John Smedley's message on the future of MMO's and EQ2

# Feb 14 2005 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent

Darknyss

Scholar

551 posts

All I see are so many people upset with the way the game is headed and the problem with the content, or the problem with the game's evolution...

Does nobody here realize that the original game is still there? Nobody took away the ability to play the game the way it once was... nobody is forcing you to do anything you don't want!

If you don't like a new expansions, then stay in the older zones that you (and everyone else that thinks like you) would rather play in. You don't HAVE to advance at the same pace as a hardcore full-time raider... that's simply an OPTION!

If you don't want to raid, don't raid, if you don't want to group... don't group... but why even be interested in an MASS MULTIPLAYER game if you don't want to do stuff with other people...

And enough with the "I can't get a group as <insert class here> because we're so gimp..." and "Only people with no life and lots of money can play"...

Honestly, if any of that were true, we'd have nobody playing EQ. Play the game!

____________________________

Pain Lord Darknyss Grimscale
92 Iksar Crusader of the Greenmist

RE: honestly

# Feb 15 2005 at 1:44 PM Rating: Good

Anonymous

Anonymous

the FATAL flaw in your argument, saying for people to hunt in old world zones, yadda yadda....

Can't hunt in places where you are the only one there. BOTTOM LINE>> game is still a forced group game. No problem with that. It works for the most part, on paper. It FAILS CONSISTANTLY though, in reality, when there are not people available in your level range to hunt with in those places.

signed,
one saddened long time player

RE: honestly

# Feb 15 2005 at 1:44 PM Rating: Default

Anonymous

Anonymous

the FATAL flaw in your argument, saying for people to hunt in old world zones, yadda yadda....

Can't hunt in places where you are the only one there. BOTTOM LINE>> game is still a forced group game. No problem with that. It works for the most part, on paper. It FAILS CONSISTANTLY though, in reality, when there are not people available in your level range to hunt with in those places.

signed,
one saddened long time player

RE: honestly

# Feb 14 2005 at 2:36 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1593361220308

Scholar

70 posts

Ah, but I like to LDoN. Putting together a group with the strength to finish one now is an all-night process.

Mergers

# Feb 14 2005 at 12:09 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1593361220308

Scholar

70 posts

I wouldn't mind mergers, but on the other hand...

My guild is alive and growing.

Nuff sed.

--
Togolas Ravenwing, ranger (like Legalos but lower)
Guild Steward of Society of Honor
Saryrn Server

small hope for the future

# Feb 14 2005 at 9:55 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591789273213

Scholar

248 posts

I played this game faithfully just after it hit the shelves on and off until november of last year.
While I realize that this will largely be dismissed as a rant, it really isnt. I just wanted to present my opinions and add to what I have just read. I see this thread is full of good ideas and interesting concepts, and wanted to add my own.
That said...

The major reason, over anything else, that I quit EQ and Sony games altogether,is that it just isnt fun anymore. I had had a blast for years making my slow, but vastly entertained way to 50 without ever really realizing that I was doing it. But after SoL it all went to hell. It's been a slow decline since then, and bottomed out for me at OoW.
I made a character in january of 2003 as an experiment. I wanted to play him as I had my first toon, a Shaman back when EQ began. I couldnt.
There was simply no way to play and progress at a satisfying level anymore if you dont raid. As far as quests, the vast majority were broken, with no intention of ever being fixed. On several occasions, when I /petitoned, or /bugged, I was told to do a different quest. I have voiced this opinion before and been shouted down by frothing raidbunnies that dont particularly care for any other part of the game.
I have read the above opinion that the older zones should be revamped. I've been saying that for years, watching poorly conceived expansions being cranked out and consisntently ruining what was left of the game. The major problem with all of these expansions is actually the same one that put the last nail in the coffin of EQ2 for me as well. Repetition. All of these expansions are the same thing over and over again. The next big monster that requires a quantity of people to kill that is utterly unreasonable and is the only source of dropped gear required for any raidguild to accept you. Ridiculous.
This could all be fixed rather simply, but at the expense of all the elitists and Yantis fans out there. Repairing the disasterous changes made to the power economy since SoL would be a start, and making the game casual player friendly would be another. I soloed my first toons from 0-50. That is no longer really feasable after the limitless nerfs and crippling alterations made toeach class specifically to prevent the solo player from excelling.
I have also heard the argument that this is a GROUP game, and being required to group is not so much to ask.
Nonsense.
This, more than anything else, I think, is what sealed the fate of EQ AND EQ2.
EQ2 was billed as being a casual player friendly game. They lied.
I experimented with this as well. And at 30, had all I could stand of EQ2. Recently, the xp was supposedly upped for the solo player. I heard this and immediately logged on, thinking "Well, if the fixed that, it would be fun again! Not and endless, dreary, repetitive grind!" I was wrong. The alteration was insignificant. Though they did add a great deal to what each mob was worth, they started from such a small base that any changes made were infitismal.
This is the policy that keeps biting SOE in the hind end. They keep paying lip service to the fans and pretending to listen to them, but make changes so drastically off the mark, that it just creates even MORE problems. The figures are accurate however. Even on my own server, I watched the population drop off to about a quarter of what we started with when people realized they had been had again.
I finally gave up after that.
I have been paying closer attnetion to what Mr. Smedely puts out now that he has begun to do so. And the fact that he makes these gestures impresses me enough to take an interest again.
If he does manage to fix the nearly endless grocery list of catastrophic failures, or at least balance things out enough to make the game playable to REAL people as opposed to the kids that play 24/7, then i will certainly give it another shot. Until then, I can only keep my snall hope that I will see this game brought back to what made it fun to begin with.

