs an item, I would expect they would return something to you for your services in gathering the Mats.
2) You have EVERY right to make money for yourself. It is nice to be in a guild where you give to the guild and the guild gives back, but there are times in which you need to do for yourself.
I would tell your guildie that she is welcome to buy your Mats as a reduced price, or that you will give her excess when you can AFFORD to do so. If she has an issue getting mats, maybe she should look into leveling her own skill. I personally KNOW its not that hard as I have a 300 alch / 300 herb (by lvl 40), a 300 enchanter /300 tailor, a 300 skinner, a 200 miner (within a few hours worth of farming).
Maybe this is an issue to take up with the Guild master, and find out exactly how the guild as a whole and each member is expected to contribute.
As a GM, I never require items to be donated to the bank or to other guildies. I do expect that my members trade for fair prices, help out when they can afford to do so, or sell as reduced prices when they an afford it.
Only problem I can see is letting her hold the position of herbalism banker when she's an alchemist herself. If no one keeps any records of what goes in the herb bank, she can pretty much do whatever she pleases with the herbs and not one of you have a clue what potions she's brewing in the meantime. The best way to solve this would be to make the herb banker be someone that has different professions like a blacksmith or engineer. As dumb as it sounds, it's nice to have these type of controls set into place to prevent guildies from being dishonest and taking advantage of you.
And she shouldn't expect free fish from you either unless you are in a giving mood. It's your fish to do with as you please. If you want to sell it, sell it. If she takes offense at it, say that you spent your time fishing and if she wants some she can either 1)pay gold or 2)trade. Fishing takes time and there is no way you should be expected to waste your time for no due compensation. I can see if she was making potions for high end raids that the entire guild would use for success that you should donate them (hey successful runs benefit you too), but outside of that, you're not obliged to do anything you don't want.
And she shouldn't expect free fish from you either unless you are in a giving mood. It's your fish to do with as you please. If you want to sell it, sell it. If she takes offense at it, say that you spent your time fishing and if she wants some she can either 1)pay gold or 2)trade. Fishing takes time and there is no way you should be expected to waste your time for no due compensation. I can see if she was making potions for high end raids that the entire guild would use for success that you should donate them (hey successful runs benefit you too), but outside of that, you're not obliged to do anything you don't want.
4 posts
I agree with FallonofDragonmaw. I'm un-guilded at the moment, but I have friends that help me with certain quests or escort me to get herbs or whatever I need. I always give them any drops they want once we are finished. None of them have ever "expected" anything from me. You got to make a living and you can't do that by giving away anything especially at lower levels.
I understand that some guilds require a donation from members while others rely on the good graces of their members. Both ideas are sound, but you should never be expected to give away something you've invested time and energy in.
If a friend asks for a specific potion and I have to go gather herbs for it - I always give it to them at cost. If I get a request from some random person for items - I add %20 to the going price for gathering fees and I make them aware of that prior to embarking on the run.
Guilds and friends always get a reduced rate as suggested by FallonofDragonmaw.
So to make a long story longer - never give away anything and don't let people walk over you because they will.
I understand that some guilds require a donation from members while others rely on the good graces of their members. Both ideas are sound, but you should never be expected to give away something you've invested time and energy in.
If a friend asks for a specific potion and I have to go gather herbs for it - I always give it to them at cost. If I get a request from some random person for items - I add %20 to the going price for gathering fees and I make them aware of that prior to embarking on the run.
Guilds and friends always get a reduced rate as suggested by FallonofDragonmaw.
So to make a long story longer - never give away anything and don't let people walk over you because they will.
30 posts
There's prabably lots of people who wont like what im going to say, but here it goes... Yes you should share what you catch that which can be used for Alchemy, but..... I feel she is being unreasonable and lazy, if I were you, Id give her a few here and there, and then sell some for profit off an alt, that way she cant whine. =)
Thank you so much for your replies. You all have been very helpful.
As one poster put it, I don't have trouble giving but I do have trouble asking. This is true. I've always expected myself to be self reliant in this game. All that I ask for in turn is knowledge of the higher end of the game. In doing so everything I can offer to the guild will only make the guild stronger, and eventually it will all come back to me in the end.
Am I gullible?
We have a good guild leader whose ideas, expectations, and goals match my own. I have not brought this to his attention yet, as I chose to deal with things on my own before burdening him with something that I can handle.
