I'm a level 65 Balance druid with Herbalism (375) and Alchemy (357) as primary professions. I haven't bothered much in the past with trying to make a profit out of Alchemy. Both because I didn't need the money that much and because I figured I could sell the herbs if I didn't need anymore for levelling alchemy. And also, I'd use the products I made myself most of the time.
Of late I am putting a bit more work behind the money making with my professions. What I would really like, is to make a profit through Alchemy and not only by selling my herbs. But looking at the AH prices on my server, I must come to the conclusion it's nigh impossible. Almost every potion and Elixir I can make that are relevant to my skill level sell for less than the combined prices of their ingredients. Don't alchemists wanna make money? If you're not a herbalist too, then you actually lose money making potions and elixirs and such. And if you are a herbalist then you are better of selling the herbs then making potions with them.
So my question is, how do you make a profit with Alchemy. Can people list the potions/elixirs/etc. they make money off and maybe list what the seperate ingredients are going for and what the end-products are going for so I can see how much profit there's to be made. Of course I know things are different on every server, but I'm just curious.
Edit: I just checked some prices on AH. Primal Might used to be something I looked forward to making because I was told that was one of the money makers. The following example will show otherwise.
prices for primals:
Earth: 4G
Mana: 17G
Fire: 45G
Air: 32G
Water: 35G
------------
Total: 133G
And what are people asking for Primal Might? The first 11 entries (from about 7 sellers) are for under 130G :S
Edited, Apr 24th 2008 12:35am by Curois
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- Profit with Alchemy. How?
Profit with Alchemy. How?Follow
Alc is not a huge money maker, but there are a few things that can turn a small profit.
...Primal might is not something i deal with making, but if you farm your own mats and xmut it, thats making money....but again, not as much as the individual primals woudl sell for, and you have also spent your time and time=money of course.
personally, i only use Alc for elixirs and pots for myself and freinds.
there is one Xmute which is easy to do and will net you some 15+ gold per day.
Sporegore rep has the recipe for Xmute Primal earth to Primal water. Go buy a stack of primal earth at the AH for 60g-120g (server depending). Now you have 20 days worth of Xmutes. click the button each day and get primal water. my server pricing for primal water is anywhere from 20-30g. you have made back your investment in under a week, and have like 3 more weeks of pure profit.
thats the only money i ever make from Alc.
Also, you can specalize in Xmutes/pots/elixirs.
whatever you spec you will get extras. thoughs extra procs will net you free product, which = free gold.
My mage is Xmute spec, and gets proc's from time to time. Proc a primal might Xmute, and your really in the money. proc a earth to water Xmute and its an extra 20 gold.
My hunter is Elixir spec, he gets quite a few x2 while crafting.
i have little to zero experience with Pot spec.
in short. Xmute primal earth to water every day for zero effort and a small upfront investment,
see if pot/elixir/xmute spec nets you extra product to eek out some extra gold.
...Primal might is not something i deal with making, but if you farm your own mats and xmut it, thats making money....but again, not as much as the individual primals woudl sell for, and you have also spent your time and time=money of course.
personally, i only use Alc for elixirs and pots for myself and freinds.
there is one Xmute which is easy to do and will net you some 15+ gold per day.
Sporegore rep has the recipe for Xmute Primal earth to Primal water. Go buy a stack of primal earth at the AH for 60g-120g (server depending). Now you have 20 days worth of Xmutes. click the button each day and get primal water. my server pricing for primal water is anywhere from 20-30g. you have made back your investment in under a week, and have like 3 more weeks of pure profit.
thats the only money i ever make from Alc.
Also, you can specalize in Xmutes/pots/elixirs.
whatever you spec you will get extras. thoughs extra procs will net you free product, which = free gold.
My mage is Xmute spec, and gets proc's from time to time. Proc a primal might Xmute, and your really in the money. proc a earth to water Xmute and its an extra 20 gold.
My hunter is Elixir spec, he gets quite a few x2 while crafting.
i have little to zero experience with Pot spec.
in short. Xmute primal earth to water every day for zero effort and a small upfront investment,
see if pot/elixir/xmute spec nets you extra product to eek out some extra gold.
Depends on the server. I can do the following.
Purchase 4 Primal Earth - cost 12g total
Transmute 2 primal earth to water
Transmute the remaining primal earth and water (and a few gems) into an Earthstorm diamond.
Sell diamond for 125g.
Purchase 4 Primal Earth - cost 12g total
Transmute 2 primal earth to water
Transmute the remaining primal earth and water (and a few gems) into an Earthstorm diamond.
Sell diamond for 125g.
Grind out sporeggar rep either now while you can level off of it, or at 70 when its easier.
primal earth -> water is pretty easy to obtain and makes me 20G+ per day for absolutely no work. Occasionally I can find primal earth for 3G a piece, and primal water seems to skyrocket during the week when less people are playing.
As for pots/elixirs, it isn't an alchemist's fault the prices are low. These items are obtainable through various other methods than just alchemy. For some, its free money off a drop/quest. Also, elixir/pot masters can get procs off their mats, meaning it takes less mats to make more pots.
If you need money, get yourself to 70 and do old quests. Just doing these will net you thousands of gold(I'm not kidding) and are much easier to do at the level cap. Until then, don't worry about it too much. If you're really strapped for golds NOW, sell your herbs and level alchemy again when you have the time/gold.
primal earth -> water is pretty easy to obtain and makes me 20G+ per day for absolutely no work. Occasionally I can find primal earth for 3G a piece, and primal water seems to skyrocket during the week when less people are playing.
As for pots/elixirs, it isn't an alchemist's fault the prices are low. These items are obtainable through various other methods than just alchemy. For some, its free money off a drop/quest. Also, elixir/pot masters can get procs off their mats, meaning it takes less mats to make more pots.
If you need money, get yourself to 70 and do old quests. Just doing these will net you thousands of gold(I'm not kidding) and are much easier to do at the level cap. Until then, don't worry about it too much. If you're really strapped for golds NOW, sell your herbs and level alchemy again when you have the time/gold.
