Gotta vent here a little, but I'm writing this more to ask if I was wrong in the way I approached it, because I know it's going to happen in the future.
Alright, so we've got the NSS crew partying in Qufim currently...myself as White Mage (more on this in a moment), my static filling out various positions, and we pick up two more to fill up the party.
Now, I'm still learning the white mage job. I'm not a healer by nature, it's not something I'm used to or comfortable with. But I'd at least like to think I'm getting better at it.
We hit our camp and get down to business...and I notice that my cures are hitting our tank for...well, zero. No matter how much damage he takes, he's cured before I get to him.
That, and our hate is going everywhere. Our VERY capable tank can't hold hate to save his life. And why?
We notice we're getting "powerleveled".
Not naming names, we find out who's "helping" us, and who he's with.
And here's where I believe I made my mistake, in retrospect - I said NOTHING. I b!tched a little bit in our LS with my static, but that's about it. I was wasting MP, and gil with the juices I was popping every couple of minutes, but I didn't say about it when I should have, which I believe I paid for later.
We catch agro every once in awhile, which is when our "powerleveler" seems to conveniently disappear...
Anyway, after one particularly "fun" fight, I announce that I'm out of MP and need to sit for a moment. And we get the response that the powerleveler is "healing too, so we need to wait."
At this point, I've had it and I respond (trying to be calm, so I hope it came off as such), that we would be just fine without the powerleveler. Which gets the response that assistance is always good. Which I don't believe is true, and I respond that assistance is good if it's actually helping - but in this case, when I'm trying to learn this job, it's making me waste MP and not learn how to gauge my cures appropriately.
Back to full MP, we get another pull, and our party member with the powerleveler bolts in the middle of it. Alright, no problem. We go with five for awhile, get a sixth before the end of the night, no big problem at all.
So I gotta know if I was wrong in how I handled this...should I have spoken up earlier? Should I have kept my mouth shut completely? Should I have said something directly to the PLer?
Personally, I don't like or understand powerleveling. At any stage of development, it does not make sense to me. If you're soloing, it's the perfect time to learn the limitations of that particular job you're investing in, regardless of how many level 75 jobs you have. If you're partying, a powerleveler will only cause damage to a good party.
So I don't know. {Help me out!}
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Greetings Javex. The best thing you could of done is let him know you are learning the job and getting used to it and that you would like him to heal only when absolutely necessary.
and remeber I hit harder then you.
hehe j/k. Hope that gave ya a chuckle.
BTW I saw the greatest thing yesterday.
Windy vs. Sandy All or nothing Ballista Match. ^^
Edited, Tue Jan 11 15:06:01 2005 by neban
and remeber I hit harder then you.
hehe j/k. Hope that gave ya a chuckle.
BTW I saw the greatest thing yesterday.
Windy vs. Sandy All or nothing Ballista Match. ^^
Edited, Tue Jan 11 15:06:01 2005 by neban
Well thats a tough call.
#1 everyone seems to have different views on PL's
I for one dont mind a PL in the dunes, or qufim. I learn my jobs very quickly, and to be honest wiht you want out of those areas as fast as possible. However i remeber getting a PL when i was playing WHm, and besides raising my enfeebling and weapon skills a bunch, i found it to be quite boreing. Also IMHO WHM does take a bit more practice then a melee job
#2 Chances are, most of the party was excited about the PL. They usually are, and by you not likeing it, most of them would probably look down on you. Besides your static members of course.
#3 it is a sensitive subject for a lot of people. I would have approached subject as soon as you noticed the PLer, and went from there.
#1 everyone seems to have different views on PL's
I for one dont mind a PL in the dunes, or qufim. I learn my jobs very quickly, and to be honest wiht you want out of those areas as fast as possible. However i remeber getting a PL when i was playing WHm, and besides raising my enfeebling and weapon skills a bunch, i found it to be quite boreing. Also IMHO WHM does take a bit more practice then a melee job
#2 Chances are, most of the party was excited about the PL. They usually are, and by you not likeing it, most of them would probably look down on you. Besides your static members of course.
