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Money and Morality: Controversial trade skill techniquesFollow

#27 Jan 14 2006 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
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728 posts
Quote:
Please respect the spirit of RPG an behave in a more responsible way.


I play in a duo, at scheduled times. In the off-hours that I get on, I take care of training and so forth. But I also enjoy fishing, alchemy, and making money for the two of us. Maybe some light role-play. That sort-of thing.

After awhile, you get to know some of the regulars on the trade channel, etc. At least the ones who don't make my /ignore list due to spamming.

Playing in a duo, it is important to not gain XP between sessions. So trading and farming give me something to do. And the trading can be a lot of fun, especially if it's in-character.
#28 Jan 15 2006 at 3:04 AM Rating: Default
Speaking as long time gamer - and I'm talking Crowther and Woods timescales here, I believe Blizzard have managed to create the first working economy in an RPG. Sure, there was a nascent economy in Diablo 2 (online), and the ad-hoc adoption of the Stone of Jordan (SOJ) was fascinating. For those readers not familiar with Diablo2, the SOJ was adopted as it was quite rare, and easy to store as it only took up one item slot in the players inventory. Unfortulately, the Diablo2 economy was completely ruined because it was very easy to 'dupe' items, and players were frequently conned while trading. Blizzard learned from this, and the 'online only' playmode in WoW is testament to this.

The inclusion of an in-game auction house, and just as important, an ingame email system capable of transferring items as well as gold was equally fundamental to the success of WoW as the actual transfer of items between players is done at the server-end and thus cannot be cheated without using invasive/detectable hex-editors/packet-sniffers. A good example of how much players trust Blizzard to 'govern' the economy is evidenced by their recent inclusion of Sony's Rootkit technology - a technology that a lot of people, including the EFF, class as 'spyware'.

The parallels between the real-world economy and the WoW economy are also quite striking. Just like the real-world, WoW has a class system. I'm not talking about Druids and Warriors here, I mean real classes - the 'haves', the 'have-nots', and the 'wannabes' - we even have social-climbers and role models as evidenced by the proliferation of Guilds.

Again, just like the real-world, the WoW economy was ticking along quite nicely - until - BANG - a war breaks out - and then the economy is sent into turmoil as economic forces altered the balance of the economy. Unlike the real-world, the only casualties will be broken pixels, but the cause and effect is the same.

The recently declared war between the nations of Azeroth against the Ahn'Quiraj is of-course completely manufactured by Blizzard - (sounds familiar huh!) , as is the 'shortage' of raw materials for the war-effort - yet it has created a virtual 'siege mentality', and heated discussions, like this thread, about the relative benefits of altruism versus profiteering.

This signifies to me just how successful Blizzard have been in so many aspects of the design of WoW, and in particular the economy. Heck we even have the 'Spiv' character from the real-world - the Enchanter - forced by Blizzard to peddle his wares on a virtual street-corner instead of being a part of the 'real' auction-house economy.

Let's not forget however, that this is just a game, and it is meant to be played. Playing the markets is just as valid a playing style as hacking up monsters. The WoW economy can be played speculatively without *really* hurting anyone afterall.

It's just a game - play it any way you like...

Incidentally, I have got almost as much enjoyment out of reading this thread as I get while playing the game itself !! Would anyone else care to add to my list of parallels between the real-world economy and WoW...?

...
This is not a sig
#29 Jan 19 2006 at 2:38 AM Rating: Default
here here, me agreez, this thread was funni

i make some gold on AH, but the VERY last thing i have ever done, was to see who's selling the item to me...who gives a rats ****?

i need it, i can afford it, so i buy it *shrugs*

i need it, i can't afford it, tough n00gies... go make some money and come back

i'd rather be killing stuff and questing than trying to make extra virtual gold pieces with that bloody AH screen up in front of my face...

the time most of ye spend day-trading, i bet ya a buffalo nickel you could make same or more farming leather near camp mojache killin apes and wolves near the uber yetis... TONS of leather up there me son TONS...

drink yer milk

sell yer leather

wheeeee

#30 Jan 20 2006 at 9:11 AM Rating: Default
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638 posts
Verucassault wrote:
This may sound crazy but, how about actually playing the game instead of spending time buying and selling items because of the (insert justification here). Most people play this game to create, build, modify and enjoy a character that goes around and plays this game. Sitting at the AH all day makes your character a glorified NPC.

What this says to me is that you did not get involved in this game to play the game, you got involved to manipulate something that you could have a limited amount of control over. Folks, it is a game, it is meant to be played. It is not the real world. It is not about stabilizing an economy. It is not about balancing the needs of the few against the needs of the many. It is a game.

<snip>

Please respect the spirit of RPG an behave in a more responsible way.


