I thought I'd start a little open debate about some of the more controversial ways to make money in the game. Lots of people have opinions on different topics, and I thought I'd post a few of my own. Feel free to chime in with your own ideas, but keep it civil, please ^_^
Day-Trading
The first topic that comes to mind is day-trading. Day-Trading is, at its core, buying low and selling high on the Auction House. There are a couple of techniques to this; I call them...
A) Buy low, resell higher. The basic day-trading technique. You find underpriced items posted by players who want a quick (and guaranteed) buck instead of waiting for higher payoffs and the potential loss and resale. You buy the below-average priced item and resell it for the average.
B)Cornering the market, which has two caveats I can think of:
1) Buying out the stock. You buy out all the items on the market and resell them all for higher. If they sell, you'll make a very hefty sum of cash, but send consumers away grumbling.
2) Rare recipe monopolies: If you're one of the only people who can make, say, Gloves of Spellmastery or the Lionheart Helm, you effectively have your own market. You are free to make these items and price them without consulting the market (if they sell, well, that's a different matter). You can also charge a crafting fee and make the rare item for the materials plus this fee.
Pro-day-trading: Hands down the easiest way to make money (note: if you are good at it!). These techniques will take away hours of senseless grinding at level 60 for your epic mount, not to mention that the more money you make, the more items you can buy, opening up potential cornerings of the market.
Anti-day-trading: You are using others to make money. By cornering the market and buying out the stock, you are gouging people and charging them inflated prices that you control. In the US there are actually laws against this kind of behavior. Rare recipe monopolies are less harmful, but if you charge 100 gold for an item plus its materials just to make it, it's an extra pain for the buyer.
My take: I really like the buying low and reselling higher technique. There is nothing wrong with this, as it stabilizes prices. Cornering the market, however, is a pain in the neck. However, if a consumer does not know the normal prices and buys at inflated ones instead, then it is their own fault. The market moves in cycles; and if someone loses their deposits and needs to resell 75% of the items they bought, odds are the monopoly prices will quickly fall back to the status quo. As for the rare recipes, hey, there's nothing you can do about that buy bite the bullet and buy. You don't NEED that item, so it is up to you to cover whatever the costs are.
In groups: BoE (Rare and up) drops
Sometimes in groups some good loot will drop; a blue world drop. Hopefully loot rules have been established before so this can be taken care of peacefully. The main problems for these seem to be:
A) Need before greed ambiguities: I have always played this way with blue BoE drops: if you roll need and win, you MUST equip the item right there and then. You don't need to keep it on, but you must soulbind it to yourself. NEED means your character will use it. Not your alt, not your guildmate, but you yourself. "I need money" is not a NEED roll.
B) "I was afk and missed the roll; let's reroll": No. It was your own fault for being afk. If you missed a roll on a BoE piece, it is up to the item's winner to decide if a reroll should be held. I am of the mind that a reroll/trade should be considered only if the afked person needs (will use) the item. Greed rerolls are selfish of the afker; hopefully you won't be away next time an item drops!
C) Multiple blue wins: I see this as applying to boss drops, not random blue drops (unless you roll NEED on the randoms). If you are greeding and everyone can roll on the drops, then the one-drop rule is only in effect if the looting rules agree on it before.
Buying from (potential) gold-farmers
Gold-farmers frequently grind instances/enemies to get rare drops, and then sell them in broken English on the trade channel for ridiculous prices. Sometimes, unfortunately, only gold-sellers find the rare high-demand items. Even if buying from them supports their campaign of evil, it is usually one of the only ways to get these items.
Pro-buying: You can't find these items anywhere else. At the very least, gold-sellers provide rare items to the market.
Anti-buying: Evil! Gold sellers destroy economies. You should wait for someone else to get the items you want and buy it from them instead. So what if it takes 6 months; it's moral that way!
My take: It is situational. Recipes and patterns are decent to buy from them, since you can use them to benefit others. Rare items, however, benefit only yourself; I see buying items as doing more damage overall than good. Generally I just avoid gold-farmers like the plague.
Yup, those are all I can think of right now :) If you have any other, or any ideas, feel free to add to it ^_^
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Money and Morality: Controversial trade skill techniquesFollow
Skinning Humanoids
One would think Humanoids shouldn't be skinned so that you sell their skins in the market, however, some humanoids are furry and have good quality skins, specificly those that have wolf skin, the worgen. Wether it's an act of cruelty for skin humanoids or... blah blah.
Yah, I was J/K. Good post, nice to know those things, I'll keep in mind to keep the "if you roll need you MUST equip" thing.
One would think Humanoids shouldn't be skinned so that you sell their skins in the market, however, some humanoids are furry and have good quality skins, specificly those that have wolf skin, the worgen. Wether it's an act of cruelty for skin humanoids or... blah blah.
Yah, I was J/K. Good post, nice to know those things, I'll keep in mind to keep the "if you roll need you MUST equip" thing.
I've always done day-trading. I avoid the uber-expensive items though. I don't like the risk involved. I have a large number of other items I bid on all the time and re-sell for high % profit. It's not about the amount of gold, but the %. If you know you can do a LOT of high % gain sales, then it will out-do that repeat-posted 500g epic item any day. I've made a ton of gold this way.
Though I like playing the AH and don't mind posting lots of things. So anyone who hates spending time in the city may want to stick with the more expensive items and not have to watch so many auctions.
As for buying from gold farmers, well, I haven't done much of that yet. I bought all my traveler bags from them for cheap of course, but most other things come from normal players via the auction house. I don't think I'd pass on a super good deal though if a gold farmer offered it. I know there is one Epic item that I WILL buy in-game from a gold farmer if offered, but that opportunity hasn't opened up yet. It's for me though, I won't be re-selling it.
Though I like playing the AH and don't mind posting lots of things. So anyone who hates spending time in the city may want to stick with the more expensive items and not have to watch so many auctions.
As for buying from gold farmers, well, I haven't done much of that yet. I bought all my traveler bags from them for cheap of course, but most other things come from normal players via the auction house. I don't think I'd pass on a super good deal though if a gold farmer offered it. I know there is one Epic item that I WILL buy in-game from a gold farmer if offered, but that opportunity hasn't opened up yet. It's for me though, I won't be re-selling it.
another need/moral issue i find is recipe drops.
some are 1-5g..others are 25-50g...then there are those that are 100-500g.
there are a few bop recipes..no problem there, hand it to the one who can use it like any other bop items.
but for a boe recipe, which the majority of them are, some players like to "need" it. it saves them a bit of cash by not having to buy it. or..it makes them a bit of cash when they sell it. so far, no one has actually "learned" the recipe right there and then for the rest of us to see. everyone just assumes he has the tradeskill he mentioned.
often times too, the person doesn't have the tradeskill at the appropriate level to learn it. no one seems to make this a big deal either.
it seems to me that these kinds of recipes can help someone make a lot of money, especially when people don't seem to care that he learns it right away, they just assume he (eventually) really wants to learn it as he says
Man O Man I must be such a hippy
ya nothing wrong if you are one Greedy Greedy person, Prices dont need to be stablised,sometimes folks actualy want to help out other players buy putting items up at a affordable price. Only to have some used car salesperson caliber person buy it up and resell at "their" "Fair" price. Hey nothing stoping you, and do as you will, but pretending that it is not slimy and underhanded , I call shanagains on that. It is a game and do as you wish but daytrading (and thinking it is anyting but selfish)is the same outlook as the Enron guys, when you do this, you bone 2 folks, the sell who was giving their fair price, and the potental buyer that would have spend the money on a fair priced item.
