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gnomish v. goblin engineeringFollow
Playing on a pvp server, does one have an advantage over the other?
I changed my mine.,..GOblin definetly for PvP, Nets, Death rays, Auras of invunerability, battle chickens. The list gose on, goblin is only good for explosions
Quote:
I changed my mine.,..GOblin definetly for PvP, Nets, Death rays, Auras of invunerability, battle chickens. The list gose on, goblin is only good for explosions
The above poster meant Gnomish. I agree. I prefer Gnomish myself, but to be fair, I have not tried to Goblin.
Having come in and commented so meny times on this exact topic, the awnser the OP seeks cannot be found here, well not with more info. For some classes it is clear cut, for other classes it is fuzzy, and for pallies it is just that you ARE able to start a fight off at range.
LockeColeMA- For example he said he prefers gnomish, Well ya, he is a lock(I made the same choice on my lock)So a few extra bombs, and some AoE is not too tempting to him, and rightfully so, warlocks can do AoE quite well and dont realy need a buff to it, in the warlock case, stuff like Death ray is more relevent as a soul link lock can mitigate Death ray dammage, a pet can be saced, and then use MC hat to grab a new "Pet".
My hunter on the other had, has Aimed Shot, and has theirfore completly removed the relvance of say, the death ray(they do about the same dammage, but Aimed Shot has a longer range, casts faster, and dose no dammage to the player). My hunter has volly, but the cooldown stops me form being terribly effective, well bombs are great for classes with little to no AoE, as well as the draggon gun form goblin dose something that is a beautfull AoE for my hunter, A Cone of Fire.
For those a little less savy on engineering:Think of the end.
Having been in a thred exactly like this some 200 times, I see the same statment posted time and time again"Goblin is for bombs, and gnomihs is for cool toys" or even more rediclous stuff like.
When it comes down to picking a spec ask yourself what is the one thing i want form this? Essentaly it boils down to a choice of a Dragon gun(AoE)or a Death ray(Single target), so meny of the items made by one side of the profession can be used by the other with the exeption of a hand full of items, most items are BoE not BoP.
Here is a list of BoE engenering items
Gnomish Shrink Ray
Goblin Mortar
Goblin Sapper Charge
Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector
Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt
Gnomish Mind Control Cap
The Big One
Goblin Rocket Boots
Gnomish Rocket Boots
Goblin Rocket Helmet
Wow thats a lot of cross path commerse,the only items that are relevent that are BoP are the death ray and dragon gun, and any body who has used a bomb dispencer knows it outdammages the battle chicken any day of the week.
LockeColeMA- For example he said he prefers gnomish, Well ya, he is a lock(I made the same choice on my lock)So a few extra bombs, and some AoE is not too tempting to him, and rightfully so, warlocks can do AoE quite well and dont realy need a buff to it, in the warlock case, stuff like Death ray is more relevent as a soul link lock can mitigate Death ray dammage, a pet can be saced, and then use MC hat to grab a new "Pet".
My hunter on the other had, has Aimed Shot, and has theirfore completly removed the relvance of say, the death ray(they do about the same dammage, but Aimed Shot has a longer range, casts faster, and dose no dammage to the player). My hunter has volly, but the cooldown stops me form being terribly effective, well bombs are great for classes with little to no AoE, as well as the draggon gun form goblin dose something that is a beautfull AoE for my hunter, A Cone of Fire.
For those a little less savy on engineering:Think of the end.
Having been in a thred exactly like this some 200 times, I see the same statment posted time and time again"Goblin is for bombs, and gnomihs is for cool toys" or even more rediclous stuff like.
Quote:
goblin is only good for explosions
When it comes down to picking a spec ask yourself what is the one thing i want form this? Essentaly it boils down to a choice of a Dragon gun(AoE)or a Death ray(Single target), so meny of the items made by one side of the profession can be used by the other with the exeption of a hand full of items, most items are BoE not BoP.
