To invite-a-bst: Actually some of our best members in zen are bsts, but that's beside the point also.
To he was camping for scythe: There wouldn't have been such a big issue if it was like that, but this guy has been seen repeatedly selling the gem for increasing amounts of money, sorta rules out scythe.
To we gave it back: And it's perspectives. That's that the original poster saw, but they had the members there to take despot np. They died due to inaction and confusion as to if they should give it back or not. Notice Diabolos in the screenshot? Even if all our tanks had died and everything, our smns can hold Despot for 5 minutes easily. The choice was made to give it back, and being how despot is and where he is, it's hard to get through that gate in time, so people were dying, while others zoned.
To lotto: It's taken that long before, really. I'm not sure we've tried the zone thing yet, but I heard it was fixed.
To UNCTGTAEGEG: You belong and endgame HNMls, simply because you cause more drama than the rest of us, by yourself. Just for talking out of your *** about **** you don't know anything about....because nobody even wants you in thier HNMls' for this very reason.
*tosses the camera* And I'm spent, we can debate this 'till doomsday, but all I can give is my stance. If you camp triggers in sky for profit, and your mob goes white, you're subject to the same **** that we've had to take from years when mobs are stole from us. "Keeping claim is part of the challenge of the game!" Respect is given to those that are helping others, not just themselves. Having to buy triggers because ******* camp them all the time is not something linkshells that don't support IGE should have to put up with, period.
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- Attention: Zenmetsu steals NMs
Attention: Zenmetsu steals NMsFollow
As I said earlier, it was retarded of S/E to allow for triggers to be SOLD in the first place.
It's along the lines of being able to buy quest items, it's absolutely stupid as hell.
It's along the lines of being able to buy quest items, it's absolutely stupid as hell.
Well, to a certain extent, I think SE kind of admitted their mistakes with triggers, since Limbus triggers are rare/ex. I can see why they did it this way (to make them tradable, so multiple people could hold the trigger to pop one NM), but didn't really look at the consequences of that action. Or, never thought that there would be anyone that would find it acceptable to farm these items for gil.
Quote:
Well, to a certain extent, I think SE kind of admitted their mistakes with triggers, since Limbus triggers are rare/ex. I can see why they did it this way (to make them tradable, so multiple people could hold the trigger to pop one NM), but didn't really look at the consequences of that action. Or, never thought that there would be anyone that would find it acceptable to farm these items for gil.
But what's really stupid is, there are hidden "flags" to items. Sort of liek you can trade/bazaar triggers, but not AH them. There's a "Non-AHable" tag. But, if I'm not mistaken, there's a Non-Bazaarable tag too.....but really the sense in doing that is only slight. You still need to be able to trade triggers.....if you can trade something you can sell something. Not being able to bazaar it would make it a lot better, but someone could still make a comment and trade/sale/shout to do so. Damn, sorry lol. This was a halfway thought through post. I guess that's why they left the bazaar tag on it....
Scholar
48 posts
Quote:
If you really care what others think of you end-game that is VERY SAD.
Says the person who lists off gear and such as their signature:
75drk/61thf/37war/37nin/12rng/11drg/11whm/5 smn/1bst
AF complete - Drk, Thf
AF2 Relic Set - Drk Abyss Feet, Legs, Hands Obtained
Offically a GM of FFXI -aka don't have to do sh*t
Optical Hat Obtained
Stage 1, 2, and 3 Complete for Relic Scythe.
Stage 4 (4/5 done) Currency
27 posts
EVERYONE of you who argue with morgades dont know **** about what you are talking about. You say blah blah blah he does it just for gil so basically all NM's that arent rare/ex he cant camp b/c its just for gil he needs to have to use the item?? That is like not being able to farm the items for odorous knife to pop uggalepih pendant NM if its his source of gil why cant he do it?
32 posts
Message has high abuse count and will not be displayed.
Well, it's nice of you to not compete with shells for it. And again, sorry you got a mob swiped from you.
There is no way you can win this argument, either side... really.
The OP MPK's gilsellers and the like, says it's okay to do because they're gilsellers.
OP says Zenmetsu steals his money making mobs, Zenmetsu wanted it for their members but agrees that it's not okay.