Thanks for the responses! Seeing the price difference between primal earth and primal water I already figured that getting revered with sporeggar should be one of my first goals. It's a bit of a pity that selling elixirs and pots that you make yourself doesn't really get you a profit, but I the comment about others sources for those, like questrewards made sense. I guess I should use Alchemy primarily for myself and my guildees and look for other money sources.
I wonder though if flasks make any difference to the story. I'd guess not because of the need of expensive lotuses, but maybe people here have more positive experiences with selling those?
I wonder though if flasks make any difference to the story. I'd guess not because of the need of expensive lotuses, but maybe people here have more positive experiences with selling those?
I'm continually astounded that people don't make money on alchemy. Don't take that the wrong way, it seems a good portion of people are in the same boat you're in.
How to make Money with Alchemy -- A mini guide
Step 1.) Get Auctioneer. Seriously, this add on will save you hundreds upon hundreds of gold over the course of the game. And this doesn't only apply to Alchemy. You can look for deals, buy them out, then re-list them at a decent price.
Step 2.) Go through each recipe and figure out if you can make a profit by selling it. Then check and make sure they sell decently. Healing and Mana Potion? You can sell 40 a day with ease, especially the high level ones. However, the undercutting that goes on with these can be kinda intense at times. Most days I can sell 40 Super Healing potions for a 15% profit. Sometimes the come back in the mail 24 hours later because someone wanted to take a 15% loss. It happens, get used to it.
Step 3.) Get Primal Earth to Primal Water. Its 20 free gold on my server for all of 45 seconds of work. I used to do Primal Mights, but I've found I make consistently more with Primal Waters.
Step 4.) Try for discoveries. I took me 500 some Super Mana potion to get my first one. But every time I make one, it 20 gold. And you can sell multiple a day. Most people will tell you you're going to take a loss trying for discoveries, but this isn't always true. If you're not going to make a profit, skip trying for a day. Tomorrow, the prices may be better.
Step 5.) Just because you have the herbs doesn't mean you should make potions. If the herbs you're harvesting sell for more than the potions, just sell the herbs.
It'll take some work and research to figure out how to make money, but once you get the hang of it you'll be set. Good luck.
How to make Money with Alchemy -- A mini guide
Step 1.) Get Auctioneer. Seriously, this add on will save you hundreds upon hundreds of gold over the course of the game. And this doesn't only apply to Alchemy. You can look for deals, buy them out, then re-list them at a decent price.
Step 2.) Go through each recipe and figure out if you can make a profit by selling it. Then check and make sure they sell decently. Healing and Mana Potion? You can sell 40 a day with ease, especially the high level ones. However, the undercutting that goes on with these can be kinda intense at times. Most days I can sell 40 Super Healing potions for a 15% profit. Sometimes the come back in the mail 24 hours later because someone wanted to take a 15% loss. It happens, get used to it.
Step 3.) Get Primal Earth to Primal Water. Its 20 free gold on my server for all of 45 seconds of work. I used to do Primal Mights, but I've found I make consistently more with Primal Waters.
Step 4.) Try for discoveries. I took me 500 some Super Mana potion to get my first one. But every time I make one, it 20 gold. And you can sell multiple a day. Most people will tell you you're going to take a loss trying for discoveries, but this isn't always true. If you're not going to make a profit, skip trying for a day. Tomorrow, the prices may be better.
Step 5.) Just because you have the herbs doesn't mean you should make potions. If the herbs you're harvesting sell for more than the potions, just sell the herbs.
It'll take some work and research to figure out how to make money, but once you get the hang of it you'll be set. Good luck.
Caia, your guide to making golds isn't about alchemy at all. Its about playing the markets.
Seriously, if you're waiting for herbs to be cheap and pots to be expensive before you buy/makeandsell, you really aren't doing much but playing the economy. You could evidently buy the same pots that are undercutting by a large margin(especially when you said some were being sold at a loss compared to the herbs) and re-sell when the prices go up. Same could be said about the herbs.
You will NOT make money off of crafting professions in wow unless there is a barrier to entry or the amount you can make per day is regulated. Even then, you won't stand to make very much usually. The fact that primal prices differ so much still astounds me.
My first discovery was for a flask. At the time, I had 5 lotuses on me which I had forgotten about, so I watched the market. Apparently on my server, there is only one guy who ever sold them during the week at 50G a piece. It was an easy 15G at the time. During the weekend however, the prices dropped to a break-even point.
So, I made my 5 flasks that week and listed up one at a time during the next week, undercutting the loner by 1 silver. Sold them all, and made 50G profit. Now however, the prices have dropped for many flasks as the price of lotuses dropped. The profit margin isn't as big anymore.
Flasks however, are based on discoveries so they really aren't worth looking into until you actually get the chance to make them. Even if one particular flask can be made at 500% profit, you definitely shouldn't lose out on a ton of pots trying for the discovery.
Seriously, if you're waiting for herbs to be cheap and pots to be expensive before you buy/makeandsell, you really aren't doing much but playing the economy. You could evidently buy the same pots that are undercutting by a large margin(especially when you said some were being sold at a loss compared to the herbs) and re-sell when the prices go up. Same could be said about the herbs.
You will NOT make money off of crafting professions in wow unless there is a barrier to entry or the amount you can make per day is regulated. Even then, you won't stand to make very much usually. The fact that primal prices differ so much still astounds me.
Quote:
I wonder though if flasks make any difference to the story. I'd guess not because of the need of expensive lotuses, but maybe people here have more positive experiences with selling those?
My first discovery was for a flask. At the time, I had 5 lotuses on me which I had forgotten about, so I watched the market. Apparently on my server, there is only one guy who ever sold them during the week at 50G a piece. It was an easy 15G at the time. During the weekend however, the prices dropped to a break-even point.
So, I made my 5 flasks that week and listed up one at a time during the next week, undercutting the loner by 1 silver. Sold them all, and made 50G profit. Now however, the prices have dropped for many flasks as the price of lotuses dropped. The profit margin isn't as big anymore.
Flasks however, are based on discoveries so they really aren't worth looking into until you actually get the chance to make them. Even if one particular flask can be made at 500% profit, you definitely shouldn't lose out on a ton of pots trying for the discovery.
