These little money cones sell for up to 50-60 a stack on my server. Hello fortune!
Edited, Sep 7th 2008 6:42pm by Failzor
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Terocone, oh how I love thee!Follow
Professor Failzor wrote:
These little money cones sell for up to 50-60 a stack on my server. Hello fortune!
Yeah, they're an ingredient in Elixir of Draenic Wisdom which is loved by healers and I imagine any caster who wants bigger intellect (and spirit).
"the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked and denounce the pacifists for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same way in any country."
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hermann Goering, April 1946.
Hunters use DW them when they can't get Mageblood.
But Terocones are so hard to find, or they're just heavily farmed. I gave up farming them myself. An hour of flying all over Terrokar gave me 5. Killing every bog giant I could find in Zangarmarsh gave me 3. I got 3 more in SMV.
Huge waste of time.
But Terocones are so hard to find, or they're just heavily farmed. I gave up farming them myself. An hour of flying all over Terrokar gave me 5. Killing every bog giant I could find in Zangarmarsh gave me 3. I got 3 more in SMV.
Huge waste of time.
cynyck wrote:
Professor Failzor wrote:
These little money cones sell for up to 50-60 a stack on my server. Hello fortune!
Yeah, they're an ingredient in Elixir of Draenic Wisdom which is loved by healers and I imagine any caster who wants bigger intellect (and spirit).
I don't know about your realm. But in my realm it's more profitable to sell the herb than to sell the Elixir of Draenic Wisdom.
Just saying, if you're turning the herbs into elixirs, you might want to check if you can get more cash by not turning them (unless you're trying to make a discovery).
I don't turn them into elixirs, I just sell them. I also don't look specifically for them, I just fly by the marked nodes every once and a while and check if there is one there.
I love them too!
When I'm doing skettis dailies in terrokar, I'll fly there on my regular speed mount in hopes of finding a few. The elite giant trees in sketis can also be herbed and drop them once in a while(including many other herbs).
When I'm doing skettis dailies in terrokar, I'll fly there on my regular speed mount in hopes of finding a few. The elite giant trees in sketis can also be herbed and drop them once in a while(including many other herbs).
Scholar
48 posts
They are indeed good but on my server Nightmare Vine sells for more (Which is only 45g ish, Terocone is generally about 35g). Plus with the new dailies in Hellfire it's easy to get without going out of the way for it.
#8REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 09 2008 at 7:55 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) New dailies in Hellfire? You're talking the two above Thrall or are there more new ones?
Scholar
48 posts
Yeah the 2 by Thrallmar, I couldn't remember the name of the Throne when I posted. And I guess they're not really new either these days.
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If it isn't bad enough that the damned pharmers depriving real tradeskillers of mats and selling them at obscene prices, they also take away the whole joy of tradeskilling because the mats are worth more then the finish products in all but a few cases, thus making it pointless to even make stuff to sell.
You're trying to tell us that farmers, who by farming are continuously upkeeping the supply of these herbs, are the reason the finish product is worth less than the herbs?
You have no idea on how economy actually works, do you?
Too many alchemists, not enough farmers.
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 10 2008 at 2:04 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Yes - pharmers deprive tradeskillers of their natural supplies - terocones are semi-rare so a trader is going to have to work to find them, however, since pharmers are out there working the supply as well, this deprives the actual traders of them - under normal circumstances he'll find X but now he can only find X-pharmers.
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Yes - pharmers deprive tradeskillers of their natural supplies - terocones are semi-rare so a trader is going to have to work to find them, however, since pharmers are out there working the supply as well, this deprives the actual traders of them - under normal circumstances he'll find X but now he can only find X-pharmers.
Since the pharmers create an artificial shortage in the field by thier pharming, this increases demand and thus drives up the price in the AH.
Pharmers are also to blame for the response to "What trade skill should I take" being "None - take two gathering skills" due to the artificial rarity of materials in the field and artificially inflated costs of materials in the AH adding unecisary time and expense to the process of leveling tradeskills.
Since the pharmers create an artificial shortage in the field by thier pharming, this increases demand and thus drives up the price in the AH.
Pharmers are also to blame for the response to "What trade skill should I take" being "None - take two gathering skills" due to the artificial rarity of materials in the field and artificially inflated costs of materials in the AH adding unecisary time and expense to the process of leveling tradeskills.
