I have been thinking about this for some time, and have formulated my own opinions which I will relate here when I have the more clearly thought out.
In the mean-time I think it would be a great brain exercise for the community to think of innovative solutions to this lackluster system.
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What would you do to improve tradeskills?Follow
More patterns and such, since most items can be bested by farming instances most tradeskills are kind of....sub par, I accapt Bliz donsent want crafting to take priority to questing and instancing. Long and short just more stuff, LW gets the shaft, with jsut not enuff stuff to support 3 subclasses, Alchemest, i would like to see some non potions come out of alchemy, maybe trinkets maybe a item that can permenatly enchance items(like enchants) and i would like to see enchanters make Scrolls and stuch... like temp enchants.
4 posts
Temporary scroll enchants, or "enhancements" if you will, sound like a great idea. Something like allowing 1 transmutation per scroll or something so I can make an arcanite bar without hunting down an alchemist.
Concerning Leatherworking, I think it is absurd the amount of high end regents required to make a single item, and especially since it is nowhere near the quality I can get by just farming for a third of the same timeframe.
One feature I would like to see is the ability to experiment some with the recipe. Like add more of a regent and see what happens as a result. I am well aware that this isn't going to happen, but imagine a crafting system where I can control what I make by simple experimentation and tweaking. Might turn the system into something I can invest time in without feeling like I wasted that time block.
Concerning Leatherworking, I think it is absurd the amount of high end regents required to make a single item, and especially since it is nowhere near the quality I can get by just farming for a third of the same timeframe.
One feature I would like to see is the ability to experiment some with the recipe. Like add more of a regent and see what happens as a result. I am well aware that this isn't going to happen, but imagine a crafting system where I can control what I make by simple experimentation and tweaking. Might turn the system into something I can invest time in without feeling like I wasted that time block.
i was going down the line of a cross over of sorts in Alchemy and enchanting , like some alchemy stuff that is permennt, and some enchanting stuff that is temory, like using alchemy to infuse a item with power rather than arcane magics, like forst oil but long term, have it boot off a regular enchant, or scrolls that boost agil and stuff, come on they are already in the game, jsut that nobody can make them.
As for LW I now it seems like it takes a lot but realy, it is nothing compaired to what Smithing takes, theese guys got it rough, with all the gems and stuff, eeek, all kinds of Arcnite stuff that requirs a diffretn profession to step in, they got it rough, but their stuff is actualy good. Some patterns that took enchanted leather(maybe even stacks of it)or other corss profesison items to make, but as i type this i now see some of the super cool stuff, like ,Hide of the Wild,Mongoose Boots, and the like, now they just need to add more like that.
As for LW I now it seems like it takes a lot but realy, it is nothing compaired to what Smithing takes, theese guys got it rough, with all the gems and stuff, eeek, all kinds of Arcnite stuff that requirs a diffretn profession to step in, they got it rough, but their stuff is actualy good. Some patterns that took enchanted leather(maybe even stacks of it)or other corss profesison items to make, but as i type this i now see some of the super cool stuff, like ,Hide of the Wild,Mongoose Boots, and the like, now they just need to add more like that.
yeah id agree, we need alot more items for each profession to get a more wider range of choices to pick from to put on your toon. And maybe a couple more professions to include
4 posts
Creating stat increase scrolls is something I didn't even think about. You are totally correct, they exist; what is stopping bliz from allowing people to create them?
I dropped blacksmithing around 290 because I just couldn't farm for regents 10 hours a day. I kept mining and make a killing on selling gems and ore, but I won't make my own items in that profession anymore. I can get it made free with materials, which I have most of from mining. I always tip the blacksmith when they make my junk for me.
Lately, I have been doing mining and enchanting (selling all items I get)
I dropped blacksmithing around 290 because I just couldn't farm for regents 10 hours a day. I kept mining and make a killing on selling gems and ore, but I won't make my own items in that profession anymore. I can get it made free with materials, which I have most of from mining. I always tip the blacksmith when they make my junk for me.
Lately, I have been doing mining and enchanting (selling all items I get)
I suggest making it possible to craft the 'base' items you can only buy from vendors now. Like the empty flasks for alchemy for example. This would open the door for 'uber basic' items
Imagine this:
Arcanite glass flasks. Needed for the realy good potions. Only buyable form other players who can craft them.
Also, I suggest a new proffesion: Scholar
Someone who can craft (write down) recipies for other players to learn.
Those two things combined would make the economy almost independant from NPC vendors, and compleatly gatherskill/mob-drop based.
Imagine this:
Arcanite glass flasks. Needed for the realy good potions. Only buyable form other players who can craft them.
Also, I suggest a new proffesion: Scholar
Someone who can craft (write down) recipies for other players to learn.