Buy herbs cheap. Use Alchemy to create a potion. Sell said potion for more than you bought the herbs for. Is it playing the market? I suppose. Does it use Alchemy? Yes. Profit using alchemy.
Yes. But, you can usually find the herbs cheaper than the potions. If you were to buy potions and simply re-list them you wouldn't make as much than if you started with the herbs to begin with. Sure, I could re-list those herbs at a higher price, but again I can generally make potions that give me more profit.
That'll depend entirely on the server really. I make make very sure not to flood the market with flasks. It takes to long for the market to recover and people seem more than willing to list at the going price, even if it is 15G lower than last week. Even when it happens, I stop making it and go on to more profitable things.
1.) You shouldn't losing money at all on trying to make discoveries. It takes patience. If you want, you can throw all the cash you have at it. Generally a bad idea. Make 40 Super Mana Potions per day. You ought to have one within a week, maybe two.
2.) At 500% markeup from the base cost of herbs, you're not willing to lose some cash over it? Really?! Lemme toss out ome number for ya. 40 Dreaming glory for 40G. 20 Felweed for 10G. 50G spent. Make 20 Super Mana Potions. Sell them for 2G each. That's 40G that you get back. (Yes, there's Vials that cost cash too, but you'll get the idea without the added work.) So let's call that a 10G loss for every batch of Super Mana Potions I do.
In order to make a discovery, let's say I need to do 20 such sets of Super mana potions. (In otherwords, I'm making 400 total.) 20 * 10G loss is a 200G loss for one discovery.
So, I've lost 200G BUT I have a discovery. Now, let's say I can make said discovery using 20G. I get 500% profit with each one I make. That's 120G. So if I make two, I've already not only broke even but have 40G profit.
If something makes 500% profit, I would be willing to lose a LOT of cash -- thousands of gold -- in order to get that. I'd make it up within weeks.
Quote:
Seriously, if you're waiting for herbs to be cheap and pots to be expensive before you buy/makeandsell, you really aren't doing much but playing the economy. You could evidently buy the same pots that are undercutting by a large margin(especially when you said some were being sold at a loss compared to the herbs) and re-sell when the prices go up. Same could be said about the herbs.
Yes. But, you can usually find the herbs cheaper than the potions. If you were to buy potions and simply re-list them you wouldn't make as much than if you started with the herbs to begin with. Sure, I could re-list those herbs at a higher price, but again I can generally make potions that give me more profit.
Quote:
So, I made my 5 flasks that week and listed up one at a time during the next week, undercutting the loner by 1 silver. Sold them all, and made 50G profit. Now however, the prices have dropped for many flasks as the price of lotuses dropped. The profit margin isn't as big anymore.
That'll depend entirely on the server really. I make make very sure not to flood the market with flasks. It takes to long for the market to recover and people seem more than willing to list at the going price, even if it is 15G lower than last week. Even when it happens, I stop making it and go on to more profitable things.
Quote:
Flasks however, are based on discoveries so they really aren't worth looking into until you actually get the chance to make them. Even if one particular flask can be made at 500% profit, you definitely shouldn't lose out on a ton of pots trying for the discovery.
1.) You shouldn't losing money at all on trying to make discoveries. It takes patience. If you want, you can throw all the cash you have at it. Generally a bad idea. Make 40 Super Mana Potions per day. You ought to have one within a week, maybe two.
2.) At 500% markeup from the base cost of herbs, you're not willing to lose some cash over it? Really?! Lemme toss out ome number for ya. 40 Dreaming glory for 40G. 20 Felweed for 10G. 50G spent. Make 20 Super Mana Potions. Sell them for 2G each. That's 40G that you get back. (Yes, there's Vials that cost cash too, but you'll get the idea without the added work.) So let's call that a 10G loss for every batch of Super Mana Potions I do.
In order to make a discovery, let's say I need to do 20 such sets of Super mana potions. (In otherwords, I'm making 400 total.) 20 * 10G loss is a 200G loss for one discovery.
So, I've lost 200G BUT I have a discovery. Now, let's say I can make said discovery using 20G. I get 500% profit with each one I make. That's 120G. So if I make two, I've already not only broke even but have 40G profit.
If something makes 500% profit, I would be willing to lose a LOT of cash -- thousands of gold -- in order to get that. I'd make it up within weeks.
While you are in Zangarmarsh getting Sporeggar to Revered...
Kill lots of Bog Lords and related creatures.
Herbalize the corpses.
Make lots of Super Mana Potions and various high level elixirs.
I made quite a bit of gold that way.
Kill lots of Bog Lords and related creatures.
Herbalize the corpses.
Make lots of Super Mana Potions and various high level elixirs.
I made quite a bit of gold that way.
Curois wrote:
So my question is, how do you make a profit with Alchemy.
This depends on your server's prices.
My biggest money makers are:
- transmute Earthstorm Diamond
- transmute Primal Earth -> Water
- Adept's Elixir
Almost all other products, including flasks, will usually result in a loss of money or break-even at best. (On my server, that is.)
Other option is to sell a transmute. In Trade Channel you'll see some people looking for an alchemist to transmute their mats. Mostly that's for a Primal Might, Earthstorm Diamond or Skyfire Diamond.
What I've noticed that no one has mentioned is timing is everything. You need to know when to put Super Mana Pots, or those Elixirs of Mastery up on the AH.
RAID TIME! Everyone in raids goes through the AH to get the pots or elixirs they need. A really good time would be around Tuesday when the raid resets (I believe that's the day - at least seems to be on our server), anywho, you'll find a lot of people are willing to pay a lot for these things for raids.
Check the AH when you know that the raids are resetting and see how much items are then.
RAID TIME! Everyone in raids goes through the AH to get the pots or elixirs they need. A really good time would be around Tuesday when the raid resets (I believe that's the day - at least seems to be on our server), anywho, you'll find a lot of people are willing to pay a lot for these things for raids.
Check the AH when you know that the raids are resetting and see how much items are then.
Potions
Depending on raid progression on your server there may be strong demand for Destruction and Haste Potions. Any guilds on Brutallus will go through a silly amount of those to meet the DPS demands of the fight. It helps if you are a potion master as you may get about 20% extra potions out of the herbs and vials used.