Again, I'll re-iterate. If the price of raw materials is higher than the price of finished goods, there is a bigger demand for the raw materials than the finished goods. That doesn't mean there are too many people picking up the mats. It means there are too many people who are using said mats.
The only way your theory of aritificial rarity works is if said "pharmers" are stockpiling herbs to keep prices up. If this is actually happening, then you can't be upset at the people picking up the herbs. You're upset at people stockpiling mats(which could be anyone like, oh, people preparing to fund the new profession?).
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As such, pharmers contribute nothing to tradeskills while raising the cost, difficulty and time required.
You're blinded by selfishness. Without "pharmers", where would the herbs on the market come from? How could certain people powerlevel alchemy(for example) without picking up herbalism at the same time? They couldn't.
#13REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 12 2008 at 10:11 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) And that's bad how?
Simple economics. Supply and Demand.
More supply and less demand reduce the price.
- If people massively stop needing herbs the price will drop.
- If people massively farm the herb nodes and make the herbs more abundant the price will drop.
Less supply and more demand increase the price.
- The less competitors at the herb market the higher you can set the price.
- The more people with alchemy and inscription and the higher the demand of inscription/alchemy products the higher the prices.
That is why the best profit is in providing supply of whatever you find in shortage. Even old world herbs like Purple Lotus and Briarthorn can outprice Terocone and Nightmare Vine if they're in shortage.
More supply and less demand reduce the price.
- If people massively stop needing herbs the price will drop.
- If people massively farm the herb nodes and make the herbs more abundant the price will drop.
Less supply and more demand increase the price.
- The less competitors at the herb market the higher you can set the price.
- The more people with alchemy and inscription and the higher the demand of inscription/alchemy products the higher the prices.
That is why the best profit is in providing supply of whatever you find in shortage. Even old world herbs like Purple Lotus and Briarthorn can outprice Terocone and Nightmare Vine if they're in shortage.
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Says the pharmer charging peeps an arm and a leg for the mats they need to skill up on.
I have herbalism/Alchemy on my main and mining/engineering on my second race to 70. Just because I encourage duel gathering professions for other people looking solely to make gold, it doesn't mean I'm doing anything wrong. In the end, they help me by supplying me with mats I don't feel like taking the time to go get myself.
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Without the pharmers there'd be less competition in the field and peeps could easily harvest the herbs they needed.
Harvesting mats isn't that hard already. Sure, you'll miss out on some of the more valuable herbs at 70, but for the most part the road to lvling alchemy isn't very hard.
Again though, your perception of "pharmers" is skewed. Without them, the opportunity cost of leveling alchemy would be much, much higher than it is now. As the supply of herbs on the market would drop to 0, the price would skyrocket. Crafters would be subject to either leveling their profession or making much more gold by selling the raw materials.
That's how you have to look at it. Without "pharmers" herbs would be much more pricey and there would be much less of them around. Sure, there might be a few more in the fields and forests(though debatable, since all the "pharmers" would pick up gathering/crafting professions themselves AND the fact that they don't just grow wild and more numerous if nobody picks them... there is the problem of respawn time), but there would be a lot less in the AH and open market.
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And that's bad how?
According to you, a glut of tradeskillers is what drives up the cost of mats and down the cost of finished goods, therefore it would be a good thing having no power levelers ruining the market - you want the skill, you earn it.
According to you, a glut of tradeskillers is what drives up the cost of mats and down the cost of finished goods, therefore it would be a good thing having no power levelers ruining the market - you want the skill, you earn it.
What makes you think the powerlevelers haven't earned their right to do so? They are buying herbs on an open and free market with gold they have obtained through playing the game(with the exception of RMT). Whether they gather enough money through doing dailies or outright pick up the herbs themselves, it makes no difference. They aren't some thieves in the night that are taking away your opportunities. They worked for their gold and had the same chances you do while playing the game.
