MPK Issues to be Addressed

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:47 PM Rating: Decent

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Grammatical Confusion

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:32 PM Rating: Decent

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Also, I don't think SE means notorious monsters will disappear when trained. "This rule will not apply to notorious monsters" is most likely referring to "If a player is KOed or moves to a new area... [monster] will disappear". Therefore, while all other monsters will disappear and reappear in their proper spawn locations, NMs will take their sweet time walking back.

RE: Grammatical Confusion

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:42 PM Rating: Decent

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Or that it could possibly mean that you can't force an NM to pop by dragging the placeholders away, then they disappear and reappear in their spawn point.

i wonder if this will hrut pulling

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent

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i wonder if this will effect pulling mobs to camps because you do need to pull mobs to camp and some pulls are longer then others.

RE: i wonder if this will hrut pulling

# Dec 08 2005 at 6:56 PM Rating: Excellent

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7 posts

it is highly inprobable that this will effect bst or pulling in the least. As i read it the mon will only dissappear if you leave the area, die, or release it. so i say relax.

Does not include NM types

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:07 PM Rating: Excellent

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NM's/HNM's are not included with this update, regarding the disappearance if player (s) zone or are ko'd.
Now that I think of it, I've never seen a NM being trained to a zone of, say, somewhere like Garlaige Citadel...just a whole lot of funnel/citadel bats and the occassional fallen.
However, the author of the article couldn't have been more vague when stating a "set" time to claim on a mobs appearance.

RE: Does not include NM types

# Dec 08 2005 at 10:41 PM Rating: Decent

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I would expect a "set" time not to be released anyway. That would just make it easy enough to time it from it's spawn to it's point of vulnerability. I would expect it the be randomized but at the same time I would expect tiers of time for the infliction of punishment for violation of the "invulnerable" time. Such as, if you use the ability after only 1 second the penalty will be higher than if you waited 5. Also, this makes no mention of directly attacking the NM/mob in question; thus making sure the only means of claiming would be the fair and honest way of hitting it upside the head or amorphous body.

RMTK

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:57 PM Rating: Decent

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I wonder what would happen if SE started selling gil, then when they are contacted by the gilseller, they can ban the account of whomever they sent the money/traded...however it works.

As far as this patch goes, it sounds like a good idea. Some clarification to the BST, THF, and NM questions would be nice. I think its especially good for people like me who can't play all the time and who, if MPKed during the ONE chance I have to try to get something, would totally be discouraged.

bad idea

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:41 PM Rating: Decent

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this sounds like a horrible idea.... what if you kiting a HNM like alot of people do... and lets say you wipe to that HNM... will the HNM dissapear so that no one else can fight it, or even the old party not be able to give it another shot. saying you wipe to Vrtra does it dissapear? or Kirin for that matter. i dont like this idea, people should just learn ways to avod the MPK :\ or the GM's actually do something for once, i dunno.

RE: bad idea

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:02 PM Rating: Decent

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Reading comprehension is your friend:

Quote:

In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.

Kirin is poppable anyway, no one with half a brain would "camp" Kirin" and you'd have to be an idiot to try to either MPK with Kirin or be MPKed by Kirin. Don't be in the room when he pops. not that hard, really.

As for Vrtra, I haven't personally fought him (although I have died to him intentionally), but Tiamat and Jorumgand draw in... I'd imagine Vrtra would too, no? You really can't get a NM that draws in away from its spawn point without a lot of effort, if at all. And while MPK could happen at a dragon camp, it's usually MPK with nearby mobs (Arch Corse, Kindred, Spartoi...), not the HNM itself.

As for avoiding MPK, it's usually avoidable by leaving (warp, escape, etc) or sneak/invising, but if you're fighting an HNM in an open area (Tiamat, Nidhogg, Aspidochelone, etc...), then MPK by local pops is always possible and far more difficult to avoid.

I think this is a good change.

RE: bad idea

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:58 PM Rating: Decent

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395 posts

You forgot to read the part "This rule will not apply to notorious monsters." Read it fully next time.

Fixing something thats not broken.

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:41 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

I don't like it. You can't have good without bad. And SE is trying to make things "All good".

MPK is annoying, but you get over it, or stop playing.

RE: Fixing something thats not broken.

# Dec 08 2005 at 10:24 PM Rating: Decent

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10 posts

I'm guessing it's the "or stop playing" option that doesn't sit very well with SE. I'm pretty sure they tend to be motivated to encourage people to continue playing their game.

Will "Hide" trick still work?