Stay away from Major Protection potions. There was a market for the predecessor versions in WoW 1.x (many fortunes were made on fire prot pots) but in WoW 2.x raiders use Cauldrons which completely remove the need for prot pots.
If the market for Super Heal and Super Mana is saturated then look into Injectors. If you can get an engineer to craft these for you then you may find they command a decent premium. Where possible try to get a direct supply deals set up with your clients though as the AH listing fee is brutal (6g).
Some potions are highly useful in PvP or required for quests. Keeping a few of those (stack size 1, maybe 2-3 auctions) up at all times can be a good earner over a longer time period.
Elixirs
Elixir of Shadow Power. There's no shortage of warlocks who want their dread steed at level 60 and will pay a premium for these. Always keep 2 of these on the auction house (prior to 2.2 patch it was 10, but Blizzard reduced the requirement).
Major Strength. These are used for 3 blacksmithing items which are popular with warriors and also for the Executioner enchant. Keeping a couple of these on the auction house (stack size 2, 3 or 4) can make very good money.
Flasks
Flasks also typically get used by raiders, with Flask of Pure Death and Flask of Relentless Assault being the best sellers in my experience. Flask of Fortification is decent, but there are far more DPS than tanks out there and the tanks are far more likely to get a 'free' flask from their guild bank.
Transmute
While Earth to Water is probably the best known low end 'for profit' transmute don't forget about Earth to Life. Following the 2.4 patch and new badge vendor gear many servers have seen an increased demand for Primal Life, driving the value of Life above the value of Water. Transmute Water to Shadow may also be profitable at times, mainly driven by guilds reaching Mother in BT.
Primal Might recently peaked on my server (50g or higher profit margin) but is often sold at or below component cost by transmute masters. As a vendor recipe with no rep requirement it's easily accessible to trade skill alts so pretty much everybody can make it.
Personally I typically use my transmute exclusively for Skyfire Diamonds as it not only has a margin of 80g to 120g but also any mastery proc adds an instant 200g profit.
A parting note on the cost of materials and alchemy products: watch the auction house every day for a few weeks and you'll get a feeling for what time of day and which week day there is high demand or high supply. On my server there is over-abundance of supply on Saturdays (prices low, many auctions listed) and demand peaks on Sunday afternoon and Wednesday evening (major raid guilds buy out everything at any price). Getting a feeling for these trends will save you a lot on materials cost and failed auction fees as well as ensure your auctions sell at premium prices.
Depending on raid progression on your server there may be strong demand for Destruction and Haste Potions. Any guilds on Brutallus will go through a silly amount of those to meet the DPS demands of the fight. It helps if you are a potion master as you may get about 20% extra potions out of the herbs and vials used.
Stay away from Major Protection potions. There was a market for the predecessor versions in WoW 1.x (many fortunes were made on fire prot pots) but in WoW 2.x raiders use Cauldrons which completely remove the need for prot pots.
If the market for Super Heal and Super Mana is saturated then look into Injectors. If you can get an engineer to craft these for you then you may find they command a decent premium. Where possible try to get a direct supply deals set up with your clients though as the AH listing fee is brutal (6g).
Some potions are highly useful in PvP or required for quests. Keeping a few of those (stack size 1, maybe 2-3 auctions) up at all times can be a good earner over a longer time period.
Elixirs
Elixir of Shadow Power. There's no shortage of warlocks who want their dread steed at level 60 and will pay a premium for these. Always keep 2 of these on the auction house (prior to 2.2 patch it was 10, but Blizzard reduced the requirement).
Major Strength. These are used for 3 blacksmithing items which are popular with warriors and also for the Executioner enchant. Keeping a couple of these on the auction house (stack size 2, 3 or 4) can make very good money.
Flasks
Flasks also typically get used by raiders, with Flask of Pure Death and Flask of Relentless Assault being the best sellers in my experience. Flask of Fortification is decent, but there are far more DPS than tanks out there and the tanks are far more likely to get a 'free' flask from their guild bank.
Transmute
While Earth to Water is probably the best known low end 'for profit' transmute don't forget about Earth to Life. Following the 2.4 patch and new badge vendor gear many servers have seen an increased demand for Primal Life, driving the value of Life above the value of Water. Transmute Water to Shadow may also be profitable at times, mainly driven by guilds reaching Mother in BT.
Primal Might recently peaked on my server (50g or higher profit margin) but is often sold at or below component cost by transmute masters. As a vendor recipe with no rep requirement it's easily accessible to trade skill alts so pretty much everybody can make it.
Personally I typically use my transmute exclusively for Skyfire Diamonds as it not only has a margin of 80g to 120g but also any mastery proc adds an instant 200g profit.
A parting note on the cost of materials and alchemy products: watch the auction house every day for a few weeks and you'll get a feeling for what time of day and which week day there is high demand or high supply. On my server there is over-abundance of supply on Saturdays (prices low, many auctions listed) and demand peaks on Sunday afternoon and Wednesday evening (major raid guilds buy out everything at any price). Getting a feeling for these trends will save you a lot on materials cost and failed auction fees as well as ensure your auctions sell at premium prices.
xNocturnalSunx wrote:
What I've noticed that no one has mentioned is timing is everything. You need to know when to put Super Mana Pots, or those Elixirs of Mastery up on the AH.
RAID TIME! Everyone in raids goes through the AH to get the pots or elixirs they need. A really good time would be around Tuesday when the raid resets (I believe that's the day - at least seems to be on our server), anywho, you'll find a lot of people are willing to pay a lot for these things for raids.
Check the AH when you know that the raids are resetting and see how much items are then.
RAID TIME! Everyone in raids goes through the AH to get the pots or elixirs they need. A really good time would be around Tuesday when the raid resets (I believe that's the day - at least seems to be on our server), anywho, you'll find a lot of people are willing to pay a lot for these things for raids.
Check the AH when you know that the raids are resetting and see how much items are then.
This is exactly right. I've experienced it both ways - on my alchemist and on my raid tank.
On raid nights there often would BE any mana or health pots on the AH. I would have been happy for some alchy to gouge me just so I could get the stupid pots and get to the raid (see below for why I didn't just have my alchemist make them for me). Also as someone else mentioned, there are less players on during the week so mats and crafted item usually are less available and sell for more on like tues and wed.
