Hi I want to know what is enchantment. What is this profession, I heard it is expensive profession but what is it about? Please tell! Thanks
Hullus,
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Enchanting is actually several different things. I'll try to explain them in brief.
First of all, as an enchanter you can disenchant (DE) green-quality or better items. When you disenchant them, the item is destroyed and in its place you get various magical dusts, essences, or shards. Often these ingredients sell very well on the auction house, so you can use enchanting to make money by disenchanting items. However, disenchanting will only gain you enchanting skill points for about the first 45-60 levels. After that you can only gain skill by enchanting items.
That's the second thing you can do with enchanting. Using the dusts, essences and shards you gain by disenchanting items, you can add enchantments to your weapons and armor, as well as the items of others. Enchantments could do anything from adding 5 agility to your bracers, to causing your weapon to deal extra fire damage on each attack, to providing you with extra armor or mana regeneration, more health... any number of things. You can enchant one and two handed weapons, chest armor, cloaks, boots, bracers and the like.
Lastly, as an enchanter you can make a few crafted items as well. Early on you can make some very powerful low-level magical wands for cloth-wearing classes to use. You can also make various oils to put on your weapon that will increase your spell damage or your mana regeneration.
Enchanting IS a very expensive profession, though. Unlike other professions, you can't really rely on selling item drops to make money, because you'll be turning most of your quest items and green or blue enemy drops into enchanting materials. And, unfortunately, most of the lower-level enchantments are things nobody wants, so you can't really rely on selling enchantments to other players to level your craft early on. But it can be very rewarding if you can get it to higher levels! Good luck to you if you choose to follow the path of the enchanter.
First of all, as an enchanter you can disenchant (DE) green-quality or better items. When you disenchant them, the item is destroyed and in its place you get various magical dusts, essences, or shards. Often these ingredients sell very well on the auction house, so you can use enchanting to make money by disenchanting items. However, disenchanting will only gain you enchanting skill points for about the first 45-60 levels. After that you can only gain skill by enchanting items.
That's the second thing you can do with enchanting. Using the dusts, essences and shards you gain by disenchanting items, you can add enchantments to your weapons and armor, as well as the items of others. Enchantments could do anything from adding 5 agility to your bracers, to causing your weapon to deal extra fire damage on each attack, to providing you with extra armor or mana regeneration, more health... any number of things. You can enchant one and two handed weapons, chest armor, cloaks, boots, bracers and the like.
Lastly, as an enchanter you can make a few crafted items as well. Early on you can make some very powerful low-level magical wands for cloth-wearing classes to use. You can also make various oils to put on your weapon that will increase your spell damage or your mana regeneration.
Enchanting IS a very expensive profession, though. Unlike other professions, you can't really rely on selling item drops to make money, because you'll be turning most of your quest items and green or blue enemy drops into enchanting materials. And, unfortunately, most of the lower-level enchantments are things nobody wants, so you can't really rely on selling enchantments to other players to level your craft early on. But it can be very rewarding if you can get it to higher levels! Good luck to you if you choose to follow the path of the enchanter.
Saboruto wrote:
Enchanting IS a very expensive profession, though. Unlike other professions, you can't really rely on selling item drops to make money, because you'll be turning most of your quest items and green or blue enemy drops into enchanting materials. And, unfortunately, most of the lower-level enchantments are things nobody wants, so you can't really rely on selling enchantments to other players to level your craft early on. But it can be very rewarding if you can get it to higher levels! Good luck to you if you choose to follow the path of the enchanter.
WHY DO EXPERIENCED PLAYERS KEEP INSISTING THAT ENCHANTING IS EXPENSIVE? OK, I'll attribute this one to lack of knowledge or inability to read other threads. But I'm going to start downrating any post that perpetuates this urban myth. I didn't on this one, but be warned! It's plain disinformation, and it's wrong.
Here is a post I made on another thread:
Quote:
bodhisattva wrote:
2) Enchanting takes money to level, you should probably drop it, personal choice though.
Bzzzt! Enchanting makes you gold (LOTS OF IT!) while you level (at least to 300, which is all you need to make money). DE AH items, use mats to level, sell the excess. You'll end up with more money than you spent purchasing the AH items. When you reach 300, you will be able to disenchant any item in the game. THERE IS NO REASON TO LEVEL ENCHANTING PAST 300 IF YOUR ONLY GOAL IS GOLD!
I have no idea why I have to keep repeating myself in every thread where the topic is about making gold through using enchanting, but I'm getting a bit tired of it. I also have no idea why experienced players (and I know that Bhodi is very experienced) keep the urban myth that enchanting is an expensive profession going.
Enchanting comes off as an expensive profession because many of the popular enchants are either learned from rare-drop recipes (and are quite expensive to purchase, such as +5 herbs to glove, riding speed to gloves, fiery weapon, etc) or require a massive rep grind to obtain (15 agi to weapon from the Timbermaw, as one example), or require mats people don't farm much anymore (illusion dust, eternal essence, etc). You can keep your enchanting costs down by downloading and installing the addon Auctioneer, along with it's sister addon Enchantrix. They work together by providing you the best deals on items that you can DE for profit, and likely yield reagents of value.
soggymaster wrote:
Enchanting comes off as an expensive profession because many of the popular enchants are either learned from rare-drop recipes (and are quite expensive to purchase, such as +5 herbs to glove, riding speed to gloves, fiery weapon, etc) or require a massive rep grind to obtain (15 agi to weapon from the Timbermaw, as one example), or require mats people don't farm much anymore (illusion dust, eternal essence, etc). You can keep your enchanting costs down by downloading and installing the addon Auctioneer, along with it's sister addon Enchantrix. They work together by providing you the best deals on items that you can DE for profit, and likely yield reagents of value.
exactly, enchanting is only expensive if you plan to enchant things.
