The short end of the..."encahnting rod"Follow

I didn't read the whole thread but just the first 5-6 posts or so. I to have a chanter and I too think that there should be some changes. I've found two things that could work.

1. Same as it is now. Everyong rolls for a shard. But everyone also rolls for ore and leather. Simple and wouldn't need bliz to do anything about it.

2. Make chanting mats BoP. Bliz would have to get involved on this one.

I didn't "kill" it. If that where to take place then there could be changes in the game to meet that. Ok, lets say only shards are BoP. And lets say that bosses can drop shards like they do nethers and vortexs as well as DEing things. All that would do is make it where I know get more then 2g for doing spellpower.

You can say that enchanters can save up mats and do the enchants with their own mats to make more money, but that's pointless. I can get more money from the shards in the AH then I can using them to chant someone.

Don't get my wrong about not being able to make money with enchanting. While leveling you can make crap tons. DEing all the quest rewards you won't use = assloads of gold. But when you hit 70 it's impossilbe. We don't have nodes to go looking for. Every day I spend 1 full hour at BT farming Scryer rep. Non stop killing of BEs. The last 3 hours spent there have yeilded 2 greens to DE. Compare that to 3 hours of gathering herbs, mining nodes, or killing mobs and skinning them and see how much money you get to my 5 dusts and 1 essence.

Enchanting is a gather/crafting prof in one. If you want to level BS you go mine and level it yourself. If you want money you sell your ore. Enchanters as it is now cannot farm mats to sell or level the profession at lvl 70.

You compare enchanting to mining/skinning/herbalism. But there's a difference.
If I don't pick that Ancient Litchen, no-one gets anything. But if you don't disenchant an item, we still can roll and vendor it for some gold.

In other words: if I pick a herb, I don't withhold you anything. But if you claim all the items for disenchanting and keep the shards, you withhold me money.



Exactly.
That would be the same as a rogue claiming all the content of a locked chest.

they need the shard for enchants. so, yes, they Need the LPS.

nobody does enchants with the enchanter's mats... 99.99% of the time they are expect to bring mats to the enchanter

even if they were just selling them, more LPS on AH means lower prices. prices would be 40g each if only enchanter could provide LPS's.

if no disenchanter, then whoever wins the roll still gets some gold when they vendor it. if no miner or herbalist, then nobody gets anything. by DEing, you're taking away their chance at a little gold, for a chance at the LPS.

the best part is, you don't HAVE to DE for groups. it's your choice. you can /greed like everyone else.

lastly:

tip your disenchanter. i do. they turn 4g into 20g... i think 2g is a small price for the conversion.

This has been discussed before and the general consensus is that if it bothers you, don't offer to D/E the item. Roll Greed with the rest of the party and anything you get, D/E after the run. Problem solved. Nobody in the group has the right to compel you to D/E anything, just like nobody in the group has the right to compel a miner to go mine a node and let the party roll on the ore/gems/motes that come out of it.

Of course, if someone in the group knows you're an enchanter capable of D/Eing anything in the dungeon and you refuse to do so, the "common practice" of enchanters D/Eing Greed blues will likely explode in your face and people will be most unhappy with you if you tell them there will be no shards coming from you on that particular run.

My Runed Eternium Rod has seen many a Kara epic reduced to a Void Crystal, and even more dungeon blues to Large Prismatic Shards and ya, at times I was resentful that some scrub in the party was getting a 15-20g item that he would in turn go undercut me on AH in his rabid adolescent desire for some goldz to offset his repair bill after his next epic Xroads raid, but I also know there were I lot of people that received shards from me that stuck them in the bank to save towards their next major enchant. What they do with the shard is really none of my business. Just because I made it doesn't entitle me to dictate what happens to it.

My view on this issue:

When killing a mob that drops a BoP item, everyone in the group had a hand in said killing. Everyone is entitled to the BoP item (unless someone needs it).

When in a group and a mining node or herb spawn comes around, you have no involvement in mining/picking said node.

Some are going to make the arguement that they helped kill the previous trash mobs/ bosses to get to this point. My take on it is that you did so to get to the point in the instance where you are, not to get to that specific node/spawn.

If I'm a non-enchanter and I fought with the group to get to a specific boss, I share the same entitlement to what the boss drops. If there is an enchanter that doesn't want to de the item so I can get a little more gold from it, fine, thats their right. But they don't have the right to more entitlement to that item than me.

I myself picked enchanting as a profession. When in a group, I take no issue in DEing a drop that someone else won (meaning the second (true) roll for the resulting mat.