Again, let me re-iterate one last time. If the prices are higher for raw materials than they are for finished goods, there is more demand for the mats than the finished goods. This doesn't mean powerlevelers are to blame any more than the person who picks up his/her own mats. Both are using the same amount and making the decision to use said mats rather than selling them. Powerlevelers are no more at fault than you. The fact that prices remain high for raw materials on your server means there are NOT enough "pharmers". Increased supply of materials will eventually drive down the costs. As it stands, "pharmers" are only selling at the best price they can for the low supply. Individuals should not be blamed for taking part in the market. The market is healthy and working as it should.
baveux wrote:
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Says the pharmer charging peeps an arm and a leg for the mats they need to skill up on.
I have herbalism/Alchemy on my main and mining/engineering on my second race to 70. Just because I encourage duel gathering professions for other people looking solely to make gold, it doesn't mean I'm doing anything wrong. In the end, they help me by supplying me with mats I don't feel like taking the time to go get myself.
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Without the pharmers there'd be less competition in the field and peeps could easily harvest the herbs they needed.
Harvesting mats isn't that hard already. Sure, you'll miss out on some of the more valuable herbs at 70, but for the most part the road to lvling alchemy isn't very hard.
Again though, your perception of "pharmers" is skewed. Without them, the opportunity cost of leveling alchemy would be much, much higher than it is now. As the supply of herbs on the market would drop to 0, the price would skyrocket. Crafters would be subject to either leveling their profession or making much more gold by selling the raw materials.
That's how you have to look at it. Without "pharmers" herbs would be much more pricey and there would be much less of them around. Sure, there might be a few more in the fields and forests(though debatable, since all the "pharmers" would pick up gathering/crafting professions themselves AND the fact that they don't just grow wild and more numerous if nobody picks them... there is the problem of respawn time), but there would be a lot less in the AH and open market.
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And that's bad how?
According to you, a glut of tradeskillers is what drives up the cost of mats and down the cost of finished goods, therefore it would be a good thing having no power levelers ruining the market - you want the skill, you earn it.
According to you, a glut of tradeskillers is what drives up the cost of mats and down the cost of finished goods, therefore it would be a good thing having no power levelers ruining the market - you want the skill, you earn it.
What makes you think the powerlevelers haven't earned their right to do so? They are buying herbs on an open and free market with gold they have obtained through playing the game(with the exception of RMT). Whether they gather enough money through doing dailies or outright pick up the herbs themselves, it makes no difference. They aren't some thieves in the night that are taking away your opportunities. They worked for their gold and had the same chances you do while playing the game.
Again, let me re-iterate one last time. If the prices are higher for raw materials than they are for finished goods, there is more demand for the mats than the finished goods. This doesn't mean powerlevelers are to blame any more than the person who picks up his/her own mats. Both are using the same amount and making the decision to use said mats rather than selling them. Powerlevelers are no more at fault than you. The fact that prices remain high for raw materials on your server means there are NOT enough "pharmers". Increased supply of materials will eventually drive down the costs. As it stands, "pharmers" are only selling at the best price they can for the low supply. Individuals should not be blamed for taking part in the market. The market is healthy and working as it should.
Well, thinking about it there's a bit of a point in his favor.
Horde farmers and Alliance farmers compete for the nodes. The farmers of each faction may cause the prices to go higher for the opposing faction.
So you need the farmers to be in your faction. Makes sense, when a faction heavily outnumbers the other the prices are lower in the faction with more population.
It doesn't matter what the ratio is between the factions. The only ratio that matters is suppliers to crafters. And that is determined within the faction. If the population is 50-50 horde and alliance, and 70% of the herbalists on the server are horde, that means their faction's herbs will be selling at a lower price, because their herbalist/alchemist ratio is skewed in favor of supply. But that doesn't mean that market pressures won't drive more alliance into herbing.
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Well, thinking about it there's a bit of a point in his favor.
Horde farmers and Alliance farmers compete for the nodes. The farmers of each faction may cause the prices to go higher for the opposing faction.
So you need the farmers to be in your faction. Makes sense, when a faction heavily outnumbers the other the prices are lower in the faction with more population.
Horde farmers and Alliance farmers compete for the nodes. The farmers of each faction may cause the prices to go higher for the opposing faction.
So you need the farmers to be in your faction. Makes sense, when a faction heavily outnumbers the other the prices are lower in the faction with more population.
Kinda. It still depends on the ratio of farmers to crafters. Even if Alliance outnumber Horde 2:1, if the distribution of farmer to crafter is at the market equilibrium for Horde side, the prices won't be higher for the raw materials than the crafted ones. Same thing goes for Alliance.