First, don't down rate me for asking.
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
Hatoa wrote:
First, don't down rate me for asking.
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
the excess is referring to mats that no longer gives you reliable skillups and is therefore useless to you.
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
WHY DO EXPERIENCED PLAYERS KEEP INSISTING THAT ENCHANTING IS EXPENSIVE? OK, I'll attribute this one to lack of knowledge or inability to read other threads. But I'm going to start downrating any post that perpetuates this urban myth. I didn't on this one, but be warned! It's plain disinformation, and it's wrong.
At 360 Enchanting, my current options to skill up are all niche enchants, and they are all exhorbitantly expensive. For the (almost) equally expensive but slightly more popular enchants, I have to grind level 70 instances hoping for the formulas to drop (ie. +35 Agility to 2h Weapon). While enchanting in the beginning was costly to level (opportunity cost) it was managable because I could get the greens cheap enough that when I'd get around to spamming enchants on my gear for skillups, it almost seemed like I was doing it for free.
Now, 200-300g worth of mats/enchant definately does qualify as expensive to level to cap, which is eventually where I'd expect to have to be to move forward with it if they raise the skill cap to 450 with WotLK.
So yes, it's not always as bad as people make it out to be, but I'm not sure I support your vehement stance in denouncing people for saying it can be very expensive because...well...it can be.
AureliusSir wrote:
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
WHY DO EXPERIENCED PLAYERS KEEP INSISTING THAT ENCHANTING IS EXPENSIVE? OK, I'll attribute this one to lack of knowledge or inability to read other threads. But I'm going to start downrating any post that perpetuates this urban myth. I didn't on this one, but be warned! It's plain disinformation, and it's wrong.
At 360 Enchanting, my current options to skill up are all niche enchants, and they are all exhorbitantly expensive. For the (almost) equally expensive but slightly more popular enchants, I have to grind level 70 instances hoping for the formulas to drop (ie. +35 Agility to 2h Weapon). While enchanting in the beginning was costly to level (opportunity cost) it was managable because I could get the greens cheap enough that when I'd get around to spamming enchants on my gear for skillups, it almost seemed like I was doing it for free.
Now, 200-300g worth of mats/enchant definately does qualify as expensive to level to cap, which is eventually where I'd expect to have to be to move forward with it if they raise the skill cap to 450 with WotLK.
So yes, it's not always as bad as people make it out to be, but I'm not sure I support your vehement stance in denouncing people for saying it can be very expensive because...well...it can be.
The thing is though, is that you do not need to level past 300 to de anything. Everything through level 70 epics can be DEed by someone with 300 enchanting skill. If you want to make money with enchanting you will not be selling the enchants, you will be disenchanting greens/blues and selling the mats.
Anobix wrote:
The thing is though, is that you do not need to level past 300 to de anything. Everything through level 70 epics can be DEed by someone with 300 enchanting skill. If you want to make money with enchanting you will not be selling the enchants, you will be disenchanting greens/blues and selling the mats.
Perhaps then we could clarify that leveling enchanting for the sole purpose of generating an income is not as expensive as some people might make it out to be.
Leveling enchanting like any other "production" profession is very expensive beyond a certain point. Failing to distinguish between the two might just add to the confusion, because when I look at the mountain of primals required for a lot of the enchants most likely to grant me a skillup today, the last thing that runs through my mind is "inexpensive".
Hatoa wrote:
First, don't down rate me for asking.
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
When you say use the mats to level and sell off excess, wouldn't you like use the excess to level up some more? Or bank it for future use?
Nope. As long as you keep disenchanting, there will always be excess. Even if you plan on enchanting for gold, put ALL of your mats up on the AH, and only enchant when the customer supplies the mats. Your profit will come from the mats, not the ****-poor excuses that are called "tips".
AureliusSir wrote:
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
WHY DO EXPERIENCED PLAYERS KEEP INSISTING THAT ENCHANTING IS EXPENSIVE? OK, I'll attribute this one to lack of knowledge or inability to read other threads. But I'm going to start downrating any post that perpetuates this urban myth. I didn't on this one, but be warned! It's plain disinformation, and it's wrong.
At 360 Enchanting, my current options to skill up are all niche enchants, and they are all exhorbitantly expensive. For the (almost) equally expensive but slightly more popular enchants, I have to grind level 70 instances hoping for the formulas to drop (ie. +35 Agility to 2h Weapon). While enchanting in the beginning was costly to level (opportunity cost) it was managable because I could get the greens cheap enough that when I'd get around to spamming enchants on my gear for skillups, it almost seemed like I was doing it for free.
Now, 200-300g worth of mats/enchant definately does qualify as expensive to level to cap, which is eventually where I'd expect to have to be to move forward with it if they raise the skill cap to 450 with WotLK.
So yes, it's not always as bad as people make it out to be, but I'm not sure I support your vehement stance in denouncing people for saying it can be very expensive because...well...it can be.
