New WoW Content Leaving Casual Players Behind?

WoW's endgame content is being released faster than ever before. Are casual raiders being left behind?

A few months back, I wrote an editorial about Blizzard's new "post-Lich King" trend of releasing new content quicker than ever before. Despite the controversy and various player issues resulting from the company's new release standard, I believe it ultimately offers the community more good than bad. However, I recently came across the post, "Does new content outdate too fast?" at Tobold's MMORPG Blog, which gave me pause. Tobold received a letter from a casual World of Warcraft player who feels left in the dust; the speed of new endgame content—specifically dungeons like Ulduar, Trial of the Grand Crusader and now the new Onyxia raid—is just too fast for some players.

Most hardcore raiders would contend that, in this case, the good outweighs the bad. Even many casual raiders, including me, agree that new content is a good thing; regardless of how overwhelming it can be for people without the time to "just put their head down and do it." But there are other factors to consider, too. For example, what about casual raiders who can't find players willing to run through the 10-player, let alone the 25-player, versions of these dungeons because they don't have anything to gain? Even if an older raid dungeon still houses one or two pieces of gear that offers an upgrade, why not run the newest raid instead, which offers better odds of getting stronger gear?

Classic WoW and its first expansion, The Burning Crusade, offered casual raiders much more time to complete endgame content before the next patch rolled out a new raid. It wasn't uncommon for players to have six months or more between updates, giving even the slowest-progressing players time to catch up before the next big raid came along. On the other hand, hardcore raiders were often left "twiddling their thumbs" during most of those months, having cleared the content just weeks after its initial launch.

Today, we've seen Blizzard change to an unprecedented release schedule, with new content patches and endgame raids released within as little as two or three months of each other. In the old days, it might have been a full year before Wrath of the Lich King's endgame content, Naxxramas, was succeeded by the next-highest raid patch (Ulduar, in this case). Even though the gap between Naxxramas and Ulduar was about six months, the gap between subsequent endgame raids since then has narrowed.

Consider WoW patch 3.2, which introduced the new Trial of the Crusader/Grand Crusader raid in early August, about three months after players first stepped foot in Ulduar. Just a little more than one month later, patch 3.2.2 introduced the revamped Onyxia raid. Next comes the grand finale of the Lich King era; Icecrown Citadel in patch 3.3, which will probably be released before the end of the year (possibly as soon as November, as some have rumored).

If you belong to a hardcore raiding guild, chances are you don't feel nearly as much pressure; two months/eight runs is a decent amount of time to clear the new content with a respectable amount of spoils. Semi-regular raiding guilds might not be able to clear content as often, but gearing up in time for whatever's next usually isn't a problem; your collective gear level will most likely be high enough to at least start running the next dungeon.

But what about casual raiders, or players who fall behind a whole patch or more? These days, taking a break from WoW for a month or two leaves a bigger void than it did before Wrath of the Lich King. It's even more difficult when you can't find other players or guildmates willing to help you catch up; why waste the time on old content when they could be running new stuff?

As hard as it might be for some of the more dedicated players to believe, I know raiders on my server who haven't even cleared Naxx yet; they either joined Wrath of the Lich King late or took a short break from the game at the wrong time; right before Ulduar came out. The release speed of post-Ulduar raid content increased, making it even harder for them to find people willing to help them finish up Naxx, learn Ulduar and move on to Trial of the Champions.

I've experienced this phenomenon first-hand; ironically, having a job writing about WoW and other MMOs can drastically cut into your play time. As ashamed as I am to admit it, I haven't cleared Ulduar yet. Sure, most of my friends and guildies have, but I fell behind on our weekly raiding schedule and before I knew it, patch 3.2 came out and not many people were interested in running Ulduar anymore. At the rate I'm progressing—even as I try kicking it into higher gear to catch back up—my friends and guildmates will probably be running Icecrown Citadel by the time I'm ready to finally start Trial of the Grand Champion.

Organizing and actually running a 10-player raid—let alone 25-player one—is a difficult thing to do, unless you belong to dedicated raiding guild. There's also so much to do in WoW these days (achievements, new PvP, faction rep grinding) that it's harder to find a couple of dozen people willing to devote their time doing the same thing, at the same time.

