"That's gay", "What a ******", "I bFollow

Edit: The last part of the title was "I bet he likes 8======D"

I am so sick of hearing this crap on pretty much a daily basis in party chat, LS chat, and on these boards. It's extremely childish and offensive not just to me, but to a lot of people who have gay friends or family. Just grow up.

From some of the people I've talked to when I heard them say these things, they truly don't mean anything by it. Just one of those things they automatically say. Well, stop it! Step back for a moment and think about what you are doing. You are flaming an entire group of people and demeaning their very existence. You casually throw about a phrase that essentially means that to be gay is synonymous with being stupid and worthless, or that liking something you happen to dislike makes them less of a person. Maybe it's so engrained in "young people's" pop culture these days that its second nature to say this sort of thing. But it doesn't make it right and should not be acceptable.

For those that ARE deliberate in their word choice, I feel very sorry for you. Sorry that you are too narrow-minded to realize that the world is full of gay people that have shaped our culture throughout history, from countless artists, philosophers, and inventors, to one of the heroes on the Pennsylvania flight on 9/11, to my partner who is down in New Orleans helping to provide medical care to victims of Hurricane Katrina. Sorry that you continue to cling to delusions that we need to be cured, controlled, or eradicated. Sorry that you freely accept one interpretation of a document of dubious authenticity without even knowing or understanding the original languages it was written in. Sorry that (at least for the guys) you are too insecure in your own masculinity to even consider the possibility of being friends with a "***".

I don't care if you "approve" of my personal life. Frankly, I don't even care that much if you like me. But what I do expect is that everyone be treated with common courtesy and respect. It's like the old saying: "if you can't say anything nice, don't say anything at all". People are entitled to their own opinions, values, and beliefs. They are not, however, entitled to force their personal morality on others when they cannot demonstrate that substantive, not imagined, harm results.

And as for freedom of speech, I will admit that, short of libel or slander, people are entitled to express their beliefs freely, even if you disagree with them. It is questionable, however, when the expression causes more harm than good. The KKK can hold whatever rallies it wants to as long as they don't incite violence or endanger public well-being. But at the end of the day they are still bigots who accomplish nothing positive and only serve to divide our society.

What if people started saying "that's so black" or "what a *****"? You are classifying an entire group of people into a narrow-minded definition of how you perceive those others to be. The fact is communities are so diverse that you cannot easily pigeon-hole their existence into a few stereotypical characteristics. Not all gay men are promiscuous; being gay doesn't make you a child molester (in fact studies have shown that 95% of all child molesters are heterosexual). Not all are into fashion or beauty products, and not all of them are waiters, ...oh sorry, "actors". Not all of them are effeminate, flaming queens. Some are, many aren't. You only see those characteristics the media and others choose to portray. And being gay is more than just about sex; it's about who we love, down to our very core, that to deny it would be akin to being unable to live at all.

For the record, I have been in a steady monogamous relationship for over 5 and a half years. We have a house in the suburbs and share our lives together like any other straight married couple. We do not lavish ourselves on "couture" and are not gym bunnies. We work hard for what we have and struggle with our finances. We argue about stupid **** and make compromises. At the end of the day we love each other so much that it hurts to think what our lives might be like without the other.

I am considerate of others and in general do not make outlandish references to my sexuality or otherwise "flaunt" who I am. I don't hit on others in game (even though to be completely honest I occasionally look at Hume guys in a harness and subligar the same way a lot of straight guys look at Mithra in their bras and thongs). Oh, and ya, I may think Shaun is pretty cute in RL, especially in those pics where he's ****-faced with his buddies, but I know he'll get his panties in a bunch at the thought of this so I try to leave him alone. I recognize these sort of things make people uncomfortable and therefore use some sense in holding back so as not to alienate them. But when I start feeling like I am being attacked, you better believe I am going to stand up and say something.

You want to "save marriage" from becoming "meaningless"? Start by focusing on why society has created such a fierce expectation to marry that those who don't truly love each other or understand commitment feel compelled to spend thousands of dollars only to get divorced 2 years later. If your personal beliefs dictate that you should have the freedom to satisfy your hedonism, that is your prerogative. But I don't believe anyone, straight or gay, who is too caught up in fulfilling their sexual desires with as many partners as possible to ever find real love, should have the gall to expect recognition of a non-existent relationship. What is truly amazing is that certain people try to scapegoat rampant promiscuity on one gender or sexual orientation - while at the same time THEY are the ones cheating on their spouses. As long as you aren't hurting anyone, do what you feel is right, just don't be a hypocrite about it. In the meantime, let those who DO know what real love is about express that and be secure in knowing that should their partner become ill they can visit them in the hospital.