This is exactly the point of view I was criticizing earlier. One of the great things about WoW is that there is no definition of winner or loser - you can play the game however you enjoy playing it. One of the playstyles accomodated by the game is that of trading at the auction house. Blizzard did not design a hack-and-slash game, but a fantasy world, allowing you to decide what sort of character you would like to play. People who like economics, buying, selling, retail mentality, and just dealing with customers have as much legitimacy as those who like putting on imaginary armor and hacking their way through imaginary creatures.

Please respect the point of view of those who do not have the same goals and motivations as yourself. Just because the auction house mentality does not fit your view of the game does not mean that it is therefore the wrong way to play.

Edited, Fri Jan 20 09:21:02 2006 by fledarmus
#31 Jan 24 2006 at 2:04 PM Rating: Decent
Excellent thread!! All posters are brining up insightful points.

To the O/P who said that A/H players have no benefit to anyone else I offer at least one benefit. I will purchase consumables when there is over-supply, and re-post on day’s there is a shortage. Sometimes when I post the market is completely dry, and under these circumstances I like to think I have helped someone level a trade, make a potion, complete a quest etc. who would otherwise not have had the option to it that day.


Thank you
#32 Feb 24 2006 at 11:07 AM Rating: Default
thx for starting this post i am really into the controlling the market thing and i dont think it is bad or any thing it is just a fricken game so what if greedy in the game or not every one wants to be pimp out in all epic gear have and epic mount just to show how good they are so i dont see while people get mad about and the day traders dont mind people getting a good deal but doesnt mean they should turn down a good deal if they see one to and it could make money for them.

also if any one has any suggestions that would be nice am trying to control the copper bar market and i think i pick a market that is to easy to gather for i dont know if there is to much supply or what but i am about 60g in and have around 90 stacks of 20 trying to sell for 1g each dont know if any one has any suggestions plz let me know
#33 Feb 24 2006 at 12:46 PM Rating: Decent
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161 posts
Day Trading can be an important benefit to many players who are trying to make some quick cash to improve their character. There are risks involved, and it does require some effort. I definately have no problem with people doing it, as has been said before, if it's too high, it won't sell... What really irks me is people who start a new character and have their friends, or guildies (or worse yet buy it!) send them a ridiculus amount of gold. It just bugs me to see a lvl 15 player decked out in all blue gear, especially if you know they didn't "earn" that gold. That is what drives up AH prices. When a low lvl cahracter can pay 10 gold for some blue item, it creates a serious amount of inflation. While not present in WOW, high prices could be driven down by creating some sort of interest earning bank (do I buy item X or keep my cash in bank to earn interest???) However an interest-based banking system has tons of problems of its own.

So in the end we should all just accept that people will day-trade, people will get gold from friends/guildies etc. The only thing we should really do something about is the buying of gold/characters/items for real $$$$...

#34 Feb 24 2006 at 2:08 PM Rating: Decent
i agree with you on buying of gold is really annoying but also it doesnt bother me it helps so people like my dad has really bad eyes and hard for him to see so he will buy gold because doesnt want to have to worry it just wants to play the game and not have to worry about it cause hurts his eyes and yes he does send me gold at time and of course i dont turn it down but i agree even when i do accept the gold you still feel cheap that you didnt earn it. but i dont think it should be taken out either for people like my dad who it is very hard to do and just want to play the game
#35 Feb 24 2006 at 3:13 PM Rating: Decent
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1,233 posts
If someone wants to sell something cheap to do someone a favor, one way to do that favor is to let them buy the goods and resell them for a profit. Why does the helpfulness have to be solely in recieving the goods? Why can't it be in getting some money if that's what you need? The seller has done someone a favor, and the buyer has benefitted, so all I see is a virtue for the seller, not a crime for the buyer. I sell my items dirt cheap on the auction house to make sure they sell, and I don't care what anyone does with them--use them or resell them.
#36 Feb 27 2006 at 8:02 PM Rating: Decent
I'm glad some of you care about what others pay for your goods, but I don't. I feel bad that I don't have 2 accounts so I can ***** the opposite faction over, but I get $ all the same. One technique I like to employ is recipie gathering. That is when you go to the far reaches of the world and buy up recipies of all sorts that are on a limited supply and resell them in the AH. This can be looked at 2 ways. I am providing a service (they don't have to run to get the recp.) or I am capitalizing on some people's stupidity of not knowing that they are vendor sold. As long as there are people with too much money in their pockets I will be glad to lighten their load. Also as far as market controling, and day trading? You are a fool if you don't take advantage of common sense. If there is a faster way to make money that is completely legal (all be it moraly questionable) then do it. If you have regrets, and you want to spend those extra hours farming, when you can capitalize on this, then feel free. You'll find this Orc sitting on my butt making $ in the AH for my mount before you see me getting all sweaty killing mobs for it.
Just my 2 Cp.
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