Beware though you'll probably want to plan ahead as there often aren't any herbs to make said pots on raid days either because there are just less during the week and all the guild alchemeists and everyone else is trying to get the mats either for the raid or for profit.
Definitely. When went were getting ready for kara last night our guild alchemist was trying to find a certain herb for elixirs but there weren't any. luckily some of our other alchers/herbers had stuff so we could get by on making stuff.
Other considerations, Arena Season 4 and Skyfire & Earthstorm Diamonds.
Unannounced start date for now.
When S4 goes live, there will be a mass upgrade of gear. Demand for Skyfire & Earthstorm Diamonds will spike for the S4 helm upgrade. Good potential to take advantage of the "must have meta-gem now, will pay whatever" mentality.
If you have the bankroll to support, start xmuting & stockpiling the diamonds now. Check your server for what makes the most profit between the two.
Risk: S4 helms will now have a 1700 rating. Might limit demand based on prior seasons.
Secondary play, start hoarding the primals that are used in PVP enchants for resale when S4 goes live.
Unannounced start date for now.
When S4 goes live, there will be a mass upgrade of gear. Demand for Skyfire & Earthstorm Diamonds will spike for the S4 helm upgrade. Good potential to take advantage of the "must have meta-gem now, will pay whatever" mentality.
If you have the bankroll to support, start xmuting & stockpiling the diamonds now. Check your server for what makes the most profit between the two.
Risk: S4 helms will now have a 1700 rating. Might limit demand based on prior seasons.
Secondary play, start hoarding the primals that are used in PVP enchants for resale when S4 goes live.
Thanks for all the helpful replies! I was so clever to bank 2 primal mights I made the last two days when I wasn't happy with the listed prices. Was a good thing I waited with putting them up, because (as some of your posts suggested) prices changed over the last few days and now I can make 20G profit on each when putting them up. I am eagerly anticipating my mailbox tomorrow. Also, I bought lots of felweed and dreaming glory to make a few batches of Super Mana Potions both because it's one of the few pots left that give me skill ups and because concidering the list prices for those I could sell them with a profit probably within a few days. (and I secretly hope for a discovery when I start making large quantities for stuff)
Part of the need to make cash on Alch is to become a master of something - when you get a proc then you get a profit - 2-5 items received from making one item means that you can now sell for less then the cost of mats and still make money.
Personally though, I've just been sticking with transmuting the earth to water (mostly because I want to spec in elixers and haven't been able to do the BM runs yet) - the earth sells for less then 5g while the water can go for 25-30g - that's an assured 20g profit a day.
Personally though, I've just been sticking with transmuting the earth to water (mostly because I want to spec in elixers and haven't been able to do the BM runs yet) - the earth sells for less then 5g while the water can go for 25-30g - that's an assured 20g profit a day.
Caia wrote:
Yes. But, you can usually find the herbs cheaper than the potions. If you were to buy potions and simply re-list them you wouldn't make as much than if you started with the herbs to begin with. Sure, I could re-list those herbs at a higher price, but again I can generally make potions that give me more profit.
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However, the undercutting that goes on with these can be kinda intense at times. Most days I can sell 40 Super Healing potions for a 15% profit. Sometimes the come back in the mail 24 hours later because someone wanted to take a 15% loss. It happens, get used to it.
These two are contradictions. Choose one and get back to me on that.
Someone taking a 15% loss can only be comparable to the mats used to make it, meaning you could make more gold simply buying the pots. If you're not at LEAST breaking even with the pots at all times, you could make more buying the cheap pots and selling the expensive ones.
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That'll depend entirely on the server really.
It usually does when someone is asking for personal experiences?
ex:
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I wonder though if flasks make any difference to the story. I'd guess not because of the need of expensive lotuses, but maybe people here have more positive experiences with selling those?
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1.) You shouldn't losing money at all on trying to make discoveries. It takes patience. If you want, you can throw all the cash you have at it. Generally a bad idea. Make 40 Super Mana Potions per day. You ought to have one within a week, maybe two.
2.) At 500% markeup from the base cost of herbs, you're not willing to lose some cash over it? Really?! Lemme toss out ome number for ya. 40 Dreaming glory for 40G. 20 Felweed for 10G. 50G spent. Make 20 Super Mana Potions. Sell them for 2G each. That's 40G that you get back. (Yes, there's Vials that cost cash too, but you'll get the idea without the added work.) So let's call that a 10G loss for every batch of Super Mana Potions I do.
In order to make a discovery, let's say I need to do 20 such sets of Super mana potions. (In otherwords, I'm making 400 total.) 20 * 10G loss is a 200G loss for one discovery.
So, I've lost 200G BUT I have a discovery. Now, let's say I can make said discovery using 20G. I get 500% profit with each one I make. That's 120G. So if I make two, I've already not only broke even but have 40G profit.
If something makes 500% profit, I would be willing to lose a LOT of cash -- thousands of gold -- in order to get that. I'd make it up within weeks.
You're putting numbers in that are dependent on server economies, %chances of discoveries you have no idea about, and using a blatantly over exaggerated number to make a point.
Even though I was over exaggerating, I still stand by what I said. Even if I knew a flask had a very high profit margin, I wouldn't make pots at a loss to get it. Also, I'm pretty sure you missed me writing how a SPECIFIC flask is not worth trying to discover. In all your false calculations and writing, it was your reading comprehension that failed you.
Excuse me for being so very terse, but I found absolutely nothing in your post that related to what I said, or which was at all clever. You ignored important information to make yourself seem right, and basically got your panties all up in a knot because I said your "guide" was all about playing the markets.
Edited. I'll be polite, even if I feel like I'm being attacked.
Yes, I'm using numbers on my server. If you'd like to get me the numbers on his server, I'll be able to tell him which potions to make with ease. What numbers should I use? I don't have access to his server without making an account there. I can only tell you what I know.
I didn't mention a specific flask. As I outlined, if you're making 500% profit on something, you ought to be willing to take a loss on getting there.