Problems (rant, long)

# Feb 14 2005 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good

vashra

Scholar

316 posts

When EQ launched, it was relatively fun. Everyone knew what zones to start in, everyone came to know the zones to go to from there, and there were maybe 6 mobs in the game that required a raid force. A raid consisting of 3 good groups rapidly became not that uncommon.

The single most important thing was that getting all of your spells was not well neigh impossible and you didn't need to be twinked to high Heaven to be a good melee character either.

ALL of the steps in tradeskilling produced stuff that was worth *something* to players, and a good bit of it could be sold to *vendors* at a small profit.

No one really felt they ***Neeeded*** stat heavy stuff to play the game, so people didn't mind being pleasantly surprised by the occasional drop of stat-based armor. Heck people would kill loads of pixies just to get *leather* armor as a noobie quest.

Right from the start, vendor prices were a problem. You did need *some* kind of armor (better than the cloth dropped by orcs) to play, but the plate stuff vendors sold were at rediculous plat prices you'd not see till lvl 30 or more. (This was to enocourage players to buy said items from tradeskillers but it just didn't work out right).

Most of the quests were short and they worked. The boats sucked.

----

Then Velious launched. Suddenly you had one or two zones that required keys. People didn't like keys...but they were something for a group or a guild to spend *** ONE *** day getting. Cougars were introduced to the world as (I think) the first truly high-xp/trash-loot mob designed to level a character quickly.

Tradeskilling went up and down. It went up because people were practicing like mad to get skilled up for the flowing thought shawl quest. It went down because enough people now knew where "good stuff" dropped that it was harder to sell things like a suit of banded armor.

All in all though, the game was not yet *too* unbalanced.

----

But things went downhill from there.

Kunark launched. First there were the days and days of problems and crashes. Epic quests came out and suddenly you needed 30 people to do what a group could do in the past. People were finding some spells hard to get, yet you *needed* the spells for your level to play. Tradeskilling went way down as it became clear that you *needed* +stat items to play effectively and most player-made items (cultural armor aside) didn't have stats. Everyone packed like sardines into OT and LOIO because that was the highest place to go for high xp/trash-loot mobs. Noobs were finding it hard to get a group if they couldn't prove they were twinked. The boats never really worked right again after the launch of Kunark (not that even the first boat had been all that great in the first place.)

----

Enter Luclin - more crashes, more problems and broken quests galore. The game began to cater to the impatient and now the boats (which were admitedly too slow) were pretty much replaced by the nexus and mass-sales of ports from wizzies and druids. Raiding now meant having an uber guild who could all be on for 6+ hours and who all had keys to wherever--and getting those keys was an equal pain in the but (shard camping anyone?). People were willing to shell out 20,000 pp for high end spells like KEI. *Everyone* was short of at least one spell they rather needed to play the game and *no one* over level 8 who had any other character was wearing anything that didn't have stats. OT and parts of LOIO were abandoned for Paladul where the loot sucked even worse than before.

---
After Luclin, it just gets nuts. LOY, LDON, and PoP were released so closely together that I lose track of what came first. Doesn't matter. The "new" structure of EQ was born. Crack your way through levels 1-25 via tutorials and "fast xp" zones, come out of that "training" with slightly more skills than an EBAY noob, and then go off into the world to inflict your sorry playing skills on the old schoolers. ICK.

LDoN was a sad attempt by Sony to make the game "fun" for people lvl 20-55 ... and it failed badly because of the logistical problems in getting groups. Now *everyone* I know cranks their way through the first 4-7 levels in the tutorial, gets pl'd to 13, goes to paladul then DSP and only THEN feels like they can "start playing the game."

---

Solutions?

1) People don't have 6 hours to play - Raid mobs are nifty but make sure the 30 people fighting it can take it down in 3 hours or less (all prep time included).

2) Vendors should sell *useful* items (not including drops sold to vendors).

3) No one should EVER have to get a spell via mob-drop. The whole point behind guild houses is that you go there to train -- and so that concept should follow you to the retirement of your character. Spells should cost no more than the average loot dropped off ONE mob killed at the level just before the spell.

4) Melee classes should gain weapons (skill based combat) about like casters gain spells.

5) No *necessary* weapon, spell, or armor should require more than one group and one fight to gain. Rare drops are Ok to a point...mobs that appear randomly on 7 day timers are not.

6) Aaaaaal tradeskilling supplies should drop like rain. Successful combines should be the thing that makes an "uber tradeskill" item rare, not getting the stuff to practice making it.

7) *Every* zone should have something UNIQUE and VALUABLE in it that makes people of whatever level applies want to go there at least occasionally. There are no "empty" levels in traditional video games but if the Gorge of King Xorbb still has a really good purpose I'll eat my monitor.

8) Level restrictions I can grasp, but keys suck and flags blow goats. I **paid** for PoP .. I want access to every last piece of it. You want planar progression? Make each plane just a wee bit harder than the last and let us progress.

9) Instanced zones are a wonderful idea. LDONs needs much work though.

10) We don't NEED an "illusion of bigness" ... it's a *game*. Either put content in the zone that slows our travels or make the zones smaller so we don't need so many J-boots, sow potions, and such rot.

I could think of more but I am sleepy.

____________________________

*Insert snazzy catchphrase here*

#REDACTED, Posted: Feb 14 2005 at 2:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Rated you down because:

#REDACTED, Posted: Feb 14 2005 at 2:34 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) just a small problem, kunark came before velious

ok now..