#3 it is a sensitive subject for a lot of people. I would have approached subject as soon as you noticed the PLer, and went from there.
Hmmm...I can definitely see your points, acepod...I think powerleveling is just on a case by case basis. In some cases it may be acceptable - just never for me. ^^ And I know that the NSS feels the same, simply because of our discussions on the matter.
But yes, I should have spoken up. I will remember that next time. :)
I still hit harder than you, Ras. :D
**Edited because sometimes I don't pay attention**
Edited, Tue Jan 11 15:50:20 2005 by JavexValerius
But yes, I should have spoken up. I will remember that next time. :)
I still hit harder than you, Ras. :D
**Edited because sometimes I don't pay attention**
Edited, Tue Jan 11 15:50:20 2005 by JavexValerius
I think you handled it pretty well considering the situation. A member of my LS had a similar situation last night in the dunes, she was using Whm, and the pt she was in got a PL. She ended up leaving the pt because she wasn't able to do her job w/ the PL being there. My personal feelings on PL'ing is that it hurts ppl more in the long run than it helps in the short term. And this is especially true for mage jobs. How are you suppose to learn how to manage hate and get a better feel for your job (in terms of when to cast and mp conservation) if you have a higher lvl player doing everything for you? I've found it really disturbing that now days if you run thru the dunes area it seems like 3 out of 4 pt's have a PL or you see a single player getting PL'ed.
Just my opinion though.
Salvation
55 Whm/ 30 Blm
Wiccancircle
Just my opinion though.
Salvation
55 Whm/ 30 Blm
Wiccancircle
Here's a more extended view on my thoughts about powerlevelling. I posted this in a thread in the pld forums.
(Javex, sorry, I think that bit about capping your skills is incorrect, yes?)
If someone joins a party and wants to bring in a PL, I think it's in poor taste s/he does not ask the group if they want a PL.
Edited, Tue Jan 11 16:50:20 2005 by ArcosKojin
(Javex, sorry, I think that bit about capping your skills is incorrect, yes?)
Quote:
Aye... I agree with those that do not like powerlevelling.
Here's my 2gil for the pot...
1. Powerlevelling is only acceptable, imo, if the job that one person is levelling will NOT be the person's main at any other time. Let's say someone wants to get thief to level 15 just for treasure hunter... fine, PL to your hearts content. PL for monk to 18 so one can get war to 37 then pld to 75? Fine, PL the monk but do not PL the war since that's a tanking job and one will need to learn how to tank. Best time to learn the basics of tanking with war since one won't have to worry about mp and when to cure oneself and such, etc.
2. Powerlevelling should be unacceptable if the job will be your main for some time.
I'm levelling thief right now (20 so far) while one of my static friends is levelling his smn. My group doesn't want to be PL'd because; a) I need to learn how to pull in a normal party situation and learn what it is to be a DD (I'm a career tank, currently pld main), b) my other friend needs to cap his skills as whm and to learn what it's like being a healer (he's a DD) and c) my friend the smn, needs to learn how to balance using his avatar and spells (curing and the like) to maximize his mp usage.
I don't mind someone tossing in a few extra cures or ripping off a link (if it's obvious our party can't handle it), but I dislike being powerlevelled.
If someone wants to be powerlevelled, fine, you're paying for your time and can choose how you spend it. Just don't do it in my group.
Powerlevelling also destroys the level card or "list of levelled jobs" card that a lot of people use to "trump" others. Even though someone says "I have x job at n level, so I know more n00b!" there's a chance that person got his job(s) powerlevelled and doesn't really know what their talking about.
Player skill is a highly desired commodity, not that it wasn't before. For example, last night my static (only 3 of us regularly but with a 4th joining in for a while) picked up a mnk20/war07 (either mnk 19 or 20, but definitely war07). Our 4th was tank but had to leave so we got a war20/pld10 (yep... you see it right). Both had a not too desired combination or levelled subjob, but the monk performed better than the warrior. He was receptive to being taught how to skillchain and did it successfully after his first attempt. The war? I told him [multiple times] who his sc buddy was and what order... he failed 8/10, he was a shoddy tank also (greatsword... no food. Provoked every 30 sec? Nope). What was the /pld for? Obviously nothing as he didn't even use his pitiful mp pool to cast cure on himself or others. Not to mention draining our whm's mp by leaving Berserk on throughout a battle. Was the war/pld the cause of a powerlevel? Probably not... but there's the possibility.