Dont stop daytrading for anything I say, but dont fool yourself, you are being devious, as well as reaping a feild you didnt sew.
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My take: I really like the buying low and reselling higher technique. There is nothing wrong with this, as it stabilizes prices. Cornering the market, however, is a pain in the neck.
ya nothing wrong if you are one Greedy Greedy person, Prices dont need to be stablised,sometimes folks actualy want to help out other players buy putting items up at a affordable price. Only to have some used car salesperson caliber person buy it up and resell at "their" "Fair" price. Hey nothing stoping you, and do as you will, but pretending that it is not slimy and underhanded , I call shanagains on that. It is a game and do as you wish but daytrading (and thinking it is anyting but selfish)is the same outlook as the Enron guys, when you do this, you bone 2 folks, the sell who was giving their fair price, and the potental buyer that would have spend the money on a fair priced item.
Dont stop daytrading for anything I say, but dont fool yourself, you are being devious, as well as reaping a feild you didnt sew.
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My take: I really like the buying low and reselling higher technique. There is nothing wrong with this, as it stabilizes prices. Cornering the market, however, is a pain in the neck.
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ya nothing wrong if you are one Greedy Greedy person, Prices dont need to be stablised,sometimes folks actualy want to help out other players buy putting items up at a affordable price. Only to have some used car salesperson caliber person buy it up and resell at "their" "Fair" price. Hey nothing stoping you, and do as you will, but pretending that it is not slimy and underhanded , I call shanagains on that. It is a game and do as you wish but daytrading (and thinking it is anyting but selfish)is the same outlook as the Enron guys, when you do this, you bone 2 folks, the sell who was giving their fair price, and the potental buyer that would have spend the money on a fair priced item.
Dont stop daytrading for anything I say, but dont fool yourself, you are being devious, as well as reaping a feild you didnt sew.
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My take: I really like the buying low and reselling higher technique. There is nothing wrong with this, as it stabilizes prices. Cornering the market, however, is a pain in the neck.
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ya nothing wrong if you are one Greedy Greedy person, Prices dont need to be stablised,sometimes folks actualy want to help out other players buy putting items up at a affordable price. Only to have some used car salesperson caliber person buy it up and resell at "their" "Fair" price. Hey nothing stoping you, and do as you will, but pretending that it is not slimy and underhanded , I call shanagains on that. It is a game and do as you wish but daytrading (and thinking it is anyting but selfish)is the same outlook as the Enron guys, when you do this, you bone 2 folks, the sell who was giving their fair price, and the potental buyer that would have spend the money on a fair priced item.
Dont stop daytrading for anything I say, but dont fool yourself, you are being devious, as well as reaping a feild you didnt sew.
I think I need to clear this up a bit. I'm not saying that someone is buying everything to put it at their idea of a fair price; I'm saying that the market determines at what price something will sell. For example, look at a theoretical situation with copper bars:
Copper Bar x20 80 silver buyout
Copper Bar x18 75 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 78 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 45 silver buyout
If you buyout the 45 stack and put it up for 75 silver, you end up with around a 25 (give or take) silver profit. It takes a few seconds to do. The day-trading is not deciding it is their own "fair price"; it is what the average is for the market.
Basic supply and demand. If you sell copper bars at 45 silver, a ton of people would buy them, but the supply would run out very quickly. Therefore, you have two options: increase the supply, or decrease the demand. The easiest way to decrease the demand is to increase the price. But if you increase the price too far, then you lose the demand for your product, and it won't sell. If you priced the bars at 90 silver instead of 75, your bars might not sell, because at that price, very few (if any) people would buy the copper bars.
This is different, in my mind, than buying all those bars and reselling them at 90 silver each. Then you are being slimy and underhanded; if you markup an underpriced item, people still have other choices (the three other copper bar stacks up on auction). If you buy all four stacks, then you are a price maker, a monopolist, and others are at your mercy.
There is nothing, in mind, underhanded about taking that underpriced copper bar stack and reselling it for still underpriced amount. You get a guaranteed sale, you make a profit, and the original poster will make the same amount, irregardless of whether a day-trader or a lowbie crafter buys the bars.
What I like about this game is that the market is optional. You never need anything off the AH; you can get any items you need yourself without using the market. Therefore, a complete monopoly is very difficult to achieve, because of people don't like your prices they can either:
A) Go farm the items themselves.
B) Wait until you fail to sell the items a few times and their prices must fall
LockeColeMA, I get where you are coming from, We just think diffrently, you posted your view, and as far as being a Daytrader(a term used for slimy home stok brokers that commit succide when ther gamble falls though), and if money is what you want, and somebody has a hard time making it, tear at it, but....
I look at it this way
Copper Bar x20 80 silver buyout
Copper Bar x18 75 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 78 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 45 silver buyout
let the guy who needs 20 copper buy it at what the seller wanted to sell it at, and so on and so on, and that buying one to resell it is the behivor of a greedy person who cant stand to see somebody get a good deal, or thinks that good deal is for them only and their for is obgliated to buy it and resell so that they have "Fixed" the economy, because god knows the AH would crash and burn if somebody got a stack of silver for less than the average price that you have made a average by buying and reselling.( as the average would have been lower had you not baught the cheaper one and posted it at a higher cost). Once again to each their own, but the thred is called "Money and Morality" and my point that the slimy unmoral views of money shared by real world stock brokers and used car salesmen, are still slimy in game, their is no law that says you cant be slimy and unmoral in game, or real life. Daytrading is devious work, if you have it in you to "Fix" things in much the same way Enron Fixed local energy markets(and they did EXACTLY what you said, they purhcased energy at low rates and then sold it at higher rates, to folks grandparrents, to trun a profit, their fore raising rates of economys that found more effecent ways to porduce power)
With this statement you are setting your own moral compas, by saitng that this behaivor is moral to a point and then is not. what that comment says to me, is that you understand it is underhanded, but not if you only do it a little? like marking up geriatric supplies after a natural disaster just a little, is ok but doubbling the price is worng. So Just a little gouging is ok, but tooo much is worong.