# Feb 14 2005 at 8:41 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1592263535889

2 posts

if the question is:"What is the problem with EQ?"

I believe that every expansion screws the last expansion instead of enhancing it. I am on Rodcet Nife and while we have certainly lost many to wow and eq2, I really don't think we NEED a merger.

I go through the zones my chars grew up in and usually I am the only one in the zone. I loved lvling in most of these old zones. I would like to see an expansion that focused on populating old zones instead of adding new ones. I enjoy OOW, but with the new runes and uber loot that only drop there, that is the only place anyone is atm.

When I play a lower lvl char (63 - not really low lvl) and can't get his spells. No groups in the planes to be had. As such, less and less of these spells in the bazaar. It sucks.

So, I think runes and parchments should drop all over norrath/luclin.
Bring the xp and drops in older content up to par with the new expansions.

As for 0-50 chars, I could do a / all 1 50 and maybe 10 would come up. Maybe have a 0-46 server and at 47 you automatically go to the 47-70 server. This would cut down on PLing and maybe add to the fun of having lower lvl chars again.

Lastly, do something with the task system. It was a great idea. It should be something time consuming that is at least possible for a single person. I tried a few and ended up needed an HS key to do part of it and even a group for some of them. GOOD IDEA - it was a dudd - fix it

RE: ok now..

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:50 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1593363522008

2 posts

Agree here too. At least use some emtpy server space to try out the idea : )

RE: ok now..

# Feb 14 2005 at 9:18 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592255555884

116 posts

Quote:

Maybe have a 0-46 server and at 47 you automatically go to the 47-70 server. This would cut down on PLing and maybe add to the fun of having lower lvl chars again.

Agree 111%

#REDACTED, Posted: Feb 14 2005 at 11:13 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I like that idea alot. :)

mergers

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:31 AM Rating: Default

114 posts

I think there are two reasons they aren't doing more mergers yet.

1) They are hoping many players will come back after DoN is released.

2) They are trying to force people to pay for transfers before offering it for free.

Btw, one of the things I absolutely loved about WoW was the Santa in Ironforge (during Christmas time), where you could buy snowballs to throw at people. Little things like this, I greatly appreciate. EQ never does anything like this. They used to have events in EK, WC, and DL, but I haven't seen them in years. Very few things are offered without having to complain for them, its sad really.

Edited, Mon Feb 14 01:38:15 2005

RE: mergers

# Feb 14 2005 at 10:43 AM Rating: Decent

Nottall

172 posts

You have not seen the events in years, because 95% of the events done by GMs are > lvl 45.

____________________________

Insta Gator Monk of Utopian
Rumblepants Loudbottom Shaman of Utopian
Nottall Attall Cleric of Utopian <retired>

clarify.

# Feb 14 2005 at 12:53 AM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1593364144713

5 posts

I started playing again in August 2004.

Bazaar often had nearly 500 traders.
Currenlty we are sitting around 250 to 300.

Just to give you an example of the numbers who no longer play.

POK, was usually 40+. Now, I have seen as few as 13, with 4 of those AFK. Without a server merge.
I now have to log in a peak times to get KEI/virtue/conv, and I also noticed that MGB's at the main bank are almost nonexistant.

Seems to me a server merge won't hurt.

Addressing the news.
"Where are we going? What are we going to be doing to revolutionize this business? Well let me throw out just a few of the things we're thinking about here at SOE.
What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children... What if your characters could have children and pass on the family name.....
What if players could build fantastic dungeons that become part of the worlds we create with tools we give them? How would that work exactly?
Can MMORPGs have skill-based combat?
What if?"

What this really tells me, is that the developers aren't thinking. Who the F**k wants to have kids? Get real. Rather than making an interesting storyline, revamping some quests so they are do-able solo, including maybe mini-epic type quests or even class balancing they are trying to get ahead of the game. Yes, your own virtual kids.

Wow will continue to bury EQ.
Sad really

Kiltaros.

RE: clarify.

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:28 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1623630129087

Scholar

404 posts

Can you say EQ SIMS?

my thoughts

# Feb 13 2005 at 7:43 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591800962643

2 posts

You lose one set of potential players if the game is too hard. You lose another set of potential players if it is too easy and feels like a kids game.

It also makes sense that if you massively increase the number of zones then the population gets thinned out. Personally I like the peace and quiet but for more sociable types there need to be a few server merges - don't overdo it all at once though in case you go too far the other way.

RE: my thoughts

# Feb 14 2005 at 10:44 AM Rating: Decent

Nottall

172 posts

Quote:

You lose another set of potential players if it is too easy and feels like a kids game.

This is exactly why I stopped playing EQ2

Edited, Mon Feb 14 10:44:35 2005

____________________________

Insta Gator Monk of Utopian
Rumblepants Loudbottom Shaman of Utopian
Nottall Attall Cleric of Utopian <retired>

RE: my thoughts

# Feb 16 2005 at 4:14 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1592339410384

53 posts

same here, and thats also the same reason why I wont bother with WoW.

Edited, Wed Feb 16 16:17:20 2005

or this

# Feb 13 2005 at 6:31 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592760345563

57 posts

if soe doesnt want to merge servers - then could have a month of free server moves

say march --
u put in for a server move
and within 2months get moved as alot could ask

they could also post / suggest which servers to move 2

Guild merge

# Feb 13 2005 at 4:16 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1611533766599

41 posts

I just want to point something out here. Everyone has been complaining for a long time since EQ2 and WoW that we need some server merges. I totally agree.
PvP merged because of people complaining to SoE, not on boards like this. While not all of them are happy with the new PvP rules...the fact still remains that complaining to SoE about it got something done. As someone who has issues with getting in groups a good bit because of my server being underpopulated (though it has gotten better in the last month or two), I encourage everyone to not go to boards that most of SoE probably doesn't look at...but go to the EQlive boards and complain there, and use the in-game methods. Being pro-active will make things happen folks. Help yourselves and everyone else by complaing directly to SoE. It may not happen two weeks from now, but they WILL get the idea and merge servers as soon as people start making more complaints.