You want to save children from, well, whatever it is you don't want them to be (it seems that those who are afraid their child might "become" gay is either: 1. more worried about how it might reflect on THEM, or 2. have no solid reasoning for why it is undesirable to be "that way" other than "because"). You need to realize that no amount of "persuasion" will change a child's fundamental being. Gay children are raised by straight parents; straight children are raised by gay parents. Ultimately, even if you believe homosexuality is wrong, there are ways of passing a belief system onto them without fostering hatred of others or making anyone else out to be less deserving of basic dignity and respect. And ultimately, the best thing a parent can do is show that child unconditional love, and teach them to show the same compassion to others. Children will grow up and come to their own conclusions about right and wrong and how to live their lives, often differently from what their parents might want. But don't think that they didn't learn something from you or arrive at their conclusions without full knowledge and awareness of what you taught them.

My intention here is not to create drama, but unfortunately I already know that it's inevitable given the recent history of these boards. Rate me up, rate me down, I don't really care. Yet I am posting this with the hope that MAYBE people will realize what they're doing when they say these things, will back me up, or at least shut the hell up, and will quench my doubts about whether there needs to be separate servers for children and adults.

Edited, Thu Sep 8 10:25:33 2005 by lawtechguy

Edited, Thu Sep 8 22:00:13 2005 by lawtechguy

Kids will be kids.


EDIT:

FYI, my gay brother, uses the word *** more then anyone else ive ever meet. Kinda funny actually.



Edited, Thu Sep 8 11:19:10 2005 by acepod

But.. My brother is Half Douche. T_T

:P

Yeah, it ticks me off too, although, I've learnt to live with it. ;)

Now, if only we could eliminate all the ugly breeders. :P

Then no one would play FFXI





OHHHH SNAP!



errrr....wait

Hmm, I guess that confirms it; you're officially one of us now Sophus.

/clap!

O.o! What a concept!

Unfortunately in this crazy world of ours, even the most grownup adults behave like idiots and act in the most childish ways.... /sigh.

Well, to me, being an adult has very little to do with age and a lot to do with maturity. I know quite a few "kids" in the game I consider more adult than many other players who are out of college. Which isn't to say people don't do stupid things from time to time, but at least "adults", no matter what their age, are generally big enough to recognize their mistakes and apologize.

thats like a crackhead getting mad for being called a crackhead instead of a drug addict. i disapprove of homosexuality on many levels and will not conform to societies standards of political correctness as far as homesexuality is concerned. im so sick of homosexuals acting like society owes them something. "we want marriage", "we want these rights", "we want those rights". ugh dont act like we're the bad guys when YOU are the ones who choose to be immoral. i refuse to cater to homosexuals and care nothing for their feelings as homosexuals. this doesnt mean i would deprive them of everyones right to be respected as a person but dont ask be to respect your feelings as a homosexual. as far as im concerned if you dont like being called a ***, dont be one.

P.S. after rereading this i can already hear the screams of bigot and ******* and ignorant *******. i am not in any way a bigot but i do feel strongly when people who have no right to complain, do =(

EDIT: i just got out of the army about 3 months ago... i was one of those people fighting for our right to free speech. i intend to exercise it completely and encourage everyone on this board to do the same.

EDIT: hmmmm gay people calling us breeders and not liking the word ***? gogo hypocrisy

Edited, Thu Sep 8 16:09:27 2005 by Ayazz

Edited, Fri Sep 9 20:03:15 2005 by Ayazz

You know, a friend of mine from Junior High/High School had the exact same view as you. You know what he is now? He's gay. If you have that kind of outlook on things, you better start running away from yourself.

Also, don't talk about immorality and sh[/i]it because you know what? That bullsh[i]it doesn't fu[/i]cking apply to everyone. I hate people who mix morality with freewill. Organized religion is bullsh[i]it and so are you.

I could care less if you hate gays and want to call gay people '****'... your perogative

I just dislike people using it as a slang/insult, especially how over-used it is.. most people don't mean anything directly against gays, they just use it without thinking about it...

whenever someone says 'thats gay', I always immediately think 'what? it tried to **** you up the ***?', which generally makes me completely miss whatever you were talking about in the first place... lol

Holy sh[/i]it, you make no sense.

Morality is based off of what is right and wrong (good or evil). The teachings from Christian faith distinguish what is moral and what is not. Basically, they're telling you how to think and 'teaching' you what is good and evil (right and wrong).

Freewill is a choice made of one own's accord. You could choose to do something that may be immoral but may benefit yourself. Even organized religion in this day and age choose freewill. Not neccessarily the religion itself (because that's not possible) but the people who may consider themselves Christian or Catholic.