False calculations? I gave you the numbers and did the calculations. Care to tell me where this is false? You seem to be able to say it is false without giving an example as to where/why/how you know its false. Generally a bad idea if you can't come up with, you know, proof.
I'm sorry. You're wrong. Deal with it. :)
Hell, let's use real numbers on my server right now.
Dreaming Glory: 2 Stack at 12G buyout (24G)
Felweed: 1 stack at 9G (9G)
Imbued Vials: 5 for 1G 70S (6.8G) (Revered at Ironforge)
Total Spent: 39.8G
That makes 20 Super Mana Potions.
The going rate for one is: 2G 62S 50C
Ergo, the rate for 20 is 52.5G
Let's not forget about the AH fee. In order to place 4 stacks of 5, I would need to spend an extra 1.5G.
total spent: 39.8 + 1.5 or 41.3G
Total cash that I'm going to get back (assuming they sell): 52.5G
Total profit: 11.2G
Now, can I buy all the Dreaming glory and all the Felweed in stock and relist it at a higher price to make 11.2G?
There are currently 45 stacks of Dreaming Glory below the average value.I would have to buy them all (or a good portion of them anyway), and relist them at a higher price and keep in mind that I'm paying a decent amount to relist them. Possible? Maybe. Maybe, maybe. Weekend is coming up, Dreaming glory is a fairly quick seller.
Let's do the same with Felweed. There are 16 stacks below average price. However, there are also 15 stacks below 110% of average value. I'd need to buy them all in order to make a profit OR hope that the 15 stacks above average value sell before someone comes along and puts up more below average value. Chances are this isn't going to happen.
Given all this, its far better to make 20 Super Mana Potions (using alchemy) and turn a profit much quicker than simply buying out the raw materials and relisting them.
That's how you make a profit using Alchemy. By all means, show me any error I've made here. Get someone on Dragonmaw to tell you that these numbers are correct. Verify them.
I simply cannot make this any more simple. I'm using Alchemy to make a profit far quicker than I could by buying the raw materials and relisting them. That is what you wanted me to show, is it not?
As for not taking a loss to get a recipe that makes 500% profit, that was your number. Run the numbers as you see fit using the number that you gave. I cannot imagine NOT spending a vast sum of cash to get that recipe.
Yes, I don't know the exact number of potions you have to make to get a discovery. Except for Blizzard, no one does. However, there is enough people out there saying it took them X number of potions to discover something. I think 400 is pretty fair. Use whatever number you like, though. If you're making a profit on Super Mana Potions to begin with, there isn't much reason not to try for a discovery. If you're losing a little money on making them (which is entirely server dependent), then its probably still to your advantage to try for a discovery. If you're losing a LOT of cash, then try another recipe.
Finally, I'm just trying to help someone with a question. There is zero ZERO reason to act like an ***. If you disagree, fine. I've made this a step by step process to show that you can make money of alchemy. If you want deny it and call it playing the market, then by all means do so. Hell, call the sky green, and me the Queen of Spain while you're at it.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 12:23am by Caia
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You're putting numbers in that are dependent on server economies, %chances of discoveries you have no idea about, and using a blatantly over exaggerated number to make a point.
Yes, I'm using numbers on my server. If you'd like to get me the numbers on his server, I'll be able to tell him which potions to make with ease. What numbers should I use? I don't have access to his server without making an account there. I can only tell you what I know.
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Even though I was over exaggerating, I still stand by what I said. Even if I knew a flask had a very high profit margin, I wouldn't make pots at a loss to get it. Also, I'm pretty sure you missed me writing how a SPECIFIC flask is not worth trying to discover. In all your false calculations and writing, it was your reading comprehension that failed you.
I didn't mention a specific flask. As I outlined, if you're making 500% profit on something, you ought to be willing to take a loss on getting there.
False calculations? I gave you the numbers and did the calculations. Care to tell me where this is false? You seem to be able to say it is false without giving an example as to where/why/how you know its false. Generally a bad idea if you can't come up with, you know, proof.
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Excuse me for being so very terse, but I found absolutely nothing in your post that related to what I said, or which was at all clever. You ignored important information to make yourself seem right, and basically got your panties all up in a knot because I said your "guide" was all about playing the markets.
I'm sorry. You're wrong. Deal with it. :)
Hell, let's use real numbers on my server right now.
Dreaming Glory: 2 Stack at 12G buyout (24G)
Felweed: 1 stack at 9G (9G)
Imbued Vials: 5 for 1G 70S (6.8G) (Revered at Ironforge)
Total Spent: 39.8G
That makes 20 Super Mana Potions.
The going rate for one is: 2G 62S 50C
Ergo, the rate for 20 is 52.5G
Let's not forget about the AH fee. In order to place 4 stacks of 5, I would need to spend an extra 1.5G.
total spent: 39.8 + 1.5 or 41.3G
Total cash that I'm going to get back (assuming they sell): 52.5G
Total profit: 11.2G
Now, can I buy all the Dreaming glory and all the Felweed in stock and relist it at a higher price to make 11.2G?
There are currently 45 stacks of Dreaming Glory below the average value.I would have to buy them all (or a good portion of them anyway), and relist them at a higher price and keep in mind that I'm paying a decent amount to relist them. Possible? Maybe. Maybe, maybe. Weekend is coming up, Dreaming glory is a fairly quick seller.
Let's do the same with Felweed. There are 16 stacks below average price. However, there are also 15 stacks below 110% of average value. I'd need to buy them all in order to make a profit OR hope that the 15 stacks above average value sell before someone comes along and puts up more below average value. Chances are this isn't going to happen.
Given all this, its far better to make 20 Super Mana Potions (using alchemy) and turn a profit much quicker than simply buying out the raw materials and relisting them.
That's how you make a profit using Alchemy. By all means, show me any error I've made here. Get someone on Dragonmaw to tell you that these numbers are correct. Verify them.
I simply cannot make this any more simple. I'm using Alchemy to make a profit far quicker than I could by buying the raw materials and relisting them. That is what you wanted me to show, is it not?
As for not taking a loss to get a recipe that makes 500% profit, that was your number. Run the numbers as you see fit using the number that you gave. I cannot imagine NOT spending a vast sum of cash to get that recipe.