RE: Guild merge

# Feb 14 2005 at 2:10 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591814238349

55 posts

just a thought, but all those people that asked for a pvp server merge suck....not many of us on sullon wanted a merge, because we knew that we didn't have the population to continue having our rules. so far, after the merge, im happy with the increased number of people, but seeing how the majority are 65+, it is difficult finding people my level to fight -- pretty gay imo to be on a pvp server unable to pvp. sullon was great, once you hit 6, youre up for grabs

On Merges and Balance

# Feb 13 2005 at 1:33 PM Rating: Good

Aaikan

Sage

90 posts

I'm going to jump on the bandwagon as well, and urge a merging of the servers. As a small guild, it's difficult if not impossible to take on most of the significant challenges that the new expansions have been delivering. Acquiring new membership hasn't been easy with the player's wishing for the level of content that we can't yet provide, yet we cannot provide it without additional membership. It's a true catch-22.

Merging servers would allow for an influx of additional people, at all levels, that would help bolster both the small guilds and the larger raiding guilds.

As for balance, don't get me started. I've played a Paladin almost since my server opened. I've always wondered if there is anyone worthwhile on the development team that also plays one with any regularity. But I won't sidetrack this thread any further.

Edited, Sun Feb 13 13:38:18 2005

____________________________

- Aaikan (Luclin)

EQ Dying?

# Feb 13 2005 at 1:12 PM Rating: Decent

Anonymous

Anonymous

Bleh everyone says EQ dying, so and so...its all WoW and EQ2 fault. Yes, we can contribute some changes because of EQ2 and WOW.

The lack of population can be attributed to current events, look we have a "not so" great economy and a war going on (which many of my friends from rl and EQ are involved in, support our troops!)

Above posts state elitists attitudes in EQ1, thats very true...EQ1 is no longer newb friendly (twinks/pl'ers), you must know how to play. Another attribute to some loss of players

If you have seen WoW, it sucks (graphics, etc.) lol....EQ2 is just plain repetitive (gameplay gets boring, xp share debt and lack of pvp) by the time you reach 20+.

We need not merging servers but advertising (need to see EQ commercials on TV) and tweaking the right way.

I believe it was a major mistake by revamping Mistmoore and Splitpaw for 65+ groups, fueling the elitists attitude....new DoN expansion for 50+ players? GoD, OOW, and now DoN all for 50+?

Need to target the right group, our newbs.

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 15 2005 at 1:32 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591791965043

11 posts

well, this part just doesnt make sense....at first you say its not noob friendly, then you say advertise on TV to get more noobs.......you could work for soe with that type of logic....

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591787269702

87 posts

WoW sucks? Really? I wonder why it has become the #1 MMO then? Must be a lot of ppl who really enjoy this piece of doo-doo, myself included. If you have been to the top of Honor's Stand in the evening, or anywhere with trees when the sun is shining and you don't think the graphics and light-sourcing are spectacular, then I think you need a new video card.

I have logged in to EQ exactly twice since I started playing WoW and don't miss it in the slightest. The quest system is great (sharing quests is brilliant), and the rewards are decent, not to mention significant XP in line with the difficulty to complete. My friend has EQ2 and I sat with him a while and was swayed not at all by what I saw. As was said previously, WoW will continue to bury EQ and EQ2 because it is ridiculously easy to learn and actually allows you to progress solo or in groups, depending on what quests you choose or your ability to acquire a group.

So long Sony!

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 15 2005 at 3:13 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592246850908

Scholar

35 posts

Quote:

WoW will continue to bury EQ and EQ2 because it is ridiculously easy to learn and...

No, WoW will bury EQ because it's made by a quality company like Blizzard, while EQ hires morons whose best idea is to give virtual-pregnancy.

Quote:

What if you could have families in MMO's? Virtual Children... What if your characters could have children and pass on the family name

I'd say the makers of the Sims should sue the pants off you.

Quote:

What if players could build fantastic dungeons that become part of the worlds we create with tools we give them?

If we could build our own games, we wouldn't have paid for the trash made by SoE.

How about some "what if" of my own?...

"What if SoE got off their high-horse and actually listened to good ideas from customers?"

"What if SoE hired programmers that were over 16 years old, wrote competent code, and could spell?"

"What if John Smedley told his company what 'Testing-Prior-To-Release' meant?"

"What if SoE didn't cut its own throat by releasing a product that competed with ITSELF?" (New Coke = Brilliant comparison)

"What if helpful GMs really existed?"

Goodbye SoE... and good riddance. You are the most mis-managed excuse for a software company that I have ever had the misfortune of experiencing.

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 15 2005 at 1:23 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591787269702

87 posts

Wow Woody, you are one bitter dude. But you are right, Blizzard has made quality games that run well on the lowest hardware specs from day one. I still play Starcraft for crying out loud!

And yes PoK and the Nexus/Bazaar made life much easier for everybody, not to mention the tradskill interface, 'Find', and a reliable compass. But every time they expand there are hundreds of new drops, tradeskill combines, forages (1-15lb Cragbeast meat??!!), new everything and it's too friggin much already! If it weren't for this site and others, EQ would have not enjoyed the success it has because in that case only hardcore Chaos Theorists would ENJOY figuring it all out.