There are others in which I have an excellent rapport with on the give and take. My tribal leatherworkings and a Hunter guildie's Dragonscale for example. We are always looking out for one another. Almost every day we drop something in each other's mailbox. We also have an excellent tailor, and some awesome weaponsmiths.
On an end note I did meet up with this alchemist (lol .. while I was fishing) and we did get into a conversation. I kept it pleasant, but I did let her know that she needs to pull her fishing pole out of the sack and help because I can't do it all. And I decided to continue to sell my wares under my main. If there is an issue there I will deal with it diplomatically.
*** I do like the idea of having bankers who bank items different than their chosen profession.
As one poster put it, I don't have trouble giving but I do have trouble asking. This is true. I've always expected myself to be self reliant in this game. All that I ask for in turn is knowledge of the higher end of the game. In doing so everything I can offer to the guild will only make the guild stronger, and eventually it will all come back to me in the end.
Am I gullible?
We have a good guild leader whose ideas, expectations, and goals match my own. I have not brought this to his attention yet, as I chose to deal with things on my own before burdening him with something that I can handle.
There are others in which I have an excellent rapport with on the give and take. My tribal leatherworkings and a Hunter guildie's Dragonscale for example. We are always looking out for one another. Almost every day we drop something in each other's mailbox. We also have an excellent tailor, and some awesome weaponsmiths.
On an end note I did meet up with this alchemist (lol .. while I was fishing) and we did get into a conversation. I kept it pleasant, but I did let her know that she needs to pull her fishing pole out of the sack and help because I can't do it all. And I decided to continue to sell my wares under my main. If there is an issue there I will deal with it diplomatically.
*** I do like the idea of having bankers who bank items different than their chosen profession.
This thread reminds me of a fellow in a guild I left some time ago... he was the greatest proponent of 'free trade' in the guild but never contributed anything himself. As a miner/skinner he sold all his produce on the AH and then asked people to craft gear for him (but he wouldn't provide mats or payment). He also had a habit of badgering higher level players into running all his characters through the various low/mid level instances.
He was without doubt the wealthiest player in the guild. After developing a number of characters, buying their mounts and generally kitting them out he then sold his account. Personally I considered him a parasite from day one and ignored the guy, but for all those who constantly helped him I wonder how they felt when the guy cashed in on eBay.
He was without doubt the wealthiest player in the guild. After developing a number of characters, buying their mounts and generally kitting them out he then sold his account. Personally I considered him a parasite from day one and ignored the guy, but for all those who constantly helped him I wonder how they felt when the guy cashed in on eBay.
Hello to the OP. yes, you are being scammed by your guild alchemist. I did herb/alch, and I had 300 herb long before 300 alch, and I worked pretty hard at alch too. The only way this person could NOT have 300 herb is if they ignored all herb picking while they were questing.
I advise NOT sending any more fish unless the person gives you back potions in return. Or gold. If they can't do that, then sell your fish on the auction house. That's what I'd do anyway.
If they can't see the error of their ways, then that's their problem.
I advise NOT sending any more fish unless the person gives you back potions in return. Or gold. If they can't do that, then sell your fish on the auction house. That's what I'd do anyway.
If they can't see the error of their ways, then that's their problem.
Three choices really:
1. Avoid: Simply say that what I was selling was my own share of what I gathered. a.k.a. I gave at the office.
2: Avoid: If she can cause real problems for you then make a secret alt just to avoid the problem.
3: Confront: Tell her to her face that I felt I was being taken advantage of and why.
But hey, what ever you think is the best politics in your group, go for it. Good Luck.
1. Avoid: Simply say that what I was selling was my own share of what I gathered. a.k.a. I gave at the office.
2: Avoid: If she can cause real problems for you then make a secret alt just to avoid the problem.
3: Confront: Tell her to her face that I felt I was being taken advantage of and why.
But hey, what ever you think is the best politics in your group, go for it. Good Luck.
4 posts
If you are getting a cut, or your guild is benifiting as a whole from this, like shes giving otu potions to u guys or something, then I'd say give her what she needs, but sell your extras at the AH
5 posts
atmy guild we have the o so important way that we only send stuff to the person who we would need in the future. (except me i send like 12 stacks of heavy leather when i feel like it to our blacksmith.. hes now complaining that he doenst have enough space in his bags to empty his mailbox in one go.
Thanks again all.
There is so much trade going on in my guild that at times it's hard to keep track of 'possible' nefarious goings-on. We pride ourselves in being as self sufficient as possible as we grow.