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:24 PM Rating: Decent

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I've used the "Hide" trick to kill gilsellers in Castle Oztroja so i could claim some NM. I wonder if this trick will still work or not. Zoning, death, and bind are mentioned, but nothing about "Hide". Other than that SE has done well with the MPK issue, which is great for trains in EXP areas. Now all they need to do is get rid of the gilselling bastards (I wish.)

This is F*cking sh*t!

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:55 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

MPK shouldnt be fought against by SE, the god damn gilsellers should.
Ban MPK and your banning the only way we have to stop them getting the HNM.
My ls has been MPKing RMT for a long time and we get loads of claims cos of it, its cos of people like us that rmt are starting to lay back off some mobs, stop us fighting and we mightaswell be waving a white flag and giving them what they want.

Oh and to those who are afraid of getting banned cos of MPK back ive done it well over 100 times and only been to GM Jail once, and that was for a different reason =P.

Stop moaning and fight back before SE hands them the gil on a silver platter is all i wana say.

RE: This is F*cking sh*t!

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:31 PM Rating: Decent

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you sound like a gil seller. (>.<)

Quote:

MPK shouldnt be fought against by SE

Quote:

Oh and to those who are afraid of getting banned cos of MPK back ive done it well over 100 times and only been to GM Jail once

yep definately a gil seller.(^.^)

Just a thought

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:51 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

The problem is with trying to "boot" all the gil sellers is first of all knowing who they are (From a GMs view). Second, Having some REAL Evidence other then "They are selling NM drops and have MPKed us". If all a person does is NM camp all the time, sell his drops, Doesnt talk, but doesnt sell gil... Is he a Gil seller? I'd think most would assume yes.

effect on bst

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:19 PM Rating: Good

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217 posts

some bst think this means the mob will dissapear after you use the JA "leave". doesn't sound like it to me but it would be nice for clarification.

However... it also effects bst (in a less drastic way) even if they don't dissapear after Leave. Before level 35 and the Leave JA a bst might use zoning to heal a pet (especially if there are very few even match pets around). I think it would be supperior in this regard to have the pet walk back to it's spawning area like normal but not agro until it reaches it's spawning ground. I don't know if there are logistical problems with programming it that way but I think that would be supperior to what they're proposing.

Either way I do think the change is an improvement, if it doesn't effect the JA "Leave".

link to Bst thread discusion

link to main forum sticky about this posted by SE rep

Edited, Thu Dec 8 14:38:58 2005

RE: effect on bst

# Dec 08 2005 at 9:20 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

My thoughts exactly...from level 14-20 I used this tactic of "zone then let your pet heal before recharming"...now...if I have to find the pet all over again, leveling BST is going to get really obnoxious.

Bliss

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:16 PM Rating: Good

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This is amazing... Not only will it stop MPK, but it will remove the "indirect" interference that gil sellers and dirty NA HNM shells are using these days.

Lag Overload Steals:

This is common in areas where there are popular NMs, but no powerful monsters to MPK with. Gil sellers will bring 30-50 mobs right ontop of the rival party that is fighting the NM.

They won't agro, but it will cause a VRAM overload and random onscreen things will start to vanish. Makes it impossible for WHM outside the alliance to heal, and the 2000+ receive lag makes it so a PLD can be down to 10% life before the rest of the party even knew he was hit. It doesnt sound that bad, but it is surprisingly effective, and extremely frustrating.

Zone Control:

When the pop window is approaching on a hot NM, some players will arrive early and pull a massive train of agro mobs to the zone, and keep them there. The goal is to delay or keep out any possible competition from entering the zone with the NM.

When you enter you are under attack instantly and there is no time for sneak. This is common when ammemet is up, or even when Fafnir is due. A herd of crabs (or worse) will be kept at the tunnel entrance, or boyoda tree zone, whatever. Just to slow down the competition.

Since these are popular mid-game leveling spots, there are a lot of innocent bystanders nailed by this. It's not an MPK, and looks like innocent "zoned to escape from agro mobs" activity to a GM. Again more of a hassle then a real threat, but it is a very frustrating one.

Real MPK:

I won't even get into the daily cassie and serket MPKs. Gil sellers seem to be far more aggressive and MPK prone since their usual farming NM had their drops made into rare/ex items. To hunt any NM on my server, you basically need to bring an additional "Counter-MPK" party that can deal with the links.

People went as far as to call a GM an hour before each HNM window opened, and asked them to watch the fight "in case someone did something bad". This was a huge manpower burden for SE.

