Thoughts:
What I think I know:
Greater Strike (+4 damage) on 1hander:
At any hit the enchantment will add +4dam to every hit you make - non-resisteble. (if some damage ei. are blocked the enchantment will still add +4damage)
Fiery weapon:
Fiery weapon have a 10% proc rate - and it will damage for 40fire damage each time
So if you have 1000 hits in 1 fight alone:
4 x 1000 = +4k damage
1000 x 10% - 100 á 40 damage = 4k fire damage
---- Somehow I think that Fiery weapon enchant, is a far superiour chant than greater strike (+4dam)
But what Am I missing in my math - What have i forgotten, any wise people how can make this "baby math" equals?
(perhaps somethink with magic vs meele - Magic resists and Armor - perhaps a +damage is better vs a mage and visa versa. Not sure
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Enchant: Greater Strike (+4) vs Fiery WeapFollow
I'm not 100% sure, but your equation doesn't take everything into account.
For the +4 damage, armor rading of the mob/player will lower that amount. That means this enchant is better against low armor targets (casters).
For Fiery, I think it goes through armor with no loss in damage, though maybe it can be resisted. That would make it better against high armor targets with low resists.
For the +4 damage, armor rading of the mob/player will lower that amount. That means this enchant is better against low armor targets (casters).
For Fiery, I think it goes through armor with no loss in damage, though maybe it can be resisted. That would make it better against high armor targets with low resists.
fiery can crit for 60 damage.
+4 dmg will not crit.
say you deal 100 dmg with your sword per swing , and you crit for 200 , the dmg table would look like this
normal crit
--------------------
no enchant - 100 - 200 -
Fiery(10% proc) - 140 - 260 -
+4dmg - 104 - 204 -
--------------------
the added dmg on crits is why fiery is better than +4 imho. but all in all theyre both very similar.
+4 dmg will not crit.
say you deal 100 dmg with your sword per swing , and you crit for 200 , the dmg table would look like this
normal crit
--------------------
no enchant - 100 - 200 -
Fiery(10% proc) - 140 - 260 -
+4dmg - 104 - 204 -
--------------------
the added dmg on crits is why fiery is better than +4 imho. but all in all theyre both very similar.
Where did you take the 10% proc rate for Fiery weapon? I was once asking people how much the rate is, and nobody knew.
On the other hand, when I was once testing this enchantment with Recap, I got above 20% proc rate. That was for maybe 300 hits. I am not claiming it is really 20%, but I would like to know where did you get 10% from?
Edit:
Hm, maybe I got 20% because I did not take into account that it can crit. But it is still quite far from 10%.
Edited, Fri Jan 13 07:22:20 2006 by Wytryszek
On the other hand, when I was once testing this enchantment with Recap, I got above 20% proc rate. That was for maybe 300 hits. I am not claiming it is really 20%, but I would like to know where did you get 10% from?
Edit:
Hm, maybe I got 20% because I did not take into account that it can crit. But it is still quite far from 10%.
Edited, Fri Jan 13 07:22:20 2006 by Wytryszek
first off 10% is about rite for firey enchant where it'll hit for about 1-2 times average per fight...but sometimes it'll hit for more than that.
ive proced with firey for more than 6 times in one fight.
i was hitting on a mob the same lvl as me and i hit it bout 7 times b4 it died.
therefore when firey procs: say its 2 times per fight so 80 damage and +4 hit for bout 7 times each swing which =28 i would say that firey would be a much better enchant for ppl
also with firey u can crit it for 60 dmg but with +4 enchant...all u hit is +4.
ive proced with firey for more than 6 times in one fight.
i was hitting on a mob the same lvl as me and i hit it bout 7 times b4 it died.
therefore when firey procs: say its 2 times per fight so 80 damage and +4 hit for bout 7 times each swing which =28 i would say that firey would be a much better enchant for ppl
also with firey u can crit it for 60 dmg but with +4 enchant...all u hit is +4.
Tested again, got 20 procs on 100 hits. I know the error margin for 100 hits is quite large, but I do not believe in your 10%. 15% maybe.
The problem is I have Fiery on my "parade" lightsabre, so I don't fight with it usually. Maybe I will just sink 25g and enchant my alt's weapon, so he will use for several hours and this should produce better evidence...
The problem is I have Fiery on my "parade" lightsabre, so I don't fight with it usually. Maybe I will just sink 25g and enchant my alt's weapon, so he will use for several hours and this should produce better evidence...
its kinda hard to calculate the actuall hit % cause of the mob and the lvl/armor/etc. of the mob. also in 100hits dodges/parry/block also count as hits but only the mob dodging/parrying/blocking em where firey doesnt proc when those happen so its kinda contradicting what you've said. but 15% sounds like a good guestimation and its not exact but prolly pretty close.