Here is a list of BoE engenering items
Gnomish Shrink Ray
Goblin Mortar
Goblin Sapper Charge
Gnomish Net-o-Matic Projector
Gnomish Harm Prevention Belt
Gnomish Mind Control Cap
The Big One
Goblin Rocket Boots
Gnomish Rocket Boots
Goblin Rocket Helmet
Wow thats a lot of cross path commerse,the only items that are relevent that are BoP are the death ray and dragon gun, and any body who has used a bomb dispencer knows it outdammages the battle chicken any day of the week.
Capitolg wrote:
Having come in and commented so meny times on this exact topic, the awnser the OP seeks cannot be found here, well not with more info.
Yes, I'm sure you get a lot of regurgitated posts in this forum, I did not find an engineering forum, just a tradeskill general. I'm sure you're used to it by now. Nonetheless, thankyou for the info. The toon with engineering is also a hunter, and you've given me much to consider.
Quote:
LockeColeMA- For example he said he prefers gnomish, Well ya, he is a lock(I made the same choice on my lock)So a few extra bombs, and some AoE is not too tempting to him, and rightfully so, warlocks can do AoE quite well and dont realy need a buff to it, in the warlock case, stuff like Death ray is more relevent as a soul link lock can mitigate Death ray dammage, a pet can be saced, and then use MC hat to grab a new "Pet".
Capitolg, as usual, hit the nail on the head :-P My Warlock has no need for too much extra damage; by the time I hit 60 and get some damage gear, my Death Ray will be useless, as my normal Shadowbolt will do only slightly less than the DR, will do it faster, and will do no damage to me.
One thing to keep in mind when using engineering though: all explosives (grenades, bombs, and dynamite) are on a minute timer. This timer also affects other items (for example, Crystal Charge: http://wow.allakhazam.com/db/item.html?witem=11566). So, you're only getting a couple hundred damage extra per minute.
Also, explosives are obviously consumable, making higher items like Dark Iron Grenades expensive to make. For some this may not matter; for others, it is an important consideration.
In my case, that's why I took gnomish engineering: I like effects better than pure damage from a consumable source. Yes, I can still get gnomish "effect" items as a goblin engineer; but it is a lot easier to be able to make them myself. As I said, I have little reason for extra damage, but I love extra effects. At level 46, I still use Iron Grenades because they are cheap and have a 3-second stun effect. Plus, they can be thrown while running. Will I upgrade? Doubtful; 2 seconds more of a stun and 200-300 more damage just isn't worth the extra cost for me. As it is, I use my grenades as a counter-spell; my DoTs wreck the stun instantly, but it interrupts a spell cast.
Instead of saying that goblin is all bombs, it is more appropriate to say Gnomish is "effect" items (usually trinkets) with longer cooldowns, and Goblin items are more straight damage/stuns that are consumable. Both of these are generalizations, but they have a basis in fact.
Quote:
Having come in and commented so meny times on this exact topic, the awnser the OP seeks cannot be found here, well not with more info. For some classes it is clear cut, for other classes it is fuzzy, and for pallies it is just that you ARE able to start a fight off at range.
I completely agree ^_^
Lol. Thankyou both very much. Locke, since you do gnomish, can you tell me if the mind control cap is usefull? You most likely have a fear spell anyway, but for a non fearing class, is it worthwhile?
If anyone knows of a forum or website containing the general success rate of engineered items in general, I'd be most gratefull.
If anyone knows of a forum or website containing the general success rate of engineered items in general, I'd be most gratefull.
Quote:
Lol. Thankyou both very much. Locke, since you do gnomish, can you tell me if the mind control cap is usefull? You most likely have a fear spell anyway, but for a non fearing class, is it worthwhile?
If anyone knows of a forum or website containing the general success rate of engineered items in general, I'd be most gratefull.
If anyone knows of a forum or website containing the general success rate of engineered items in general, I'd be most gratefull.
I have no used the cap yet, though I really want to :-P. I'm not sure if you can when you have a pet out, see. What I do know is that the mind control cap is different than a Priest's Mind Control; basically you get a pet bar, allowing you to choose your charmed foe to attack, stay, or follow (just like a real pet). The enemy AI will then use whatever it thinks will help you the most.