Remember Daytrading Dose NO good to the economy, it "Fixes" noting, it is only a way to line your pocket at somebody elses cost, either the crafter that wants the items(at what the posterd decided was fair, but a day trader couldnt stand to see that somebody else got a deal)or the poster that wanded the actual crafter to get a fair price.
Do as we wish but a Daytrader is slime, a burdon on the economy. If you can show me how they do any good(other than selfish greed to get money), then i will rethink. A awnser like it hurts nobody dosent show how it dose good, that just shows that that person is good at fooling themselves.
I look at it this way
Copper Bar x20 80 silver buyout
Copper Bar x18 75 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 78 silver buyout
Copper Bar x20 45 silver buyout
let the guy who needs 20 copper buy it at what the seller wanted to sell it at, and so on and so on, and that buying one to resell it is the behivor of a greedy person who cant stand to see somebody get a good deal, or thinks that good deal is for them only and their for is obgliated to buy it and resell so that they have "Fixed" the economy, because god knows the AH would crash and burn if somebody got a stack of silver for less than the average price that you have made a average by buying and reselling.( as the average would have been lower had you not baught the cheaper one and posted it at a higher cost). Once again to each their own, but the thred is called "Money and Morality" and my point that the slimy unmoral views of money shared by real world stock brokers and used car salesmen, are still slimy in game, their is no law that says you cant be slimy and unmoral in game, or real life. Daytrading is devious work, if you have it in you to "Fix" things in much the same way Enron Fixed local energy markets(and they did EXACTLY what you said, they purhcased energy at low rates and then sold it at higher rates, to folks grandparrents, to trun a profit, their fore raising rates of economys that found more effecent ways to porduce power)
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This is different, in my mind, than buying all those bars and reselling them at 90 silver each. Then you are being slimy and underhanded; if you markup an underpriced item, people still have other choices (the three other copper bar stacks up on auction). If you buy all four stacks, then you are a price maker, a monopolist, and others are at your mercy.
There is nothing, in mind, underhanded about taking that underpriced copper bar stack and reselling it for still underpriced amount. You get a guaranteed sale, you make a profit, and the original poster will make the same amount, irregardless of whether a day-trader or a lowbie crafter buys the bars.
There is nothing, in mind, underhanded about taking that underpriced copper bar stack and reselling it for still underpriced amount. You get a guaranteed sale, you make a profit, and the original poster will make the same amount, irregardless of whether a day-trader or a lowbie crafter buys the bars.
With this statement you are setting your own moral compas, by saitng that this behaivor is moral to a point and then is not. what that comment says to me, is that you understand it is underhanded, but not if you only do it a little? like marking up geriatric supplies after a natural disaster just a little, is ok but doubbling the price is worng. So Just a little gouging is ok, but tooo much is worong.
Remember Daytrading Dose NO good to the economy, it "Fixes" noting, it is only a way to line your pocket at somebody elses cost, either the crafter that wants the items(at what the posterd decided was fair, but a day trader couldnt stand to see that somebody else got a deal)or the poster that wanded the actual crafter to get a fair price.
Do as we wish but a Daytrader is slime, a burdon on the economy. If you can show me how they do any good(other than selfish greed to get money), then i will rethink. A awnser like it hurts nobody dosent show how it dose good, that just shows that that person is good at fooling themselves.
Remember folks, This is MY opinion, Years of living in a economy wrecked by Enron, watching car sales men buy a car form a one person for 500$ and reselling it 4 days later "AS IS" for 4000$ and calling it "Good". Everybody is intitled to their veiws, I just think Daytrading is as devious in real life as in game. It should in no way affect how you play the game or how you live your life, come on , I even started out with "I am such a Hippy" you had to have know you were dealing with a quaziSocialist.
I'm not quite as much of a hippy as Capitolg, but I do agree with him on many points.
To me, it's not really a moral issue, it just annoys me in general. At it's core, a daytrader's activity is very simply making profit by raising prices. Even Capitolg's Used Car salesman does more than the daytrader does. At least the car salesman has a car lot (or at least a parking space) and some expenses, as well as paperwork to do. A daytrader buys and sells from the same AH that everyone else does so he really does nothing more than buy the item, run to the mailbox, raise price and put the item right back on the same shelf.
The "stabilize the economy" thing, to me, is merely a rationalization. Who decided that the economy needed to be stabilized? Well, it seems that the daytraders did that. I know, for a fact, I've never heard a normal player (player who doesn't hawk the AH) complain about finding too many good deals at the AH. The normal player isn't a financial idiot. I don't believe the economy really needs these self proclaimed "stabilizers". In fact, I find it a bit insulting to the intelligence for them to try passing the activity off as some great service they do for the economy.
Again, I don't really see it as a moral issue. I don't necessarily think daytrading is "wrong". It's just that going to the AH and seeing something like this makes me feel a bit like I've gone to an all-you-can-eat buffet, but someone else has already licked (or bitten big chunks from) all of the food. Or maybe a more accurate way of describing it is that it's like a second tax customers have to pay to the daytraders if they want to use the AH.
Personally, I won't buy items from people whose name appears too often in AH listings . . . I should clarify this, before going on. I'm talking about the people whose names appear on multiple rare and epic items, way too much jewelry, all kinds of crafting materials etc etc. The ones that do nothing but stand at the AH and hunt for things they can mark up (there's even an addon that will do this for you now ><). I'm not talking about the miner who just got in from 3 hours of hunting thorium deposits.
I just don't feel that someone deserves my money for simply camping the AH and grabbing up all the good deals before anyone else has a chance. They're perfectly free to do it all they want, but I'm also perfectly free to refrain from giving them my money. And, honestly, most of the daytraders on my server make this easy for me. They almost always raise prices well over what I know is the going rate. The sad thing is that it usually works for them because they're banking on the customers' impatience to make their profit, and there's plenty of impatience to work with, including a really annoying army of goldbuyers who'll pay damn near anything to have what they want RIGHT NOW.
To me, it's not really a moral issue, it just annoys me in general. At it's core, a daytrader's activity is very simply making profit by raising prices. Even Capitolg's Used Car salesman does more than the daytrader does. At least the car salesman has a car lot (or at least a parking space) and some expenses, as well as paperwork to do. A daytrader buys and sells from the same AH that everyone else does so he really does nothing more than buy the item, run to the mailbox, raise price and put the item right back on the same shelf.
The "stabilize the economy" thing, to me, is merely a rationalization. Who decided that the economy needed to be stabilized? Well, it seems that the daytraders did that. I know, for a fact, I've never heard a normal player (player who doesn't hawk the AH) complain about finding too many good deals at the AH. The normal player isn't a financial idiot. I don't believe the economy really needs these self proclaimed "stabilizers". In fact, I find it a bit insulting to the intelligence for them to try passing the activity off as some great service they do for the economy.
