the different bewteen lvl50/25 war and lvl50/5 war is defender ability.
this will prove very vital and will keep your hp a bit higher.
btw, you have also a bit more hp.
but take example of 70thf/12nin and 70 thf/35nin, that really has nothing much different apart from quicker dual wield.
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OMG this thread is gonna give me carpel tunnel form all the copy and pasting im about to do.
I+m glad you dont care that others are hindering your game experience, but i do. Im not saying everyone has to have the UBERest BESTest equipment available, but at least decent and for crying out loud a lvled sub job.
HE may have helped the party, but you gimped your party by inviting him, or keeping him. You also gimped him, because now he thinks its ok to go wiht an underlvled sub.
Yes, tell them nicely, that sub jobs add to their main job, and that there is no reason they should lvl it so their main job can be better. If its past lvl 50 and they dont know this, then give them the boot (that might be a bit harsh, but you get the point....)
It is often that severe. A 2 lvl difference, isnt all that big of a deal, but a 5 lvl difference is. On my WAR, with a lvl 12 sub (i did this just to see the stats once i was lvl 40 at the time) i lost over 60 HP and several great stats compared to when i lvled the sub up to 20 . 60 HP some ATK some STR some ACC, ect ect ect. It adds up. I want to have fun as well, but beating on a mob and almost dying because someone doesnt have a proper sub job makes me nuts.
This is the reason people have gimped subs. Because other ALLOW them to get away with it. You can not play this game solo very far with the exception of BST, so the only way they slide is if WE let them.
#1 yes we were all noobs, and i dont know about you, but i was never an underleveled sub noob. I did the best i could for equipment, and made due to get my sub lvled.
#2 yes i would much rather play with fun people then crappy people, but bad parties due to one or more persons incompetence often makes the parties a lot less fun.
First off, i dont care how good the other party members are, if your BLM and you NEVER get hit, your doing something wrong. Blm should teter on the edge of hate, and from time to time (if not a lot more often
0, your are going to get hit. When you get hit, your little taru buns are gonna be sore, and if you get hit several times, kiss them goodbye. While mages have it a "Little" bit easier, you should still have decent equipment for the times when you DO get hit.I played mage for a large portion of my lower lvl time, and i know they have a harder time farming, but it isnt impossible. There are many other things you can do besides just farm for gil. Just at least keep your sub up to date, for the spells from it.
It is there, just educate yourself and you will find it.As long as your seeking the path your OK in my book.
Yes a good player can make up for deficiencies, but imagime that good player with up to date equip and a lvled sub. All that much of a better player.
I dont kick people for having less then optimal gear, but underlvled subs and CRAPPY gear is different.
You are completly incorrect. PLD's dont sub WAR just for voke (although that is a big part of the reason). They get beserk, defender, bonuses to HP, STR, VIT, ATK, and the list goes on. Sub job does a lot more then just add the job abilities. If not, WAR/WHM would be completly acceptable.
Please see responses above. That 70 THF/ 35 NIN is gonna have probably 120 + HP and a huge difference in STR ATK ACC evasion agility, and so on compared to 70 THF/ 12 NIN. Please go equip your highest job, and write down all the stats for your lvled sub job. Then change to all the other available jobs and compare stats. put that lvl 1 mage job you never leveled on your melee, and see the big difference. You cant even buy equipment that will give you those kinds of stats. The difference IS THAT BIG.
Well along with papawarlock, i want to see all shivans performing to the best of their ability. I want everyone to have fun, but i also want everyone to have rewarding party experiences. The more prepared and equipped everyone is, the better it is for everyone. Making gil is not all that hard, but you have to invest some time in figuring out where and how your gonna make that gil. This website offers so much info on that, some in direct form, and some in the form of personal research.
I can think off the top of my head of about 5 different things people lvl 25-30 can do easily to make themselves a minimum of 10 K an hour. If you lower lvls just cant figure out a way, send me a /t in game, and ill pass some of my low lvl money making tips on to you. They all require time, and some require a little investment, but it is doable.
