I always feel weird when guildies come up to me want me to prospect a whole lot of ore, and then cut any blue gem I get into the thing that makes the most money. I don't mind the prospecting stuff, its them asking "can you cut all the blues you got into whatever sells the best" that I feel weird about. The only thing I can compare it to is taking a bunch of greens to an enchanter, having them get a bunch of mats then telling them "can you sell your enchants to people using these mats and give me the money?" I have yet to refuse because its guildies, but it just doesn't feel right. Especially since I rarely get a tip from the people that do that.
I was wondering if there were any other jewelcrafters out there that had similar experiences and how you would handle the situation.
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Trade Skills
- Jewelcrafting etiquette
Jewelcrafting etiquetteFollow
My adivce depends on what use you make of other guildies' skills. Do you ever ask these guildies to disenchant (or enchant) stuff you've picked up? Do you ever ask them to craft items for you?
If so, charge them the exact same mark-up rate that they charge you. If that's zero (nothing) then so be it. If they are taking money off you, charge it back to them.
If not, you need to figure out how much your time is worth. If a non-guild member asked you to provide the same service, how much would you charge? Then give your guild-member a decent discount.
Ultimately, don't let yourself be taken for a ride. Since you're posting here, you're obviously not entirely comfortable with the status quo, so you need something in return. When you sort that bit out, you'll feel a lot happier. Trust me on this, I've been there, I've got the doormat as a souvenir.
If so, charge them the exact same mark-up rate that they charge you. If that's zero (nothing) then so be it. If they are taking money off you, charge it back to them.
If not, you need to figure out how much your time is worth. If a non-guild member asked you to provide the same service, how much would you charge? Then give your guild-member a decent discount.
Ultimately, don't let yourself be taken for a ride. Since you're posting here, you're obviously not entirely comfortable with the status quo, so you need something in return. When you sort that bit out, you'll feel a lot happier. Trust me on this, I've been there, I've got the doormat as a souvenir.
Is your guild giving you blue/rare JC designs for free? If yes, then I think it's expected of you to offer your service to your guild for free.
If not, it's really up to you. It does sound like you are getting taking advantage of a little.
If not, it's really up to you. It does sound like you are getting taking advantage of a little.
i think the difference is this.
many of us don't mind to make something for a guildie, if he gives mats, and he's going to use it. that means he probably will ask you one time to make the item.
but if he's going to sell it, and he keeps doing this quite often, it gets irritating to the point where you pretend you're too busy to meet up with him and hope he gets the idea.
this kind of pitfall can happen to many other trades also, not just JC. and you treat it like the others said. if there is something you're getting back from the guild or persons, then you'll feel more likely to keep doing this also. but if they are pretty much just using you, then it's not as likely that you'll want to keep doing it.
and since you already are writing about it, that's a sign that you know it's not exactly helping you much at all.
Yeah if they're using it for profit, just tell them no politely. Tell them you spent thousands of gold to level this, and it wasn't just so other people could make profit off you. I would do all cuts free to the guildies if they're going to use them, but I'd be pretty strict about letting them know they're for personal use.
Prospecting is where it gets fuzzy. Maybe a tank needs 2 +12 stam gems for his new epic he got. What if he brings you 240 ore hoping you'll prospect it all because he wants the chance at those blue gems? He might get like 8 rare gems, or even 15 on a crazy luck streak. Maybe 3 of them are the gems he needs, of course he'll want to sell the rest.
I'd probably tell people no, I dont prospect for others, if you dont get the gems YOU need you'll end up selling them and profitting off my 5000g investment. Sorry, go buy some uncuts and I'll gladly cut you any gem free as long as its for personal use.
Prospecting is where it gets fuzzy. Maybe a tank needs 2 +12 stam gems for his new epic he got. What if he brings you 240 ore hoping you'll prospect it all because he wants the chance at those blue gems? He might get like 8 rare gems, or even 15 on a crazy luck streak. Maybe 3 of them are the gems he needs, of course he'll want to sell the rest.
I'd probably tell people no, I dont prospect for others, if you dont get the gems YOU need you'll end up selling them and profitting off my 5000g investment. Sorry, go buy some uncuts and I'll gladly cut you any gem free as long as its for personal use.