Again, I don't really see it as a moral issue. I don't necessarily think daytrading is "wrong". It's just that going to the AH and seeing something like this makes me feel a bit like I've gone to an all-you-can-eat buffet, but someone else has already licked (or bitten big chunks from) all of the food. Or maybe a more accurate way of describing it is that it's like a second tax customers have to pay to the daytraders if they want to use the AH.
Personally, I won't buy items from people whose name appears too often in AH listings . . . I should clarify this, before going on. I'm talking about the people whose names appear on multiple rare and epic items, way too much jewelry, all kinds of crafting materials etc etc. The ones that do nothing but stand at the AH and hunt for things they can mark up (there's even an addon that will do this for you now ><). I'm not talking about the miner who just got in from 3 hours of hunting thorium deposits.
I just don't feel that someone deserves my money for simply camping the AH and grabbing up all the good deals before anyone else has a chance. They're perfectly free to do it all they want, but I'm also perfectly free to refrain from giving them my money. And, honestly, most of the daytraders on my server make this easy for me. They almost always raise prices well over what I know is the going rate. The sad thing is that it usually works for them because they're banking on the customers' impatience to make their profit, and there's plenty of impatience to work with, including a really annoying army of goldbuyers who'll pay damn near anything to have what they want RIGHT NOW.
Regarding Kourg's comment about not buying from names you see a lot.
Since I do the daytrading thing, I too have considered this problem. That's why I have 3 AH workers that I use to spread out my sales. Just so my name doesn't show up everywhere. It still does, but definately not as much. I also make sure to NOT be the guy who has the insane high prices. I stay near the top, but still reasonable. I haven't really noticed any major loss in sales, but I wouldn't be suprised if people sometimes avoid my items because they recognize an alt's name.
Since I do the daytrading thing, I too have considered this problem. That's why I have 3 AH workers that I use to spread out my sales. Just so my name doesn't show up everywhere. It still does, but definately not as much. I also make sure to NOT be the guy who has the insane high prices. I stay near the top, but still reasonable. I haven't really noticed any major loss in sales, but I wouldn't be suprised if people sometimes avoid my items because they recognize an alt's name.
Speaking as an official AH ***** and hippie hater writ large, I don't have a problem with capitalizing on others stupidity and impatience. It works on both ends of the operation.
Buying Scenario: Player A is anxious to sell the nifty BOE blue or purple they just looted. They need their mount NOW, or that new formula NOW, etc. These are usually the people you see spamming in IF, "Brightwood Staff: CHEEP". Having the capital, and a bit more patience, I buy their item, and set it above market by 10-20%, depending on the item. It may take until the weekend, or even two, to sell, but when it does, I've doubled or even tripled my money.
Selling Scenario: Take the recent winter's veil celebrations as an example. Santa wants ice cold milk. A bunch of nubs, and impatient high levels don't want to farm (or go to the inn and buy) ice cold milk. I go onto the AH, buy up all the ice cold milk available, and resell at 50s per. And, to offer people a deal, I'd sell a stack of 2 milks for 75s. Now, only fools, or people with too much money would pay this. I sold a runecloth bag FULL of stacks of Ice Cold Milk over the past two weeks. Whenever I'd pop through IF, I'd buy up all the milk cheaper than mine, and destroy it, or send it to an alt.
In neither scenario are the buyers forced into acceptance. You don't NEED that purple, and if you're too lazy or dumb to go buy a milk from the inn, I'm not going to sit around feeling sorry for you. Granted, the casual player may be upset at "window shopping" all my high priced goods, because all of his hours of farming aren't enough to get what he/she wants. Nor do I think either scenario is unethical. All the items in the AH are farmable (or craftable, but who wants that crap anyway?), and the game would exist without it. But, don't take what is offered as a convenience and treat it as if it is your RIGHT to have goods offered to you at whatever you feel market value is or should be. If some poor bastige is willing to pay, then that is what the item is worth. Either man up and pay it, or go get it yourself (or douse yourself in patchoulli, and send me in game tells whining about my prices). You'll find no shelter with this capitalist.
Buying Scenario: Player A is anxious to sell the nifty BOE blue or purple they just looted. They need their mount NOW, or that new formula NOW, etc. These are usually the people you see spamming in IF, "Brightwood Staff: CHEEP". Having the capital, and a bit more patience, I buy their item, and set it above market by 10-20%, depending on the item. It may take until the weekend, or even two, to sell, but when it does, I've doubled or even tripled my money.
Selling Scenario: Take the recent winter's veil celebrations as an example. Santa wants ice cold milk. A bunch of nubs, and impatient high levels don't want to farm (or go to the inn and buy) ice cold milk. I go onto the AH, buy up all the ice cold milk available, and resell at 50s per. And, to offer people a deal, I'd sell a stack of 2 milks for 75s. Now, only fools, or people with too much money would pay this. I sold a runecloth bag FULL of stacks of Ice Cold Milk over the past two weeks. Whenever I'd pop through IF, I'd buy up all the milk cheaper than mine, and destroy it, or send it to an alt.
In neither scenario are the buyers forced into acceptance. You don't NEED that purple, and if you're too lazy or dumb to go buy a milk from the inn, I'm not going to sit around feeling sorry for you. Granted, the casual player may be upset at "window shopping" all my high priced goods, because all of his hours of farming aren't enough to get what he/she wants. Nor do I think either scenario is unethical. All the items in the AH are farmable (or craftable, but who wants that crap anyway?), and the game would exist without it. But, don't take what is offered as a convenience and treat it as if it is your RIGHT to have goods offered to you at whatever you feel market value is or should be. If some poor bastige is willing to pay, then that is what the item is worth. Either man up and pay it, or go get it yourself (or douse yourself in patchoulli, and send me in game tells whining about my prices). You'll find no shelter with this capitalist.
jdtschida wrote:
That's why I have 3 AH workers that I use to spread out my sales. Just so my name doesn't show up everywhere.
This statement proves Capitolg was right on the money when he said that:
Capitolg wrote:
Daytrading is devious work.
As for Wormzer's post, well, according to his own words, you'd have to be a "fool" to buy anything from him. Seems that he sees people as marks (A person who is the intended victim of a swindler; a dupe) more than he sees them as respectable customers. Again setting daytrading up as a scam instead of any kind of beneficial practice.
It's beneficial to me, and those I know in game. Isn't that the point of capitalism? Whether or not I view those that shop my wares in the second "unethical" scenario as dupes or leprachauns ******** rainbow sherbert is irrelevant. There was a demand, and I matched it with supply at a price point the market demanded. My view of the customer doesn't matter, as long as they buy. If they managed to figure out that they could buy milk for nearly nothing from an npc, I'd be an unfortunate with a sack full of milk instead of gold. Your view assumes an altruism that's usually miles away from an auction house.