No matter how you slice it, MPK is MPK and stealing is stealing. My own opinions about MPK'ing RMT and selling trigger don't need to be brought here, but I will say that I don't agree with selling triggers. But it's your choice and no rule says you can't, it just all boils down to courtesy and how you want your reputation to be viewed.
The OP MPK's gilsellers and the like, says it's okay to do because they're gilsellers.
OP says Zenmetsu steals his money making mobs, Zenmetsu wanted it for their members but agrees that it's not okay.
No matter how you slice it, MPK is MPK and stealing is stealing. My own opinions about MPK'ing RMT and selling trigger don't need to be brought here, but I will say that I don't agree with selling triggers. But it's your choice and no rule says you can't, it just all boils down to courtesy and how you want your reputation to be viewed.
They didn't fail, they gave it back.
And back to flawed-arguements-r-us, you cannot compare a TRIGGER mob to a random other NM that drops stuff other than triggers...it just doesn't work.
By your own points, zen claimed under d and e. And your number 1 reason for not camping it when other lses are is the fact they have more members and can outclaim you. Then the next reason is, they can mpk you. I wouldn't try to make out you're being nice and giving it to them. But hey, to reiterate the whole post. Just about nobody thinks what you're doing is right. Just about everyone thinks you should be thankful we gave it back(and we did GIVE it back), and just about nobody blames us for what we did. Good job at starting ****, and I'm done.
And back to flawed-arguements-r-us, you cannot compare a TRIGGER mob to a random other NM that drops stuff other than triggers...it just doesn't work.
By your own points, zen claimed under d and e. And your number 1 reason for not camping it when other lses are is the fact they have more members and can outclaim you. Then the next reason is, they can mpk you. I wouldn't try to make out you're being nice and giving it to them. But hey, to reiterate the whole post. Just about nobody thinks what you're doing is right. Just about everyone thinks you should be thankful we gave it back(and we did GIVE it back), and just about nobody blames us for what we did. Good job at starting ****, and I'm done.
Quote:
But hey, to reiterate the whole post.
Let me reiterate as a non-Zen member:
Zen wasn't camping Despot
Zen realized a BST had Claim
Zen followed the bst, killed potential pets, took claim
Zen returned claim
Whether or not you feel the OP had the right to fight a trigger mob is irrelevant. Claim was stolen & then returned. I'm stunned at the hypocracy coming from some of you guys. All you preach about(maybe ***** & moan is more appropriate) is how none of the new shells respect the unwritten rules that have been around for years... and now you're trying to ratoinalize why your members broke those rules & justify their actions.
Zen never should have taken claim.
32 posts
Sorry for my grammar :S
b)They can get really pissed if 1 player kills an NM which they have been camping, and they must kill it on a party.
With this thing i meant to explain that it sux when u are camping an NM (which in most cases is campead and defeated by a pt), and a player comes, claims and kills it all by himself, not that the pt is going to mpking him (after all, killing/claiming his pets is a way to MPK a bst).
And trust me... i have never challenged lses to see who claims Despot first.. i just think that if they are camping it there, they need it more than me, plus i have less possibilities to claim it.
Hey, and i have a question,
if i didnt /t a collegue of mines which is inside Zen and was roaming sky, and /sh threatening that i would made this public... would you have gived me the gem, once you had defeated Despot? I doubt so.
Goodbye and to the void with you
"Morgades" wrote:
b)They can get really pissed if 1 player kills an NM which they have been camping, and they must kill it on a party.
With this thing i meant to explain that it sux when u are camping an NM (which in most cases is campead and defeated by a pt), and a player comes, claims and kills it all by himself, not that the pt is going to mpking him (after all, killing/claiming his pets is a way to MPK a bst).
And trust me... i have never challenged lses to see who claims Despot first.. i just think that if they are camping it there, they need it more than me, plus i have less possibilities to claim it.
Hey, and i have a question,
if i didnt /t a collegue of mines which is inside Zen and was roaming sky, and /sh threatening that i would made this public... would you have gived me the gem, once you had defeated Despot? I doubt so.