Those two things combined would make the economy almost independant from NPC vendors, and compleatly gatherskill/mob-drop based.
I posted this after beta. But, I still want a Lumberjack and a Carpenter Profession. The could makes Bows, Staves, Fletch Arrows, Make wooden shields. (Maybe metal shields also)
I'd like it to be more like FFXI's crafting system. Not necessarily as difficult, but some break chance and high-quality results would go very far towards creating a dynamic marketplace. Tell me it wouldn't be cool to be crafting greys for profit and having one of your green recipes "HQ" and pop out a blue.
As far as the breaks idea is concerned... I know WoW is all about instant gratification and introducing breaks would be unpopular, but it just strikes me as boring to know that I can't fail any recipe I attempt. I also seems crooked that you're guarenteed to learn something from a recipe you can't fail to make. Pet peev.
I also like the other ideas I'm reading in this thread. ^^
As far as the breaks idea is concerned... I know WoW is all about instant gratification and introducing breaks would be unpopular, but it just strikes me as boring to know that I can't fail any recipe I attempt. I also seems crooked that you're guarenteed to learn something from a recipe you can't fail to make. Pet peev.
I also like the other ideas I'm reading in this thread. ^^
Every time some FF guy comes on and talks about the crafting system like this I wonder what that person dose for a living and i hope i never depend on them for anything.
Now I dont know about you, but I am not a screwoff, when lerning how to subtract or add, it only took me a little bit of time(training) to get it to the point where I dont mess it up. When I make cookies I follow the directions, and never in my life has someting better come out of the oven other than cookies, sure it may be more exciting if sometimes I failed?(bruned) or if someing better came out, like brownies. The truth is i have made cookies for over 20 years and havent failed in 19, and have never got "Better" than wha inteded. My silly example aside I also work as a glassblower(sometiems) and when we start making say christmass bulbs for trees, it took 3 shots and i had it figured out, in the 5 years i have been making bulbs on off season I have yet to botched one.
Those are two good examples of why crafting dosent just fail(f, Because once you know how to make it, you dont halfass it and try to Experment. If you failed at your job like FF fails, you wouldnt have a job. Just immigine what your boss would say if ever 6 tiems or so you started your job you just waisetd everything you needed to do the job, as well as just completly botching what you intended, you now need to spend 3 hrs getting the stuff to do you job again. Well it is simple, you wouldnt have a job, and you had better accept the fact you are not verry good at it, and shouldnt call yourself a (fill in the blank).
P.S. I have worked in a call center with SCA folks, They made armor while helping support Dell computers, Never once did the whole mail chestpice just evoporate, if a mistake was made, they still had 99.99 of the work done and had to replace a single link. So if you realy want your "Failure system" make it real and require a extra pice of thred every now and then, I mean you are looking for reality in a MMO so give it reality, not a Fantasy.
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but it just strikes me as boring to know that I can't fail any recipe I attempt. I also seems crooked that you're guarenteed to learn something from a recipe you can't fail to make. Pet peev.
Now I dont know about you, but I am not a screwoff, when lerning how to subtract or add, it only took me a little bit of time(training) to get it to the point where I dont mess it up. When I make cookies I follow the directions, and never in my life has someting better come out of the oven other than cookies, sure it may be more exciting if sometimes I failed?(bruned) or if someing better came out, like brownies. The truth is i have made cookies for over 20 years and havent failed in 19, and have never got "Better" than wha inteded. My silly example aside I also work as a glassblower(sometiems) and when we start making say christmass bulbs for trees, it took 3 shots and i had it figured out, in the 5 years i have been making bulbs on off season I have yet to botched one.
Those are two good examples of why crafting dosent just fail(f, Because once you know how to make it, you dont halfass it and try to Experment. If you failed at your job like FF fails, you wouldnt have a job. Just immigine what your boss would say if ever 6 tiems or so you started your job you just waisetd everything you needed to do the job, as well as just completly botching what you intended, you now need to spend 3 hrs getting the stuff to do you job again. Well it is simple, you wouldnt have a job, and you had better accept the fact you are not verry good at it, and shouldnt call yourself a (fill in the blank).
P.S. I have worked in a call center with SCA folks, They made armor while helping support Dell computers, Never once did the whole mail chestpice just evoporate, if a mistake was made, they still had 99.99 of the work done and had to replace a single link. So if you realy want your "Failure system" make it real and require a extra pice of thred every now and then, I mean you are looking for reality in a MMO so give it reality, not a Fantasy.
Nice rant.
