In respect to many posting whether its about blaming gil sellers, or gil buyers, etc., though I maybe the only who wants to do something about it rather than just posting and rating others, I am hoping this post is more of a step to the right direction. For those who haven't read Sophus posting, I suggest you do in order to make some sense of what I'm posting.
First step:
Eliminating any usage of Auction House. Any item over the amount of 100k should be bazaared. Just stand outside Jeuno, I'm pretty sure someone will check you one way or the other.
It's senseless and comical how people just pay taxes just to jack the price up. You can even shout for the sale, but don't put in the auction house.
Its not like SE is going to fix the lag in Jeuno any time soon, so rather than hearing "Welcome to so and so casino", wouldn't it be more productive by shouting items of interest?
Value:
From the price of auction house, if possible, start deducting the value of the item when bazaaring. Start by deducting the price of the AH tax for that item.
Previously I brought up end game/HNM/etc ls's. It would be a great step in the right direction if we have cooperation from those ls's in regards to pricing issues. In any way of help or form is greatly appreciated.
I hope to see response whether it is suggestion or a comment. But most importantly, a change in the game.
The one thing we have all have in common is that we enjoy this game but now the price is increasing. Now, the joy is been taken out of the game.
I am hoping we can see definite outcome by 12/31 of what should be done on this post. I look forward to seeing everyone's thoughts.
Edited, Mon Dec 26 06:00:04 2005 by ShiroMage
Edited, Mon Dec 26 06:15:31 2005 by ShiroMage
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Taxes take gil out of the economy permanently, so avoiding them actually hurts "The road to deflation". In fact if everyone used the AH there would be much less inflation.
I have to agree with LoH on this one. Using the AH or bazaaring INSIDE JUENO will in the long term BENIFIT EVERYONE.
Instead of bazaaring in batallia. Bazaar in upper jueno. Itll be better for all.
Instead of bazaaring in batallia. Bazaar in upper jueno. Itll be better for all.
People like to bazaar in Batallia simply because of the taxes... Most people do not want to pay them, just like in real life.
Why would you want to tax an over 10 million gil item anyway? I just don't understand the logic in paying more than the already made asking price.
Edited, Mon Dec 26 11:27:31 2005 by Marleau
Why would you want to tax an over 10 million gil item anyway? I just don't understand the logic in paying more than the already made asking price.
Edited, Mon Dec 26 11:27:31 2005 by Marleau
Quote:
I just don't understand the logic in paying more than the already made asking price.
Which is why people avoid using the AH which helps cause inflation.
Also tax evasion makes it so this country is more and more in debt so that hurts us all too. That mentality, as fair and logical as it may be, is not helpful in the big picture.
Scholar
36 posts
The reason why I asked not to use the AH if people save money on tax, why not use that saving to deduct the item's value. Evidently the soaring price was a result of people using the AH whether it was AH'd by a gilseller, gil buyer, elvaan, taru, hume, galka, and mithra. Where else would ppl base their price off from? I think someone said this better, if you buy something for 1M would you be a honest person and sell it back for 1M even though the value is 2M. Few may do but I can bet most of the people will sell it at 2M or slight more.
I think ppl will will agree with me on this, we can't ask for sudden big reduction for certain all of a sudden evidently. My proposal was a gradual decrease in price, I'm referring to the AH's unnessary tax. This is to purposely defeat the usage of AH for high price items and preventing basing price on the item.
I think it would be better to check outside jeuno or listen to a shout rather than looking at the AH and getting depressed about it.
What do you guys think?
Also, I'm wondering how many end game/hnm/ are interested in doing this and ppl in general.
Thoughts and advices are greatly appreciated.
BTW, SE has screwed up many jobs, so I'm hoping I don't see any post about SE should do this or that, I think this is a problem that can be fixed by us if people aren't selfish.
Edited, Tue Dec 27 04:20:59 2005 by ShiroMage
Edited, Tue Dec 27 04:23:48 2005 by ShiroMage
I think ppl will will agree with me on this, we can't ask for sudden big reduction for certain all of a sudden evidently. My proposal was a gradual decrease in price, I'm referring to the AH's unnessary tax. This is to purposely defeat the usage of AH for high price items and preventing basing price on the item.
I think it would be better to check outside jeuno or listen to a shout rather than looking at the AH and getting depressed about it.
What do you guys think?
Also, I'm wondering how many end game/hnm/ are interested in doing this and ppl in general.
Thoughts and advices are greatly appreciated.
BTW, SE has screwed up many jobs, so I'm hoping I don't see any post about SE should do this or that, I think this is a problem that can be fixed by us if people aren't selfish.
Edited, Tue Dec 27 04:20:59 2005 by ShiroMage
Edited, Tue Dec 27 04:23:48 2005 by ShiroMage
Scholar
23 posts
It seems to me that the inflation is also a result of the taxes. If an item is going for 1 mil gil, and taxes are another 50k just to put up on AH, people will put item up for 1,050,000 gil just to break even, or get their gil back. by bazaaring it in Battalia Downs, they are keeping it the even 1 mil. I think that the deflation would start with the main endgame LS's. If we all came out with a cap on items price, it would be better also. for example: Kraken Club is going for 100 mil. If we cap it at 50 mil (which is still an absurd amout of gil) and boycott buying anything over the 50 mil cap. Sure, someone might buy it for the 50 mil and turn around and try and sell it for 75mil, or even 90mil to make a profit. But if we boycott buying it back, they would be stuck with it, or forced to sell it back at 50 mil or less. just my 2 gil.