Goodbye and to the void with you
6 posts
http://www.jediknight.es/morgades.jpg
Edited, Tue Jan 31 14:53:07 2006 by Mastahhhhh
Edited, Tue Jan 31 14:54:38 2006 by Mastahhhhh
Edited, Tue Jan 31 14:53:07 2006 by Mastahhhhh
Edited, Tue Jan 31 14:54:38 2006 by Mastahhhhh
8 posts
The way i see this
Zenmetsu stole the NM ( They know it was wrong so they returned it) Now they are trying their **** off to defend themselves and turn the forum against the victim instead of make apology
Its blatantly obvious here zen broke the so called "unwritten" hnmls rule
Those who defended zen, its either zen member or the wannabe who willing to do anything just to get into them no matter what.. Prime example is that kid, Meph.
Zenmetsu stole the NM ( They know it was wrong so they returned it) Now they are trying their **** off to defend themselves and turn the forum against the victim instead of make apology
Its blatantly obvious here zen broke the so called "unwritten" hnmls rule
Those who defended zen, its either zen member or the wannabe who willing to do anything just to get into them no matter what.. Prime example is that kid, Meph.
It's ok to steal especially it's at sky. Who the **** cares? Sky is like a place full of **** tulia LS that steals NM all the time.
Meh, someone told me to come back....I'm too sleepy for this but this begs a reply.
You made it public even after it was given back, do you think we care about alla drama? This is nothing but reading material to take in and **** out while on the toilet....most drama is afterall. If we killed it, no you wouldn't have gotten the gem...but we gave it back. Your friends in zen had no sway, it was just an overall feeling that, even if we dont' agree with this, it should be givin back.
We shouldn't have taken claim, you're right. Had we been camping it we would have been more justified. However we came to sky most specifically for two triggers, that being one of them. We had tons of the others to my knowledge. So we get there and this is going on? Someone who's going to sell it for profit instead of put it to use for more than himself? It's natural to not like the situation and it's natural to want to do something about it if you can. By stealing we broke the rules of in-game courtesy, by giving it back we made amends in my opinion. Our people lost exp and time, he got a Despot back that was more damaged than he lost it at as well as gave him time to recover and the mobs we had killed repop. My personal opinion is, they weren't entirely in the wrong for doing it, and I support that happening because I don't support greedy ***** as much as possible. Those rules aren't tailored for situations like this, they're tailored for the big 3 and things of that nature. The rest is just respect and courtesy...of which we had none for someone that rips people off on selling the gem for more and more.
No, we're giving our side of the story. I don't think we really owe him an apology since we reversed our actions to his benefit(weakened despot anyone?). I'm defending zen out of left field because frankly, I'm bored at work with nothing better to do with my time. Most other zen members wouldn't even respond to this because....game drama is the epitome of a pointless waste of time. Noone ever accomplishes anything in these "arguements," it's all just a diversion from the same old routine in the game(or in my case, fixing a couple computers lying around the office...but hey I'm mostly waiting on replacement parts being shipped in ok!?)
Earlier statement in this post covers this.
I defend zen because, while I've more or less quit, I still love my ls. It pulls at you to defend what you love, doesn't it? The others defended our actions because in the same situation, they would have had the same inclination because sky is already **** as it stands. People like this making it even more ****** for thier own sole benefit, isn't something anyone's willing to accept with open arms.
And I realize that this is my second time saying this, which drops the meaning quite a bit, but I really am finished with this. I'm not even coming back if someone links me and says he's posting pictures of his mother naked.
Quote:
Hey, and i have a question,
if i didnt /t a collegue of mines which is inside Zen and was roaming sky, and /sh threatening that i would made this public... would you have gived me the gem, once you had defeated Despot? I doubt so.
if i didnt /t a collegue of mines which is inside Zen and was roaming sky, and /sh threatening that i would made this public... would you have gived me the gem, once you had defeated Despot? I doubt so.
You made it public even after it was given back, do you think we care about alla drama? This is nothing but reading material to take in and **** out while on the toilet....most drama is afterall. If we killed it, no you wouldn't have gotten the gem...but we gave it back. Your friends in zen had no sway, it was just an overall feeling that, even if we dont' agree with this, it should be givin back.
Quote:
Claim was stolen & then returned. I'm stunned at the hypocracy coming from some of you guys. All you preach about(maybe ***** & moan is more appropriate) is how none of the new shells respect the unwritten rules that have been around for years... and now you're trying to ratoinalize why your members broke those rules & justify their actions.
Zen never should have taken claim.
Zen never should have taken claim.