The prices might differ anyways on both factions if inflation has affected the prices.
Prices are driven by what people are willing to pay. The dailies provide enough cash for people to pay more for mats.
Farming mats for money is good for some.
Two crafting profs to make toon do what it does better. I mean that is the point right, raid, instances, ect. This is why we farm and craft anyway, unless the craft in world of warcraft really means "the joy of making stuff", and I am pretty sure making pots is not all that exciting. Oh, discoveries, that is about making money too, to buy stuff for your toon.
That is all.
Farming mats for money is good for some.
Two crafting profs to make toon do what it does better. I mean that is the point right, raid, instances, ect. This is why we farm and craft anyway, unless the craft in world of warcraft really means "the joy of making stuff", and I am pretty sure making pots is not all that exciting. Oh, discoveries, that is about making money too, to buy stuff for your toon.
That is all.
Sweathog wrote:
Prices are driven by what people are willing to pay. The dailies provide enough cash for people to pay more for mats.
Assume it takes me 10 minutes to farm 5 terocone. If I can do an hour's worth of dailies and get 60 gold, or burn a couple of fishhooks and collect skullfish/darters/etc. and cash in a couple of partial stacks for 30 gold in a half-hour, how much is 10 minutes of my time worth? 10 gold. So how much am I going to be willing to pay for the terocone? 10 gold. And it's a fair deal for me.
I for one am always amazed at some of the crazy prices for things , but saying that it always gives me a chance to get the same product ? and sell at a lower price and still make a very good profit , so i for one like these prices.
For example my first character on a new server found that Small Eggs were selling at over 5g a stack ? DOH ? my new character was a BE so by level 10 i had 50g+ and some decent gear brought from the auction house.
I wonder sometimes why people complain so much about the prices , to me that always gives me a decent profit by undercutting them as i am assured that my product will sell fast , after all we are all looking to make gold and if nobody buys the overpriced stuff then it will drop in price in the end.
As i have several characters on my main realm i can easily swap characters and farm whatever i see is well overpriced.
Things like herbs are something i rarely farm for profit , it is something that i collect if i see it while farming other stuff that is easier to farm like motes or whatever i am near while questing , my guess is most farmers are doing the same thing , that is by far the better way to farm things as trying to find just one thing in a huge area is very much a time waster.
For example my first character on a new server found that Small Eggs were selling at over 5g a stack ? DOH ? my new character was a BE so by level 10 i had 50g+ and some decent gear brought from the auction house.
I wonder sometimes why people complain so much about the prices , to me that always gives me a decent profit by undercutting them as i am assured that my product will sell fast , after all we are all looking to make gold and if nobody buys the overpriced stuff then it will drop in price in the end.
As i have several characters on my main realm i can easily swap characters and farm whatever i see is well overpriced.
Things like herbs are something i rarely farm for profit , it is something that i collect if i see it while farming other stuff that is easier to farm like motes or whatever i am near while questing , my guess is most farmers are doing the same thing , that is by far the better way to farm things as trying to find just one thing in a huge area is very much a time waster.
I was saving a few stacks of these to level inscription with, but having read this post i decided maybe it was smarter to sell the Terocone and use Felweed instead. I have one alt with herb/alch but other than flasks for my main (and super mana pot mats for potion masters) I don't really need any of the herbs I gather.
That being said I rarely set out to farm a specific herb, I normally just do it either for the daily, if I have a small amount of time in game (so I can't settle to anything important) or if I need nightmare vine for flasks. I tend to manually fly over Terokar, rather than use the gryphon, and find quite a few Terocone on the way (plus the ones from the bird camps in SMV). So my nightmare vine trips tend to net me a nice amount of terocone for what I'd class as not a lot of work.
Maybe it's because I'm not looking, but they don't seem over-farmed on my server and they sell for a nice 40-45g per stack (no idea how this compares to elixirs as I cba to check, I just assume it's not worth making them.
That's the same in a lot of professions though, with the exception of crafted epics most items will cost more to make then you sell them for.