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 14 2005 at 9:40 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592260329489

24 posts

***** the n00bs, and seriously.....if you have trouble with how easy EQ is now....quit. EQ today as opposed to 5 yrs ago is a joke, any ****** can reach into 60's easily. And you think EQ was made harder?

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 14 2005 at 10:15 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592763444459

56 posts

This is true. I remember when EQ first came out. If you wanted to go somewhere you had to run there, take a boat, or pay 100p+ for a port/tl... Those were the good ol' days when most people where raiding Oasis and Blackburrow. Newbs got it good nowadays.

RE: EQ Dying?

# Feb 15 2005 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591791965043

11 posts

funny, i think our grandparents say the same things about us.......cmon people most of ya dont drive cars that are 5 years old......and technology changes faster in computers than the auto industry by a long shot.....most people who quit...yes moved to something else....but that is because after 5 years "most" people would get bored with any product they used as much as eq was played.
How many have the same cell phone?....the same computer?....the same car....the same clothes....the same significant other for God's sake......ya get bored, ya move on......SOE needs to figure a way to make it fun......we as online gamers need to find something fun to play vs remebering the "good ole days" when we walked to school up hill in the snow both ways without shoes.......

#REDACTED, Posted: Feb 13 2005 at 12:42 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I solo all the time on the original everquest. I recently joined a guild that has alot of soloers/raiders. We raid and solo. Most of our guild is not in gear better than ornate from pop zones. We have the couple players with the high end gear from former guilds. One thing I noticed about alot of solo players in EQ1 lately, two accounts. Druids make great solo support/healers. My friend left EQ1 for EQ2 since she never liked raids and her son finds EQ2 much easier. She has two accounts on EQ2 now so she plays with her kids. I have two accounts on EQ1 and solo/raid alot. I like raids my friend didnt like raids. We both have two accounts. Boxing is the common word for playing two accounts unless your kid is playing the other one.

EQ vs EQ2, EQ's future

# Feb 13 2005 at 12:10 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592270750685

1 post

I also played EQ2, started in the beta, and played until end of 2004.
I was very disapointed by this game, I was expecting much out of it, but it really turned out to be more of a toy than a game, without real challenge, and shallow content.
So I went back to EQ that I hadn't played for 2 years.

At this point I can only agree with the need to merge servers, besides, it is probably a normal evolution, since the world never stopped growing.
I don't see a server merge as a step backwards, if I were SOE I'd consider adding more zones and announce server merges, and with the DoN expension coming out, that will make use of the old zones, that would be the perfect opportunity. Actually it's probably what will happen.
With a server merge, I'd also consider having more that one central zone (i.e PoK). The concept of a central zone only came with the Luclin expension and the Nexus/bazaar, and I wouldn't say it was a real improvement on game quality. East commons was a player made central zone, but it was certainly not as central as the Nexus, or PoK have become.

As far as players ideas go, I think the 10th expension should be free, forced to all players, and include all past expensions except for DoN. This way SOE could 'normalize' the EQ world, and get rid of all the backward compatibility needed to maintain the game coherent for all possible combinations of expensions. So for example runes would drop all over the world, not only in the zones of the proper expension, quests could be more global, adventure systems could be all the same, etc... That would make EQ much more consistent to the new player, and could even be branded, EQ 1.5 for instance.

It is interesting John Smedley is asking others ideas, which email address should we use?

Just my 2 cents...

I agree

# Feb 13 2005 at 4:54 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591786637440

312 posts

I agree with a lot of these posts (though not all of them) Specifically the MERGE THE SERVERS posts, I agree that the servers are largely underpopulated, and with virtually no one starting a new account on EQ (except possibly people new to EQ2 who want to try out the original) the problem is not going to get any better, i agree that they should merge at least a few servers.

IF YOU WANT TO SAVE EQ

# Feb 13 2005 at 4:17 AM Rating: Default

__DEL__1593362534777

37 posts

MERGE THE SERVERS. NOT BEING ABLE TO FIND A GROUP IN CRAPPY WOS AS A 70 PALADIN WITH GOD/TIME GEAR IS REDICULOUS. WE NEED MORE PEOPLE, GUILDS ARE DYING, PROGRESSION HAS STOPPED. SAVE THE SERVERS, MERGE THEM.

server populations

# Feb 13 2005 at 2:06 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1649636384034

17 posts

I'm back from EQ2.

Was fun..I bought 4 accounts for me and my sons. Two of them are still playing....my toon, now played by one of them, is a level 33 Chanter and 36 alchemist.

But I do not think EQ2 has the impact, the intensity, of the original. I lost interest early.

On Zeb server, I have a 66 Cleric, a 60 SK, a 60 Chanter, 56 Mage, 56 Necro, 54 Shaman, 52 Wizzie and a 44 Berserker...all played from zero with very little PLing. I looked at the dam book thru 34 levels on 5 of them!

I've gotten well into the planes...but not elementals, yet. Lots more I want to do. I have my Emporer key...he is on my list.

Unfortunately, my Guild is nearly dead from people leaving the game...then leaving the guild to get more raids in...only to find that their new guild also has no people playing.

The proliferation of zones hasnt helped any.

I strongly urge we have server merges to get the population at prime times back up to where we can get groups and form raids.

The content, the graphics, and all the other things combined dont make up as much of the game as the social aspect of grouping/raiding with friends. People you get to know and 'trust with your life' over YEARS! Some have left, true...but we can make new friends if the game (SOE) doesnt desert us. The new zones and concepts are great..I like them and look forward to next week...but !!! even more population thinning?