Here's my 2gil for the pot...
1. Powerlevelling is only acceptable, imo, if the job that one person is levelling will NOT be the person's main at any other time. Let's say someone wants to get thief to level 15 just for treasure hunter... fine, PL to your hearts content. PL for monk to 18 so one can get war to 37 then pld to 75? Fine, PL the monk but do not PL the war since that's a tanking job and one will need to learn how to tank. Best time to learn the basics of tanking with war since one won't have to worry about mp and when to cure oneself and such, etc.
2. Powerlevelling should be unacceptable if the job will be your main for some time.
I'm levelling thief right now (20 so far) while one of my static friends is levelling his smn. My group doesn't want to be PL'd because; a) I need to learn how to pull in a normal party situation and learn what it is to be a DD (I'm a career tank, currently pld main), b) my other friend needs to cap his skills as whm and to learn what it's like being a healer (he's a DD) and c) my friend the smn, needs to learn how to balance using his avatar and spells (curing and the like) to maximize his mp usage.
I don't mind someone tossing in a few extra cures or ripping off a link (if it's obvious our party can't handle it), but I dislike being powerlevelled.
If someone wants to be powerlevelled, fine, you're paying for your time and can choose how you spend it. Just don't do it in my group.
Powerlevelling also destroys the level card or "list of levelled jobs" card that a lot of people use to "trump" others. Even though someone says "I have x job at n level, so I know more n00b!" there's a chance that person got his job(s) powerlevelled and doesn't really know what their talking about.
Player skill is a highly desired commodity, not that it wasn't before. For example, last night my static (only 3 of us regularly but with a 4th joining in for a while) picked up a mnk20/war07 (either mnk 19 or 20, but definitely war07). Our 4th was tank but had to leave so we got a war20/pld10 (yep... you see it right). Both had a not too desired combination or levelled subjob, but the monk performed better than the warrior. He was receptive to being taught how to skillchain and did it successfully after his first attempt. The war? I told him [multiple times] who his sc buddy was and what order... he failed 8/10, he was a shoddy tank also (greatsword... no food. Provoked every 30 sec? Nope). What was the /pld for? Obviously nothing as he didn't even use his pitiful mp pool to cast cure on himself or others. Not to mention draining our whm's mp by leaving Berserk on throughout a battle. Was the war/pld the cause of a powerlevel? Probably not... but there's the possibility.
If someone joins a party and wants to bring in a PL, I think it's in poor taste s/he does not ask the group if they want a PL.
Edited, Tue Jan 11 16:50:20 2005 by ArcosKojin
As always, eloquently put, Arcos. Of course, you were there, so you're biased! BIASED!
And you DID get the magic skills capping thing wrong. Jerk. :) That's been my ONE source of pride during the entire debacle!
And you DID get the magic skills capping thing wrong. Jerk. :) That's been my ONE source of pride during the entire debacle!
there isn't much issue of hate management for whm. your job is to heal regardless of hate as long as your tank hasn't got a full HP bar.
when your tank is in danager of losing his life, whm shouldn't say i got alot of hate, so i don't heal. tank and whm are like partners, tank needs to keep provoke and hate up regardless of his own HP. (in this case, is second shield's job to get the aggro off him if really near to death). whm 's job is to heal tank's hp to full hp regardless of hate. (that's the purpose of whm's 2hr, massive hate and full hp for everyone).
hate management, however, is blm's job to learn. 99% of all the time is blm to get unnescessary hate by over-nuking. if you have a good fighters, whm's hate really really can't compare to them.
there is really nothing much to learn as a whm. you can keep pressing the heal macro and half-sleep and still get the exp you want.