Plus, hardcore raiders who are already on top of the latest endgame content have a harder time placing themselves in the shoes of the casual player, often dismissing them as noobs who don't know how to play. It's difficult for the hardcore raider to fathom how this person could be so far behind, unless they just plain suck at raiding. Sometimes it's the same with casual players, wondering how the hardcore player has the time to advance so far, and so quickly; they both come from different worlds of playing, so they have a tough time understanding each other's gameplay.

Blizzard is, and has been, making progress in addressing this problem, though. The "emblem system" introduced in Burning Crusade gives a little extra incentive for players to re-run dungeons, and they provide casual players an easier way to advance by gearing up, regardless of unlucky loot rolls. Blizzard even took the emblem system a step further in patch 3.2, offering more valuable emblems from easier dungeons and raids.

The new-and-improved "looking for group" system makes it easier for players with similar goals to seek each other out. Also, as Tobold mentions in his blog post, we've heard rumors that Blizzard might be introducing a new LFG system in the future, one that rewards players for organizing successful groups via the system. We might not see this new LFG system in all its glory until the upcoming Cataclysm expansion, but it's a step in the right direction, at least.

During BlizzCon 2009, the developers also announced they've been toying around with the idea of cross-server dungeons, which would probably help solve this problem more than anything else. A cross-server dungeon system would essentially be the same as the existing "Battlegroup" mechanic, currently used for PvP Battlegrounds. It would allow players from two or more servers to "queue up" for a specific dungeon until a match is found, at which point all players would be pulled together to participate together. Blizzard said they would probably start off by testing this new mechanic on the smaller 5-player dungeons, but the real value of cross-server instancing would ultimately make it much easier to form 10- and 25-player raid groups.

Lastly, Blizzard has introduced additional, smaller fixes throughout the past few months that tackle some of the more annoying aspects of raiding, like loosening the grip on soul-bound loot, giving players more time to clear large raids and not locking single players out if they weren't there when the group took a boss down. Little things like these indirectly help the problem by removing some of the more rigid aspects of raiding, offering a more-flexible experience, conducive to repeated runs.

So, do I think Blizzard should slow down the new endgame content, making it easier for players like me to catch up? No way. Even though I'm annoyed that most of my friends and guildies are ahead of me, content-wise, I still believe new material is more important for the game, when you consider the bigger picture. If Blizzard wasn't lifting a finger to make it easier for players to catch up, it might be a different story. But as long as the developers recognize the issue and continue making an effort to allow players like me the opportunity to experience new content, I'm okay with putting the blame on myself…for the time-being, at least.

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meh
# Oct 15 2009 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
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1,876 posts
You know, I know this is an editorial, but it's dripping with bias and misconceptions. The speed at which raids are released now compared to earlier, is roughly the same. By this time in BCs cycle, TK and Hyjal had been released, and BT was soon to be. With WotLK, Ulduar and ToC have been released, and IC is soon to be. (No, Onyxia doesn't count, it's not a "whole tier" of raiding, it's one boss that takes 10 minutes to do and can be done with HToC5/emblem gear)

Also, the conception about the amount of time that raiders need to put into the game is hugely exaggerated. You simply don't need to get full BiS from Naxx/EoE/OS to progress to Uld, then get full BiS from Uld to progress to ToC like is being suggested. The emblem gear and the other options that are out there hasten progression from one tier to another, especially for those guilds who are behind the curve. The example of the guilds "still in Naxx" are misrepresented as their inability to progress beyond it due to gearing or content issues. It's just not the case. Guilds still in Naxx are stuck there for several reasons, but gear availability and raid accessibility are not among them.

Reading through the rest of the article, it seems as though Wax is attempting to "stir the pot" on the Hardcore vs. Casual debate (which, itself is a misconception, as many "hardcore" play less than many of the "casual", but they always make it about playtime anyway). It shines a light on those who are behind the curve a bit, but it also offers very little information in the way that Blizzard has made the gear gap smaller and the accessibility wider for all raid instances so far.
Take a new perspective...
# Oct 15 2009 at 8:59 AM Rating: Decent
45 posts
What I'm noticing is that a lot of people are still locked into the "raid progression" viewpoint, which Blizzard is working on eliminating. With the most recent patch (3.2), they introduced new raids beyond Ulduar. My guild is still running Ulduar trying to gear up for the new content.