Thank you for letting me add to this thread papawarlock, and i hope i didnt hijack it too much ^^
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point? >.>
Their reasons for not lvling subjob and having crappy gear is good enough for meh. Not everyone likes lvling their subjob because they don't like the job. Don't want them in your parties? disband.. leave. I'm sure they could care less.
Their reasons for not lvling subjob and having crappy gear is good enough for meh. Not everyone likes lvling their subjob because they don't like the job. Don't want them in your parties? disband.. leave. I'm sure they could care less.
I+m glad you dont care that others are hindering your game experience, but i do. Im not saying everyone has to have the UBERest BESTest equipment available, but at least decent and for crying out loud a lvled sub job.
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but the sad truth is, in some areas when trying to put a pt together desperation kicks in. I have personally pt'd with a 26WHM/6BLM. Was he a Noob? Yes. Did he help the party? Yes.
HE may have helped the party, but you gimped your party by inviting him, or keeping him. You also gimped him, because now he thinks its ok to go wiht an underlvled sub.
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Any advice on how to encourage them to "be all they can be" in a polite manner?
Yes, tell them nicely, that sub jobs add to their main job, and that there is no reason they should lvl it so their main job can be better. If its past lvl 50 and they dont know this, then give them the boot (that might be a bit harsh, but you get the point....)
Quote:
Dude take a deeeep breath and settle down ^^ LOL. Yeah I know you apologized for the /rant mode being turned on and all but seriously... its not that severe
It is often that severe. A 2 lvl difference, isnt all that big of a deal, but a 5 lvl difference is. On my WAR, with a lvl 12 sub (i did this just to see the stats once i was lvl 40 at the time) i lost over 60 HP and several great stats compared to when i lvled the sub up to 20 . 60 HP some ATK some STR some ACC, ect ect ect. It adds up. I want to have fun as well, but beating on a mob and almost dying because someone doesnt have a proper sub job makes me nuts.
Quote:
Also, I can *almost* understand why some people have gimped subs pre-level 30. If they plan on picking up an Advanced Job, and their current main will be their sub for their advanced job, then maybe they have an excuse. I would suspect that they are the last to get party invites, but when you desparately need a backup melee or have a good 5 person setup, a gimped sub might not be as harmful as it could be later on. HOWEVER, post level 30 I would expect to see fully leveled sub.
This is the reason people have gimped subs. Because other ALLOW them to get away with it. You can not play this game solo very far with the exception of BST, so the only way they slide is if WE let them.
Quote:
I have two points to make:
#1 - We were all noobs at one point. All of us.
#2 - IMHO, a good attitude is more valuable to a party than having uber-equipment, and a perfectly leveled subjob. I've PT'd with plenty of people with great equipment, the 'right' job or job/subjob, with the crappiest, most annoying, arrogant attitudes. So we XP well, but it's not much fun playing with those kinds of people.
#1 - We were all noobs at one point. All of us.
#2 - IMHO, a good attitude is more valuable to a party than having uber-equipment, and a perfectly leveled subjob. I've PT'd with plenty of people with great equipment, the 'right' job or job/subjob, with the crappiest, most annoying, arrogant attitudes. So we XP well, but it's not much fun playing with those kinds of people.
#1 yes we were all noobs, and i dont know about you, but i was never an underleveled sub noob. I did the best i could for equipment, and made due to get my sub lvled.
#2 yes i would much rather play with fun people then crappy people, but bad parties due to one or more persons incompetence often makes the parties a lot less fun.
Quote:
As one of the poor under equiped mages. Let me add one point to this.