My response to Hatoa also applies to AureliusSir. You supply the skill, the customer supplies the mats. You'll end up making money, not losing it. So what if a recipe cost 1000G? A week of DE profits will make it up easily, and you don't have anything else to spend the gold on anyhow.
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 10:02:46am by ohmikeghod
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
My response to Hatoa also applies to AureliusSir. You supply the skill, the customer supplies the mats. You'll end up making money, not losing it. So what if a recipe cost 1000G? A week of DE profits will make it up easily, and you don't have anything else to spend the gold on anyhow.
Currently, nobody on my server is interested in Shadow Resistance, Arcane Resistance, or Cat's Swiftness. They'll take AP on Gloves/Bracers over Strength any day, regardless of class it would seem. If I could get my hands on +35 Agi -> 2h Weapon, that might help. The trouble lies in getting people to provide the mts...something which, on my realm, is nigh impossible.
I don't want to seem beligerant, but my sense is that you don't have capped enchanting skill @ 375, or you got it on a much more established server than mine. The point holds true: enchanting beyond a certain point is not cheap to level. If you're happy with one skillup ever 2-4 weeks when you're lucky enough to find that rare individual who will provide the mats, that's fine. That would mean 6-12+ months for me to cap my Enchanting. Can you think of other trade skills that would take that long to get 15 points?
AureliusSir wrote:
Can you think of other trade skills that would take that long to get 15 points?
Leatherworking? Primals FTL!
But, back on topic...I understand what you're saying about high end leveling and do kind of agree with you to an extent. Mats at that level do get costly. But, it also depends on how big of a hurry you are to level. In general, leveling enchanting should not be expensive if done patiently and by the methods mike advocates. I can definitely see where you can have trouble at the highest end if you don't have in-demand enchants to hawk and you may end up wasting enchants on your own gear. But, theoretically at least, the DE and sell excess mats method still works at those high levels, it just may take a while longer to accumulate mats and/or recoup the costs.
Market Cat's Swiftness, thats a good PVP enchant. I get boar's speed on every pair of boots I get.
Aurelius, I'd try grinding for some of these to skillup, as others will want them
Skill level 360
Enchant Boots Boar's Speed (+9 stam and minor run speed)
Enchant Bracer Spellpower (+15 spell damage)
Enchant Gloves Major Spellpower (+20 spell damage)
Enchant 2h Weapon Major Agility (+35 agility)
Even some of the others aren't bad, I could see a tank wanting 20 strength on his weapon maybe, and some casters would choose spell hit to gloves.
Those seem like the best ones at 360, I'd just try and grind those out to 375, even though they'll likely be yellow at 370. Just keep advertising, doing them for guildies, eventually you'll get them done.
Until then, no real rush if you dont need your ring enchants, and your guilds not raiding where certain 375 enchant patterns drop.
I think the 4 I listed would be your top sellers at 360 skill though. And keep trying to sell your good 350 enchants in trade, unless they're green.
Tons of good 350 enchants for an average crowd
2h weapon savagery
bracer fortitude (12 stam)
gloves major healing
weapon greater agility
weapon major healing
weapon major spellpower
Also you never find noobs selling blue level 64+ items for 4g, it just doesn't happen. At best you get your large prismatics through grinding instances or the 1% chance every DE. Each enchant needs 4-8, so you'd have to DE 400-800 level 64+ greens to get enough shards to burn ONE enchant, and thats just the shards.
I'm going to have to disagree, 350+ enchanting IS expensive. I dont care if you made gold while doing it, you're still losing a huge amount of oppurtunity cost. Just one of those things that irks me.
Like people saying "I didnt buy ANYTHING when I leveled tailoring, it wasnt expensive at all!". Great, you still could have SOLD that cloth and dust for 2400g, so in my eyes that lost oppurtunity cost means you're down 2400g.
Also the "farm your own everything" crowd never pay attention to gold per hour. Whats better - farming cloth and drops @ 60g worth of items per hour? Or farming primals for 120-180g per hour? Some people take the "NEVER BUY ANY MATS" thing waaaaay over the top, go farm primal fires for an hour, sell them, you'll buy 2-3 times as much cloth to level with.
Yes, you can take your time with enchanting, and not drop from 4000g to 200g. But add up the cost of mats you used to level, thats oppurtunity cost. Especially 300-375.
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 6:49:50pm by mikelolol
Aurelius, I'd try grinding for some of these to skillup, as others will want them
Skill level 360
Enchant Boots Boar's Speed (+9 stam and minor run speed)
Enchant Bracer Spellpower (+15 spell damage)
Enchant Gloves Major Spellpower (+20 spell damage)
Enchant 2h Weapon Major Agility (+35 agility)
Even some of the others aren't bad, I could see a tank wanting 20 strength on his weapon maybe, and some casters would choose spell hit to gloves.
Those seem like the best ones at 360, I'd just try and grind those out to 375, even though they'll likely be yellow at 370. Just keep advertising, doing them for guildies, eventually you'll get them done.
Until then, no real rush if you dont need your ring enchants, and your guilds not raiding where certain 375 enchant patterns drop.
I think the 4 I listed would be your top sellers at 360 skill though. And keep trying to sell your good 350 enchants in trade, unless they're green.