For example, drinking and driving could be considered immoral due to the fact that it's the wrong thing to do. Alot of people have done it and do it. To be more specific, a friend of mine was loaded at bachelor's party about a week and a half ago, hopped in his Porsche Boxster with my other friend in the passenger's seat and hauled ***. Less than a quarter mile down the road, he was going so fast that when he went up a slight upgrade he became airborne. He hit a light pole sideways in mid-air (wasn't a breakaway) and died moments after. He was a Catholic. My other friend is in critical condition.

So, I'm having troubles understanding how morality and freewill go 'hand in hand' as you say.

"dont get mad at me cause you made the wrong one and now people notice it=(."

What wrong choice did I make? Sticking up for people? Pointing out your stupidity?

"did anyone ever stop to think that the reason people use *** and @#%^er and blah blah blah as derogatory terms may be because ITS WRONG DURRRRRR"

Did you ever stop to think that people will call you a incompetant little fu[i]ck because you're basing your views without reason and don't have the mental capacity to even distinguish the difference between morality and freewill?

Edit:

"lolol zaltec. i think you have ADD man XD"

Cory is a douche pelican and I have ADHD. Could you tell? *Sits back and waits for attacks*

Edited, Thu Sep 8 16:52:59 2005 by GogetaExtreme

The point is one is derrogatory and one is not. Why must people resort to insults and ephithets instead of using a term that doesn't carry the hidden malice?


You are entitled to your beliefs as it relates to how you conduct your life; I am entitled to the same. When the two interract with each other, why not be civilized and simply agree to disagree and be on our separate ways?


Socially, EVERYONE deserves to be treated with dignity and basic human decency. As for political freedoms, I am truly confused on how asking to be treated equally means I am asking for special consideration. I build my entire life with my partner and on a whim can be fired from my job, denied hospital visitation, get penalized if one us dies and passes his inheritence to the other, ..... there is something in the U.S. called the 14th Amendment - it's time it was enforced.


What happened to "love thy neighbor"? Why do YOU chose to be openly hostile to anyone who thinks differently from you?

The "choice" debate is futile to argue but I will try anyway. I honestly don't know how anyone can think someone would WANT to be gay in a society that by and large condemns them. The only "choice" I can see is whether to deny who I am or accept it and live my life accordingly. I struggled for 5 years trying to make myslef "straight", to put the thoughts out of my head. I had no self-worth and battled depression throughout high school. I and countless teenages before and after me have thought about forgoing life altogether because we felt there was no place for use to be who we felt we were. It is not just about desire, it is about love. Love is blind, irrational. "Though we don't plan to fall in love, when we fall, we fall." We can either learn to accept it or wallow in despair and self-pity.


Ok so then if you don't like being called a "ni***r", don't be black. Ya, that makes a lot of sense.


I agree and don't typically use the term. It is way too easy to react to being called a name by throwing out another one in return. **** vs. breeders, ni***rs vs. crackers If I expect you not to call me names, you should expect the same of me.

Like Kramer said, it's hard to draw a fine line between joking amongst people of your own group and saying it in public. Most of the time friends can tell when you're teasing and using a word to make fun of it; strangers can't. Better not to use the word at all. I don't particularly care to "re-claim" the word ***** as a way to "empower" myself. I'd rather no one used it at all.

The simple fact remains that in the end it's all name-calling, and there's absolutely no need to resort to it.

As I said, it is pretty futile to argue the "choice" debate, despite knowing deep within my heart that it is not a choice. Maybe if you were willing to put aside your fears and misconceptions for a split second, we could discuss the things I and countless others went through to come to this conclusion, as I aluded to in my previous post.

You apparently have "heard" about ex-gay ministries and are eager to cling to hope that maybe we can change because a religious zealot says so. As far as I'm concerned those people have merely learned to hide who they truly are and live according to someone else's standards. Too bad you haven't actually listened to anyone directly about their experiences in struggling with their sexuality.

The "guilt" some homosexuals feel and that may drive some to counseling merely indicates that society has pressured us into believing only one way is "right". It is because of the inner turmoil we go through in seeking to reconcile what we feel down to our core being with what society wants us to be. In the end, how does my living with a man really have any concrete affect on your life whatsoever?

You seem to have missed my point. Why do you have to call me a *** because you don't like me? Why do you have to say anything at all? And as one of the other poster's said, the real point is that people use "gay" and "***" in situations completely unrelated to sexual orientation to indicate general disapproval and is not only non-sequitur but completely uncalled for.