Yes, I don't know the exact number of potions you have to make to get a discovery. Except for Blizzard, no one does. However, there is enough people out there saying it took them X number of potions to discover something. I think 400 is pretty fair. Use whatever number you like, though. If you're making a profit on Super Mana Potions to begin with, there isn't much reason not to try for a discovery. If you're losing a little money on making them (which is entirely server dependent), then its probably still to your advantage to try for a discovery. If you're losing a LOT of cash, then try another recipe.
Finally, I'm just trying to help someone with a question. There is zero ZERO reason to act like an ***. If you disagree, fine. I've made this a step by step process to show that you can make money of alchemy. If you want deny it and call it playing the market, then by all means do so. Hell, call the sky green, and me the Queen of Spain while you're at it.
Edited, Apr 25th 2008 12:23am by Caia
Ok. you're the Queen of Spain.
You also happen to be right. The biggest profit for me come from Elixir mastery. The proc rate is 5% to 10% for two, less for 3, 4 or 5. But if you are making flasks an extra helping is very meaningful. Less so for Transmutation and Potions. Transmutes because it is a once per day proposition and potions because they are cheap. The proc rate, I think, is the same percentage for all three.
Anyway I recommend Elixir mastery and, if there are any good deals, buying the mats. Otherwise farm them.
BTW, I am making about 500G profit per week with alchemy and another 400G with (dis)enchanting.
As always, your mileage may vary.
You also happen to be right. The biggest profit for me come from Elixir mastery. The proc rate is 5% to 10% for two, less for 3, 4 or 5. But if you are making flasks an extra helping is very meaningful. Less so for Transmutation and Potions. Transmutes because it is a once per day proposition and potions because they are cheap. The proc rate, I think, is the same percentage for all three.
Anyway I recommend Elixir mastery and, if there are any good deals, buying the mats. Otherwise farm them.
BTW, I am making about 500G profit per week with alchemy and another 400G with (dis)enchanting.
As always, your mileage may vary.
I just started with alchemy and I have found the comments on this thread to be very helpful, so thanks for that. I was wondering about this info poster before:
What are the discoveries that can make you 500% profit. Can anyone give me some of them so I could look them up? I completely agree with Caja that if you can makeup all that money you lost by making 2 items from a discovery it's worth it! Also, can anyone break down how you make the money on the Earthstorm Diamond? Isn't it just easier to use your Transmute Earth to Water every day and take the quick 20g?
I just got revered with Sporoggar last night and bought my Transmute: Earth to Water. I went to Org and bought a Primal Earth and on my first transmute I got a discovery! I got Transmute: Earth to Life...so I guess that was pretty lucky! Thanks again for the info and your help.
Quote:
Quote:
1.) You shouldn't losing money at all on trying to make discoveries. It takes patience. If you want, you can throw all the cash you have at it. Generally a bad idea. Make 40 Super Mana Potions per day. You ought to have one within a week, maybe two.
2.) At 500% markeup from the base cost of herbs, you're not willing to lose some cash over it? Really?! Lemme toss out ome number for ya. 40 Dreaming glory for 40G. 20 Felweed for 10G. 50G spent. Make 20 Super Mana Potions. Sell them for 2G each. That's 40G that you get back. (Yes, there's Vials that cost cash too, but you'll get the idea without the added work.) So let's call that a 10G loss for every batch of Super Mana Potions I do.
In order to make a discovery, let's say I need to do 20 such sets of Super mana potions. (In otherwords, I'm making 400 total.) 20 * 10G loss is a 200G loss for one discovery.
So, I've lost 200G BUT I have a discovery. Now, let's say I can make said discovery using 20G. I get 500% profit with each one I make. That's 120G. So if I make two, I've already not only broke even but have 40G profit.
If something makes 500% profit, I would be willing to lose a LOT of cash -- thousands of gold -- in order to get that. I'd make it up within weeks.
2.) At 500% markeup from the base cost of herbs, you're not willing to lose some cash over it? Really?! Lemme toss out ome number for ya. 40 Dreaming glory for 40G. 20 Felweed for 10G. 50G spent. Make 20 Super Mana Potions. Sell them for 2G each. That's 40G that you get back. (Yes, there's Vials that cost cash too, but you'll get the idea without the added work.) So let's call that a 10G loss for every batch of Super Mana Potions I do.
In order to make a discovery, let's say I need to do 20 such sets of Super mana potions. (In otherwords, I'm making 400 total.) 20 * 10G loss is a 200G loss for one discovery.
So, I've lost 200G BUT I have a discovery. Now, let's say I can make said discovery using 20G. I get 500% profit with each one I make. That's 120G. So if I make two, I've already not only broke even but have 40G profit.
If something makes 500% profit, I would be willing to lose a LOT of cash -- thousands of gold -- in order to get that. I'd make it up within weeks.
What are the discoveries that can make you 500% profit. Can anyone give me some of them so I could look them up? I completely agree with Caja that if you can makeup all that money you lost by making 2 items from a discovery it's worth it! Also, can anyone break down how you make the money on the Earthstorm Diamond? Isn't it just easier to use your Transmute Earth to Water every day and take the quick 20g?
I just got revered with Sporoggar last night and bought my Transmute: Earth to Water. I went to Org and bought a Primal Earth and on my first transmute I got a discovery! I got Transmute: Earth to Life...so I guess that was pretty lucky! Thanks again for the info and your help.
On the profitability potential of various masteries: make sure you do the math on your own server market.
An elixir master on my server who buys herbs off the AH at current prices will pay 51g15s for materials to make a Flask of Pure Death. They sell for 45g on the auction house. Going with an 15% assumed yield rate from mastery then after using 100 sets of materials you will have 115 flasks to sell. Before auction house fees this will bring in 5175g, only 60g more than the materials cost. After AH fees, it's a loss. Profit on this is strictly for those who gather their own herbs (at least the Fel Lotus) or get lucky with procs.
Looking at Destruction Potions (they use Nightmare Vine, same as Pure Death), the material cost is 4g15s and they sell for 7g each. Assuming 15% mastery yield rate, making 100 potions for 415g mats results in 115 potions that sell for 805g before AH cut. Almost double the money and you can sell 115 potions a lot faster than you can sell 115 flasks (higher market demand). Potions being relatively cheap compared to flasks does not reduce the value of the mastery.