Capitolg, if you want someone to get a good deal, there are other ways to go about it other than using the AH. You can C.O.D. the item to someone you know who might need it for the resonable price, or you can spam the trade chat and offer the item for your fair price. The way I see it, if you put up an item on the AH, its first come first serve for buyout items. The person who youre trying to help should have gotten to the item before the person who wants to resell for a higher price. If you want to sell an item for a fair price, dont use buyout, instead set your starting value much lower than comfortable. All in all anyone who sells for less than the average ammount is usually mostly focussed on selling their item before the higher priced items, they don't care who buys the item, just as long as it sells. Wheather a daytrader buys it or a customer buys the item, its still getting sold.
2 posts
Ok....this is rather simple to my mind. Any of you that use the AH and sell the items there for higher then what an npc vendor would pay you for it is after a profit and thus greedy. It is just a matter of how greedy and how far are you willing to go to satisfy that greed. Heres another little shocker for some...Now that you have been confronted with the fact that 99.9% of the world is greedy just like you...dont ya feel better about it. After all...no one is standing there with a gun to the back of your head saying "Buy that stack of copper bars or i will blow your brains all over your monitor" are they? and if by some random chance they are...dont you think you have more pressing matters to worry about then whether the guy selling them is greedy? Questions like: Why O why did I log into WoW in the middle of this crackhouse. =)
As for people day trading...they are buying from people that are selling low for one of two reasons...A) they are in a hurry for cash and thus have to get the items sold for the money they need as fast as possible....or B)Are too stupid to take the time to figure out a average price.
In case A....they are happy cuz they get the money quick...the guy buying and reselling is happy cuz he makes a profit...and the guy buying is happy because he didnt get gouged.
B)...well...he is upset because he sees others selling for higher...and one of two things..Inexperience becomes experience and he learns to sell for average prices...or he is too stupid to do so...in which case deserves nothing less then everything that happens to him. Inexperience and Ignorance are forgiveable because they can be fixed...Otherwise they are cattle...and deserve to be on burgers.
Monopolizers...now i dont know about you...but this idea occurred to me while playing the first mmo i ever did...EQ...way way back in the days of the open markets in north freeport.
If someone is overcharging...and i know this might come as a radical suprise to you...BUT DONT BUY THE OVERPRICED STUFF!
And if you absolutely have to have that item and dont want to wait...then you are either willing to pay any amount that is asked for it...in which case why would you care...or believe you need it so badly again you will pay whatever is neccessary...yet again...if your willing to do it...you lose the right to complain later.
Now how hard was that?
Heres a better question....Are you angry at those using day trading/monopolizing/whatever because they are greedy and you arent....or simply because they are better at it then you?
As for people day trading...they are buying from people that are selling low for one of two reasons...A) they are in a hurry for cash and thus have to get the items sold for the money they need as fast as possible....or B)Are too stupid to take the time to figure out a average price.
In case A....they are happy cuz they get the money quick...the guy buying and reselling is happy cuz he makes a profit...and the guy buying is happy because he didnt get gouged.
B)...well...he is upset because he sees others selling for higher...and one of two things..Inexperience becomes experience and he learns to sell for average prices...or he is too stupid to do so...in which case deserves nothing less then everything that happens to him. Inexperience and Ignorance are forgiveable because they can be fixed...Otherwise they are cattle...and deserve to be on burgers.
Monopolizers...now i dont know about you...but this idea occurred to me while playing the first mmo i ever did...EQ...way way back in the days of the open markets in north freeport.
If someone is overcharging...and i know this might come as a radical suprise to you...BUT DONT BUY THE OVERPRICED STUFF!
And if you absolutely have to have that item and dont want to wait...then you are either willing to pay any amount that is asked for it...in which case why would you care...or believe you need it so badly again you will pay whatever is neccessary...yet again...if your willing to do it...you lose the right to complain later.
Now how hard was that?
Heres a better question....Are you angry at those using day trading/monopolizing/whatever because they are greedy and you arent....or simply because they are better at it then you?
Couple of things
1.Whenever running through a town always buy up the limited supply recipes and sell on the AH via mule, they always sell and can sometimes *10 outlay on some recipes.
2. If wearing any drops from an instance always unequip them before grouping, put some not so good armour on and roll need if they drop again. Once the roll has been won equip the soulbound item and sell the non soulbound for much gold on the AH.
Edited, Thu Jan 5 12:03:29 2006 by SatanWantsMe
1.Whenever running through a town always buy up the limited supply recipes and sell on the AH via mule, they always sell and can sometimes *10 outlay on some recipes.
2. If wearing any drops from an instance always unequip them before grouping, put some not so good armour on and roll need if they drop again. Once the roll has been won equip the soulbound item and sell the non soulbound for much gold on the AH.
Edited, Thu Jan 5 12:03:29 2006 by SatanWantsMe
In Loving Memory of SatanWantsMe 2006-2008
SWM Wiki | Journal | What I am listening to right now
SWM Wiki | Journal | What I am listening to right now
Quote:
2. If wearing any drops from an instance always unequip them before grouping, put some not so good armour on and roll need if they drop again. Once the roll has been won equip the soulbound item and sell the non soulbound for much gold on the AH.
WOW! If that's not a ninja tactic, I don't know what is... sheesh....
Keep in mind one simple economic rule: everyone always pays less for an item than what it is worth to them.
Always.
Believe me, an item whose price is too high won't sell and an item whose price is too low will.
Heh. And who says buyers aren't greedy? Potions sell for less than the cost of their ingredients...greedy buyers.
And you can always take advantage of a monopolier by underselling his price by a smidgen, or making things a bit more convenient for the buyer. For example, during the Winter Veil season, small eggs were a hot item because of their use in recipes. These things drop reliably from low-level swoops, mind you. Anyway, someone was cornering the market selling them in stacks of five for 1g50s. His were the only ones for sale. On a lark, I flew to Mulgore, gathered a half dozen eggs, and sold them individually for 50s apiece. Notice that was higher than the monopolier's price but better if the buyer only needed one or two.
Every darn egg sold within a couple hours.
If you try to tell me that those eggs were only "worth" about 2c each, I'll remind you that, at least to some folks, they were worth more than 50s each.
And yes, I would applaud anyone with the fortitude to buy the other guy's stacks and put them up at 40s per. No one did, but that would have been quite the coup. Thinking about it, why not buy the stack even if you needed/wanted one egg, then sell the other four for 40s each (undercutting my price and thus selling out first)? Some of us find this sort-of thing fun.
To be a successful trader, you have to know what items will actually sell for. You simply cannot sell an item for more than it's worth to someone.
Is it any less slimy and greedy to twink out your PC on underpriced goods sold by ill-informed sellers?
Is there virtue in selling items at gimmie prices to outfit those who have come nowhere near earning them?