on a base level to be honest this is a good system if its not taken for granted. say with my boyfriend and a couple of friends in our guild we have a system;
any unwanted/ unsold items do to me for disenchanting, as well as any unnedded cloth for tailoring which i also break for materials. i sell any unneeded mats on the AH
any ores go to my boyfriend for prospecting as hes a jewelcrafter/ miner. we also pay at least in part for any patterns we want if we get a cut of profit of gems he sells. any we dont want again goes on the AH
another friend is an alchemist/ herbalist so any plants we get from fishing/ find/ any blackmouths/ firefins go to him for free. he sells what he doesnt need, gives us potions he makes up and sells any we dont on the AH
same system with any leatherworkers/ blacksmiths/ engineers - we're largely getting started as a coalition of 4-5 guilds who are all looking to do the same thing. the agreement is that we give mats to other profs away and get what we need in return. if say i earn more than a guildie at one point i'll help them out and they'll do the same
thing is don't be taken for a ride and ensure you get something back in return. they want high selling gems they should help out with patterns to get them. its just our way but it works out pretty well
any unwanted/ unsold items do to me for disenchanting, as well as any unnedded cloth for tailoring which i also break for materials. i sell any unneeded mats on the AH
any ores go to my boyfriend for prospecting as hes a jewelcrafter/ miner. we also pay at least in part for any patterns we want if we get a cut of profit of gems he sells. any we dont want again goes on the AH
another friend is an alchemist/ herbalist so any plants we get from fishing/ find/ any blackmouths/ firefins go to him for free. he sells what he doesnt need, gives us potions he makes up and sells any we dont on the AH
same system with any leatherworkers/ blacksmiths/ engineers - we're largely getting started as a coalition of 4-5 guilds who are all looking to do the same thing. the agreement is that we give mats to other profs away and get what we need in return. if say i earn more than a guildie at one point i'll help them out and they'll do the same
thing is don't be taken for a ride and ensure you get something back in return. they want high selling gems they should help out with patterns to get them. its just our way but it works out pretty well
"can you cut all the blues you got into whatever sells the best"
Your guildy is using you,, end of story. If he hasn't offered you a red cent, cut him off or set up a fee list. Keep is reasonable, anything you cut will have a small fee attached to it depending on its value. If he has a problem with that, then you know he was just using you. If he wants to make the most money possible off his gathering profession, he can pick up a crafting profession to go with it or pay a friend to work with him as a partner.
Your guildy is using you,, end of story. If he hasn't offered you a red cent, cut him off or set up a fee list. Keep is reasonable, anything you cut will have a small fee attached to it depending on its value. If he has a problem with that, then you know he was just using you. If he wants to make the most money possible off his gathering profession, he can pick up a crafting profession to go with it or pay a friend to work with him as a partner.
That's pretty much how I feel, I just didn't know if I would be wrong in doing so. There are people in my guild who have essentially donated hundreds of gold worth in designs and I'll cut them whatever they want for the rest of my character's existence no problem, but they are not the ones who ask me to cut stuff into what sells best; they ask me to cut stuff for them to use, which is the original reason for me going into Jewelcrafting in the first place. I didn't get into it for the money (though I did use it to get my epic flier), I got into it to provide a service for the guild. I've been the only JC in my guild with every design for a few months now, and I'm cutting gems/metas for new gear nightly free of charge.
No, it's usually the people who never give me donations or helped my JC in any way that are the ones to try to take advantage of the fact I do have every JC design. I really appreciate your input, and I think I will start charging the guildies that do this to me, except the ones that have helped me in the past.
No, it's usually the people who never give me donations or helped my JC in any way that are the ones to try to take advantage of the fact I do have every JC design. I really appreciate your input, and I think I will start charging the guildies that do this to me, except the ones that have helped me in the past.
I'm with the posters here that say tell them no.
I have guildies who routinely send me items to D/E for them. All I've asked is that they include a little blurb with each piece saying it's to D/E so I can keep everything straight. It takes me less than 5 mins/day to handle the D/Eing for my guild, and everyone is happy. It's one of the benefits I bring to my guild and part of keeping a guild healthy and happy is when each person makes a contribution.
However...
When someone ships you a boatload of stuff to work your profession magic on, and their instructions are basically, "mak it in2 teh most goldz u can lolz" it's just rude and lazy. I'd be tempted to ship everything back with a message saying that they've been cut off from the benefits of your profession for a week.
Also in line with what others have said, if they're doing it for the sheer purpose of upping the resale value of their raw materials, there's a fine line between exchanging benefits and abuse. When I D/E for guildies, I know that some of the materials I send back go to auction (and they definately hear from me if I see them undercutting me :P), but they also store a bunch of them in reserve for future enchants. In my case, they aren't asking me to do any market research, and the most I've ever had someone send me in a given day was 5 items to D/E...less than a minute worth of effort.
Generally speaking, if their request makes you uncomfortable, you're usually better to speak up in a timely fashion, rather than fulfil that request and build resentments over it.
I have guildies who routinely send me items to D/E for them. All I've asked is that they include a little blurb with each piece saying it's to D/E so I can keep everything straight. It takes me less than 5 mins/day to handle the D/Eing for my guild, and everyone is happy. It's one of the benefits I bring to my guild and part of keeping a guild healthy and happy is when each person makes a contribution.
However...
When someone ships you a boatload of stuff to work your profession magic on, and their instructions are basically, "mak it in2 teh most goldz u can lolz" it's just rude and lazy. I'd be tempted to ship everything back with a message saying that they've been cut off from the benefits of your profession for a week.