More over, most jobs' full potential can't be seen until lvl30. there are many time to learn the job. playing skill of post lvl30 is very different than pre-30. this is because of many abilities of the jobs, such has thf's SATA, sam's meditation, etc. PL will hurt pld , blm and ninja and high damage dealer to learn hate management, but as whm... deal to your job, you still have to heal even you have massive hate.
Edited, Wed Jan 12 05:27:01 2005 by Fiorina
Edited, Wed Jan 12 05:36:39 2005 by Fiorina
when your tank is in danager of losing his life, whm shouldn't say i got alot of hate, so i don't heal. tank and whm are like partners, tank needs to keep provoke and hate up regardless of his own HP. (in this case, is second shield's job to get the aggro off him if really near to death). whm 's job is to heal tank's hp to full hp regardless of hate. (that's the purpose of whm's 2hr, massive hate and full hp for everyone).
hate management, however, is blm's job to learn. 99% of all the time is blm to get unnescessary hate by over-nuking. if you have a good fighters, whm's hate really really can't compare to them.
there is really nothing much to learn as a whm. you can keep pressing the heal macro and half-sleep and still get the exp you want.
More over, most jobs' full potential can't be seen until lvl30. there are many time to learn the job. playing skill of post lvl30 is very different than pre-30. this is because of many abilities of the jobs, such has thf's SATA, sam's meditation, etc. PL will hurt pld , blm and ninja and high damage dealer to learn hate management, but as whm... deal to your job, you still have to heal even you have massive hate.
Edited, Wed Jan 12 05:27:01 2005 by Fiorina
Edited, Wed Jan 12 05:36:39 2005 by Fiorina
Yep, its all your fault =p
You should've said something when you first saw the powerlvler.
Could your party get about the same exp and chains w/o the powerlvler? If no, ask your party members for suggestions on how to make the party more effective because , obviously, somethings wrong.
Sorry, Fiorina, but a whm does have to learn hate management and know how to cure different types of tanks. You do not cure a paladin tank as you would a ninja or war and vise versa. The worst thing a whm can do is spam "cure" whenever the tank is hit. White mages also learn 'regen' during those lvls and should be making use of their barspells ( ...know how many whms forgot to use them ). A whitemage must also adjust their playing style to suit that of the paladin. Each paladin has their own little styles of playing and if the whm doesn't understand her/his tank then that will cause alot of downtime. WHMs must be versatile.
You should've said something when you first saw the powerlvler.
Could your party get about the same exp and chains w/o the powerlvler? If no, ask your party members for suggestions on how to make the party more effective because , obviously, somethings wrong.
Sorry, Fiorina, but a whm does have to learn hate management and know how to cure different types of tanks. You do not cure a paladin tank as you would a ninja or war and vise versa. The worst thing a whm can do is spam "cure" whenever the tank is hit. White mages also learn 'regen' during those lvls and should be making use of their barspells ( ...know how many whms forgot to use them ). A whitemage must also adjust their playing style to suit that of the paladin. Each paladin has their own little styles of playing and if the whm doesn't understand her/his tank then that will cause alot of downtime. WHMs must be versatile.
i dont think it is the whm job to keep healing when they have hate. i have found that if you give the tanka little to restablish the hate you are better off the curing right after the voke and getting beat on again.
that only applies to the first 5 into the battle, once pld has the hate, it is really not easy to for a whm to get hate in normal circumstances.
unless the whm flash it in beginning -.-;;; only the first few seconds are critical, later on, unless you use devine seal + curga or 2hr.. whm really can't take back the hate.
even you have hate in the first few seoncd, melee can provoke it from you straight away.
unless the whm flash it in beginning -.-;;; only the first few seconds are critical, later on, unless you use devine seal + curga or 2hr.. whm really can't take back the hate.
even you have hate in the first few seoncd, melee can provoke it from you straight away.
^ yea, in like 60+ , a whm can use her highest cure spell during battle and the pld will still keep hate; but we're talking about Quifm.lol
When lvl 25 whm keeps bursting cure spells trying to keep the pld @ full hp, that whm will die.lol
When lvl 25 whm keeps bursting cure spells trying to keep the pld @ full hp, that whm will die.lol
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