And it's unnecessary.

At the same time the new raids were released, Blizzard made a change that many hardcore raiders (or people who panicked and became temporarily hardcore) were angry at: They converted all the previous content to drop Ulduar-level badges.

What does this mean for casuals? Well, why are you running Ulduar? I can think of three reasons to do so:
1. You want to experience the content.
2. You need to gear up so you can continue your progression.
3. You feel like you need to be able to handle this content to handle harder content.

If it's number 1, great. But that's the only reason to run Naxx or Ulduar anymore. The fact is, the benefits of running for gear or practice just aren't there anymore. With heroics dropping Ulduar-level badges, you can catch yourself up to the item-level 226 gear in as much time as it takes to run 25 heroics (or less.) If you can spare about 5 hours a week, this will take about 3 weeks, and getting together a group for a heroic is far simpler than arranging a raid. Plus, by doing the heroic daily, you'll be picking up a couple ToC-level emblems each day you play, and probably be able to purchase at least one item-level 245 piece of gear by the time you're done with the rest. Even if your gear is still blues and greens, the new 5-man (Trial of the Champion) has a regular mode that drops item-level 200 gear and a heroic mode that drops item-level 219 gear. And both with the frequency of dime-store candy.

The point of all that is: If you feel like you're being left behind on raiding, take a step aside, try the new content and revised old content that's slipping under the radar, and catch up. There will be plenty of time to return to Naxx and Ulduar after the Lich King is dead, or even after Cataclysm launches.

Plus, let's be honest. Running raids like Trial of the Crusader and Onyxia take far less time than clearing Ulduar. (No trash to clear, smaller number of bosses...) If time is your issue (as it is mine), gear up through the alternative paths above and move on to these new raids which are practically tailored to time-sensitivity.

Step outside the traditional or accepted viewpoint, and you may discover that Blizzard actually wants to help us keep up.

Edited, Oct 15th 2009 11:03am by homeschoolzam
Illustrated his point exactly
# Oct 15 2009 at 6:09 AM Rating: Good
Anobix illustrated Yngvie's point exactly. This is the type of person he was referring to.

"...it doesn't take 10 days to hit level 60." Really? Maybe for you. Raiding 3 nights a week could be considered seriously hard core to some people that have a family, job, life outside the game.

Don't get me wrong, the game needs people like Anobix. Where else would we get great walkthru's and character advise. I simply take umbrage with hard core players that denigrate others that do not have the same amount of time to play

My guild is made up exclusively of people over age 25. We have 1 night a week that is guild night and everyone seems pretty happy with that. On a rare occasion we might have enough people on to do a 10 man outside of guild night. We have exactly 2 players that are geared enough for Ulduar level content, and both of them are retired and play 4+ days a week.

The point of the main article was that the new content comes out so fast, only the "hard core" can keep up and then they complain it's too easy. The forums erupt with threads demanding more, hard content.

Yngvie's post was spot on.
Illustrated his point exactly
# Oct 15 2009 at 6:39 AM Rating: Good
johofector wrote:
Anobix illustrated Yngvie's point exactly. This is the type of person he was referring to.

"...it doesn't take 10 days to hit level 60." Really? Maybe for you. Raiding 3 nights a week could be considered seriously hard core to some people that have a family, job, life outside the game.

Don't get me wrong, the game needs people like Anobix. Where else would we get great walkthru's and character advise. I simply take umbrage with hard core players that denigrate others that do not have the same amount of time to play

My guild is made up exclusively of people over age 25. We have 1 night a week that is guild night and everyone seems pretty happy with that. On a rare occasion we might have enough people on to do a 10 man outside of guild night. We have exactly 2 players that are geared enough for Ulduar level content, and both of them are retired and play 4+ days a week.