This isn't too too dangerous in PvP, since most people will have no idea what the pet bar is for the first 10 seconds or so, thus wasting most of the effect. But, keep in mind that there is a 30 minute cooldown on the cap, so unequip it immediately after using it. In PvE, this cap could potentially be deadly, as the computer knows exactly what to do to royally ***** your party over if the cap misfires ;-).
Success ratings, I haven't heard of anything yet, sorry. All I know is that Goblin Jumper Cables have a notoriously low rate of success...
LockeColeMA wrote:
[quote]Lol. All I know is that Goblin Jumper Cables have a notoriously low rate of success...
Meh, figures.
The reason I ask about the mind control cap isn't necessarily hardcore pvp, I've heard before that you can speak with the opposite faction when controlling one using the /em. Whether or not thats true, I'm interested in testing the theory. Granted thats not the only use I'd go for gnomish, trinkets galore has a certain allure to it as well.
Scholar
16 posts
Quote:
Well ya, he is a lock(I made the same choice on my lock)So a few extra bombs, and some AoE is not too tempting to him, and rightfully so, warlocks can do AoE quite well and dont realy need a buff to it, in the warlock case, stuff like Death ray is more relevent as a soul link lock can mitigate Death ray dammage, a pet can be saced, and then use MC hat to grab a new "Pet".
That could be true. I'm a warlock though, and I still intend to go Goblin, need the AoE or not. I don't really care about the Gnomish Death Ray too much, and I doubt I'll use the Goblin Dragon Gun much either, but the Dragon Gun has a higher cool factor with the flames. The Bomb Dispensor is supposedly better than the Battle Chicken also. I have a Gnomish engineering friend who can supply me with the tradeable gadgets.
Strangely (apparantly, judging by what everyone has said), I'm choosing Goblin for it's Rocket Boots, which I believe are superior to the Gnomish ones by 10% speed and by 25 minutes less cooldown, and for the Goblin Mortar Launcher. The Launcher is instant, and still has a 5 (I think it's 5, correct me if I'm wrong) second STUN, not daze, effect. It's true that both of these can be used by a gnomish engineer, but a Goblin engineer can make the boots for his friends as well as himself (even though they eventually explode), and the Mortar Launcher, though Gnomish can use it, is not cost effective, since they'll have six shots and then have to get a whole new launcher. Goblin Engineers can refill theirs very cheaply - along the lines of a mithril bar and some solid blasting powder I think, which for the effect (somewhere around Thorium Grenade power, I think, plus the stun) seems to be much better economy than Iron Grenades. Plus with the Goblin Sapper charges (which would be annoying to restock on for Gnomish!), you can Kamikaze yourself if you're about to die,and perhaps take them with you.
Also, I have a question to contribute.. The Goblin Sapper charges are all fire damage, yes? I'm demonology, so if I were to have the felhunter out for the resistance, soul link on for more of it, and the construction helmet (the helmet with fire resist) or fire goggles on, plus maybe some other fire resist items, would this significantly reduce the amount of damage I would take from it? Could I ever have enough resistance to lower the damage below 100 done to myself?
((Take in mind only a small amount of what I have said comes from direct experience with engineering. Most of it is based on research, which could be flawed in some points.))
The MC hat- If you are a lock, this can be a PITA, but if you can Sac your pet, all of the sudden it becomes gravy again, My main use in PvP is to sac pet, vw usualy, either sheild or HP regen, then MC one guy and pile on the other. The Goods, Well the stats of the cap realy cant be called "Goods" persay. The cap has a max 20 sec druuation, and you can Fail in using it. Thats a lot of downsides, but I am for using any means nessarry to win a fight. So far eleites have resisted the cap about 50% of the time while players, not so much, I dont know if it has some test of stats but I have the best rate on warriors/rogues(those with a low Int Stat), as well as they are the best folks for doing dammage in 20 sec. The MC had should not be a make or break, but when it works out for ya, mmmmmmmm it works out well.