Always.
Believe me, an item whose price is too high won't sell and an item whose price is too low will.
Heh. And who says buyers aren't greedy? Potions sell for less than the cost of their ingredients...greedy buyers.
And you can always take advantage of a monopolier by underselling his price by a smidgen, or making things a bit more convenient for the buyer. For example, during the Winter Veil season, small eggs were a hot item because of their use in recipes. These things drop reliably from low-level swoops, mind you. Anyway, someone was cornering the market selling them in stacks of five for 1g50s. His were the only ones for sale. On a lark, I flew to Mulgore, gathered a half dozen eggs, and sold them individually for 50s apiece. Notice that was higher than the monopolier's price but better if the buyer only needed one or two.
Every darn egg sold within a couple hours.
If you try to tell me that those eggs were only "worth" about 2c each, I'll remind you that, at least to some folks, they were worth more than 50s each.
And yes, I would applaud anyone with the fortitude to buy the other guy's stacks and put them up at 40s per. No one did, but that would have been quite the coup. Thinking about it, why not buy the stack even if you needed/wanted one egg, then sell the other four for 40s each (undercutting my price and thus selling out first)? Some of us find this sort-of thing fun.
To be a successful trader, you have to know what items will actually sell for. You simply cannot sell an item for more than it's worth to someone.
Is it any less slimy and greedy to twink out your PC on underpriced goods sold by ill-informed sellers?
Is there virtue in selling items at gimmie prices to outfit those who have come nowhere near earning them?
LockeCole, I am impressed! You've just outlined a series of issues which could in the real world generate an entire career's worth of papers in macroeconomics, ethics, and marketing! The moral issue I'll set aside for the moment, except to comment that in WoW, at least, unlike in real life, there is always an alternative, from the rather benign expression of indignation involved in simply farming your own materials to the much more dramatic closing your account and not playing any more. As I see it, the governing authority of the game has made it possible for people to play the game in any manner they choose, and to define "winners" and "losers", "sharps" and "marks", "honorable", "devious", and downright "dishonorable" behavior however they like. The actual pool of resources in the game is essentially unlimited - the fact that one person has a particular epic item does not in itself mean that someone else cannot obtain an identical item. It is impossible to corner the market. You can't buy up all the land in Elwynn Forest and make it impossible for anyone else to mine copper there. Supply in this game is essentially unlimited - even the rare spawns do spawn, day in and day out. And a day trader buying up every blue or purple object that ever hits the auction house will not cause one family to freeze to death because the cost of heating is too high.
So what is a day trader in WoW? S/he is a person so interested in economics that s/he is willing to study the trends in the market, and by paying virtual gold for virtual commodities, holding them in virtual storage, and reselling them for higher amounts of virtual gold, is able to increase his/her virtual bank account. That for them is the indicator of success in the game. Not my indicator, but I'm not paying for their account. How are they hurting me? By winning? I never saw a listing of how much virtual gold each person had being listed next to a "1st Place" medal. In fact, I would strongly prefer that many more of the horde players would spend this much time in the auction house - it would make my questing so much easier! Are they dishonest? Immoral, or even amoral? Please. As much as you try to say that "how you act in the game carries over into how you act in real life", that is true only on a very limited level. A game is played by rules, not morality. Consider this scenario - I need to make a trip to Menethil Harbor, but I wasn't planning ahead and just spent my last copper putting stuff up for auction. What do I do? Well, I could spam for money in Ironforge or I could just run out into the woods, knock a few animals on the head and sell their body parts to a vendor. Or better yet, how about some humanoids? They usually carry some cash on them. That doesn't mean that if I need cab fare in New York I'm going to start panhandling or roll a drunk. Day trading is a safe, virtual way to explore your own grasp of economics with no danger of losing anyone's hard-won pension or bankrupting businesses. It's a game. The people who refuse to abide by the rules of the game are the people I fear in real life - these are the ones that think it isn't wrong unless they get caught. Fortunately, even their direct influence on me in the game is much more limited than it would be in real life, and if they're going to be cheating anyway, I would prefer they were too busy hacking computer games for virtual gold to try to steal my identity and buy themselves a new house. So, more power to the day traders - although personally, I don't have the patience to play stock market games, sim-city games and other variations of the resource shuffling games, they are quite popular and I can't see them as immoral. I'd just rather earn my money the old fashioned way - by killing for it.
What about the gold farmers (by LockeCole's definition being those that grind instances for drops to sell, not those that are trading in-game assets for real-life money)? Well, as I see it, the items they bring to the Auction House would not exist on the server at all if they had not ground the instance. This is truly a case of "if a tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear would it make a sound?" The item would not drop if no one killed the mob. Whatever price they set on it then, is a price of creation - what is it worth for me to create that item myself? I could grind my way to level 60, get a bunch of friends and grind the instances, and would strongly prefer doing so. But I don't think it's wrong for someone else to get virtual gold for doing it, or for a third party to pay virtual gold so they wouldn't have to do it themselves. There is a group of people, sometimes overlapping with the economists above, who feel that winning the game is walking around in the baddest toughest equipment available on the server and ganking anything that moves. Again, not my definition of winning, but does it hurt me? Again, this is a game - play is determined not by morality but by rules. Did they break any rules? Hack the game for gold, pay real money for their items, or do any of the other things that Blizzard decided wasn't permissible? If not, then who am I to argue with how they achieved their own definition of winning?
There is one aspect of the game where I see morality as being an issue, and that is in the interpersonal relationships in the game. But again, comparing this to such games as "Diplomacy" where lying is almost built into the rules, it comes down once again to how a person defines winning. Look up any research into a "prisoner's dilemma" type of scenario and you will see that cooperative arrangements are far more likely to succeed even in game mechanics than uncooperative ones that look far more successful on an individual situational basis. So someone ninja-loots on a quest? They don't come with me again, and I try to make sure no one I know has to put up with them either. We all know by now that you get a lot more bites at the apple working with the same people over and over again anyway. How many people here only do pick-up groups when they can't find anyone they've already quested with and trust to go along with them? If someone thinks that some piece of virtual armor is worth more than the kind of trust it takes to go questing with me, their loss. Every guild member of any guild I know seems to feel the same - trying to take advantage of anyone, not just a guildie, is the quickest way to leave a guild involuntarily.
Trying to define a morality above and beyond the rules of the game seems to be simply a request that everyone else play the game for the same reasons, with the same mentality, and with the same interests as yourself. The society of gamers is a diverse society, and they are playing a GAME - a safe environment, wonderfully diverse, which allows opportunities for many different strategies and tactics to be developed based on whatever criteria you think is important to whatever ends you desire. Your reward is how you define it - is that reward worth $15.95 a month to you? If not, well, there's always option 2.