Tons of good 350 enchants for an average crowd
2h weapon savagery
bracer fortitude (12 stam)
gloves major healing
weapon greater agility
weapon major healing
weapon major spellpower
Also you never find noobs selling blue level 64+ items for 4g, it just doesn't happen. At best you get your large prismatics through grinding instances or the 1% chance every DE. Each enchant needs 4-8, so you'd have to DE 400-800 level 64+ greens to get enough shards to burn ONE enchant, and thats just the shards.
I'm going to have to disagree, 350+ enchanting IS expensive. I dont care if you made gold while doing it, you're still losing a huge amount of oppurtunity cost. Just one of those things that irks me.
Like people saying "I didnt buy ANYTHING when I leveled tailoring, it wasnt expensive at all!". Great, you still could have SOLD that cloth and dust for 2400g, so in my eyes that lost oppurtunity cost means you're down 2400g.
Also the "farm your own everything" crowd never pay attention to gold per hour. Whats better - farming cloth and drops @ 60g worth of items per hour? Or farming primals for 120-180g per hour? Some people take the "NEVER BUY ANY MATS" thing waaaaay over the top, go farm primal fires for an hour, sell them, you'll buy 2-3 times as much cloth to level with.
Yes, you can take your time with enchanting, and not drop from 4000g to 200g. But add up the cost of mats you used to level, thats oppurtunity cost. Especially 300-375.
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 6:49:50pm by mikelolol
AureliusSir wrote:
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
My response to Hatoa also applies to AureliusSir. You supply the skill, the customer supplies the mats. You'll end up making money, not losing it. So what if a recipe cost 1000G? A week of DE profits will make it up easily, and you don't have anything else to spend the gold on anyhow.
...and the difference between you providing the mats and them buying the mats (that you put up on the AH) is....? You provide the mats, whether they are on the AH or in your backpack. When you provide the mats, you will always get grumbles about expense and the chance that they will be able to talk your prices down (and lower your profit significantly). It's the road to the poorhouse, so I agree with you. Doing it your way really is expensive. But it doesn't have to be.
ohmikeghod the Venerable wrote:
...and the difference between you providing the mats and them buying the mats (that you put up on the AH) is....? You provide the mats, whether they are on the AH or in your backpack. When you provide the mats, you will always get grumbles about expense and the chance that they will be able to talk your prices down (and lower your profit significantly). It's the road to the poorhouse, so I agree with you. Doing it your way really is expensive. But it doesn't have to be.
I don't provide mats.
I don't recall having said that I do.
On my realm, finding people who will provide the mats is like pulling teeth, ergo enchants do not get done. Therefore, skillups are exceptionally few and far between.
And the reason this is so is because enchants above 350 skill usually involve a vast number of primals and shards. Occasionally, you get a sweet little enchant that only uses a handful of dusts and essences and...nobody wants those enchants. I spent 5 hours grinding Blood Elves in Netherstorm for +Healing -> Weapon. I spent 3 hours grinding Ethereals in Bash'ir Landing for the other uncommon BoP formula (didn't drop). Some people have fantastic luck, some have miserable luck. It's all part of the game. Even with those enchants, I've got to find someone willing to drop easily 200-300g on materials for an enchant. No tip/fee required. (Except for Cat's Swiftness. As far as I know, nobody else on my realm has the formula yet and twinks need love too (but they gotta pay)).
So again, we're back to the time/accomplishment scenario. Whether it's me not willing to spend the gold to spam enchants on myself, or other players not willing to spend the gold to provide the mats for the enchants that would give me skillups, the end result is exactly the same: the skillups don't happen.
Yes, I made a proverbial boatload of gold skilling enchanting so that I could D/E anything and everything I could get my hands on. My sense is that with WotLK I can expect to see a higher skill requirement to D/E 71-80 greens/etc. 325? 350 for WotLK epics? I would imagine it will fall somewhere in there. Heck, if you can find enough Nightmare Vines you can skill enchanting at a profit to 350. After that, here come the primals...loads, and loads, and loads of primals.
Did I mention the shards?
Let's not paint an overly rosy picture of the "ease" of leveling enchanting, because no matter how you slice it, post 350 it hurts.
Bad.
(Disclaimer: It probably hurts no less than any other profession 350+, which is why you won't see me starting any new threads to QQ about it. The point is that it falls well outside the bounds of "easy" or "cheap").
Here's what I'd do for last 15 points, alot depends on your rep
Keep grinding 40 spell damage to weapon enchant, it will drop eventually. Dont focus on your luck or whatever, its a random drop and it will drop. Probably a few more hours out there, heck it could your first kill.
This is a nice one to get since it will be in demand, mats are cheaper then cats swiftness, and its like a guaranteed buy for any dps caster (except some mages prefer 30 int, but most just go 40 spell damage).
OR-- if you have your heroic coilfang key (revered with CE) you can buy the spell hit to gloves enchant, which isn't terrible in terms of mats required
2 arcane dust
8 greater planar
2 large prismatics
Now almost nobody would want that enchant, but it seems like the cheapest enchant to burn on trash gloves. I mean I leveled to 320 before, and I never did a single enchant for anyone except the odd fiery for a skillup, I burned every single enchant on trash greys. I'm also taking this approach on my main.
Greater planars are easy to get from DE'ing for profit, just try to keep gold flow steady while you level those last few points. Seems like about a (5*8)+(2*2)+(2*15) gold enchant, 75 gold roughly. Yeah it sucks burning that on a pair of white vendor gloves, but eh..depends how bad you want 375 enchanting.