The point of the main article was that the new content comes out so fast, only the "hard core" can keep up and then they complain it's too easy. The forums erupt with threads demanding more, hard content.

Yngvie's post was spot on.


I think part of the problem is dividing what is casual and what is 'hard core'. I consider raiding 2-3 nights a week very casual, where only the most hardcore guilds in the world raid 5+ nights a week. Many of the world/continent top-250 guilds don't raid more than 3 nights a week, sometimes 4 if they still have things to finish. And actually, I really only play about 8-10 hours a week - I don't do dailies (I have almost 40k gold from playing the AH for 5 minutes a few days a week..), I basically login -> raid for 3 hours on Tuesday and 4 hours on Thursday -> logout, and repeat. That is pretty casual in my opinion to be able to experience endgame content.

If we want to talk about ultra-casual players who can't afford to be online for more than 30-60 minutes at a time, then I could see that the new raid content was leaving them in the dust... albeit 4 or 5 of the raids are completable in that amount of time (Sartharion, Malygos, Onyxia, ToC).
Not too fast
# Oct 14 2009 at 10:16 PM Rating: Decent
18 posts
I am a very very casual player. I did some raids but I don't enjoy it. Its too much of a chore than fun for me, and I play the game to relax. And after a few times of "hurry up and get into the raid before your slot is filled" only to have it cancelled because we couldnt fill certain slots I gave up on raiding. Easier that way.

I'm a roleplayer, which means I usually do play from the Point of view of the character. New content means for me the world actually progresses and moves onward. New dailies keep an ultra-casual like me content with new stuff. So far I think Blizzard does a very good job in balancing it.
Casual Player
# Oct 14 2009 at 6:00 PM Rating: Decent
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343 posts
I really don't think the new content is coming out fast at all. I do feel bad for those hard working programers at Blizz. Sorry guys, I haven't set foot in Uldar. Not once, but I am 8 badges away from my first piece of T9 and close to as many for my second piece of T8 gear. I've been playing for 2.5 years and really enjoy this game. I love the fact that there is something new to this game every 3 months! New raids? Whatever. I still haven't touched a 10man or 25man since Naxx was big. New PvP? Really? Don't PvP either. ToC was a new twist in the presentation of an instance, and I think it is fun. Glad they gave the option to skip the rp, as it gets old after the first 20 times :) But, as a casual player I have to agree with what Greeve said. There is little here for the casual or single player side. Do I like the "Get 9 Rats" idea? Not so much, but it did help me get to lvl 80, and pushed me through a lot of lore that I would have missed. Would be cool to see gear comparable to T8 gear at the end of a 50 part quest chain though. Or like the new pets, put a timed piece into the chain, eg at quest 16 in a chain, you have to grow a plant. It sits in your bag for 2 weeks and then you can move to the next step. It's a great way to have those casual players with 4 kids and a beautiful wife keep in the loop. Get your gear and look for a raid. By then you should have watched a vid on the instance and know the fights. Tada. Best of both worlds. And you don't have to run the same 5 mans over and over to get your badges. Cause let's face it, the only real downfall with the creative side of this game is once you've run an instance, you've pretty much run them all.

There truly are so many facits to this game that as a casual player (I log 8-10 hrs a week), I'm still paying. PvP, Achivements, Quest Chains, Rep Grind and of course gear, gear, gear. Let's move the focus from new raids, I mean gear (face it, the new posts are all about the gear for the upcoming IC) and get a bit more creative. I could care about T10, but I do want to kick the Litch King's @ss!!!

Blizz, your doing a great job. Just think your in a confortable rutt:)

BS
# Oct 14 2009 at 5:55 PM Rating: Good
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363 posts
I am the definition of "casual" raider. I raid one night a week on average. Many weeks I don't raid, occasionally I'll get to go twice a week.

Tonight is the one night I'm raiding this week, and I'm going to ToC 25. Now it's not a grand crusader run, but I'm getting to all the content, I'm having fun and I'm not stressing over raid schedules.