That being said I rarely set out to farm a specific herb, I normally just do it either for the daily, if I have a small amount of time in game (so I can't settle to anything important) or if I need nightmare vine for flasks. I tend to manually fly over Terokar, rather than use the gryphon, and find quite a few Terocone on the way (plus the ones from the bird camps in SMV). So my nightmare vine trips tend to net me a nice amount of terocone for what I'd class as not a lot of work.
Maybe it's because I'm not looking, but they don't seem over-farmed on my server and they sell for a nice 40-45g per stack (no idea how this compares to elixirs as I cba to check, I just assume it's not worth making them.
That's the same in a lot of professions though, with the exception of crafted epics most items will cost more to make then you sell them for.
On Ysondre Server, stacks of terocone hover around 20-30 gold. While Felweed is around 7-15 gold. I can have an alchemist make Draenic Wisdom pots and sell them for 60-90 gold a stack...
I think after farming the various areas for a few hours, killing the trees in Skettis I can farm 10 or so stacks of the various herbs and a ton of Primal Life. It just seems on Ysondre it's more profitable to just turn mats into product and sell it.
I think after farming the various areas for a few hours, killing the trees in Skettis I can farm 10 or so stacks of the various herbs and a ton of Primal Life. It just seems on Ysondre it's more profitable to just turn mats into product and sell it.
Terrokar gets farmed (*f*armed...) to bits because it's right outside Shatt and has better density of herbs than Nagrand and fewer "trash" herbs than Zangarmarsh. Terocone has a number of uses in alchemy, but none of them require so many terocone that you need a ton of them to skill up on. Skilling up is a one shot deal unless you're indecisive and drop a profession and wind up picking it up again later on. Once you've got that skillup, it's yours on that toon forever. The price of crafting materials, barring brand new crafting professions, has absolutely nothing to do with people skilling up and everything to do with the demand for consumables requiring those base materials on your realm.
It's easy to forget that if you're a casual/semi-casual WoW player, farming herbs to get your consumables made is a waste of time. Compared to doing your dailies (which can be done at a fairly consistent speed) and buying the materials you need, farming those materials is hit-and-miss and unreliable. Who says that if you are an herbalist you're doing something wrong...or worthy of criticism...if you don't take up alchemy and use all of your herbs to make consumables? Here's a tip if you're finding that a zone is overcamped for a particular base commodity: come back later or learn how to suck less. (Harsh, I know, but it's often true...sometimes a zone really is picked dry. Other times, people are just brain dead and employ the most gawd-awful search methods for nodes that it's almost embarrassing to have the same gathering profession as them.)
I'm not a *f*armer, but I've got two bank tabs brimming with herbs getting ready for Inscription. Catch me if you can.
It's easy to forget that if you're a casual/semi-casual WoW player, farming herbs to get your consumables made is a waste of time. Compared to doing your dailies (which can be done at a fairly consistent speed) and buying the materials you need, farming those materials is hit-and-miss and unreliable. Who says that if you are an herbalist you're doing something wrong...or worthy of criticism...if you don't take up alchemy and use all of your herbs to make consumables? Here's a tip if you're finding that a zone is overcamped for a particular base commodity: come back later or learn how to suck less. (Harsh, I know, but it's often true...sometimes a zone really is picked dry. Other times, people are just brain dead and employ the most gawd-awful search methods for nodes that it's almost embarrassing to have the same gathering profession as them.)
I'm not a *f*armer, but I've got two bank tabs brimming with herbs getting ready for Inscription. Catch me if you can.
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Assume it takes me 10 minutes to farm 5 terocone. If I can do an hour's worth of dailies and get 60 gold, or burn a couple of fishhooks and collect skullfish/darters/etc. and cash in a couple of partial stacks for 30 gold in a half-hour, how much is 10 minutes of my time worth? 10 gold. So how much am I going to be willing to pay for the terocone? 10 gold. And it's a fair deal for me.
Actually, if it takes you 10 minutes to farm 5 terocones then that means that a terocone is worth 2m of your time - if you can earn 10g in 10m the paying 10g for something that only takes 2m of your time means that you're paying 5x too much for it - you have to be able to earn 150g in 30m for 10g for a cone to be reasonable.
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It doesn't matter what the ratio is between the factions. The only ratio that matters is suppliers to crafters.
Incorrect - if there's twice as many ally pharmers as there are horde pharmers then the horde pharmers will get fewer items.