Goblin Jumpercables: regular ones float form about 30% to 45% success rate, I am not sure if it is the phase of the moon, but it seems to float, While the upgraded vertions of the cables have about 50-75% success rate(75% may have been a lucky run on my part)
Saper charge: OK theese are just so cool, and while I would be lying if I told you that you could resist the dammage I would be lying, I dont know. I susspect the awnser is no. Almost everyting in the profession of engenering is a replacion of a plyaer skill, jumpercables=Rez, Catseye goggles=Preciption(I know that is a raital, but the point is still the same)Deepdive helm=underwaterbreathing.....And when you look at it, a sapper charge is like one blast of hellfire(point blank AoE that the caster takes the same damamge as the targets, for you non locks), and like Hellfire, that can be resisted by a oppenent but not the caster, I would immigine that the sapper charge works the same. An other way to put it is, I have tryed a few hunderd saper charges in my time, and never resisted, even with my MD felhunter buff, and all my MC gear ontotaling 210 Fire resist. But you can .... SAC you VW and let him take the dammage, or just use them normaly, and if you have soul link, let him take 30% of the damamge.
Side note: that even at 60 I use my death ray, soul link mitigates some of the channeled dammage, but the big thing is that it uses no mana, and with soul link, less life than taping for a Shadow bolt, giving me a relitly quick damamge boost.
Some engineering theroy: Correct or elabroate on this if anybody has insight. I first noted this with stuff like dragonlings and deathrays. I have played a total of 4 engineers, litraly half and half on the gob/gnomish fence, but i have a buddy that plays a gnome,gnomish engineer and the first time i noted it was with his dragonling, we started on the server on the same day, and usualy only 3 mins were between us leveling(only played with each other) but when me made our first dragons, his was a higher level than mine, 3 levels higher, we both made our dragons at the same time, when we were both capped at 225, or I was, his skill was 240(gnome bonus), this happened time and time again, it seemed that some items are based off the engineering skill of the maker. Initaly I figured it was only minions, but then we started talking, and my Death Ray(diffrent server) did substancly less than his( I was lucky to hit 1.7 K cirts, while he eazly got 2.4 K crits), I am thinking that maybe death ray is an other one like the minions. The only thing I have Done to even remotly test this is to trash my old ray, and remake one now that I am at 300 engineering, and man it is a lot cheaper when you can run strath/scholo and the stuff you need just drops(instad of paying too much on AH), The results? well, I do more dammage with the ray now than I did before(Well Sort of), since rebuilding it, i have had much higher cirts 1.8-2.2 K so larger than when I made and used it earlyer in the job. Some Info to remember though, I didnt use the death ray form 53-60(other stuff was a better option) so level could account for a diffrence in dammage output. My old records of 1.7 k Crits are bases off of leveling, form 35(when I first made one) to level 53, thats a long time, while my new numbers are a few days old, and may settle down with time.
OK too much typing for now.
edit
UnstoppableJobo, I say congrats on being a lock doing goblin, and I do see some advantages to picking that spec(especialy if you got a gnomish buddy to hook ya up)I am of the school of though that you cant pick a Wrong spec,jsut that after doing the profession so meny times, I see one as "More Relevent"(Not that i am right)than the other, but thats the beauty of the game, we can have diffrent views, and actualy that makes for the best discusisons on strenghts and weekness of the job for diffrent classes.
Edited, Thu Feb 16 15:06:31 2006 by Capitolg
Goblin Jumpercables: regular ones float form about 30% to 45% success rate, I am not sure if it is the phase of the moon, but it seems to float, While the upgraded vertions of the cables have about 50-75% success rate(75% may have been a lucky run on my part)
Saper charge: OK theese are just so cool, and while I would be lying if I told you that you could resist the dammage I would be lying, I dont know. I susspect the awnser is no. Almost everyting in the profession of engenering is a replacion of a plyaer skill, jumpercables=Rez, Catseye goggles=Preciption(I know that is a raital, but the point is still the same)Deepdive helm=underwaterbreathing.....And when you look at it, a sapper charge is like one blast of hellfire(point blank AoE that the caster takes the same damamge as the targets, for you non locks), and like Hellfire, that can be resisted by a oppenent but not the caster, I would immigine that the sapper charge works the same. An other way to put it is, I have tryed a few hunderd saper charges in my time, and never resisted, even with my MD felhunter buff, and all my MC gear ontotaling 210 Fire resist. But you can .... SAC you VW and let him take the dammage, or just use them normaly, and if you have soul link, let him take 30% of the damamge.