"Noble" MPKs

As someone said, we can no longer MPK gil sellers or botters. I have never seen the need to go out of my way to MPK anyone for "justice". This was a popular hobby back in the old days, when fish botting was rampant. SE fixed that problem nicely over time.

I am content to let SE work things out over time rather then go out of my way to MPK out of revenge.

This update will free up sooo much GM time. They have already started to crack down on 3rd party mobility or auto-claim utilities. Several infamous botters on my server had their accounts wiped when they screwed around at Fafnir camp, and I hope more are on their way.

RE: Bliss

# Dec 08 2005 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good

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Ok, I shouldn't have said NA HNM LS. On my server I have never seen or heard of a Euror LS do anything like this, nor a JP LS.

I am a member or a NA HNM LS. We arn't dirty. There is only one particularly dirty "end game" NA LS on my server that is involved in botting and keeping an army of mobs at a zone line.

But you are right. I should have said Gilseller or a dirty HNM LS. I come from a fairly laid back server, and the only abusive players (excluding gilsellers) were NA players. The JP population have never caused my LS trouble, and we have never caused any of them any trouble.

But I am sure on some servers there are plenty of dirty JP. All the bot programs and third party tools originated from japan, typically, so that says a lot.

RE: Bliss

# Dec 08 2005 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent

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7 posts

There is an equal amount of "Dirty" players and LS's in every server from every country so don't single out one country as the problem, just shows ignorance on your part. Its all a matter of respecting other players, which some people don't seem to want to do. Remember its a game try to have fun and enjoy yourself but treat others as you would in real life.

RE: Bliss

# Dec 08 2005 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

gil sellers and dirty NA HNM shells are using these days.

Why don't you just say "dirty HNM shells" since there are a equal number of JA and EU HNM shells that do this too. It's not just NA.

MPK'd on Sekret by gillsellers

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:06 PM Rating: Decent

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I think this is a wonderful idea. I've been XPing in garlaige citadel basement for a week now, and every night a full alliance of gillsellers shows up and MPK's the entire basement to get the claim on Sekret. I'm very hopeful that this update will stop that, and I hope it doesn't effect BST in a bad way. If BST should get the "bad end of the stick" i'm confident that SE will try to fix it.

Come on

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent

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I think you guys are missing te big point, yes SE didn;t fix everything... but now we know they are TRYING and when SE TRIES, we know SOMETHING is going to happrn.

I am just glad they're attempting to fix some problems.... but they did forgot to add shadowind Mpk into it ><

RE: Come on

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:14 PM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

but they did forgot to add shadowind Mpk into it ><

I would think that bind and shadowbind fall in the same category.

RE: Come on

# Dec 09 2005 at 11:33 AM Rating: Decent

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Quote:

Monsters that have been rendered immobile with the "Bind" spell will not attack

What was that about shadowbind?

Woot

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:04 PM Rating: Default

6 posts

Well this is a nice start, even though I'm a RDM and able to handle MPK attempts, it'll be good to know it wont be doable after this update with regards to normal mobs that just aggro that are farther away from my current position....

Now all is left to do with regards to MPK is fixing the claiming system so a KS isn't possible at all until every single member in party/alliance is dead.

RE: Woot

# Dec 08 2005 at 10:20 PM Rating: Decent

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That would be the /blockaid thing their adding, with this little thing u wont have to worry much bout KS, cus no one outside the pt/alliance can heal u, so if everyone has it on, the mob wont agro the other ppl

MPK, ok, what about KS?

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:03 PM Rating: Default

6 posts

Well this is a nice start, even though I'm a RDM and able to handle MPK attempts, it'll be good to know it wont be doable after this update with regards to normal mobs that just aggro that are farther away from my current position....

Now all is left to do with regards to MPK is fixing the claiming system so a KS isn't possible at all until every single member in party/alliance is dead.

MPK, ok, what about KS?

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default

6 posts

Well this is a nice start, even though I'm a RDM and able to handle MPK attempts, it'll be good to know it wont be doable after this update with regards to normal mobs that just aggro that are farther away from my current position....

Now all is left to do with regards to MPK is fixing the claiming system so a KS isn't possible at all until every single member in party/alliance is dead.

MPK, ok, what about KS?

# Dec 08 2005 at 2:01 PM Rating: Default

6 posts

Well this is a nice start, even though I'm a RDM and able to handle MPK attempts, it'll be good to know it wont be doable after this update with regards to normal mobs that just aggro that are farther away from my current position....

Now all is left to do with regards to MPK is fixing the claiming system so a KS isn't possible at all until every single member in party/alliance is dead.