The crux of my thoughts did not center on whether the WoW or FFXI tradeskill system was more realistic; it was centered on what I find more interesting. However, failures do play a bigger role in reality than you're claiming-- even perfectly programmed machines break-down and "fail a recipe" in the real world... take the time to think about it and I bet you'd recognize that you mess up more often than you're admitting. Or maybe you do indeed make perfect identical glass ornaments each time you attempt them, but do you learn anything from those attempts? I'm willing to bet you did all your learning while you were still messing up.
At the risk of repeating myself (and to avoid the "realism" argument because, frankly, the FFXI tradeskill system relies on more fantasy than the WoW system, by far), I think I'm dissatisfied with the WoW tradeskill system because right-clicking on a recipe is all I need to do to become a master at creating the item that recipe describes. That's convenient, certainly, but it lends itself to a completely linear "learning" curve. The orange/yellow/green/grey scale only indicates your chances at "learning" from that recipe; it does not indicate difficulty; they're all equally easy to create. The only difficulty in WoW tradeskills is in obtaining materials and recipes. To me, that isn't really interesting.... maybe it's because I'm a gambler at heart.
Not that Blizzard would ever consider such an overhaul of their tradeskill system.... I'm just sharing what I think would improve WoW tradeskills.
The crux of my thoughts did not center on whether the WoW or FFXI tradeskill system was more realistic; it was centered on what I find more interesting. However, failures do play a bigger role in reality than you're claiming-- even perfectly programmed machines break-down and "fail a recipe" in the real world... take the time to think about it and I bet you'd recognize that you mess up more often than you're admitting. Or maybe you do indeed make perfect identical glass ornaments each time you attempt them, but do you learn anything from those attempts? I'm willing to bet you did all your learning while you were still messing up.
At the risk of repeating myself (and to avoid the "realism" argument because, frankly, the FFXI tradeskill system relies on more fantasy than the WoW system, by far), I think I'm dissatisfied with the WoW tradeskill system because right-clicking on a recipe is all I need to do to become a master at creating the item that recipe describes. That's convenient, certainly, but it lends itself to a completely linear "learning" curve. The orange/yellow/green/grey scale only indicates your chances at "learning" from that recipe; it does not indicate difficulty; they're all equally easy to create. The only difficulty in WoW tradeskills is in obtaining materials and recipes. To me, that isn't really interesting.... maybe it's because I'm a gambler at heart.
Not that Blizzard would ever consider such an overhaul of their tradeskill system.... I'm just sharing what I think would improve WoW tradeskills.
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I'm willing to bet you did all your learning while you were still messing
Darn Tooting I did all my messups in Training, I did not get the plackerd on my bench that says artisan glass blower becaue I make mistakes now. Most deffenetly all of my Screwups were in the 3 years I spend in school, and my first year and a half, as a aprentence.
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Or maybe you do indeed make perfect identical glass ornaments each time you attempt them
actualy I do make them "Perfect" every time as the only real goal is to make it round, and put some firt or pattern on the outside, and I do lern form them even the ones I have done Time and Time again, every bulb could be conciderd perfect due to its round shape, but as a season goes on I try diffrent color combos and experment with diffrent types of glass,each and every pice I make helps me grow . Ff I fail, like when picking herbs, I just need to try again.
If you want falures fine, They had best stop by the time you get past say journyman(in the lerning process). Heck maybe I am taking real world trade skills and reading to much in to a game.I just know if I had a FF rate of falure at either of my jobs I wouldnt be working their long.
just looking for a "where is teh iron pls thx" thread (instead of making another one)and thought I would share,
When you disenchnt an item it should becomne grey and NOT dissapear, allowing enchanters to at least sell it to vendors ^^
Yes I know...genius isnt it.
When you disenchnt an item it should becomne grey and NOT dissapear, allowing enchanters to at least sell it to vendors ^^
Yes I know...genius isnt it.
how about allowing people to repair armor
tailors fix cloth armor
leatherworkers fix leather armor
armorsmiths (not black smiths) fix mail and plate armor)
axesmiths fix axes
swordsmiths fix swords
hammersmiths fix hammers/maces
blacksmiths fix staffs/daggers/knuckle weaps and low end stuff.
maybe require them to use a component to fix it, like corse thread for low-mid level cloth/leather
fine thread for blue items
runed thread for epics
smithing uses weak flux for white/green items
strong flux for blue items
elementaal flux for epics
tailors fix cloth armor
leatherworkers fix leather armor
armorsmiths (not black smiths) fix mail and plate armor)
axesmiths fix axes
swordsmiths fix swords
hammersmiths fix hammers/maces
blacksmiths fix staffs/daggers/knuckle weaps and low end stuff.
maybe require them to use a component to fix it, like corse thread for low-mid level cloth/leather
fine thread for blue items
runed thread for epics
smithing uses weak flux for white/green items
strong flux for blue items
elementaal flux for epics
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