We shouldn't have taken claim, you're right. Had we been camping it we would have been more justified. However we came to sky most specifically for two triggers, that being one of them. We had tons of the others to my knowledge. So we get there and this is going on? Someone who's going to sell it for profit instead of put it to use for more than himself? It's natural to not like the situation and it's natural to want to do something about it if you can. By stealing we broke the rules of in-game courtesy, by giving it back we made amends in my opinion. Our people lost exp and time, he got a Despot back that was more damaged than he lost it at as well as gave him time to recover and the mobs we had killed repop. My personal opinion is, they weren't entirely in the wrong for doing it, and I support that happening because I don't support greedy ***** as much as possible. Those rules aren't tailored for situations like this, they're tailored for the big 3 and things of that nature. The rest is just respect and courtesy...of which we had none for someone that rips people off on selling the gem for more and more.
Quote:
Zenmetsu stole the NM ( They know it was wrong so they returned it) Now they are trying their **** off to defend themselves and turn the forum against the victim instead of make apology
Its blatantly obvious here zen broke the so called "unwritten" hnmls rule
Those who defended zen, its either zen member or the wannabe who willing to do anything just to get into them no matter what.. Prime example is that kid, Meph.
Its blatantly obvious here zen broke the so called "unwritten" hnmls rule
Those who defended zen, its either zen member or the wannabe who willing to do anything just to get into them no matter what.. Prime example is that kid, Meph.
No, we're giving our side of the story. I don't think we really owe him an apology since we reversed our actions to his benefit(weakened despot anyone?). I'm defending zen out of left field because frankly, I'm bored at work with nothing better to do with my time. Most other zen members wouldn't even respond to this because....game drama is the epitome of a pointless waste of time. Noone ever accomplishes anything in these "arguements," it's all just a diversion from the same old routine in the game(or in my case, fixing a couple computers lying around the office...but hey I'm mostly waiting on replacement parts being shipped in ok!?)
Earlier statement in this post covers this.
I defend zen because, while I've more or less quit, I still love my ls. It pulls at you to defend what you love, doesn't it? The others defended our actions because in the same situation, they would have had the same inclination because sky is already **** as it stands. People like this making it even more ****** for thier own sole benefit, isn't something anyone's willing to accept with open arms.
And I realize that this is my second time saying this, which drops the meaning quite a bit, but I really am finished with this. I'm not even coming back if someone links me and says he's posting pictures of his mother naked.
A few questions then for those who bash the OP and support Zenmetsu:
1) If Zenmetsu members are there for the trigger item, they should have been there earlier to pop the NM themselves.
FACT IS: NM was already popped by Morglades and he has brought it down to 60% by himself.
Question: Should Zenmetsu have claimed it in the first place? Some like Kuraiholy has the guts to admit that it is wrong/frowned upon but alot of the replies here disgust me when they try to deviate from this topic and pick on the OP for selling the trigger item/mpk'ing gilsellers etc which is another topic by itself.
Face it, if the endgame HNM LSes request for common courtesy from all not to steal claim etc (be it a single individual or a whole alliance that has claim on the NM), why should there be an exception like in this case? If the general community agrees that stealing NM is wrong, we should all abide by the same standards, no?
2) Morglades sell trigger items for gils to fund his own purpose. Morglades MPK gilsellers. Morglades blah blah blah.
FACT IS: The OP started a post in which some Zenmetsu members supposedly stole a NM he had popped and was fighting.
Question: Why deviate from the topic? I do not condone MPK'ing gilsellers and I reserve my comment regarding other points being made. Yet the intent of this thread is as what the OP posted. If you disagree with his other actions, start a new thread/drama on it. For here, just agree or disagree if what had happened is right or wrong and thus set a precedence for future occurence.
3) Morglades sell the trigger items for gils (his own items/needs). We (HNM LS) need it for our members and hence we get priority (as some suggested, not my words).
FACT IS: There are alot of NM being camped for gils too like Ochiudo's Kote etc. Just that this item is being farmed and all the better that A) it is 100% drop B) there is a demand for it.
Question: Why mock at him for his method of getting gils? He popped it, he could kill it, it is his source of revenue for gils. One could argue that it screws everyone over for HNM sky gods but you are forgetting these points:
A) He was there farming and popped the NM on his own. It is not as if there were other HNM LS there trying to pop too and he got claim.
B) The fact that people are willing to spend gils to buy those triggers (and in turn push up the price due to limited supply versus increasing demands). Hey, blame the people who buy them ok?