Personally I'll grind forever until 40 spell damage drops, and since I'm a caster/herbalist on my mage, I'll be making superior wizard oils until those green out for me.
But seriously, imo you'll see 10 people wanting 40 spell damage before you see 1 wanting cat's swiftness. Serious 29 twinks (with Pat Angle's fishing boots) can get that enchant, and its probably the best enchant in the bracket, but thats kind of a rare circumstance. Everyone wants 40 spell damage to weapon.
Theres also +20 spell damage to gloves, keepers of time honored. I believe I was honored simply from the kara attunement, but pugging that instance can be hell...
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 10:18:41pm by mikelolol
Keep grinding 40 spell damage to weapon enchant, it will drop eventually. Dont focus on your luck or whatever, its a random drop and it will drop. Probably a few more hours out there, heck it could your first kill.
This is a nice one to get since it will be in demand, mats are cheaper then cats swiftness, and its like a guaranteed buy for any dps caster (except some mages prefer 30 int, but most just go 40 spell damage).
OR-- if you have your heroic coilfang key (revered with CE) you can buy the spell hit to gloves enchant, which isn't terrible in terms of mats required
2 arcane dust
8 greater planar
2 large prismatics
Now almost nobody would want that enchant, but it seems like the cheapest enchant to burn on trash gloves. I mean I leveled to 320 before, and I never did a single enchant for anyone except the odd fiery for a skillup, I burned every single enchant on trash greys. I'm also taking this approach on my main.
Greater planars are easy to get from DE'ing for profit, just try to keep gold flow steady while you level those last few points. Seems like about a (5*8)+(2*2)+(2*15) gold enchant, 75 gold roughly. Yeah it sucks burning that on a pair of white vendor gloves, but eh..depends how bad you want 375 enchanting.
Personally I'll grind forever until 40 spell damage drops, and since I'm a caster/herbalist on my mage, I'll be making superior wizard oils until those green out for me.
But seriously, imo you'll see 10 people wanting 40 spell damage before you see 1 wanting cat's swiftness. Serious 29 twinks (with Pat Angle's fishing boots) can get that enchant, and its probably the best enchant in the bracket, but thats kind of a rare circumstance. Everyone wants 40 spell damage to weapon.
Theres also +20 spell damage to gloves, keepers of time honored. I believe I was honored simply from the kara attunement, but pugging that instance can be hell...
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 10:18:41pm by mikelolol
mikelolol wrote:
Keep grinding 40 spell damage to weapon enchant, it will drop eventually. Dont focus on your luck or whatever, its a random drop and it will drop. Probably a few more hours out there, heck it could your first kill.
Ya, I haven't given up on Bash'ir Landing ethereals. I just haven't been back up there for a few days. They're not bad grinding...relatively easy, decent trash drops, the occasional green to D/E and depleted crystal foci to put towards the summoned demon fight shennanigan. Overall I'm not too concerned about how long it takes to get the drop. It's just a question of the time involved. I have an engineer guildie who gets the schematic for Gyro Balanced Khorium Destroyer when they hit 375 engineering (major profit to be had on one of those). I get...nothing. I think the last trainer-sold formula I got was Prismatic Sphere. I entered Steam Vaults < 1200 rep from CE Revered tonight...after we called the run due to too much stupidity and I turned in my Armaments, I'm only 500 or so away now.
Quote:
Personally I'll grind forever until 40 spell damage drops, and since I'm a caster/herbalist on my mage, I'll be making superior wizard oils until those green out for me.
I spent 100g on two stackes of Nightmare Vine (very rare to find on AH on my realm) and skilled Superior Wizard Oil until they went grey. 40 Oil all told, selling on auction for 5g each. Not bad overall. I think I did +12 Strength spammed on gloves to 360 (primarily so I could use Cat's Swiftness formula @ 360). Now it's the rep grind/70 instance grind for most of the rest of the "good" enchants, barring ogres and ethereals in Blade's Edge.
Quote:
But seriously, imo you'll see 10 people wanting 40 spell damage before you see 1 wanting cat's swiftness. Serious 29 twinks (with Pat Angle's fishing boots) can get that enchant, and its probably the best enchant in the bracket, but thats kind of a rare circumstance. Everyone wants 40 spell damage to weapon.
On my realm, barring maybe 1 or 2 alliance side guilds, the playerbase is woefully unskilled and perpetually broke. I saw one guild in particular recruiting in Shattrath claiming to have cleared Kara and recently Gruul's Lair, and I've PUG'd instances like Steam Vaults and Mechanar with some of their members...they were terrible. It's a newer realm, and most of the level 70s are still grinding away for their epic flyers. Plunking down 150-200g+ for enchants on gear that they're going to replace fairly soon as they learn how to progress doesn't go over too well with any of them, and the ones that do see the benefit in tweaking for raids have enchanters in-guild to service their needs.
I have no real sense of urgency around capping enchanting...as far as I've seen, there's really no formulas beyond 360 that I'm likely to see any time soon that would justify forging ahead. All I'd getting for hitting 375 Enchanting would be a whopping cost (or lost opportunity cost) for the Runed Eternium Rod (wtf was Blizzard thinking? lol)
Edited, Aug 23rd 2007 10:41:16pm by AureliusSir
And +4 stats to your rings >_>
But yeah, I understand its not a huge rush.