Fiery can proc off of special attacks, sinister strike, hamstring, stuff like that, and recap iirc is unable to distinguish those hits.. so unless you are doing base melee swings, and probably around 1000+ of them for a decent sample, your numbers will be off.
also, any skills that cause extra attacks will ***** up recap and also the procwatch mod. i.e. sword spec rogues 6% chance for an extra attack, also any weapons that grant extra attacks will provide bad data.
so.. 1000+ normal melee swings is the only way to come to any certain conclusion about proc rates.
I intend to test fiery on my twink warrior in a few levels... I will have to get back to you with hard numbers, both with and without special attacks.
also, any skills that cause extra attacks will ***** up recap and also the procwatch mod. i.e. sword spec rogues 6% chance for an extra attack, also any weapons that grant extra attacks will provide bad data.
so.. 1000+ normal melee swings is the only way to come to any certain conclusion about proc rates.
I intend to test fiery on my twink warrior in a few levels... I will have to get back to you with hard numbers, both with and without special attacks.
The biggest thing you haven't taken into account is that the +4 dmg enchant doesn't add 4dmg to every strike, it adds +4dmg to the weapons base dmg, effectively makeing a weapon with 33-45 dmg and 1.9 attack speed to a 37-49 dmg and a 1.9 attack speed, this is why the +dmg enchants are superior and more expensive than the fiery enchant.
4 posts
If you have a 2hander or slow weapon get fiery, if you duel-wield dagger, sword ,axe whatever get +dmg instead. Then you create more dmg then fiery. You cant calculate fiery procs by melee hits exactly. It works like stunning, you stun target for 1st, then u use revenge n stun again n again after 3rd or 4th one you cant stun the target cause mob will be seen as "immune" to your stun. Fiery works the same but you just dont see any immune warning or else. You hit target for 30 hits with duel-wielding speed weapons or 10 hits with a 2handed::: proc will be nearly the same. Ex: 2-3 times with 2h, 2-3 times with 2wield. Otherwise it would be absolutely stupid to use +dmg enchants which isnt.
Feel free to correct me if I know something wrong :)
Feel free to correct me if I know something wrong :)
Well guys brace for the big news: Fiery weapon proc rate IS 20%!!
I have enchanted it on my lowbie warrior alt weapon and played some. I got 400 procs on 2000 hits! That is +8 fire damage on 1h weapon - beats any +damage enchant as long as you stay away from fire elementals.
(even more than +8, because it can crit - forgot to check the rate of criticals)
Ah, and the idea of getting Fiery enchant for 2 hander is stupid. The whole point is that this enchant works the same way on 1H and 2H, while +damage enchants are 2 times stronger for 2-handers.
Edited, Thu Feb 9 06:53:21 2006 by Wytryszek
Edited, Thu Feb 9 06:53:40 2006 by Wytryszek
I have enchanted it on my lowbie warrior alt weapon and played some. I got 400 procs on 2000 hits! That is +8 fire damage on 1h weapon - beats any +damage enchant as long as you stay away from fire elementals.
(even more than +8, because it can crit - forgot to check the rate of criticals)
Ah, and the idea of getting Fiery enchant for 2 hander is stupid. The whole point is that this enchant works the same way on 1H and 2H, while +damage enchants are 2 times stronger for 2-handers.
Edited, Thu Feb 9 06:53:21 2006 by Wytryszek
Edited, Thu Feb 9 06:53:40 2006 by Wytryszek
2 things...
1) I believe the proc rate on fiery isn't fixed. They did this to normalize the enchant for both fast and slow weapons. IE it will proc more with a slow 2h wep than with a fast 1h dagger and will end up adding about the same damage on any wep.
2) + damage is superior for faster weapons because of the way it works. It adds + damage to the base damage of the weapon.
Example
2h Sword (+ 3 damage)
Damage Range: 50-100 (53 - 103)
Average Damage: 75 (78)
Speed: 3
DPS: 25 (26) <-- note increase of 1dps
1h Sword (+ 3 damage)
Damage Range: 40-60 (43 - 63)
Average Damage: 50 (53)
Speed: 2
DPS: 25 (26.5) <-- note increase of 1.5 dps
1) I believe the proc rate on fiery isn't fixed. They did this to normalize the enchant for both fast and slow weapons. IE it will proc more with a slow 2h wep than with a fast 1h dagger and will end up adding about the same damage on any wep.
2) + damage is superior for faster weapons because of the way it works. It adds + damage to the base damage of the weapon.
Example
2h Sword (+ 3 damage)
Damage Range: 50-100 (53 - 103)
Average Damage: 75 (78)
Speed: 3
DPS: 25 (26) <-- note increase of 1dps
1h Sword (+ 3 damage)
Damage Range: 40-60 (43 - 63)
Average Damage: 50 (53)
Speed: 2
DPS: 25 (26.5) <-- note increase of 1.5 dps
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