This is what is different in Wrath. It was easy for me to gear up, easy to find a group, and we don't need to wipe on a boss 5 times before downing him.
Partly right
# Oct 14 2009 at 5:46 PM Rating: Decent
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4,684 posts
While the sentiment of the post is right, and "leaving WoW for a month now leaves a bigger void than pre-WOTLK", it is also true that (raid) content has become increasingly easy and more accessible and that void can be filled up in the timespan of a week. So no, the new WoW content is far from "leaving casual players behind". With how easy current raids are, the updates will simply have to be done this fast to keep people interested.
Does seem too fast to me
# Oct 14 2009 at 5:35 PM Rating: Decent
I am in a guild that has a regular raid schedule and we have been able to get into the other instances like Uldar and the new Ony but I am having trouble trying to get another 80 toon geared up as most of the guild want to run ToC all the time. I am even having trouble PUGing.

The emblem system has helped a little but it is nothing like when I was bringing my main up and having to turn down raids because I was burned out.
looking at other MMOs
# Oct 14 2009 at 5:25 PM Rating: Decent
26 posts
At least from my experience in playing Everquest, the massive speed in which they released content expansions was vastly quicker than most players and guilds could keep up. Casual players like myself were rapidly left in the dust. If content is released too quickly it can absolutely kill a game, as the only players left in the game will soon be the uber raiders. That said, I really don't think WoW is going quite that rapidly. They're releasing content appeasing raiders, but they're keeping major expansions at less than one a year, which most people can keep up with. It's probably closest to the best balance one could get for raiders vs. casual players; casual players just have to get used to the fact that they may not play in every zone or raid ever created in the game, just as raiders have to get used to the fact that games can't be designed solely for them.
new content good
# Oct 14 2009 at 3:17 PM Rating: Decent
more raids are not a bad thing at all but i personally thing that there need to be more small group and single player content released that raid content on a regular basis along with the raid content. Also i am a casual gamer kids, job, and gf dont allow for me to raid 5 days a week any more the only real complaint that i have is that some gear is way to easy to get. triumph emblems are the best use of the emblem system so far, you actually have to work towards getting something.
asdf
# Oct 14 2009 at 3:12 PM Rating: Good
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111 posts
The problem for me with WoW is that all of this stuff is the same old rehashed sh*t we've been playing for years. There is nothing new or exciting coming from these dungeons, just more loot, which seems to be the only way to differentiate your character in this game. The difficulty is hinged not in the encounter design but the gear progression of the players on the raid. It doesnt matter if it comes out too slow or too fast, its just more of the same old stuff we've seen for the past few years.

So heres the point of this post. It doesnt matter if stuff comes out too fast, because you arent missing anything. The next expansion is going to cut the gear gap between the hardcores, less-hardcores, and casuals. If experiencing the content is important to you then you will gladly spend the time putting together raids for it no matter how time consuming the process may be. If loot is your motivator then playing catch up isn't that big of a deal.

Edited, Oct 14th 2009 5:16pm by Greeve
Another thought.
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:37 PM Rating: Good
23 posts
What about implementing a system where you could buy NPC's (a tank, dps and healers) to run you through 5 mans or heroics for players that do not like Pugs or their guild simply doesn't raid. I could see that happening. I would actually like that if it was brought into the game.
Another thought.
# Oct 14 2009 at 9:03 PM Rating: Good
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1,882 posts
Setted wrote:
What about implementing a system where you could buy NPC's (a tank, dps and healers) to run you through 5 mans or heroics for players that do not like Pugs or their guild simply doesn't raid. I could see that happening. I would actually like that if it was brought into the game.


It would be the end of social interaction in this game as you know it.

Guild Wars implemented a system called "Heros" that allowed you to gear and "enchant" and spec your own NPCs. When that happened players stopped grouping altogether and played solely by themselves. The NPCs were so intuitive that it was 9 times out of 10 simply easier to go it alone. Activity in my guild of 60 or so (100 was max size) went from daily interaction to us having to force people to play together once a week just to keep some interaction going between guild members.

The idea is fantastic, but the side effects aren't worth it.

Anyway, they plan on having cross-realm grouping for instances. This should eliminate the problem of finding people.
Another thought.
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:47 PM Rating: Decent
Like Guild Wars does?