Seriously I wish I could sell stacks of nightmare vine for 50g a pop O.O
Wizard oil is weird on my server, most days its 5-6g, some days its like 11. I do sell nightmare vine 30-35g a stack on average, jeez, 100g for 2, I should transfer over lol. Its like a local herb in shadowmoon....I wouldnt say its all over the place, but its not hard to find either. Usually a detailed lap around on my normal flyer gets me a stack before I head out. Since its used in wizard oil and major shadow power elixirs, I usually just farm enough for personal use, I dont really sell much.
But yeah, I understand its not a huge rush.
Seriously I wish I could sell stacks of nightmare vine for 50g a pop O.O
Wizard oil is weird on my server, most days its 5-6g, some days its like 11. I do sell nightmare vine 30-35g a stack on average, jeez, 100g for 2, I should transfer over lol. Its like a local herb in shadowmoon....I wouldnt say its all over the place, but its not hard to find either. Usually a detailed lap around on my normal flyer gets me a stack before I head out. Since its used in wizard oil and major shadow power elixirs, I usually just farm enough for personal use, I dont really sell much.
Blizz could really help solve a big part of the enchanting problem if they'd just make enchants a scroll you could sell on the AH. Then it becomes a commodity like any other profession's rather than a service, which is essentially what a lot of people view it as now. And, by viewing it as a service, they feel like it should be done on the cheap. You just don't hear people griping about the price of pots/elixirs or whatever the way they complain about the price of enchants. If the enchants could be sold on the AH and prices could basically become market price like any other crafted item, the problem would be solved, imo.
azwing wrote:
Blizz could really help solve a big part of the enchanting problem if they'd just make enchants a scroll you could sell on the AH. Then it becomes a commodity like any other profession's rather than a service, which is essentially what a lot of people view it as now. And, by viewing it as a service, they feel like it should be done on the cheap. You just don't hear people griping about the price of pots/elixirs or whatever the way they complain about the price of enchants. If the enchants could be sold on the AH and prices could basically become market price like any other crafted item, the problem would be solved, imo.
never really thought of that, but that is a good idea.
Blizz has said they want to keep enchanting a "social" profession on many occasions. If you're not making gold off enchanting, learn to disenchant. Scrolls would be a terrible idea, the market would get saturated, people would undercut, it would ruin disenchanting.
Look at all the other tradeskill professions where you have to grind out trash greens to skillup. I buy those trash greens everyday and disenchant them, the people leveling their professions all lose money.
Scrolls would ruin enchanting, nobody would buy mats and find enchanters anymore. They'd buy one of the 55 scrolls on the auction house instead, which with 100g worth of mats would sell for 42g, I guarantee it.
Look at all the other tradeskill professions where you have to grind out trash greens to skillup. I buy those trash greens everyday and disenchant them, the people leveling their professions all lose money.
Scrolls would ruin enchanting, nobody would buy mats and find enchanters anymore. They'd buy one of the 55 scrolls on the auction house instead, which with 100g worth of mats would sell for 42g, I guarantee it.
I don't know if that argument really holds up though, Mike.
This may be roundabout, but I'll try to outline my thoughts on why.
Question 1. Who buys the mats now?
Answer A. People looking to skill up enchanting.
Answer B. People looking to buy enchants from others.
Answer C. People looking to re-sell them for a profit.
Question 2. Would enchant scrolls affect the mat market?
Answer A people: No, they still need mats to skill up.
Answer B people: Not necessarily, because they could still take the mats to someone to have them make a scroll or enchant through the trade window as usual. If they can buy a scroll for cheaper, good for them. But how many people are going to post scrolls worth 8 Eternal Essences for 20 gold? I'd guess not a lot. Either that scroll will be a lot closer to the value of the Essences, or they'll have to buy the Essences to take to the enchanter.
Answer C people: No, because the nature of the economy says the market will probably not change much. People will try to undercut at a unsustainable margin, others will buy them out and profit.
Question 2. How would the demand for enchants change with scrolls compared to the current player to player interaction?
I think this is a "it depends" kind of answer, but I don't really think it would change a lot.
First, the low level enchants that nobody wants much aren't suddenly going to become in-demand because someone can list a scroll on the AH. So what if someone posts 100 scrolls for +1 Agi to Boots. That still means 100 enchants were done that used the same amount of Strange Dust. Also, even if people do buy the low end enchant scrolls, it simply means that someone is making a few copper or silver off an enchant that was probably a throw-away skill up. But, this doesn't affect the demand for enchanting mats.
Second, how would it affect high level enchants and mats? The same argument essentially applies. People may be able to make a few silver or even gold off enchants they basically throw away now just to get a skill point, but that doesn't change the demand for mats.
The other aspect is the undercutting you mentioned. How long do you think an undercutter can sustain the practice? If someone is selling enchants for 42g using enchants that are worth 100g, I'm guessing that seller won't be in the market very long. Some random might try to do it occassionally, but this is no different than the mat market now. Undercutters don't usually last long. Buy it up and re-sell it at the real value.
Besides, as it currently stands, people are free to give away enchants anyway (and often do for skill ups) with the current way of doing things. But, this doesn't impact the demand for mats.
As far as Blizz wanting to keep enchanting a "social" profession, I think that's largely a bunch a bunk anyway. It's no more or less social than any other profession. When people want/need something they advertise it publicly, or go to the AH. Enchanting just doesn't have the AH option right now.
