controlling the marketFollow

Yeah, I think your screwed as copper is way too easy to get. You might be able to make most of your money back, but I can pick up about 4-5 stacks of copper pretty quickly, and so can most other people :( You should have gone after silver...

Also prepare to get flamed endlessly for cornering the market.

Eh... it's just 60g... cut your losses and stop buying. Send them all to alts and sell them slowly. You don't want to saturate the market. You picked the wrong thing to corner hehe, definitely has to be something more rare/harder to get than copper. Truesilver maybe, higher end gems, yes, copper... no. Even mithril and thorium are too easy to get for the level 60s for you to corner the market. Mithril is the easiest for me to sell on whisperwind, it sells for almost the exact same ammount as thorium. And, while there wont be any crystals dropping from it, I can usually farm 4-5 stacks in the time it takes me to farm 1 or 2 stacks of thorium. In the process I usually also get 3-4 stacks of iron.

If you're on an older server and at or close to 60 and looking for a way to make that money back quick, take everything out of your bags that you don't need and go run wailing caverns, deadmines, scarlet monistary, razorfen, etc... solo. Older servers have a lot of level 60s working on their twinks. Low level blues (and many greens) sell for a ton. Do I feel bad about selling things like little timmy's peashooter for 75g (lvl 16 blue gun). Or the butcher (lvl 26 sword - not exactly sure of the name) for 100g. Nope not a bit, atleast not as bad as I would if I had a twink.

Heh, this reminds me of the time i bought all the Linen cloth stacks under 30s and sold all at 35s.... all at once.... made like..... 2g+ profit for like.... 20 mins of work?

Not only that, but they help everyone else with the same item for sale. Copper bar for a gold? Wee! I sell all mine for 90 silver.

I find reagants are good to control. Elemental Fire usually goes for about 60s on my server, so i bought them all out and put them on as 1g each. All sold :) Reagants are good because so many proffessions use them.

ugh

yup but your type hates it,

Play the game, kill mobs, sell stuff, and dont try and "Out smart" somebody. This whole gambit of daytrading/controlling the market is nothing more than a player thingking they are "Special" that somehow their smarts/brillant idea/moms love is so important that they are more deserving of someing without having to play the game to get it.

My opinion that you should not try and Secrew with econmies so that you dont have to work very hard while others now have to carry your weight is not limited to me. I may have a bigger voice about it, but I know plenty of folks in game that will go out of their way to make theese guys pay. Personaly I find that just as rediclous as the price "Fixing" in the first place. I have a guildie that will buy out the "More expensive" that the Trader did not buy, and post them under the price, but not enuff that the posting cost would be advantagous to buy and repost(without loosing money), He dose this to "Teach a Lesson". I find both realy stupid, What was wrong with the way they put in the game to make money? will any "Daytrader" awnser? realy, why should "you" be making money on others work?

jdtschida, that was not a awnser, noplace in your post did you explain why



you took the time to quote me, but never anwserd the quetion of why You deserve to make that money off somebody elses work, you justfied being greedy as


so it seems stupid to let somebody sell someng for a fair price? becasue it was not high enuff for you? This is greed, palin and simple, if you want to reply, awnser the quietion. Dancing arround in circlesl about your justificaion is one thing, but you are doign just that, danging.



Once agian, Why is any given "Daytrader" more entitled to that money form "Underpriced"(a BS term) than any other perosn, when the Day trader knows they didnt do jack to get it? o Yea I know, it is Geeed, Glad to know what you embrace as "Values".

The AH is just another part of the game to be played. Play it well, and it will reward you. If you'd rather spend your time keeling than scanning and relisting, that's your choice. Frankly, I don't understand the vehemence with which some people respond to the fine art of daytrading. The game is not some kind of commie utopia that Capitolg seems to yearn for. Your argument is akin to a farmer (real life, not of the Asian variety) getting upset that the Piggly Wiggly is selling his tomatoes for more than he was paid for them.

Comrade, I didn't see a class listed in your profile, so here's a hypothetical. You're a level 47 mage, and you stumble across a Glowing Brightwood on the AH one day for 10g buyout. Obviously this is a mistake, or someone doesn't know the value of what they have. Do you buy it?