Another thought.
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:54 PM Rating: Good
23 posts
I have no clue, I've never played it. Have you tried it though?
too fast?
# Oct 14 2009 at 1:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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6,678 posts
Funny, I'm not even playing any more because the progression of stuff to do was too slow. There wasn't enough released with Lich King launch, and they are *maybe* starting to catch up with that void a little, albeit not much. So far, they have added, um, two raid zones. By this time during Burning Crusade, there would have been four.


What's critically different about this expansion versus the last one is the lack of barriers to accessing the content. Players have this misguided notion that if something is in the game, they immediately have every right to knock on the door and enter. Sure, your guild might be barely able to kill Kel'thuzad, but hey! -- let's go into Icecrown as soon as it opens. We should be able to take Arthas!

My guild, historically, has been one dungeon behind the front of the curve. We were entering BWL when AQ came out, and then AQ when Naxx arrived. We just received zone access to each of the BC dungeons shortly before they took the keying processes away from each of them -- SSC, Hyjal, BT. I have no misguided notions about me or my guild outstepping our boundaries. However, most players do not have this sense of their capabilities. They don't want to -peat and repeat a dungeon five times before moving to the next one if there is a next one. Simply put, there are many WoW players out there who do not understand how endgame MMO material works. I realize that Blizzard is redefining a lot of what has been classic mentality of MMOs, and so many of the things that have been considered standard as a relic of the past are no longer valid. Nonetheless, there are some things that still hold true because either Blizzard can't or hasn't abolished them, and these nuances are violated by players at every turn. To Blizzard's credit, they have tried to interpret the player base and cater to their needs rather than imposing the other way around, but it's left a lot of people who understood the old system upset.


No, Blizzard's not rushing content. The only content they have rushed was the release of Lich King itself. It should have come with the Argent Tournament (which should be easier than Ulduar,) and there should have been another raid instance on the horizon -- maybe something out in Zul'drak -- before we think about Icecrown...unless IC is not the ultimate for WotLK raiding. If Cataclysm isn't out for another ~14 months and Icecrown arrives this year, that's a long time to hold out without anything new to do.
____________________________
Only the exceptions can be exceptional.
too fast?
# Oct 14 2009 at 8:32 PM Rating: Decent
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267 posts
I only started playing after the release of BC but I agree with the content of this post. For most of the time I've played I've been the GM of a levelling guild so the majority of my raiding experience has come from PUGs.
WOTLK has made it a lot easier for players like me to see raid content but I don't think the removal of things like attunement is a good thing. As someone who didn't have a raiding guild to 'gear me up' etc the process of getting Kara keyed really prepared me for kara. After running several level 70 instances to get my key I was not only geared for it, I'd also had time to learn to play my class in a group. Now we have a situation where people expect to be raiding naxx and even ulduar the day the reach level 80. This inevitably means that if you try to PUG a raid like that you're either going to have to accept or turn away several people who truly aren't ready for it in either gear or experience.
I guess the argument was that attunement etc was too fiddly or time consuming and presented too much of a barrier for casual players but as a casual raider I thought it filled an important role. It's not as if finding people to PUG a 5 man instance is harder than finding people to PUG the raid you're trying to get attuned for anyway.
I like the idea of a raid in zul drak also. I'd always assumed there would be a raid there since there's this huge building near gundrak which looks like it should be a raid entrance.
New WoW Content Leaving Casual Players Behind?
# Oct 14 2009 at 1:54 PM Rating: Good
I do not have a problem with the new content, I just like playing the game. I do have a problem with guilds that invite you to join and then ignores you. I had a guild leader that did not really want to take me on a raid because I did not know the procedure. If the guild will not invite you to go on a raid then how are you going to learn. That is the problem with most of the raiding guilds.

I even have a hard time getting the guild to assist me on the 5-man instances.

My solution is just do the quest you can solo and go on. I have no problem starting a new character and playing the lowbie. Playing the lowbie sometimes is a lot more fun.

I am looking forward to the new expansion.
As I said years ago....
# Oct 14 2009 at 1:21 PM Rating: Decent
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132 posts
Years ago I reviewed WoW for a site, and the one point I drove home was this - if you are someone that is hard-core into end game content, but you have a life, this is not the game for you.