Fundamentally, enchanting mats are used for:
A. Enchanters skilling up.
B. Enchanting gear.
I'm not including C. Day traders, because they're just shifting mats, not using them.
Either way, people will always want/need to skill up and to enchant gear. Putting enchants on scrolls would not change these two uses of mats. People can flood the market with +1 Agi to Boots all they want, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to buy them. And it doesn't change the fact that the next enchanter that comes along and needs to skill up with +1 Agi to Boots will need mats.
Anyway, food for thought...hopefully that made sense, it was a bit of edited stream of consciousness.
-Azwing
Edited, Aug 24th 2007 4:14:31pm by azwing
This may be roundabout, but I'll try to outline my thoughts on why.
Question 1. Who buys the mats now?
Answer A. People looking to skill up enchanting.
Answer B. People looking to buy enchants from others.
Answer C. People looking to re-sell them for a profit.
Question 2. Would enchant scrolls affect the mat market?
Answer A people: No, they still need mats to skill up.
Answer B people: Not necessarily, because they could still take the mats to someone to have them make a scroll or enchant through the trade window as usual. If they can buy a scroll for cheaper, good for them. But how many people are going to post scrolls worth 8 Eternal Essences for 20 gold? I'd guess not a lot. Either that scroll will be a lot closer to the value of the Essences, or they'll have to buy the Essences to take to the enchanter.
Answer C people: No, because the nature of the economy says the market will probably not change much. People will try to undercut at a unsustainable margin, others will buy them out and profit.
Question 2. How would the demand for enchants change with scrolls compared to the current player to player interaction?
I think this is a "it depends" kind of answer, but I don't really think it would change a lot.
First, the low level enchants that nobody wants much aren't suddenly going to become in-demand because someone can list a scroll on the AH. So what if someone posts 100 scrolls for +1 Agi to Boots. That still means 100 enchants were done that used the same amount of Strange Dust. Also, even if people do buy the low end enchant scrolls, it simply means that someone is making a few copper or silver off an enchant that was probably a throw-away skill up. But, this doesn't affect the demand for enchanting mats.
Second, how would it affect high level enchants and mats? The same argument essentially applies. People may be able to make a few silver or even gold off enchants they basically throw away now just to get a skill point, but that doesn't change the demand for mats.
The other aspect is the undercutting you mentioned. How long do you think an undercutter can sustain the practice? If someone is selling enchants for 42g using enchants that are worth 100g, I'm guessing that seller won't be in the market very long. Some random might try to do it occassionally, but this is no different than the mat market now. Undercutters don't usually last long. Buy it up and re-sell it at the real value.
Besides, as it currently stands, people are free to give away enchants anyway (and often do for skill ups) with the current way of doing things. But, this doesn't impact the demand for mats.
As far as Blizz wanting to keep enchanting a "social" profession, I think that's largely a bunch a bunk anyway. It's no more or less social than any other profession. When people want/need something they advertise it publicly, or go to the AH. Enchanting just doesn't have the AH option right now.
Fundamentally, enchanting mats are used for:
A. Enchanters skilling up.
B. Enchanting gear.
I'm not including C. Day traders, because they're just shifting mats, not using them.
Either way, people will always want/need to skill up and to enchant gear. Putting enchants on scrolls would not change these two uses of mats. People can flood the market with +1 Agi to Boots all they want, but that doesn't mean anyone is going to buy them. And it doesn't change the fact that the next enchanter that comes along and needs to skill up with +1 Agi to Boots will need mats.
Anyway, food for thought...hopefully that made sense, it was a bit of edited stream of consciousness.
-Azwing
Edited, Aug 24th 2007 4:14:31pm by azwing
People will flood the market with fiery enchants, those who patiently skill up providing their enchants will get run out of the market by idiots making 30 fiery scrolls and selling them at a huge loss.
Customers just WONT buy mats anymore. Maybe 10% will. The rest will wait on scrolls, or say ***** it until scrolls go up. Disenchanters will get impatient when their mats wont sell, so they will sell for cheaper on a whole. All the enchanting mats will go down in price. Greens will stay the same, but enchanting mats will go down.
Now -- cheaper mats, customers arent buying. Stupid enchanters (there would be PLENTY) will buyup these cheap mats, make a million fiery/40 spell damage scrolls, and undercut eachother in the pointless race to 375.
Anyway inscription in the new profession sounds sort of like what you're talking about. I'll leave you guys with that. Enchanting is FINE, I dont want any changes to it. I especially dont want to see enchanting scrolls on the AH -- if you cant find an enchanter the VERY SECOND you need some rare enchant, tough. Wait it out. Part of being a high level enchanter is having rare enchants. I wouldnt hope to see all my profits through these like some enchanters do, but a 10-20g tip is nice.
Why the heck would I go farm for hours for rare enchants when they arent rare anymore? Think about it. And you KNOW how manufacturing professions work, people are idiots. If it costs 50g in mats, lets sell it for 48g. But anyways, rare enchants. Lets say 10 people on a server have soulfrost, only 2 are online. Maybe neither are in a city. Some guy just bought his MATS off the AH, that I put up there, and he wants soulfrost NOW NOW NOW. Well...no enchanter is in a city right now, so he has to wait. I finally come around, see him spamming WTB SOULFROST MY MATS. I can actually make gold here, I say "sure I have soulfrost, your mats + 20g, come meet me in shatt". Those are my terms, I'm not coming to meet him, and he's paying me 20g.