At this point many will note that since there's fewer horde alchies then it doesn't matter, but that's incorrect due to the fact that there's only a finite number of resource nodes in the zone.
Assuming all things equal between pharmers, send six team A pharmers and three team B pharmers into the zone at the same time to pharm the same type of resouce. Team A will actually bring in around 225% more resources then team B due to the fact that at any given moment all three members of team B and a random three members of team A will have a 50% chance to get any given resource, while three members of team A will have a 100% chance at any given moment due to no competition from team B.
In other words, if six resources spawn in the zone at the same time, then three of them will be a toss up between three members of team A and B while the other three will be fair game for the three free members ot team A.
As such, 3 automatically go to team A and 1.5 will be split between the two, resulting in team A getting 4.5 out of 6 and team B only getting 1.5 out of 6.
So the side with the greater number of pharmers will receive a disproportionately greater amount of resources.
Your math if flawed. You're placing 6 static herbs in the zone with alliance working together against the horde. Your calculations are consistent only with the number of herbs in the zone, rather than the number of people. Place 3 static herbs in the zone instead, and now horde get 1/3 chance at every herb and alliance gets 2/3(one horde per, 2 alliance per), which means 1 herb for horde and 2 for alliance; the same distribution as the number of people.
You have to compare rather that all 9 people are in equal and consistent competition and there is no collaboration between alliance or horde. This means that for every herb in the region, each player has a 1 in 9 chance of getting the herb. Using your numbers, alliance gets 2/3 and horde gets 1/3.... again the same distribution as the people. All farmers being equal, they get an equal amount of herbs at the end of the day.
Ah, but here is something I think we all missed. The distribution of price vs supply is not consistent. If there is only 1 herb up for sale, the price will be exponentially more than if there were 2. The farther away you get from supplying the demand(meaning not enough supply), the more the price increases. The change also works in terms of percentages, not amounts of people. So, 1 less farmer on alliance side with their higher population would change the price much less than 1 less farmer on horde side.
So, for this reason the price of herbs is not only factored by the distribution, but also by the population.(I think) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd venture to say that the distributions are equal(for herbalist and crafters) between horde and alliance(since both are free markets with prices working solely on supply/demand), but horde's smaller population means that prices are higher because the percent change in herbs is higher between normal market distribution and actual.
I'm confused. I'll think more about it later.
Edit:
I could be wrong, but he's not referring to the price being 10G per cone, rather 10G per 5 cones. The use of the word "the" in "the terocone" refers to the whole group, not just "a" cone. There isn't any plural form of "Terocone".
Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:50pm by baveux
Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:51pm by baveux
You have to compare rather that all 9 people are in equal and consistent competition and there is no collaboration between alliance or horde. This means that for every herb in the region, each player has a 1 in 9 chance of getting the herb. Using your numbers, alliance gets 2/3 and horde gets 1/3.... again the same distribution as the people. All farmers being equal, they get an equal amount of herbs at the end of the day.
Ah, but here is something I think we all missed. The distribution of price vs supply is not consistent. If there is only 1 herb up for sale, the price will be exponentially more than if there were 2. The farther away you get from supplying the demand(meaning not enough supply), the more the price increases. The change also works in terms of percentages, not amounts of people. So, 1 less farmer on alliance side with their higher population would change the price much less than 1 less farmer on horde side.
So, for this reason the price of herbs is not only factored by the distribution, but also by the population.(I think) I'm going out on a limb here, but I'd venture to say that the distributions are equal(for herbalist and crafters) between horde and alliance(since both are free markets with prices working solely on supply/demand), but horde's smaller population means that prices are higher because the percent change in herbs is higher between normal market distribution and actual.
I'm confused. I'll think more about it later.
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Actually, if it takes you 10 minutes to farm 5 terocones then that means that a terocone is worth 2m of your time - if you can earn 10g in 10m the paying 10g for something that only takes 2m of your time means that you're paying 5x too much for it - you have to be able to earn 150g in 30m for 10g for a cone to be reasonable.
I could be wrong, but he's not referring to the price being 10G per cone, rather 10G per 5 cones. The use of the word "the" in "the terocone" refers to the whole group, not just "a" cone. There isn't any plural form of "Terocone".
Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:50pm by baveux
Edited, Oct 2nd 2008 3:51pm by baveux
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