As a blm/whm, how offten am I suppossed to get hit? Never sounds good to me. lol So armor that doesnt add stats is not really an issue. I am a taru so mana supply is not a problem. I have the best I can afford, but with the best being 24k - 50k I cant farm that much. The game is not called Final Farm XI. Add in spells at 20k and rising, and food for mp regen and added mp. It gets really expensive for us lower income families. :p
Just a thought to give the other side a voice. :)
As a blm/whm, how offten am I suppossed to get hit? Never sounds good to me. lol So armor that doesnt add stats is not really an issue. I am a taru so mana supply is not a problem. I have the best I can afford, but with the best being 24k - 50k I cant farm that much. The game is not called Final Farm XI. Add in spells at 20k and rising, and food for mp regen and added mp. It gets really expensive for us lower income families. :p
Just a thought to give the other side a voice. :)
First off, i dont care how good the other party members are, if your BLM and you NEVER get hit, your doing something wrong. Blm should teter on the edge of hate, and from time to time (if not a lot more often
0, your are going to get hit. When you get hit, your little taru buns are gonna be sore, and if you get hit several times, kiss them goodbye. While mages have it a "Little" bit easier, you should still have decent equipment for the times when you DO get hit.I played mage for a large portion of my lower lvl time, and i know they have a harder time farming, but it isnt impossible. There are many other things you can do besides just farm for gil. Just at least keep your sub up to date, for the spells from it.
Quote:
Not all of us have found the paths to welath and fame, but we are still looking.
It is there, just educate yourself and you will find it.As long as your seeking the path your OK in my book.
Quote:
I am of the opinion that a good player can make a difference in bad gear, far more than a so-so player in "Uber" gear. Those that kick peeps put when they hit one level more than the "recomended" level for the area, or kick others out for having less than optimal gear are often shorting themselves.
Yes a good player can make up for deficiencies, but imagime that good player with up to date equip and a lvled sub. All that much of a better player.
I dont kick people for having less then optimal gear, but underlvled subs and CRAPPY gear is different.
Quote:
Thing is though with most tanks I've partied with, being a lvl 50 PLD/5 WAR doesn't seem to make much of a difference to a 50 PLD/25 WAR. All the primary tank wants and really benefits from subbing WAR is Provoke, hence the fact I see very few high level WAR/Something-else lfp.
You are completly incorrect. PLD's dont sub WAR just for voke (although that is a big part of the reason). They get beserk, defender, bonuses to HP, STR, VIT, ATK, and the list goes on. Sub job does a lot more then just add the job abilities. If not, WAR/WHM would be completly acceptable.
Quote:
the different bewteen lvl50/25 war and lvl50/5 war is defender ability.
this will prove very vital and will keep your hp a bit higher.
btw, you have also a bit more hp.
but take example of 70thf/12nin and 70 thf/35nin, that really has nothing much different apart from quicker dual wield.
this will prove very vital and will keep your hp a bit higher.
btw, you have also a bit more hp.
but take example of 70thf/12nin and 70 thf/35nin, that really has nothing much different apart from quicker dual wield.
Please see responses above. That 70 THF/ 35 NIN is gonna have probably 120 + HP and a huge difference in STR ATK ACC evasion agility, and so on compared to 70 THF/ 12 NIN. Please go equip your highest job, and write down all the stats for your lvled sub job. Then change to all the other available jobs and compare stats. put that lvl 1 mage job you never leveled on your melee, and see the big difference. You cant even buy equipment that will give you those kinds of stats. The difference IS THAT BIG.
Well along with papawarlock, i want to see all shivans performing to the best of their ability. I want everyone to have fun, but i also want everyone to have rewarding party experiences. The more prepared and equipped everyone is, the better it is for everyone. Making gil is not all that hard, but you have to invest some time in figuring out where and how your gonna make that gil. This website offers so much info on that, some in direct form, and some in the form of personal research.
I can think off the top of my head of about 5 different things people lvl 25-30 can do easily to make themselves a minimum of 10 K an hour. If you lower lvls just cant figure out a way, send me a /t in game, and ill pass some of my low lvl money making tips on to you. They all require time, and some require a little investment, but it is doable.
Thank you for letting me add to this thread papawarlock, and i hope i didnt hijack it too much ^^
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