With scrolls theres no rarity anymore. Maybe 1 person a DAY wants soulfrost, maybe less. But all it takes is 4 enchanters to put it up on the AH without thinking, and all of a sudden supply outweighs demand. You know what happens from here.
Customers just WONT buy mats anymore. Maybe 10% will. The rest will wait on scrolls, or say ***** it until scrolls go up. Disenchanters will get impatient when their mats wont sell, so they will sell for cheaper on a whole. All the enchanting mats will go down in price. Greens will stay the same, but enchanting mats will go down.
Now -- cheaper mats, customers arent buying. Stupid enchanters (there would be PLENTY) will buyup these cheap mats, make a million fiery/40 spell damage scrolls, and undercut eachother in the pointless race to 375.
Anyway inscription in the new profession sounds sort of like what you're talking about. I'll leave you guys with that. Enchanting is FINE, I dont want any changes to it. I especially dont want to see enchanting scrolls on the AH -- if you cant find an enchanter the VERY SECOND you need some rare enchant, tough. Wait it out. Part of being a high level enchanter is having rare enchants. I wouldnt hope to see all my profits through these like some enchanters do, but a 10-20g tip is nice.
Why the heck would I go farm for hours for rare enchants when they arent rare anymore? Think about it. And you KNOW how manufacturing professions work, people are idiots. If it costs 50g in mats, lets sell it for 48g. But anyways, rare enchants. Lets say 10 people on a server have soulfrost, only 2 are online. Maybe neither are in a city. Some guy just bought his MATS off the AH, that I put up there, and he wants soulfrost NOW NOW NOW. Well...no enchanter is in a city right now, so he has to wait. I finally come around, see him spamming WTB SOULFROST MY MATS. I can actually make gold here, I say "sure I have soulfrost, your mats + 20g, come meet me in shatt". Those are my terms, I'm not coming to meet him, and he's paying me 20g.
With scrolls theres no rarity anymore. Maybe 1 person a DAY wants soulfrost, maybe less. But all it takes is 4 enchanters to put it up on the AH without thinking, and all of a sudden supply outweighs demand. You know what happens from here.
I just can't see that happening over a sustained period, though.
The cost of high end enchants or rare mats is too much for people to flood the market. And, the demand won't sustain multiple people posting forever either (especially if you put a deposit charge on enchant scrolls). Take crafted twink gear as an analogy. Say you make 10 Deviate Scale Belts. You can try to post those all at once, but they won't sell. You end up eating the deposit cost on most of them because they don't sell. You can lower your price and hope multiples sell, but it's still unlikely because the demand isn't that great. Instead, if you post say one Deviate Scale Belt per week you're much more likely to make a sale. Sure, there may be an undercutter come along behind you, but such is a free market. A "rare" enchant is pretty much the same.
Take Greater Eternal Essence as an example of a high end mat (I know it's not the highest end, but it works for an example). I have watched this market fluctuate from 1 or 2 postings one day, to 20-30 posting a few days later. I've watched the market run from 6.5-12g. But, those are deviations. Inevitably, the market stabilizes at about 8-8.5g with about 10 posting. Peoples' ability to manipulate the market is limited by both supply and demand. They can't control the supply enough to flood and dominate the market (sustainably). I would say most of the high end enchants/mats would behave similarly. Peoples' ability to control the flow of say Large Prismatic Shards is similarly limited.
I'd also put a deposit cost on the scroll to discourage endless posting and I also think it would discourage undercutters from continously posting. Who's going to post a Fiery enchant that won't sell for days and days while deposit charges roll up?
The cost of high end enchants or rare mats is too much for people to flood the market. And, the demand won't sustain multiple people posting forever either (especially if you put a deposit charge on enchant scrolls). Take crafted twink gear as an analogy. Say you make 10 Deviate Scale Belts. You can try to post those all at once, but they won't sell. You end up eating the deposit cost on most of them because they don't sell. You can lower your price and hope multiples sell, but it's still unlikely because the demand isn't that great. Instead, if you post say one Deviate Scale Belt per week you're much more likely to make a sale. Sure, there may be an undercutter come along behind you, but such is a free market. A "rare" enchant is pretty much the same.
Take Greater Eternal Essence as an example of a high end mat (I know it's not the highest end, but it works for an example). I have watched this market fluctuate from 1 or 2 postings one day, to 20-30 posting a few days later. I've watched the market run from 6.5-12g. But, those are deviations. Inevitably, the market stabilizes at about 8-8.5g with about 10 posting. Peoples' ability to manipulate the market is limited by both supply and demand. They can't control the supply enough to flood and dominate the market (sustainably). I would say most of the high end enchants/mats would behave similarly. Peoples' ability to control the flow of say Large Prismatic Shards is similarly limited.
I'd also put a deposit cost on the scroll to discourage endless posting and I also think it would discourage undercutters from continously posting. Who's going to post a Fiery enchant that won't sell for days and days while deposit charges roll up?
Well I'd hope theres a serious deposit on them, but even that wouldnt stop most people. Look at all the people who list a 67 mace of the whale with a 3.3g deposit -- they try and sell it for 5g....
Dont even get me started on people who auction the uncut gems for less then vendor. Hmm...25s vendor price. 12s deposit. Lets list it for 23 silver.
Dont even get me started on people who auction the uncut gems for less then vendor. Hmm...25s vendor price. 12s deposit. Lets list it for 23 silver.
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