At the moment, WOS, GE, POJ, POV, OT(depending on level) ...where else can you enter a zone and /ooc LFG and expect to possibly get a response...and then if there are over 12-18 people in the zone, it's unlikely. Even getting an LDON adv or GOD expidition now is very hard to do.

I hope you are looking hard at this.

What is going on?

# Feb 13 2005 at 1:10 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1593364122609

3 posts

What I would like to know is why no one is ever on. If they are, will it's not on the server I'm on. Has
the game been changed so bad that some server are almost dead? Or is it that there is to many expansions for all the expansions to keep play at a
even leve for every expansions? I do think there are
alot of expansions in EQ1, and really they don't make alot of people happy. From what I hear alot of people don't think to highly of EQ2 either.

(I was without internet for about a year)

my 2 coppers worth

# Feb 12 2005 at 11:45 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1592270416803

Scholar

43 posts

I started playing EQ in December of 2000. There were times I hated it, sure. The good times far outnumbered the bad times, though. I kept coming back.

What keeps me playing:

* roleplayers
* players who are fun to be around
* quests, quests, and more quests
* the complexity of the game (because I'm STILL learning about ways to improve my character)
* the element of danger (although Shadowrest took that away somewhat)
* the way the world is put together (like graphics, environments, and spells)

Every online game has its problems. DAoC just didn't have the same atmosphere. Anarchy Online made me lonely. Eve bored me to death. Earth and Beyond was too dumbed down.

In the end, it's the players who make a game and keep a game. With that, they're the reason I keep coming back to EQ. I think SOE is doing a fine job of keeping the right people by giving them what they like.

Mr. Smedley is on the right track. He knows what will kill EQ:

* a failure to understand and deliver what today's EQ players want

EQ2, like Smedley mentioned, is a way to reach those other players out there. Yes, it's different, just like Smedley said. It has to be different to reach a larger audience SOE can cash in on. If they dramatically changed EQ1, instead, they risked ruining what was already there and, in effect, losing the players they have.

With that, it doesn't surprise me that a small majority who tried EQ2 have come back to EQ1. SOE expected it I'm sure.

Lots of games are doing what EQ didn't. That's another way of answering the customers' calls, but it's not SOE in some cases. To survive, a variety of tactics are needed to see and understand what EQ players want, and Allakhazam is good place to turn to.

Yes, the server populations (or lack thereof) are a problem. As EQ1 continues to expand, the problem might just get worse (depending on the nature of the expansions, of course). Eventually SOE is going to have to really face the issue.

EQ vs EQ2 vs WoW

# Feb 12 2005 at 10:36 PM Rating: Good

__DEL__1592255942546

103 posts

I for one have played all 3...

and I can state that in my opinion EQ is still BY FAR the best MMO out there...

EQ2 is just not very fun...the combat is very dummied down from what we grew to love in EQ...In EQ2 mobs are basically either tied to other mobs, or single mobs...there is no longer a need for a specific puller as basically any class can now pull, there is no way to split mobs, they respawn remarkably fast...and the radical changes made to the classes we grew to love in EQ just are not well thought out...

WoW is also much easier than EQ...WoW is much more fun than EQ2, but still falls short of the greatness of the original Everquest...

what would be really nice is EQ with some of the features that were added to EQ2...Guild XP, the new tradeskill interface...The quest journal...the only thing that keeps many people playing EQ2 is the fact that the first person to discover an item, has their name and server attached to it, for all servers to see...adding features like this with a small improvement to the graphics...

EQ2 was too big of a change and really does not deserve the name everquest...

Everquest was such a great game, I still have active characters in EQ...I play very little these days, as beyond 60 the content does not really favor the soloer...and constantly being forced to group turned a fun experience into a chore at times...I still love the group aspect, but also would love to see more content for the 60+ character that is solo type content...

WoW is fun and if you like PvP is probably a better game...for me I was never a PvP player...EQ2 was a total cashing in of the name everquest...after level 30 I quit and have never gone back and have no intention of ever going back to it...

a couple of thoughts

# Feb 12 2005 at 1:17 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1646612213880

68 posts

well my first thought on skimming through this was yea right our kids making dungeons and you're going to equip them... next thing you know we'll be designing the mobs as well the way we used to (and some still do) in D&D... I see someone finding a way to load the dice here Smiley: sly

I've only been playing a year and half or so, highest I have is a 66 beast, not in a major raiding guild and I very much doubt if I ever will be in one. So where does that leave players like me that don't want to raid on a daily basis the way some people do, that don't really care to group outside of the guild, that wouldn't mind every once in a while being able to take fangs (yea I know dumb name for a wolf) out and solo. Heck i can heal the pet and in a pinch can heal myself but where are the mobs that i can solo on that's not going to take a group to come and rez my hind end (being polite here).

Merging servers would give us a wider player base to choose from for groups, may make it possible to actually get a group if you're looking for one outside your guild. But this in itself creates problems as well.

How about making the loot the same on the servers, I've watched links come in from other servers on the server wide beastlords channel for a price check and guess what.... they're no drop here. If you do merge the servers who gets to decide if something is no drop or not, do those players who come from the server that's being merged into ours get to sell their stuff and the stuff that actually dropped here remains no drop?

You're proud of EQ2 and perhaps rightly so, I've not played it and at this time I don't plan on playing it. Why? Because there's a lot of my friends here on Quellious who don't have the system they need to play it, who've played since day 1 of EQ and don't want to loose all the time money and effort they have in their characters.