Thats my philosophy and two cents. Everyone is entitled to their own opinion and if a group the OP joins is ok with his stance, then more power to them.

*edited because I thought of a question to the OP and those that share his view*

When in a group with a person who skins, and they skin a mob and get a piece of leather worth 8 gold (not sure if any leather sells for that high since I've never had a skinner or leather wearing class), do you say "You are a skinner and LW so you have more right to it than I do even though I helped you kill the mob"?

Edited, Mar 12th 2008 12:10pm by cpcjlc

Well forgive me for posting if I'm adding to the Necro, (and this is the first I came upon this thread, with it only on the 2nd page) but I do have some points to add.

I understand where the OP is coming from sorta-kinda, but not really.

I'm an enchanter/tailor on my main. Now I could whine that whenever cloth drops I should have the ability to need it. After all, I do NEED cloth to support and level my profession. However there are others who also need that cloth, whether they're leveling their first aid, just trying to have enough bandages to take care of themselves or trying to gather the mats so that a tailor like me can make an item for them.

Personally, the only things I need on are items that are directly useful to my character such as weapons, armor or recipes.

Let me also point out that other professions/classes need enchanting supplies. Off the top of my head, a bottomless bag needs 2 large brilliant shards and my dreadsteed quest required 6 large brilliant shards. I know I have a few other tailoring recipes that call for enchanting mats, but I can't think of them atm. I also know that some of my alts' professions require shards and such. And yes, if folks are to afford enchants, they'll often need shards/dust/essences also.

Now, do you HAVE to announce that you're an enchanter, and de items so the group can roll on them? Absolutely not. However I personally regard any instance/group as just that - a group effort. If I can help the folks I'm running with by deing unneeded items and turning them into something thats valuable to all the players, why not? If there wasn't an enchanter in the group everyone would roll greed on the item and vendor it. Since I can de those items, I can help everyone I'm running with possibly make a little more money when they sell their items.

What's the problem really? Since you can't de BOP items after they're picked up, you're not going to make any money by deing the items after they're won by the folks you're running with. Helping the rest of the folks in your group by deing those items and then having everyone roll on them (and potentially sell them for a greater-than-vendor-profit) will merely make others happy for your help and more willing to group with you in the future.

What is the price on having a good group of friends who will help you in later quests? Yes it took you (and me) money to level up our enchanting/disenchanting. However now that you're there, it takes you about 30 seconds or less to disenchant an item so that everyone in the group - including you - can roll on it and hope to get a better profit.

Back to the goodwill factor: In the end it pays off. I've run quests with PUGS who've been happy with my basic generosity (which isn't really generosity, just being friendly) and I've since been able to rely on them for future groups, getting help with quests they've already finished as well as the fact that sometimes they even remember me and send me gifts of mats or armor/weapons, or whom, when they need an enchanter, will remember me and have me do it for them - which sometimes results in a tip and other times a skillup.

WHY HAS THIS TOPIC BEEN NECROED YET AGAIN?

I don't disenchant for pugs ... friends and guildies only.

The fact is, a miner doesn't mine the ore and the entire group gets to roll on the loot which he must then hand over. An herbalist doesn't. Etc and so forth. As the group moves through the instance, every other profession takes what it needs.

But an enchanter is "expected" to use their profession to service the group. No other profession is expected to do such a thing.

Too many enchanters believe that it's a requirement on their part to do this service. And often times it's demanded if you are known as an enchanter. If we don't do this for the group we're "not nice" people and deserve bad karma.


Pfft. I keep it all at greed. Whomever wins the item, so be it.


If it were a generally accepted idea to tip the enchanter at the end of a run as a means of saying "thank you" for upping the value of the dropped items, I would be more than happy to disenchant. The tip doesn't have to be high, either. Just a gesture of thanks.

I don't need to be told I'm not nice, when I have never, ever seen anyone in a group even say "thank you" to the enchanter for disenchanting items.

On my server that 6g blue item turns into an 18-23g LPS.

An engineer who pulls out a repair bot will definitely get tipped and often thanked by many people who have not made a profit, only received a convenience. Yes definitely tip and thank that engineer.

I don't expect the same tip amount but the thanks would be a pleasant change.

In my experience, i rarely see enchanters doing enchants for people with without the person supplying his/her own mats when we are not enchanters. So if the enchanters are not using their mats for the enchants, where are they going..... to the AH where we buy them at ridiculous prices from the enchanters who we then pay more ridiculous prices to just to use the mats we bought to get an enchant. If you feel like you should get to need roll for BoP's that nobody else needs just so you can get the mats, then lower your frickin prices.