4) Last point: some posts here pointed out that he is an individual and thus should not have the right to kill the NM and thus get the drops for gils.
FACT IS: He could kill it even if he popped it. And he did popped it on his own. Why does it matter if he is killing it alone, in a party/alliance or if he even belongs to any HNM LS (reputable or not)? Why the hypocrisy?
I do not know Morglades in the game nor in real-life. I stand nothing to gain to side with him. But by reading some of the posts in here, I am appalled too, like Jafflar, at some of the hypocrisy displayed here.
While it is nice to stand out and try to support your LS or fellow LS community, please do it wisely and stress for what is right or wrong given the rules set out and agreed upon by the majority: stealing a NM is wrong.
It is nice that Zenmetsu decides to give the NM back. The OP started this post to show that despite the rules being set, things do and can happen as shown. Oh, the hypocrites... (post more on your livejournals about people "stealing" your dynamis area or NM/HNM please)
1) If Zenmetsu members are there for the trigger item, they should have been there earlier to pop the NM themselves.
FACT IS: NM was already popped by Morglades and he has brought it down to 60% by himself.
Question: Should Zenmetsu have claimed it in the first place? Some like Kuraiholy has the guts to admit that it is wrong/frowned upon but alot of the replies here disgust me when they try to deviate from this topic and pick on the OP for selling the trigger item/mpk'ing gilsellers etc which is another topic by itself.
Face it, if the endgame HNM LSes request for common courtesy from all not to steal claim etc (be it a single individual or a whole alliance that has claim on the NM), why should there be an exception like in this case? If the general community agrees that stealing NM is wrong, we should all abide by the same standards, no?
2) Morglades sell trigger items for gils to fund his own purpose. Morglades MPK gilsellers. Morglades blah blah blah.
FACT IS: The OP started a post in which some Zenmetsu members supposedly stole a NM he had popped and was fighting.
Question: Why deviate from the topic? I do not condone MPK'ing gilsellers and I reserve my comment regarding other points being made. Yet the intent of this thread is as what the OP posted. If you disagree with his other actions, start a new thread/drama on it. For here, just agree or disagree if what had happened is right or wrong and thus set a precedence for future occurence.
3) Morglades sell the trigger items for gils (his own items/needs). We (HNM LS) need it for our members and hence we get priority (as some suggested, not my words).
FACT IS: There are alot of NM being camped for gils too like Ochiudo's Kote etc. Just that this item is being farmed and all the better that A) it is 100% drop B) there is a demand for it.
Question: Why mock at him for his method of getting gils? He popped it, he could kill it, it is his source of revenue for gils. One could argue that it screws everyone over for HNM sky gods but you are forgetting these points:
A) He was there farming and popped the NM on his own. It is not as if there were other HNM LS there trying to pop too and he got claim.
B) The fact that people are willing to spend gils to buy those triggers (and in turn push up the price due to limited supply versus increasing demands). Hey, blame the people who buy them ok?
4) Last point: some posts here pointed out that he is an individual and thus should not have the right to kill the NM and thus get the drops for gils.
FACT IS: He could kill it even if he popped it. And he did popped it on his own. Why does it matter if he is killing it alone, in a party/alliance or if he even belongs to any HNM LS (reputable or not)? Why the hypocrisy?
I do not know Morglades in the game nor in real-life. I stand nothing to gain to side with him. But by reading some of the posts in here, I am appalled too, like Jafflar, at some of the hypocrisy displayed here.
While it is nice to stand out and try to support your LS or fellow LS community, please do it wisely and stress for what is right or wrong given the rules set out and agreed upon by the majority: stealing a NM is wrong.
It is nice that Zenmetsu decides to give the NM back. The OP started this post to show that despite the rules being set, things do and can happen as shown. Oh, the hypocrites... (post more on your livejournals about people "stealing" your dynamis area or NM/HNM please)
Well, I think this whole thread demonstrates a very good point ingame. I think that Zen realized that they were doing something they abhored just to prove a point. Upon further reflection, they returned the NM to this guy. I don't think this is something everyone would do, but that is what happened in this instance.