Side note: that even at 60 I use my death ray, soul link mitigates some of the channeled dammage, but the big thing is that it uses no mana, and with soul link, less life than taping for a Shadow bolt, giving me a relitly quick damamge boost.
Some engineering theroy: Correct or elabroate on this if anybody has insight. I first noted this with stuff like dragonlings and deathrays. I have played a total of 4 engineers, litraly half and half on the gob/gnomish fence, but i have a buddy that plays a gnome,gnomish engineer and the first time i noted it was with his dragonling, we started on the server on the same day, and usualy only 3 mins were between us leveling(only played with each other) but when me made our first dragons, his was a higher level than mine, 3 levels higher, we both made our dragons at the same time, when we were both capped at 225, or I was, his skill was 240(gnome bonus), this happened time and time again, it seemed that some items are based off the engineering skill of the maker. Initaly I figured it was only minions, but then we started talking, and my Death Ray(diffrent server) did substancly less than his( I was lucky to hit 1.7 K cirts, while he eazly got 2.4 K crits), I am thinking that maybe death ray is an other one like the minions. The only thing I have Done to even remotly test this is to trash my old ray, and remake one now that I am at 300 engineering, and man it is a lot cheaper when you can run strath/scholo and the stuff you need just drops(instad of paying too much on AH), The results? well, I do more dammage with the ray now than I did before(Well Sort of), since rebuilding it, i have had much higher cirts 1.8-2.2 K so larger than when I made and used it earlyer in the job. Some Info to remember though, I didnt use the death ray form 53-60(other stuff was a better option) so level could account for a diffrence in dammage output. My old records of 1.7 k Crits are bases off of leveling, form 35(when I first made one) to level 53, thats a long time, while my new numbers are a few days old, and may settle down with time.
OK too much typing for now.
edit
UnstoppableJobo, I say congrats on being a lock doing goblin, and I do see some advantages to picking that spec(especialy if you got a gnomish buddy to hook ya up)I am of the school of though that you cant pick a Wrong spec,jsut that after doing the profession so meny times, I see one as "More Relevent"(Not that i am right)than the other, but thats the beauty of the game, we can have diffrent views, and actualy that makes for the best discusisons on strenghts and weekness of the job for diffrent classes.
Edited, Thu Feb 16 15:06:31 2006 by Capitolg
Which tree of engineering do you think a tank would benefit from the most?
1 post
I had an experience with my 45 orc hunter in STV, as you guys have noted already-"a gankers' paradise". Having already been ganked by the same 60 ally 3x in a row I was fed up...I just wanted to quest man!(pvp server obviously) I respawned and found him where he had last killed me, which was near the water at Nessy's. I walked up in front of him, rez'ed and then sat in front of him to show him that I wasn't going to make it fun for him anymore if he wanted to kill me. Once he saw what I was doing, he used a mind control device on me....and we could communicate with each other! He said, "Ok, when i let you go you aren't gonna get revenge on the lowbies, right?" and I said "Just wanna quest, man" and that was it. He let me go and ran off and I went back to questing. I never even thought about it being odd until I saw your thread here and at the time I was just happy I wasn't being ganked every 5 steps anymore, lol.
Edited, Wed Mar 8 23:48:45 2006 by goresplat
Edited, Wed Mar 8 23:54:01 2006 by goresplat
Edited, Wed Mar 8 23:48:45 2006 by goresplat
Edited, Wed Mar 8 23:54:01 2006 by goresplat
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