Like every other healing class excluding Clerics, you can get crit heals if you get the right AA. "Healing Gift, Requirements: Level: 55, Must spend 6 ability points in General Abilities. This ability grants you a chance to score an exceptional heal at 3, 6, and 10 percent. An exceptional heal douples the healing value of the spell" it costs 12 points to max it out. not so hard. Then you can pump it up even more with Advanced Healing Gift. And no one is going to ask a druid to be the healer in OoW before really high levels anyway (66+ at least), unless your talking DS, which a group of 50s could handle with the only healer being a paladin. So, just work on your aas and quit whining.

well could that be because your not a TANK you are a damage dealer?? not to say that rangers CAN'T tank but its not their main area of expertise.

OK! I have a pally, and if there is ANY class that is more balanced over the others i would have to raise my hand. Pally's are QUITE balanced. The only way I think that a pally is not balanced is that we get certain spells alot later then we should. but after those levels are past we catch up again and are quite balanced.

and as far as being at tank or cleric, a paladin is a mix of BOTH those classes hense why we are called hybrids. an sk is a mix of necro and warrior.

as far as having 9k hp and dropping faster then a warrior, well a war is MENT to take hits like that and not drop as fast. but a warrior can not heal himself OR stun mobs so they need to be able to take the damage.

Honestly there is no reason for you to be complaining about being one of the most balanced classes in the game. and thats what you are doing!

Ummm You know that a Warrior of similar HP/AC just takes 12 seconds longer to become said speedbump. He can use Furious/Fortitude disc but Jhiru was re-tuned so that if a Warrior uses Defensive/Evasive/Stonewall Jihru will just ignore him and shred the rest of the party.

That proves the useful disc gives the Warrior a 12 second edge in tanking, but at that level of HP and AC you're both toast unless you start with a Ranger WS, then hopefully taunt before he smears and have a charmed pet doing mad damage.

This guy is a moron and obviously has no clue how to play a paladin.

1) The paladin is the most surviveable tank around---there is not other class that can give themselves 1k hp in 1 second PERIOD---don't bother pointing out warrior discs because they cannot be used all the time like pally heals

2) A paladin holds aggro only second to an sk making them a far more desireable group tank than a warrior will ever be

3) Don't complain about your dps because dps is not the responsability of the tank and furthermore ALL TANK DPS SUCKS----yes this includes warriors eventhough many wars have convinced themselves that they are dps

4) Most people who complain about their paladin are those who haven't figured out how to play the class and aren't worth a crap at eq anyway so dont listen to them

Ok, I must say that I am kinda hung up on this issue after reading/re-reading the post a few times.. then thinking about it a bit. In a *way* I agree since a warrior (master of the art of war) should know how to use pretty much any weapon of war. However, if this is so then a warrior shouldn't be able to master any single weapon(being that if you are training on every weapon out there you have no time to focus your skills on just one).
Now on the disagree part.. why pick on just monks/beastlords? Why not all the godly rogue-only or ranger-only weapons out there? Or any other X class-only weapons for that sake? Or is this just the *Player* looking at the crazy dps out put of monks/beastlords with their weapons of focus? Monks Only get 1hb, 2hb, and H2H (yeap beasties get 1hp to add to that list)... while warriors have 1hs, 2hs, 1hb, 2hb, 1hp, 2hp, and can wield a sheild if they so desire. Yes, warriors do deal dps (heck if you hit the mob at all you deal dps) but warriors were not designed to be the high dps classes that monks/beastlords/rogues/etc/etc are.
As a beastlord player I will agree that there are some really crazy H2H weapons out there... BUT being already limited in my gear (ever tried to get *good* high end gear for a beastlord that even comes close to some of those plate items out there??) and in my weapon choices.. are you going to also make me fight against warriors for that ulak? If so then they need to add pally and sk to some of those warrior-only items (and hate augs) out there.

Dylothe,

I think that's a terrific idea. I'm not of a level to scribe Acumen, but I did buy Invigor and scribe it just because I hate seeing blank slots in my spell book. =)

Since the advent of the Endurance bar, the spell(s) do nothing useful as you rightly point out. If SOE would switch the spells from STA to END it'd be a good thing.