I have seen this happen a number of times, something is done spur of the moment, perhaps not completely thought through. Personally, I don't think triggers to pop NMs should be sold as someone's main income source. I also don't think that NMs should be sold...so, in my mind, both parties were wrong. Now, Zen returns the NM because they realized that just because OP does something they HATE (and I personally hate as well). Does that make their action right? No, but it does atone their actions.
I applaud Kurai for posting here, and for attempting to clarify some one sided information. To the OP: What is your point? Yes, Zen made a mistake killing your pets, and stealing your NM...you did get back, though, and I would doubt they will make the same mistake again, although they abhor your behaviour of farming triggers.
'Nuff said, I think.
I have seen this happen a number of times, something is done spur of the moment, perhaps not completely thought through. Personally, I don't think triggers to pop NMs should be sold as someone's main income source. I also don't think that NMs should be sold...so, in my mind, both parties were wrong. Now, Zen returns the NM because they realized that just because OP does something they HATE (and I personally hate as well). Does that make their action right? No, but it does atone their actions.
I applaud Kurai for posting here, and for attempting to clarify some one sided information. To the OP: What is your point? Yes, Zen made a mistake killing your pets, and stealing your NM...you did get back, though, and I would doubt they will make the same mistake again, although they abhor your behaviour of farming triggers.
'Nuff said, I think.
8 posts
Since u zen defended ur self because morgades sell it, what about this?
http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7063
Would u steal from them or maybe just think to steal it? 99%, im sure ur answer would be no. Why? because of that "unwritten hnmls rules" and the consequences.
Talking about consequences.. Heh, would be hilarious if someone go to where ever Hnms zen go, and CFH the HNM. Just to teach em until they learn to respect individual as much as group. example : KB which very easy to lose claim and CFH when the HP low or FafHog ( Fafnir/Nidhogg) while its being slept.
http://www.theorderls.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=7063
Would u steal from them or maybe just think to steal it? 99%, im sure ur answer would be no. Why? because of that "unwritten hnmls rules" and the consequences.
Talking about consequences.. Heh, would be hilarious if someone go to where ever Hnms zen go, and CFH the HNM. Just to teach em until they learn to respect individual as much as group. example : KB which very easy to lose claim and CFH when the HP low or FafHog ( Fafnir/Nidhogg) while its being slept.
I agree, let's act like children to punish the entire linkshell for the actions of one party (which was soon reversed)! Whee!
If I'm not supposed to dislike other linkshells because of a few bad apples, I don't think you're allowed to do it to me either.
If I'm not supposed to dislike other linkshells because of a few bad apples, I don't think you're allowed to do it to me either.
Jase, I read and hear of a lot of stupid crap every day but you take the cake. It would not be hilarious to steal and CFH anything for any LS or group of players. That's hardly how you teach someone to respect others.
iamsix.....please understand that while people may disagree with stealing NMs they can still understand why members of Zenmetsu did it in this case. It's part of the subject so pointing this out is not deviating from it at all.
"Hypocrite" seems to be a new buzz-word, it's starting to get pretty annoying to see it in any post by someone trying to score a few cheap points. At least use it where it's warranted and in the correct context, a small thing like that would go a long way in giving your posts a bit more gravity.
iamsix.....please understand that while people may disagree with stealing NMs they can still understand why members of Zenmetsu did it in this case. It's part of the subject so pointing this out is not deviating from it at all.
"Hypocrite" seems to be a new buzz-word, it's starting to get pretty annoying to see it in any post by someone trying to score a few cheap points. At least use it where it's warranted and in the correct context, a small thing like that would go a long way in giving your posts a bit more gravity.
You know, I was going to stay out of this topic, but seriously...there are some retarded mother ******* posting in here. Anyone that has not felt the urge, or actually tried to take a mob, even if it was only a thought...if you say you have never had the urge, I call bull ****. In the case of despot, the member was pissed off about always coming to sky and a gs'er or bst or a smn is killing a trigger for the gem, and when we turn around that person is in rolanberry selling it, instead of putting it to use.
Same **** occurs for ulli and other triggers. Even though, and I'll admit, it is wrong to take any mob from another person, the guilty person did it on a spur of the moment thing. It's not like he/she huddled up with the rest of the ls and deemed "we're gonna steal that person's trigger cuz we need it more". I just find it retarded that we have people bickering about this stupid **** still. Nm was taken from the bst, ls gives it back after killing themselves or zoning to give it back, bst is happy to have it back...should be end of story. The entire "zomg I have to post on alla about person x doing such a horrible act" is stupid...it has almost no merit because it's almost ALWAYS a one sided story and one sided stories are hella biased. Had the bst in this situation contacted a sac or the leader and discussed the problem, all this drama bs would've been taken care of. But because it was a HNM related drama, people instantly gun for the freaking forums to spread their word so they can get sympathy or pity.