Now, what if you're a rogue, and you come across the same posting? That's a quick ~500 g to be had, but you don't take it because you don't want to be greedy, and would rather get back to picking flowers in Swamp of Sorrows?

If you'd buy in either scenario, it's just a matter of degree until you're daytrading. At what point do your principles kick in? 100g? 50? 10? To paraphrase Churchill, we've already established you're a *****, we're now just haggling over the price.

Another corallary of your argument addresses posting the items you've farmed on the AH. Are you "greedy" if you list the items at what the market will bear? Should you list them lower than market value so as not to slip into the trap of greed?

Adam Smith is crying somewhere.

Heh. I wouldn't blame your poor English for not understanding some of these posts.

It's the same argument over trying to control auction house prices, relisting mispriced items, and the concept of "fairness" that everyone has an opinion on.

I'll relist some points I believe I've made before.

(1) You cannot control a market without controlling production.

(2) For every greedy seller, there is a greedy buyer who wants to purchase something they cannot afford.

(3) Every buyer buys every item for less than that item is worth to him (assuming rational behavior).

(4) Temporary dislocations can and do exist. If no one else is selling Stonescale Oil, I can sell mine at 3 gold each. After a few days, others will see my gravy train and begin undercutting me (getting the price back down to its normal 1g each).

(5) Prices fluctuate, sometimes predictably! For example, a stack of stranglekelp sells for 1.5g on the weekends and 4g mid-week on my server. Every week this happens. Guess when I unload my saved stranglekelp?

(6) Producers have the advantage. Using the above example, I collect kelp. Someone, I'm sure, buys it on the weekend at 1.5g and resells it mid-week at 4g. I paid nothing (but time) for mine, so I'm a happy clam selling mine mid-week for 3.5g. By the weekend, us producers have knocked the price back down to 1.5g and the cycle starts anew.

(7) What is, is. Sure, Savory Deviate Delight should sell for a gold each, but a stack of five is always 95s on my server. No one cares what it should cost.

(8) It takes money to make money. "WTS Arcanite Transmute 3g" Let's see...an arcane crystal costs 19g, a bar of thorium costs 30s, and arcanite bars are selling for no less than 28g (usually 30g). Evidently, that alchemist doesn't have 20g on him (or is being irrational..you know alchemists). Once he can afford the materials, you're not going to see his cut-rate transmute message any more.

Nothing is wrong with playing the auction house. It's not exactly an easy science to learn anyway. It actually takes some "real" knowledge and skill to make money on a consistant basis. Knowing what to buy, how much to put up quantity wise, what times are best for selling, etc... I do make money gathering on my new alt/main doing herb and skinning. I also collect cloth and buy items low and sell them high on the AH. All of them make me some decent money. Once you have a nice little stock pile of gold it gets easier and easier to make a profit. Welcome to the United States - we're not in China boys, play nice.

Remember the value of an item is determined by the price someone else is willing to pay for it. That's not greed, it's the way the economy works - in real life and in the game.

the knuckel - very good post.

I also wanted to repeat some points I had made before.

1) The correct term for people who operate the AH in the sense we have discussed is "marketmaker".

2) Without marketmakers you would find very huge price-fluctuations on even the most common items.

3) Marketmakers add stability to the market and without them you would get alot of lost deposits, and you wouldn't have a clue what the "so called correct price" is of an item - you wud just have to guess, and alot of the time you'd list too low and lose a lot of money.

4) Marketmakers are like estate agents or used-car salesment - we hate them because they make money without seeming to actually add any value - well the value they add is listed above.

5) Price manipulation is wrong and illegal in many countries. But as we know - you can't control a market completely without controlling production. When someone tries to control a market they take a risk.

5a) When George Soros played against the Bank of England he did it because he felt that the BoE had misjudged the value of the Pound. Economics shows us thay they had indeed misjudged it's value. But George Soros stood to lose billions if he was wrong. He took risks and he punished an organisation that was trying to fix a market price themselves.

The point of that is people cornering the market are doing so without controlling the means of production - and hence take a huge risk themselves. If they buy too high and production rises - they will lose the money. Like fruit machines - you hear about the winners but you don't hear about the losers.

6) If you think the market makers are not providing a convinient service - stand in a city all day on the trade channel - and get the best prices urself. You won't - of course not - you want the convinience of a quick sale - and just remind me who you think is doing that for you ?