If you like to solo noone likes you?? WTF? I love to solo and have gotten darn good at it as of late. Classes are made to be soloers and groupers..I'm a necro and I still sit for hours with LFG on before I head out to farm AA's in PoS. And i solo with LFG on. Its noones fault soloers are so good at soloing its what the classes are made for..of course a war cant solo up aa's like me but its harder for me to find a grp were I can just be a necro instead of the puller/mezzer/charmer/manabattery/offheal/maindps and all the other stuff we can do in a grp. And try dealing DPS in a seriuos grp and accidentally pull aggro off the War we never hear the end of it and usually end up dead or FD with only 6% hp left...I love my solo abilities and its the solo aspect that keeps me paying for the privalige to play..if anyone needs any fixing please help the warriors and their aggro sustainment and leave the soloers to solo if they want.

If you like to solo noone likes you?? WTF? I love to solo and have gotten darn good at it as of late. Classes are made to be soloers and groupers..I'm a necro and I still sit for hours with LFG on before I head out to farm AA's in PoS. And i solo with LFG on. Its noones fault soloers are so good at soloing its what the classes are made for..of course a war cant solo up aa's like me but its harder for me to find a grp were I can just be a necro instead of the puller/mezzer/charmer/manabattery/offheal/maindps and all the other stuff we can do in a grp. And try dealing DPS in a seriuos grp and accidentally pull aggro off the War we never hear the end of it and usually end up dead or FD with only 6% hp left...I love my solo abilities and its the solo aspect that keeps me paying for the privalige to play..if anyone needs any fixing please help the warriors and their aggro sustainment and leave the soloers to solo if they want.

Disclaimer: None of this is meant as a flame vs other classes. I know no class is being favoured over others to any large degree, and we all have issues that need fixing. Don't counterflame me with unrelated things. I'm merely pointing out the issues monks are facing today, and drawing comparisons to other classes to prove the point.

FD memblur takes approximately 2-3 minutes, not 15. And it's meant to be a fallback thing, not a quick painless way to pull.

I agree that our class does have some issues, but running faster is a minor one. What about our mitigation? It was nerfed ages ago because of itemization issues in Velious and Luclin, but now it's been found our AC does jack all above 1200 or so, and the nerf is long due to be lightened.

And the FD getting rid of aggro thing. I don't mean to patronize, don't take it that way, but you are turning off attack right? Any time I get aggro in an exp group and FD, I lose aggro almost instantly.

Another odd thing I've noticed is if you have a stunner in your group stunning the mob, if you FD and stand while the mob is stunned, it won't do a thing. I FD and wait for the HoTT to turn to the tank before standing to be sure.

By the way, Return Kick and Double Riposte are broken. I forget which, but one of them overwrites the other, essentially. (ie: You will only Return Kick, never Double Riposte, if you buy both.) Been that way since Luclin.

As far as aggro goes, I tank now and then if the need arises (chanter dies and I have to offtank a mezzed mob, tank dies, no tanks lfg, etc.) It'd be nice to see some more pro-tank movement for monks. Be it improved damage mitigation, or better aggro holding, or some lesser form of warrior /shield.

Monks seem to be the pure class that have nothing they do best, so why not give us back what we had, and let us be a minor tank again?

A monk pulling in Time is almost a waste of time compared to a Necro/SK/Bard team. I know it can be done, but it's much slower because all we have to rely on is FD.

If Sony puts us back in the lead as pullers, the Necros SKs and Bards are likely to pitch a fit about being nerfed. And I'm not going to rant about how each of them has so many other things they do well.

If they put our DPS up some, we'll hear it, too. Take a look at Beastlords. They're meant to be a hybrid of us and a Shaman, yet they do more DPS, tank better (both in terms of getting aggro and taking damage,) and can slow, heal, buff, invis, etc. I have 6.3k hp unbuffed, and have a tough time soloing PoI without ample downtime, yet a 55 BST in low-end gear can solo twice as fast as me, a similar-leveled BST with lower gear can easily out-taunt me (slow, cripple, pet procs,) and a similar-geared BST can take dmg better than I do. Or at least it seems that way to me.