Seriously. The hardcore raiding guilds are filled with people that have no lives at all. Also no significant other, unless that person is also hard core and plays. The high end guilds raid CONSTANTLY, and demand your presence.

Unfortunately these people are the ones that I feel ruin the game. They demand harder and harder challenges because they calculate everything to the smallest fraction. "Perfect" builds are demanded for every class, no variance allowed. Then they complain that the game is too easy for them, and they want harder content.

This is what we call the "vocal minority," and Bliz has catered to them for far too long.

As I said years ago....
# Oct 14 2009 at 1:42 PM Rating: Good
Yngvie wrote:
Years ago I reviewed WoW for a site, and the one point I drove home was this - if you are someone that is hard-core into end game content, but you have a life, this is not the game for you.

Seriously. The hardcore raiding guilds are filled with people that have no lives at all. Also no significant other, unless that person is also hard core and plays. The high end guilds raid CONSTANTLY, and demand your presence.

Unfortunately these people are the ones that I feel ruin the game. They demand harder and harder challenges because they calculate everything to the smallest fraction. "Perfect" builds are demanded for every class, no variance allowed. Then they complain that the game is too easy for them, and they want harder content.

This is what we call the "vocal minority," and Bliz has catered to them for far too long.



You apparently haven't played at all this expansion. Very few 'hardcore' raiding guilds have to raid that often (most raid 3-4 nights a week, where my fairly casual guild raids 3 nights a week). The content is very clearable and quickly, especially in the normal mode. Maybe the hardmode content is too hard for casual guilds (which I would expect, especially for ones that don't min-max their players), but really there is little reason that people can't clear pretty much all of the normal-mode content in the game. Naxx/Sarth/Malygos/ToC/Ony are all very very clearable in a single night, many taking less than 30 minutes - if that is too hardcore for you to get 10 people to play together then maybe you should play guildwars or something.

Most of this expansion has been fairly catered to the casual and to the hardcore. Unfortunately the only issue is that it cuts out the people in the middle of the road who would need a medium setting, where the normal is way too easy, and the hard-mode is too hard for many guilds who don't have the highest tiers of players.

Edited, Oct 14th 2009 4:50pm by Anobix
As I said years ago....
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
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132 posts
I welcome and can handle disagreement, but you can take your condescending bullsh*t and shove it up your ***. You could have made the same points and had an adult discussion, but no.... you have to be rude.



Edited, Oct 14th 2009 4:08pm by Yngvie
As I said years ago....
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:39 PM Rating: Good
Yngvie wrote:
I welcome and can handle disagreement, but you can take your condescending bullsh*t and shove it up your ***. You could have made the same points and had an adult discussion, but no.... you have to be rude.



Edited, Oct 14th 2009 4:08pm by Yngvie



If you want to take that tone, you shouldn't look down upon people in the hardcore guilds when you don't have any information to base your opinion of them. You come out saying that you can't have a life, or a significant other if you want to be doing end-game raiding, which couldn't be further from the truth.

The game has become significantly easier over the years to get into, it doesn't take 10 days to hit level 60, it takes a bit more than half that to hit 80 (if that long, with mounts at 20, heirloom items, etc). Raiding has become the same way, where they removed a lot of RNG away from gear through the emblem/badge system, gear tokens for mulitple classes, and instances that can be cleared in well under one night, if not two at most. And not only that, but last patch Blizzard implemented the 'extend lockout period' where it can give any guild (casual or hardcore) an effective 'save game' to carry over their week's amount of work into the next week so they do not have the start at the beginning again, so for the casuals they can clear an instance in 3 nights spread over 3 weeks; or a hardcore guild who can work on a last-boss hardmode.

I apologize for the condescending post previously, it wasn't specifically targeted at you, Yngvie, more of the 'you' as in anyone.

Edited, Oct 14th 2009 4:45pm by Anobix
As I said years ago....
# Oct 14 2009 at 2:02 PM Rating: Decent
***
1,331 posts
@Anobix

"Years ago..." Should give you the idea about what they are talking about.
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