Why design a game that the people you're targetting as it's client base do not have the system requirements to play it. Yes I will state for the record that the computers that are sold at Walmart and other places are able to play the game... BUT not everyone has the money to go pay for a new computer just to play a game. Nasty things like rent, food, clothing, education have a way of taking that monthly income away so we can't afford to go buy a new computer to play on. Smiley: twocents

One final thought here to end my rambling, virtual family... children to pass on the family name... wow lets think here, who gets to keep the kids in the case of divorce and oh child support till their 18 or maybe 20 and can choose their own surname Smiley: confused

. Who's going to feed them, dress them, pay for their spells, and no I don't want to even think about one of them borrowing my drog and forgetting where they left it cause someone at the brew barrel was offering free booze Smiley: drunk

... I have it a new race and class... something with teeth for a lawyer to take a bite out of the bank to pay for the kids

some great ideas

# Feb 12 2005 at 12:43 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1591818965069

227 posts

I would love to merge to eq2 but system requirements and unemployment leave me on EQ the original...it would be great pass on as a legacy in the form of quests...items spells and skills that we have acquired in eq to character (great grandchildren) players in eq2....just some thought....i have begun playing on the pvp server and its really fun whuppin guys and gals who think ther're tuff lol and even two and 3 on one (me being one) maybe bring some of that into eq....one thing i will point out is that with the merger of the zek servers (pvp)....at any one time there are nearly 300 pc's in pok....but not on the battle field....they dont know what to do yet i guess but WOW thats alot of peeps in pok

#REDACTED, Posted: Feb 11 2005 at 10:06 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Hey, how about making it so EVERY class is wanted or usefull in both raids and groups before you go and add crap like this.

RE: lol

# Feb 11 2005 at 10:27 PM Rating: Excellent

__DEL__1592342893054

Sage

710 posts

Quote:

I smell BS.

Your right - SOE thought the best way to make money was to hate what they do and to sell something they feel is utter garbage..

Quote:

Perhaps that's why 3/4 of the players quit? Ya think?

Quote your source - there's still plenty of people playing and 3/4 did not quit. If the bazaar used to have 500 merchants on an average friday night and now has 375 instead, that shows that there must be more than 3/4 of the population still playing..

Quote:

Hey, how about making it so EVERY class is wanted or usefull in both raids and groups before you go and add crap like this.

All the classes are wanted in raids and groups unless the raids and groups are run by the elitest groups. 65% of peoples problems with them finding groups is that they "/lfg" and think that should be enough to get them a group - never thinking to try sending tells or putting one together themselves.

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 10:41 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592258438738

51 posts

This guy hit the nail on the head. What sony isn't realizing is just because people are paying the bills every month that doesn't mean they are logging on. It is obvious to any active eq player that the servers need to be repopulated. MERGE SOME DAMN SERVERS ALREADY! Some of us still want to play this game

RE: lol

# Feb 11 2005 at 11:28 PM Rating: Default

114 posts

Quote:

Your right - SOE thought the best way to make money was to hate what they do and to sell something they feel is utter garbage..

You are new to the game apparently. My comments come from 4 years of putting up with SOE's incomplete expansions. They fix them for 6 months after they release them and still leave some things unfinished.

Quote:

All the classes are wanted in raids and groups unless the raids and groups are run by the elitest groups.

You've never raided if that lvl 52 Shaman is all you have, sorry. You should get 65+, join a raiding guild and then maybe you'll have a clue what I'm talking about. Grouping in MPG or RS is not considered "elite". You HAVE to group in those zones if you want to see that exp bar move at lvl 70.

Edited, Sat Feb 12 00:19:36 2005

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 11:38 AM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1592342893054

Sage

710 posts

Quote:

You are new to the game apparently. My comments come from 4 years of putting up with SOE's incomplete expansions. They fix them for 6 months after they release them and still leave some things unfinished.

Putting out an utter piece of garbage and being happy about it and putting out an utter piece of garbage and not being happy about it are two different things

You were saying they were BSing about caring about the job they do - I was simply pointing out that nobody purposefully puts out garbage.

Don't forget that the people who do the job that affects us and the people who are the boss are two separate entities.

Programers, GMs, even John Smedly all report to someone higher then them..(John is only the president of the SOE branch, not the CEO of the company) If that persons says "its fine move on to the next expansion" then they have to leave things as it is. That doesn't mean they didn't want to do the best job they could, it just means for them to keep their Job and pay their bills they had to leave things as they were.

So you can't say its BS when they say they care about the changes they make. If they really didn't care they wouldn't have had the summit last year and they wouldn't bother to patch at all.

Quote:

You've never raided if that lvl 52 Shaman is all you have, sorry. You should get 65+, join a raiding guild and then maybe you'll have a clue what I'm talking about. Grouping in MPG or RS is not considered "elite". You HAVE to group in those zones if you want to see that exp bar move at lvl 70.

Yes I have raided thank you very much and no a 52 shaman is not all I have ever played, but I don't need to explain myself or my character situations to you.

Your talking of 65-70 which believe it or not is actually a very small portion of the game considering there was 64 levels before that and countless AA. So you should specify that they should fix the class balance of the higher levels (which even they agree to because they say they are looking into it).

Class balance wasn't as big an issue until GoD. People complained about it before - but it was glaring afterwards and people really started to speak up about it.

However, back to the original point - its still the elitests (or those that just think they are elite) that really restrict those who join their groups/raids. Others are just happy to have a warm body to fill slot six - and then they are happy at what the person adds to the group, and other still know the value of certain classes and plan appropriately.