Anyway. My point is, Sony needs to decide first of all what the heck Monks are supposed to be, because they've bounced all over. We went from pullers to tanks to dps to pullers again, but never were we particularly good at any one, despite being one of the "pure" classes.

LOL! Never.

Sony: Destroyer of Online Worlds

I actually like the idea of "No doubling up of classes in a group". IE you can't have two Clerics, two tanks, etc.etc., you may have only one. This would give the other classes a chance to group. I have a 44 Shaman that has no problem ever getting a group, a 27 Cleric that has no problem, but my 59 Ranger? nearly impossible.

I have to agree here we're not light tanks, yet repeatedly we get the agro from the tanks in some cases more then i get when i'm playing my 'chanter and nuking. Yes we get a nice slow at 65 and yet if we cast before the tank has agro guess who's in for a beating. I'm not sure how FD would work for us having not played a necro or my monk high enough for it to really work yet, but if you're going to make us or keep us as semi tanks then how about giving us the weapons and armor to match that.

The whole upper level spells needs to be redone IMO, unless we can get groups in BoT the level 65 spells alone are over 25-35k in bazaar on our server. Runes have been slowly dropping in price but are still around 20k each, don't even get me started on the price of ornate or high end weapons. I know a White Dragon Helm is hard to get and the stats on it are fantastic but 250k fantastic?

Aggro really isn't an issue for well-played Wizzie, even without Concussion. You simply have to resign yourself to spending nearly half of every fight sitting on your butt doing nothing, only to stand up once or twice & toss a nuke.

& of course, if you have Concussion, you can then toss a few more nukes.

I think some folks get the impression that "tank" is a synonym for warrior and the others should just be gimp-tanks. In fact, there's no reason one tank classes should have an advantage over another for TANKING. Don't classify yourself according to this one ability, but look at your entire set of skills.

Paladins - Sacrifice about 40% of their melee damage for stuns and healing spells they mostly can't use in battle. Oh, and one buff that stacks with clerics. Paladins best spells are stuns, which cannot be used unless the paladin is tanking and get more nerfed with every expansion.

Shadowknights - Sacrifice about 40% of their melee damage for snare, dots, debuffs and a nearly worthless pet. Most of these are high agro, so an SK has to tank to use them.

Warriors - One of the better DPS classes. The most flexibility of weapon choices. Compare to a rogue who has better DPS but cannot tank at all.

Each is different, but on the role of tank, they can all share the title for BEST. The funny thing is, it often doesn't matter because the usefulness of another tank is minimal. When putting together a group or a raid, you need a certain number of tanks, often just one. More tanks don't help.

Once you have the quota of tank(s) and utility classes, warriors have a huge advantage over the other tank classes. To push up the DPS warriors are almost always more effective than paladins and shadowknights. I rarely ever invite a paladin or SK on an LDoN unless they're tanking, but include warrior on the list with ranger, rogue, wizard, and monk.

--
Neebat, a stunning high-elf paladin
Spigot, a jumjum warrior

I have a 66 epiced rog with decent gear, (6k hp 1200 ac with virtue and 1340 unbuffed attack)on the namless, and I usually have no problem dropping aggro, and rarely have to evade. What I do is I wait a few seconds before attacking and usually only get hit when the the tank moves around or a pet pushes the mob behind me(Beastlord pets are the worst for pushing mobs I find, drives me nuts sometimes, maybe they should fix that) I duo with a 62 pally friend all the time and the only time I take aggro off him is when he stops attacking to heal himself, than 1 stun and he's got it back.

What I would like to see them do for rogues is make an endurance buff or heal , unlink some disciplines and lower the reuse timers, 40 min for counter attack is way too long.Other than that dont' change us at all I love playing a rog.

Spikeo 66 rogue - nameless

Edited, Fri Jan 7 16:47:32 2005