And her comment about being 'too lazy to pick up a fishing pole' herself, well that just ticked me off.
I'll continue to provide others with leather gear they need, recipes to various tradeskillers, offering my assistance with help, recruiting like minded people into the guild, offering drops up to others or for d/e, etc ....
And I've also created a mage alt that does herbalism and alchemy.
I've never been one to have altism, but I am having fun with the mage as well as my druid. (My druid is at 60)
I will keep my fish, and if any argument comes my way I will be dipolmatic in discussion and have our guild leader act as intermediary.
There is so much trade going on in my guild that at times it's hard to keep track of 'possible' nefarious goings-on. We pride ourselves in being as self sufficient as possible as we grow.
And her comment about being 'too lazy to pick up a fishing pole' herself, well that just ticked me off.
I'll continue to provide others with leather gear they need, recipes to various tradeskillers, offering my assistance with help, recruiting like minded people into the guild, offering drops up to others or for d/e, etc ....
And I've also created a mage alt that does herbalism and alchemy.
I've never been one to have altism, but I am having fun with the mage as well as my druid. (My druid is at 60)
I will keep my fish, and if any argument comes my way I will be dipolmatic in discussion and have our guild leader act as intermediary.
1 post
only part i found dodgy about her was that she complained you were selling them, the low herb could just be that there are enough herbs supplied now that it doesnt really matter (lots of gatherers and few tradesman i presume)
just tell her you'll give what you can spare, and if she needs a certain number to give you notice beforehand, she shouldnt just expect you to give over stuff when you got it unless asked beforehand.
if she does ask rest is up to you, you can ask for money or do out of kindness, personally if it was just for her stuff i'd ask for some money at reduced price, however if it was for use on a guild run i'd do that free. but thats my opinion and you have to decide what you want, but yeh mainly just tell her to put in an order or get only what you want to send.
just tell her you'll give what you can spare, and if she needs a certain number to give you notice beforehand, she shouldnt just expect you to give over stuff when you got it unless asked beforehand.
if she does ask rest is up to you, you can ask for money or do out of kindness, personally if it was just for her stuff i'd ask for some money at reduced price, however if it was for use on a guild run i'd do that free. but thats my opinion and you have to decide what you want, but yeh mainly just tell her to put in an order or get only what you want to send.
"Give a man a fish, feed him for a day. Teach him to fish, feed him for life."
have you asked her if she wants to go fishing with you?
have you asked her if she wants to go fishing with you?
If you're part of a small guild, it might be especially easy to simple /w the raid and/or guild leaders to see if they know if she's giving out those potions or not. Another alternative would be to search the AH for any potions made with those fish and see who's selling them (not foolproof though).
In my mind though, guildies should give otehr guildies whatever they need for the most part. Main healer is are guild was given 2 golden pearls (25+g on AH, one by me and one by someone else) for Truefaith Vestiments until he got better stuff, we've given Lord Alex's axe (75+g) to someone who could use it, a few free potions to guildies during ZG runs (easily 2-4g a person), etc. Guildmates should help guildmates.
In my mind though, guildies should give otehr guildies whatever they need for the most part. Main healer is are guild was given 2 golden pearls (25+g on AH, one by me and one by someone else) for Truefaith Vestiments until he got better stuff, we've given Lord Alex's axe (75+g) to someone who could use it, a few free potions to guildies during ZG runs (easily 2-4g a person), etc. Guildmates should help guildmates.
If you have a great guild you like, and eveyone is helping each other out, than just give all your fish to the guild. What do you need the money for?
If its for basic stuff like repairs, drink..than sell a few fish..no shame in that.
If you are saving for a mount or new armor that no-one can make for you, again there's no shame in selling your fish.
The next time she approaches you and say's "hey what are you doing selling that fish we can use?", kindly tell her sorry I'll give you any extras but I'm trying to save money for X or Y. If she is truly a good guildy than she will understand..if not than she's being greedy not you.
If its for basic stuff like repairs, drink..than sell a few fish..no shame in that.
If you are saving for a mount or new armor that no-one can make for you, again there's no shame in selling your fish.
The next time she approaches you and say's "hey what are you doing selling that fish we can use?", kindly tell her sorry I'll give you any extras but I'm trying to save money for X or Y. If she is truly a good guildy than she will understand..if not than she's being greedy not you.
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