RE: MPK, ok, what about KS?

# Dec 08 2005 at 11:24 PM Rating: Decent

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85 posts

Quote:

This measure refers to the radius that the monster walks about when not engaged in battle. After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location. In addition, the monster that reappears will be the exact same monster that disappeared, and not another monster of the same type. This rule will not apply to notorious monsters.

Thank you for this, all too often wandering creatures walking back to their spawn point is what creates the most problems as they can encounter players who were not in its normal pathway. Having them pop back to their staring point will be safer and less time-consuming than the long stroll home creatures currantly perform.

NM claiming

# Dec 08 2005 at 1:51 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

Quote:

This is great to get rid of the BOT(s). A BOT usully spam provoke or whatever ability/spell until they get claim. Now with this fix, the BOT will try to spam provoke, but the first one that lands will probably be before the set timer, thus the ability wont work (this was what was already implemented). Now to top it off, the BOT will be penalize because he tried to provoke too soon, he wont be able to use provoke for a set amount of time.

This fix gives way better chance at claiming mobs from ppl using BOTs.

this is soooo far from the truth, the more delay you add the better it is for bots. because they can calculate the exact time when they can voke it. no they do not just spam. they watch the memory location of the monster and wait for its status to change. this makes it so bots can camp monsters that pop in wider areas now.

RE: NM claiming

# Dec 08 2005 at 4:12 PM Rating: Decent

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395 posts

Dude, for a BOT to do what you are saying, they need to read the packets comming from the server. Sure, I seen a video where the guy warped to the spawn location, but these kind of BOTs ain't free. It would take ALOT of time to crack down how the packets are structured. Unless you have connections with a SE software developer, it would take alot of time to crack it down. And SE will change it every now and then so these BOTs will stop working, until somebody finds the new packet stucture.

Most BOTs aren't that smart.

About Beast Masters

# Dec 08 2005 at 1:39 PM Rating: Decent

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Those that are concerned about this change's affect on Beast Masters, it looks to me like monsters will only teleport back to their area if the player actually ZONES.

Quote:

-If a player is KO'd or moves to a new area while fighting a monster at a location in which the monster does not usually inhabit, the monster will not begin attacking others in the surrounding area. Instead, it will simply disappear.

It sounds like a monster will never teleport back to its area unless a player either dies or zones to a new area. Beast Masters will probably be unaffected by this from what I can see as long as they don't zone then come back to get their pet.

Quote:

After being drawn out of that radius during battle and released, the monster will disappear, and then reappear after a short time in its proper location.

If this was referring to the BST ability Release, they probably would have said "with the Beast Master Ability 'Release'" as they usually do when talking about abilities. Since I don't think they are talking about that specific ability, and since other jobs have no way of 'releasing' monsters, I think it is simply another way of saying losing-aggro-after-zoning.

In other words, although I wish this made the monsters simply walk back because it seems a little unrealistic to me... the only time this will happen is when someone zones or dies. When someone actually zones monsters or dies, they are most likely trying to just run away or MPK and I can hardly think of another reason to do so. So this should be a good change overall ^^

lets see

# Dec 08 2005 at 1:34 PM Rating: Decent

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it could put the end of the infamous trains in garliage and crawlers nest, especially those involving stronger mobs. i do not like it when i zone in those areas to be greeted by chamber beetles, vault weapons, and knight crawlers.

MHO about GM

# Dec 08 2005 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent

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151 posts

GM suck *** in this game.

i would love a job with a drop down list of answers, to tell a client.

i have recieved the same answer many of times for different, circumstances so i believe that the job of a GM IS A JOKE !!!

RE: MHO about GM

# Dec 08 2005 at 5:38 PM Rating: Good

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100 posts

How many jobs have you had? I worked at a Subway and while I might have varied what I said SOME, generally I gave the same greeting, said the same kind of thank you, and made the same kind of suggestive sale offers to every customer - and just about every employee did it in a similar way. When there was a problem, I handled them in similar fashions and usually made the same offers [offer a free drink - it works wonders] to calm them down. A GM deals with hundreds of calls a day. Yes, they're going to use the same recycled responses most of the time. It's not as uncommon as you think - just about any retail or food service place you go to is going to be giving you the same kind of treatment. Get used to it, they're anything but lazy.

-Calea

problems

# Dec 08 2005 at 1:14 PM Rating: Decent

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1 post

They should just make spawn timer to 2-3 mins this will solve most of the problems.

Edited, Thu Dec 8 13:34:15 2005