Not useing the AH will cause a loss of the information on what the price is worth. If you sell by Bazzar there is no public record of what an item sold for so items on AH will gradually build up and go down in price as people try to get thier item sold instead of sold for the most gil.
Quote:
I think someone said this better, if you buy something for 1M would you be a honest person and sell it back for 1M even though the value is 2M. Few may do but I can bet most of the people will sell it at 2M or slight more.
Of course they will. Look at it this way. Equipment in this game is just like purchasing Real Estate IRL. Rarely does the value of anything you purchase depreciate, unless you purchase it at a bad time or for more than the true value. Now this does take into account the basic principle of economics (supply and demand), so if there is a 40 items on AH and no one buying then the price will go down. Usually this isn't the case with most equipment.. especially anything worth a 1M+. Alot of people, including myself, hold onto equipment for other jobs, thus eliminating the recirculation of this equipment and making it so that new equipment must be crafted (or obtained) to meet the demand. Almost everyone (just speculation here) is leveling THF, MNK, NIN, and DRG (as second and third jobs even). So its only natural the price of items like a SH go up... and go up drastically more than other pieces of equipment.
So with that said.. If I bought anything at 1M+, I would want to try and sell it at 2M+. The reason for this is that almost all equipment increases in value over time. If I buy a house today at 200K and try to sell it next year to move into a better house, I need to sell my house for more than I bought it for. You would be a fool for selling a home that is now worth 400K for 200K because thats what you bought it for.
Our equipment is our Real Estate in this game. If everyone buys it up and holds onto it the value will no doubt increase. Especially when the demand is there, the supply is low and there is nothing depreciating the value. Automobiles depreciate the minute you take them off the lot. This is basically because of wear and tear over time. There is no wear and tear with equipment.
Could you imagine if Shields lost DEF points the more you used them? Or swords lost ATT over time? The circulation of these items would increase drastically, and the price would be lowered.
IMHO, the only answer is to ask SE to determine the true value of items (socialism ><), or add some sort of depreciation into them.
SE should just make taxes avaliable throught the entire world of vanadiel. If you cannot evade taxes there is no problem.
Scholar
36 posts
In all fairness, if this is like Real Estate, then I guess the bank would be RMT companies wouldn't it?
Honestly, asking/wishful thinking that SE would do something is a way that I would want to avoid. It is simply a cop-out to have SE do our bidding and also a dangerous one indeed. The nature of the game is slowly changing because of this. Relying SE is a big mistake in my opinion. Ranger and beastmaster would strongly agree with me. Enough said.
Evidently, why I mentioned end game ls's is the fact that they are the ones who will have probabllity of having items that create SH or noble tunic or what have you.
As far as responding to the taxes, it is a start. Like Six said, people won't lower the price but it can be helped if we just bazaared it without the stuipidity of paying taxes.
But then again, how many of us will do this?
Honestly, asking/wishful thinking that SE would do something is a way that I would want to avoid. It is simply a cop-out to have SE do our bidding and also a dangerous one indeed. The nature of the game is slowly changing because of this. Relying SE is a big mistake in my opinion. Ranger and beastmaster would strongly agree with me. Enough said.
Evidently, why I mentioned end game ls's is the fact that they are the ones who will have probabllity of having items that create SH or noble tunic or what have you.
As far as responding to the taxes, it is a start. Like Six said, people won't lower the price but it can be helped if we just bazaared it without the stuipidity of paying taxes.
But then again, how many of us will do this?
The problem with inflation is not the cost of items, its how much gil is in the economy right now. It's simple economics, think of it like this:
You have one red stone, while everyone else around you has green stones. Thus, your red stone is rare which makes it very valuable.
Now, another person makes a red stone producing factory and makes enough red stones for everyone to have. Now everyone has a red stone, which means it isn't very valuable anymore.
That's what money is like: an item. People always think that money has a set value and that this will you buy you this. That is not so; money's value changes just as often as a gem's does.
You have one red stone, while everyone else around you has green stones. Thus, your red stone is rare which makes it very valuable.
Now, another person makes a red stone producing factory and makes enough red stones for everyone to have. Now everyone has a red stone, which means it isn't very valuable anymore.
That's what money is like: an item. People always think that money has a set value and that this will you buy you this. That is not so; money's value changes just as often as a gem's does.
There's only one Sure-Fire way to cause deflation to stop...They need to ban/delete EVERYONES account. Isay we start a petition to Square Enix.
Delete and ban our accounts, or we QUIT!
Delete and ban our accounts, or we QUIT!
Not sure you'll have to many names on that petition >_>
Scholar
36 posts
2006 is already here lol. Time's up.
Going to assume that everyone will be back to blaming gil sellers and buyers.
Going to assume that everyone will be back to blaming gil sellers and buyers.
Quote:
2006 is already here lol. Time's up.
Going to assume that everyone will be back to blaming gil sellers and buyers.
Going to assume that everyone will be back to blaming gil sellers and buyers.
Or simple back to buying gil. Look at the servers with the highest prices, because that is our future. Gil has lost so much worth, it's not funny.
So many damn people were busy "farming" IGE this Christmas...
One problem is ppl feeling gimp because they don't have crap like SH. SH is very nice, but you don't NEED it. And at 15 mil, if you can't afford it, don't look at it. If I see a THF sporting a DH while using a Cermet +1, I gonna shoot him/her...
People need to fear buying gil. Start calling their asses out. You can't go from AF to Haub, dual Woodsmans, Amemit+1/Forager's, O.Kote overnight.
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