So what is a day trader in WoW? S/he is a person so interested in economics that s/he is willing to study the trends in the market, and by paying virtual gold for virtual commodities, holding them in virtual storage, and reselling them for higher amounts of virtual gold, is able to increase his/her virtual bank account. That for them is the indicator of success in the game. Not my indicator, but I'm not paying for their account. How are they hurting me? By winning? I never saw a listing of how much virtual gold each person had being listed next to a "1st Place" medal. In fact, I would strongly prefer that many more of the horde players would spend this much time in the auction house - it would make my questing so much easier! Are they dishonest? Immoral, or even amoral? Please. As much as you try to say that "how you act in the game carries over into how you act in real life", that is true only on a very limited level. A game is played by rules, not morality. Consider this scenario - I need to make a trip to Menethil Harbor, but I wasn't planning ahead and just spent my last copper putting stuff up for auction. What do I do? Well, I could spam for money in Ironforge or I could just run out into the woods, knock a few animals on the head and sell their body parts to a vendor. Or better yet, how about some humanoids? They usually carry some cash on them. That doesn't mean that if I need cab fare in New York I'm going to start panhandling or roll a drunk. Day trading is a safe, virtual way to explore your own grasp of economics with no danger of losing anyone's hard-won pension or bankrupting businesses. It's a game. The people who refuse to abide by the rules of the game are the people I fear in real life - these are the ones that think it isn't wrong unless they get caught. Fortunately, even their direct influence on me in the game is much more limited than it would be in real life, and if they're going to be cheating anyway, I would prefer they were too busy hacking computer games for virtual gold to try to steal my identity and buy themselves a new house. So, more power to the day traders - although personally, I don't have the patience to play stock market games, sim-city games and other variations of the resource shuffling games, they are quite popular and I can't see them as immoral. I'd just rather earn my money the old fashioned way - by killing for it.
What about the gold farmers (by LockeCole's definition being those that grind instances for drops to sell, not those that are trading in-game assets for real-life money)? Well, as I see it, the items they bring to the Auction House would not exist on the server at all if they had not ground the instance. This is truly a case of "if a tree fell in the forest and no one was there to hear would it make a sound?" The item would not drop if no one killed the mob. Whatever price they set on it then, is a price of creation - what is it worth for me to create that item myself? I could grind my way to level 60, get a bunch of friends and grind the instances, and would strongly prefer doing so. But I don't think it's wrong for someone else to get virtual gold for doing it, or for a third party to pay virtual gold so they wouldn't have to do it themselves. There is a group of people, sometimes overlapping with the economists above, who feel that winning the game is walking around in the baddest toughest equipment available on the server and ganking anything that moves. Again, not my definition of winning, but does it hurt me? Again, this is a game - play is determined not by morality but by rules. Did they break any rules? Hack the game for gold, pay real money for their items, or do any of the other things that Blizzard decided wasn't permissible? If not, then who am I to argue with how they achieved their own definition of winning?
There is one aspect of the game where I see morality as being an issue, and that is in the interpersonal relationships in the game. But again, comparing this to such games as "Diplomacy" where lying is almost built into the rules, it comes down once again to how a person defines winning. Look up any research into a "prisoner's dilemma" type of scenario and you will see that cooperative arrangements are far more likely to succeed even in game mechanics than uncooperative ones that look far more successful on an individual situational basis. So someone ninja-loots on a quest? They don't come with me again, and I try to make sure no one I know has to put up with them either. We all know by now that you get a lot more bites at the apple working with the same people over and over again anyway. How many people here only do pick-up groups when they can't find anyone they've already quested with and trust to go along with them? If someone thinks that some piece of virtual armor is worth more than the kind of trust it takes to go questing with me, their loss. Every guild member of any guild I know seems to feel the same - trying to take advantage of anyone, not just a guildie, is the quickest way to leave a guild involuntarily.
Trying to define a morality above and beyond the rules of the game seems to be simply a request that everyone else play the game for the same reasons, with the same mentality, and with the same interests as yourself. The society of gamers is a diverse society, and they are playing a GAME - a safe environment, wonderfully diverse, which allows opportunities for many different strategies and tactics to be developed based on whatever criteria you think is important to whatever ends you desire. Your reward is how you define it - is that reward worth $15.95 a month to you? If not, well, there's always option 2.
fledarmus, you hit the nail right on the head.
I guess my view of this is rather simplistic compared to many. First of all, this is a game. Making comparisons between selling in the game and selling in the real world are so flawed I see no reason to even bother. People in the real world have to buy things to survive. And people in the real world have a limit on the amount of money they have to spend. Characters in game have to buy very few things and they have a limitless supply of money. No character needs to buy a purple item, or even a blue one for that mater. They don’t even need to buy a mount. Nor do they have to buy profession supplies. All these things are luxuries, not necessities. The only things a character needs in order to go out and kill mobs is green gear which can be quested for and, depending on the class, things like food and bandages. So the only necessities to spend money on are green gear, food and skills. And if needs be these things can be gained by killing lower level mobs and taking their loot.
I’ve leveled eight characters from levels 40 to 60, as well as a half a dozen lower level characters, and it’s been my experience that WoW is a very forgiving game. A character can have below average gear, and depending on the class even sucky gear, and still kill mobs and advance in level. A character can be leveled all the way to 60 without ever buying anything from another character. So what other players price their items for in the auction house is completely irreverent, as we don’t have to buy those items. Buying them makes leveling easier, but it’s not required.
So my view of selling on the auction house is simple, sell it for whatever you think you can get for it. If nobody wants to pay that price it won’t sell. If it does sell then someone felt it was worth that price.
I’ve leveled eight characters from levels 40 to 60, as well as a half a dozen lower level characters, and it’s been my experience that WoW is a very forgiving game. A character can have below average gear, and depending on the class even sucky gear, and still kill mobs and advance in level. A character can be leveled all the way to 60 without ever buying anything from another character. So what other players price their items for in the auction house is completely irreverent, as we don’t have to buy those items. Buying them makes leveling easier, but it’s not required.
So my view of selling on the auction house is simple, sell it for whatever you think you can get for it. If nobody wants to pay that price it won’t sell. If it does sell then someone felt it was worth that price.
That's exactly right Calabar!
1 post
ok dude im a used carsalesman and for you to compare me to a daytrader is a insult>.<
The logistics are, of course, sound in wanting the AH NOT to turn into an honest to got brawl-fest that ends up being too much bother than simply going after the items yourself. If anyone has played FFXI (I'm a recent convert) I really cant see where you'd be worried...yet.
The advantage here is three-fold.
1) Items drop from mobs on somewhat of a consistant basis (wish they dropped more, and if I dont get a bag soon I'm gonna blow up) but at least they drop. FFXI only drops rarely, and only stuff you could have used 13 levels ago with another job, that is unless you want the rare stuff. In which case you'll be beating JP players off of your hunt with a stick.