Everything your referring to all points to how fast you can "WIN" at EQ (i.e. the higher levels, the speed at which you level, etc.) which is more a choice in playing style than a flaw in SOE's programming.

Edited, Sat Feb 12 11:41:06 2005

RE: lol

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:41 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591793770309

18 posts

Quote:

Your talking of 65-70 which believe it or not is actually a very small portion of the game considering there was 64 levels before that and countless AA

65-70 IS the majority of players online, most others are either vendor bots, twinked out alts or are just starting, which is very few. Granted, not every can walk into the high end zones because of keys or flags, but that is the goal of the game. Getting there, killing the residents, and hopefully walking away with souvenirs. The reason new expansions keep coming out are not to interest people joining 1-64, but to keep those die-hard endgamers around another 6 months to a year.

Squinty is just one of many that has gotten way too frustrated and is probably no longer having fun. (says no longer plays yet still mad about it!) And he played a druid, probably has spent 3 years soloing and then had change his ways to group and raid. Same can be said for Paladins who soloed into the 50's. Hell, my main is a Magician, and I HATE having to destroy my pet for raids.

Personally, I play 1-3 65+ characters at a time, Started EQ right after Kunark era, don't care/complain about character balancing or the five or six NO DROP items in my bank no one can find a use for, just finished the 8th shawl and Grand Robe of the Oracle :) and have 3 planar flags. Our guild still raids HoT and kills Vindi (get Grieg often too), we recruit 46+, are working on shards, and don't plan on seeing Time any time soon. Not a one of us is 70 yet, but we still play and enjoy.

So no, I'm not the character that is going to enjoy the full benefit of new expansions, I do enjoy the functions that come with them though, like guild halls. But SoE, keep coming out with new expansions and I'll just keep adding to my laundry list of To Do items.

Eliminos / Saryrn,
66 Mage Officer of Imminent Defeat

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 12:34 PM Rating: Decent

114 posts

Quote:

However, back to the original point - its still the elitests (or those that just think they are elite) that really restrict those who join their groups/raids.

Specific classes are required to accomplish certain things in the game. For instance in MPG trials. Some classes will almost always be left out (such as mine, a Druid), unless you have guildies or friends that feel like doing you a favor. Getting in an open group for nearly any of these is near impossible for a Druid.

GoD put a hurting on the Druid and other classes. When did GoD come out? November of 2003? does it really take almost 1.5 years and 2 more expansions for SOE to address class issues?

I was (untill I cancelled my account) a very active Druid on the EQlive forums for the last year. We've had the same class update list resubmitted to SOE for the last 6 months or more. The items on it come back either "Currently being evaluated" or "no change planned at this time". With this new "re-envisioning" crap they are doing, most of the "no change planned at this time" items are now being considered. I'm at a loss for words.

The only reason they are doing all of this is because they lost almost 3/4 of their players to WoW. They don't care about the problems some classes have. And, granted alot of people are still holding onto EQ accounts, but many of them are not playing anymore.

After SOE botches up the Re-envisioning and alienates even more players, then people will start parting with their accounts that they've held for years.

Quote:

Everything your referring to all points to how fast you can "WIN" at EQ (i.e. the higher levels, the speed at which you level, etc.) which is more a choice in playing style than a flaw in SOE's programming.

Its not about how fast you can win at EQ. Its about how competitive you can remain so that you actually contribute to raids. As your guild progresses through Time, GoD and OoW, more is being demaded of your character that you can only accomplish through exp groups.

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 3:46 PM Rating: Default

__DEL__1591779730229

5 posts

GoD came out in spring 2004, and it was intended to be harder than hell, not for the average person, it was intended to add content mostly for people who were past VT/Ele's/Time, secondly just because you aren't wanted doesn't mean other druids aren't wanted, I know lots of druids 65+ that heal just as well as any cleric and I will take them just as easily as a cleric if they are lfg. not to mention druids are great dps classes.

RE: lol

# Feb 14 2005 at 1:27 PM Rating: Decent

__DEL__1591783358770

18 posts

Quote:

GoD came out in spring 2004, and it was intended to be harder than hell, not for the average person, it was intended to add content mostly for people who were past VT/Ele's/Time

Unfortunately they failed miserably in this endeavor. You could not take a Time level hybrid tank into Tipt and have much of a chance of suceeding. On the other hand you could take a VT level Warrior in there and suceed. Our raiding collective had 1 group fully through Tipt before the defensive nerf went through and we'd never stepped foot in the elementals or VT. So although their intention was probably was what you mention, they failed miserably. Rather they opened up huge opourtunities for Cleric/Warrior/Enchanter based groups while entirely ignoring many of the other classes. While friends were progressing upward through GoD, if you were not one of the chosen, you were left behind.

MMO game development simply cannot get to the point where you cannot add challenging content for one group makeup that is simply impossible for a second equally valid group makeup.

This is the major reason why so many are leaving and left EQ. You can't just ignore class balance for several years and expect people to not become bitter when the majority of players don't play the overbalanced classes.

I'm glad they are relooking at class balance now, but its far far too late to do much good.

As another side note, I notice lots saying that they are returning from EQ2... I don't see that many saying that they are returning from WoW...

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 12:47 AM Rating: Good

__DEL__1592759071979

22 posts

You had a problem with how they run the game and you still played for 4 years?

RE: lol

# Feb 12 2005 at 12:04 PM Rating: Good

114 posts

Despite all of the problems, I play where my friends are. Also, keep in mind that untill recently EQ was the most populated MMO. Its no fun playing a Massive Multiplayer Online game if people are hard to find.