Also in line with what others have said, if they're doing it for the sheer purpose of upping the resale value of their raw materials, there's a fine line between exchanging benefits and abuse. When I D/E for guildies, I know that some of the materials I send back go to auction (and they definately hear from me if I see them undercutting me :P), but they also store a bunch of them in reserve for future enchants. In my case, they aren't asking me to do any market research, and the most I've ever had someone send me in a given day was 5 items to D/E...less than a minute worth of effort.
Generally speaking, if their request makes you uncomfortable, you're usually better to speak up in a timely fashion, rather than fulfil that request and build resentments over it.
Dilbrt wrote:
There are people in my guild who have essentially donated hundreds of gold worth in designs and I'll cut them whatever they want for the rest of my character's existence no problem, but they are not the ones who ask me to cut stuff into what sells best; they ask me to cut stuff for them to use, which is the original reason for me going into Jewelcrafting in the first place.
See, that's where it gets fuzzy. As I already commented, if you're JC designs came from your guild (doesn't matter who in the guild) then it is commonly expected that your craft is freely available to the guild.
Having said that though, I think it is fair to limit that to items being used by people in your guild; which leads to benefiting the guild as a whole.
If they are going to sell the gems you cut/prospect for them, then I think you have a right to say "No" because that is helping the individual, and not the guild as a whole.
I got a friend at 375 and he does this for free for friends/guildies but tells everyone he keeps the 'dust' from the prospecting of adamantite. Evidently this sells for good gold to vendors.
Hope that makes sense just repeating what he constantly tells me.
Hope that makes sense just repeating what he constantly tells me.
echou wrote:
Dilbrt wrote:
There are people in my guild who have essentially donated hundreds of gold worth in designs and I'll cut them whatever they want for the rest of my character's existence no problem, but they are not the ones who ask me to cut stuff into what sells best; they ask me to cut stuff for them to use, which is the original reason for me going into Jewelcrafting in the first place.
See, that's where it gets fuzzy. As I already commented, if you're JC designs came from your guild (doesn't matter who in the guild) then it is commonly expected that your craft is freely available to the guild.
Ya, I think fuzzy is a good word for it. On one hand, if I were to send a couple of Rare JC designs to a guildie and when I ask them 2 weeks down the road to cut me one from a gem I supply and they said no, I'd be a bit miffed.
On the other hand, I really, really have a problem with guilds that basically say, "We gave you <x item/profession design> therefore you are forever indebted to us."
When I give something to someone, the transaction is over. It's done. Having given it to them is not something I could (or would) hold over their heads, and I sure as **** wouldn't allow that to become justification to make them my slave with their profession.
Like you mentioned, profession for personal use only. You sell what I make you, you find yourself a new JC the next time you've got a mining bag full of adamantite ore and a greedy little gleam in your eye.
Were I a less ethical person, I'd urge you to run a version of the "Unlocking by Mail" scam.
(That scam requires a rogue with high level lockpicking. You let it be known on /2 that you will unlock any lockboxes sent to you by mail, free of charge, and will return the unlocked box with its contents still inside as proof of your honesty. Your profit comes from the boxes you unlock that have more than one item inside, which you pocket and return with just one item, and any box with a blues or purples inside, which you keep while returning an identical unlocked box with a green inside. Don't fall for it.)
You prospect their stacks and stacks of adamantite, but only send them a fraction of the resulting blue gems, and/or send them Talasite instead of the Star of Elune that you actually prospected.
Don't scam your guildies, and don't put your guildies in a position where they're temped to scam you.
(That scam requires a rogue with high level lockpicking. You let it be known on /2 that you will unlock any lockboxes sent to you by mail, free of charge, and will return the unlocked box with its contents still inside as proof of your honesty. Your profit comes from the boxes you unlock that have more than one item inside, which you pocket and return with just one item, and any box with a blues or purples inside, which you keep while returning an identical unlocked box with a green inside. Don't fall for it.)
You prospect their stacks and stacks of adamantite, but only send them a fraction of the resulting blue gems, and/or send them Talasite instead of the Star of Elune that you actually prospected.
Don't scam your guildies, and don't put your guildies in a position where they're temped to scam you.
Negotiate.
If you feel you are not getting the fair end of the bargain, change it.
That being said, I would approach diplomatically and let them know I feel it is kind of unfair that they keep doing that, and that you feel that your time, effort and gold could be better spent elsewhere.
And make it clear to them, you just wish to renegotiate the terms. You are still friends and "guildies" regardless of how the deal turns out. If negotiations turn nasty, I say "friends don't stiff friends"
You will come across as serious yet fair and most importantly professional.
If you feel you are not getting the fair end of the bargain, change it.
That being said, I would approach diplomatically and let them know I feel it is kind of unfair that they keep doing that, and that you feel that your time, effort and gold could be better spent elsewhere.
And make it clear to them, you just wish to renegotiate the terms. You are still friends and "guildies" regardless of how the deal turns out. If negotiations turn nasty, I say "friends don't stiff friends"
You will come across as serious yet fair and most importantly professional.
Recent Visitors: 98
All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (98)
- Forums
- World of Warcraft
- Trade Skills
- Jewelcrafting etiquette
© 2024 Fanbyte LLC