Finally for transmutes the Skyfire Diamond is 110g mats, can only be transmuted once per day and sells for 230g when cut. That's a guaranteed profit of 120g per day with mats straight off the AH (no time investment). Going with the same yield rate, over a time period of 100 days* you'd end up with 115 diamonds at a cost of 11k gold and sell them for 26450 gold before AH cut. Your daily profit average would be better than the Elixir master, but worse than the potion master.
* This is a simplification. Managed perfectly it only takes 96 days to make 100 transmutes. After 2.4.2 patch it will take 84 days to make 100 transmutes.
I would recommend every alchemist to take a look at their server market, do their own math and switch mastery (it costs 150g) to whatever is currently most profitable if they want to make the most out of their profession. There may be a strong financial case for being a transmute master 9 days out of 10 and switching to potions or elixirs occasionally to cook up a very large batch of product that you then sell at premium prices over the long term. There is an even stronger case for *always* being a transmute master and using some other fool for making potions, flasks and elixirs for you for free in return for the chance at a discovery for them.
An elixir master on my server who buys herbs off the AH at current prices will pay 51g15s for materials to make a Flask of Pure Death. They sell for 45g on the auction house. Going with an 15% assumed yield rate from mastery then after using 100 sets of materials you will have 115 flasks to sell. Before auction house fees this will bring in 5175g, only 60g more than the materials cost. After AH fees, it's a loss. Profit on this is strictly for those who gather their own herbs (at least the Fel Lotus) or get lucky with procs.
Looking at Destruction Potions (they use Nightmare Vine, same as Pure Death), the material cost is 4g15s and they sell for 7g each. Assuming 15% mastery yield rate, making 100 potions for 415g mats results in 115 potions that sell for 805g before AH cut. Almost double the money and you can sell 115 potions a lot faster than you can sell 115 flasks (higher market demand). Potions being relatively cheap compared to flasks does not reduce the value of the mastery.
Finally for transmutes the Skyfire Diamond is 110g mats, can only be transmuted once per day and sells for 230g when cut. That's a guaranteed profit of 120g per day with mats straight off the AH (no time investment). Going with the same yield rate, over a time period of 100 days* you'd end up with 115 diamonds at a cost of 11k gold and sell them for 26450 gold before AH cut. Your daily profit average would be better than the Elixir master, but worse than the potion master.
* This is a simplification. Managed perfectly it only takes 96 days to make 100 transmutes. After 2.4.2 patch it will take 84 days to make 100 transmutes.
I would recommend every alchemist to take a look at their server market, do their own math and switch mastery (it costs 150g) to whatever is currently most profitable if they want to make the most out of their profession. There may be a strong financial case for being a transmute master 9 days out of 10 and switching to potions or elixirs occasionally to cook up a very large batch of product that you then sell at premium prices over the long term. There is an even stronger case for *always* being a transmute master and using some other fool for making potions, flasks and elixirs for you for free in return for the chance at a discovery for them.
Jedius wrote:
What are the discoveries that can make you 500% profit. Can anyone give me some of them so I could look them up? I completely agree with Caja that if you can makeup all that money you lost by making 2 items from a discovery it's worth it! Also, can anyone break down how you make the money on the Earthstorm Diamond? Isn't it just easier to use your Transmute Earth to Water every day and take the quick 20g?
I just got revered with Sporoggar last night and bought my Transmute: Earth to Water. I went to Org and bought a Primal Earth and on my first transmute I got a discovery! I got Transmute: Earth to Life...so I guess that was pretty lucky! Thanks again for the info and your help.
I just got revered with Sporoggar last night and bought my Transmute: Earth to Water. I went to Org and bought a Primal Earth and on my first transmute I got a discovery! I got Transmute: Earth to Life...so I guess that was pretty lucky! Thanks again for the info and your help.
List of discoveries excluding Cauldrons
Potions
Super Rejuvenation Potion
Transmutes
Transmute Primal Earth to Life
Transmute Primal Life to Earth
Transmute Primal Shadow to Water
Transmute Primal Water to Shadow
Transmute Primal Fire to Mana
Transmute Primal Mana to Fire
Flasks
Flask of Blinding Light
Flask of Fortification
Flask of Mighty Restoration
Flask of Pure Death
Flask of Relentless Assault
Of all those and based on my server prices the profitable discoveries are Earth to Life and Mana to Fire. The flasks can be money-makers if you gather your own materials and have the mastery.
Morthan,
That's good info, I may look into that Skyfire Diamond concept.
That's good info, I may look into that Skyfire Diamond concept.
I don't really agree with people saying "profit on this is strictly for those who gather their own herbs" or anything suggesting that when you gather your own herbs, you can make a profit on things that non-herbalist alchemists can't make a profit on. Sure, technically they earn money with spending less/no money, so they make a profit. But in practice they could make more money if they outright sold the herbs. So if they make a product out of those herbs and sell it, they're losing money in comparison to a more profitable option.
Well cancel the Skyfire money maker. I added it up and based off the numbers on the ah tonight it's a loser. There was however only one Skyfire Diamond going for 175 gold.
The other mats were as follows:
2 Primal Air - 64g
2 Primal Fire - 64g
3 Blood Garnet - 30g!!
3 Spessarite - 10.5g
3 Azure Moonstones - 6.75g
-For a total of 175.25 by my fuzzy math. The only thing that could be throwing it off is the fact there was only one Skyfire Diamond (if he was giving it away)...and the only available Blood Garnet and Spessarites were all from the same seller, so maybe he had the market jacked up??
The other mats were as follows:
2 Primal Air - 64g
2 Primal Fire - 64g
3 Blood Garnet - 30g!!
3 Spessarite - 10.5g
3 Azure Moonstones - 6.75g
-For a total of 175.25 by my fuzzy math. The only thing that could be throwing it off is the fact there was only one Skyfire Diamond (if he was giving it away)...and the only available Blood Garnet and Spessarites were all from the same seller, so maybe he had the market jacked up??
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