2) Crafting here is far and away easy. I have a 17 Warlock. My Enchanting is over 160, and my tailoring over 150. That's half-way. Granted you need the mats, but cloth drops like Mickey Mouse PJs at Micheal Jackson's sleep-overs, and I can make a lot of green items. So my supplies are really good. (Deadmines runs dont hurt either!)
3) Guilds. Pure, honest, simple, far and away the best friend a crafter can have. Maybe 4 people in the guild are REALLY serious about enchanting. The other 30 could care less, or dont care at all. They pass their stuff along, and the same holds true for those who smith. It's easy, so long as you dont act like a moron and get on your guild's backside.
Maybe I'm wrong, but debating the ideas of how to control the AH are sorta like taking a leak into hurricane force winds. If you want to not make cash by scooping up the cheap stuff and inflating the prices: Good for you! Me? I could care less. I know 1 universal way to get cash, get it quick, and never make anyone mad: Kill the ugly things that keep coin purses.
The advantage here is three-fold.
1) Items drop from mobs on somewhat of a consistant basis (wish they dropped more, and if I dont get a bag soon I'm gonna blow up) but at least they drop. FFXI only drops rarely, and only stuff you could have used 13 levels ago with another job, that is unless you want the rare stuff. In which case you'll be beating JP players off of your hunt with a stick.
2) Crafting here is far and away easy. I have a 17 Warlock. My Enchanting is over 160, and my tailoring over 150. That's half-way. Granted you need the mats, but cloth drops like Mickey Mouse PJs at Micheal Jackson's sleep-overs, and I can make a lot of green items. So my supplies are really good. (Deadmines runs dont hurt either!)
3) Guilds. Pure, honest, simple, far and away the best friend a crafter can have. Maybe 4 people in the guild are REALLY serious about enchanting. The other 30 could care less, or dont care at all. They pass their stuff along, and the same holds true for those who smith. It's easy, so long as you dont act like a moron and get on your guild's backside.
Maybe I'm wrong, but debating the ideas of how to control the AH are sorta like taking a leak into hurricane force winds. If you want to not make cash by scooping up the cheap stuff and inflating the prices: Good for you! Me? I could care less. I know 1 universal way to get cash, get it quick, and never make anyone mad: Kill the ugly things that keep coin purses.
1 post
I personally don't see any problem with day-trading. I have 2 accounts; a horde trader on one account and an alliance trader on the other. I personally love the economic aspects of the game...finding items I can either resell at an AH for profit, or sell at the opposing faction's AH for profit. Before I had the 2nd trader, I made 50-60g a weekend. Now I typically make 150-200g a weekend. With the current "War Effort" I've doubled that by increasing the amount of faction swapping I do.
I don't bother with rares or epics. I hate seeing people in the trade channel trying to sell some epic item for 2500g, and watching the rest of the crowd criticize that person for price gouging. Scalping rare and epic items for 3-4 weeks at outrageous prices just annoys me.
I look at what I do as a combination of day-trading with futures-trading. I deal solely in consumables...getting supplies to those who need it with a minimal price increase. I always try to be the cheapest price on the AH, no matter which faction I'm selling on. Sure I'll buy the ultra cheap supplies that non-traders dump on the market and resell them, but I'm not trying to make 300-500% profit. I play like Walmart...I take the supplies, add on the AH cut of 5% and then tack on my own 5% cut. The quality of the profit doesn't need to be high when the quantity of the profits are huge.
I don't bother with rares or epics. I hate seeing people in the trade channel trying to sell some epic item for 2500g, and watching the rest of the crowd criticize that person for price gouging. Scalping rare and epic items for 3-4 weeks at outrageous prices just annoys me.
I look at what I do as a combination of day-trading with futures-trading. I deal solely in consumables...getting supplies to those who need it with a minimal price increase. I always try to be the cheapest price on the AH, no matter which faction I'm selling on. Sure I'll buy the ultra cheap supplies that non-traders dump on the market and resell them, but I'm not trying to make 300-500% profit. I play like Walmart...I take the supplies, add on the AH cut of 5% and then tack on my own 5% cut. The quality of the profit doesn't need to be high when the quantity of the profits are huge.
Scholar
43 posts
This may sound crazy but, how about actually playing the game instead of spending time buying and selling items because of the (insert justification here). Most people play this game to create, build, modify and enjoy a character that goes around and plays this game. Sitting at the AH all day makes your character a glorified NPC.
What this says to me is that you did not get involved in this game to play the game, you got involved to manipulate something that you could have a limited amount of control over. Folks, it is a game, it is meant to be played. It is not the real world. It is not about stabilizing an economy. It is not about balancing the needs of the few against the needs of the many. It is a game.
The AH was most likely set-up so that players(i/e. people who actually play the game, not sit around the AH) who did the work of obtaining items could obtain other things that might be useful to them of someone in their group. Like in good ole RPG's involving paper, sometimes you join a group of people who have been playing longer. They have an item that would be useful to your character much more than their own. They either sell it to you or give it to you for the sake of better game play. They do not sell it to stabalize an economy that does not really exist.
If you have not picked up on this yet, my theory is IT'S A GAME. I apologize for the screaming but this is what turns people off to this. I have gamed for over 20 years. I love RPG's of all sorts. The human element makes it fascinating. When a human element behaves in a way that does not improve the game or add a compeling plot element, then it is removed.
Day-traders or those like them do not add a compeling element to the game. They are not actually playing it they are simply playing people. If that is what you really want to do in life, feel free to work at it and make real money you can spend on real things like an etrade account.
Please respect the spirit of RPG an behave in a more responsible way.
What this says to me is that you did not get involved in this game to play the game, you got involved to manipulate something that you could have a limited amount of control over. Folks, it is a game, it is meant to be played. It is not the real world. It is not about stabilizing an economy. It is not about balancing the needs of the few against the needs of the many. It is a game.
The AH was most likely set-up so that players(i/e. people who actually play the game, not sit around the AH) who did the work of obtaining items could obtain other things that might be useful to them of someone in their group. Like in good ole RPG's involving paper, sometimes you join a group of people who have been playing longer. They have an item that would be useful to your character much more than their own. They either sell it to you or give it to you for the sake of better game play. They do not sell it to stabalize an economy that does not really exist.
If you have not picked up on this yet, my theory is IT'S A GAME. I apologize for the screaming but this is what turns people off to this. I have gamed for over 20 years. I love RPG's of all sorts. The human element makes it fascinating. When a human element behaves in a way that does not improve the game or add a compeling plot element, then it is removed.
Day-traders or those like them do not add a compeling element to the game. They are not actually playing it they are simply playing people. If that is what you really want to do in life, feel free to work at it and make real money you can spend on real things like an etrade account.
Please respect the spirit of RPG an behave in a more responsible way.
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