Also, jase or whoever stated that selling trigger items is the same as selling odorous knife materials, it's two different plateaus of selling. Odorous knife materials are pretty damn common and can be farmed with a party of people/friends on a whim. To go camp triggers, hours are needed just for a chance of popping the nm and if a gs, bst, smn, or another ls just strolls by and picks it off...that's hours spent for nothing but a headache...for one item. Odorous knife materials aren't nearly as bad to obtain...so the levels of selling are totally different.
Also, why gun for zenmetsu to cfh every nm they claim? The damn trigger was given back to the bst. And it's hard for any specific ls (hnm or not) to teach another ls any sort of respect. Every ls has a flaw of some sort, and there's no denying it...botters, cheaters, gil buyers, and problems within with various people's actions are common. We're human, impulse actions and faulty decisions are bound to happen.
That's all I'm going to say about this crap...I'm honestly tired of this...mainly why I don't visit these damn forums, majority of people are just getting a hard on to ***** about someone, something, etc.
Edited, Sat Feb 4 04:19:44 2006 by AcidReign
Same **** occurs for ulli and other triggers. Even though, and I'll admit, it is wrong to take any mob from another person, the guilty person did it on a spur of the moment thing. It's not like he/she huddled up with the rest of the ls and deemed "we're gonna steal that person's trigger cuz we need it more". I just find it retarded that we have people bickering about this stupid **** still. Nm was taken from the bst, ls gives it back after killing themselves or zoning to give it back, bst is happy to have it back...should be end of story. The entire "zomg I have to post on alla about person x doing such a horrible act" is stupid...it has almost no merit because it's almost ALWAYS a one sided story and one sided stories are hella biased. Had the bst in this situation contacted a sac or the leader and discussed the problem, all this drama bs would've been taken care of. But because it was a HNM related drama, people instantly gun for the freaking forums to spread their word so they can get sympathy or pity.
Also, jase or whoever stated that selling trigger items is the same as selling odorous knife materials, it's two different plateaus of selling. Odorous knife materials are pretty damn common and can be farmed with a party of people/friends on a whim. To go camp triggers, hours are needed just for a chance of popping the nm and if a gs, bst, smn, or another ls just strolls by and picks it off...that's hours spent for nothing but a headache...for one item. Odorous knife materials aren't nearly as bad to obtain...so the levels of selling are totally different.
Also, why gun for zenmetsu to cfh every nm they claim? The damn trigger was given back to the bst. And it's hard for any specific ls (hnm or not) to teach another ls any sort of respect. Every ls has a flaw of some sort, and there's no denying it...botters, cheaters, gil buyers, and problems within with various people's actions are common. We're human, impulse actions and faulty decisions are bound to happen.
That's all I'm going to say about this crap...I'm honestly tired of this...mainly why I don't visit these damn forums, majority of people are just getting a hard on to ***** about someone, something, etc.
Edited, Sat Feb 4 04:19:44 2006 by AcidReign
Well Khasim, we all truly well know the agony of camping for triggers/HNM/NM stuffs as well as the competition and hours that tag along with it. Square Eniz decided to design the game this way and there is not much we can do. As someone suggested: blame the system.
While we can all empathise with the actions/sentiments or urges from some Zenmetsu members that has inevitably/unintentionally caused this thread to exist; still, the subject is about whether stealing a NM is wrong or not. Bringing in the topic of "selling triggers for gil, mpk'ing gilseller is wrong" seems an entirely different topic to me, or deviating in my opinion, which the OP did not intend to discuss in this thread.
Why is it not cor-related?
Well, the end-game ls that pride themselves to have existed for a long time (we do not have to name them do we? ;) have agreed upon some rules/etiquettes that is deemed acceptable and respectful to each other so as to ensure an enjoyable end-game experience for everyone. Here, we have some of them intentionally/unintentionally "breaking" them when they are one of the end-game ls as mentioned above who has set them. Hence the question, why the hypocrisy?
Also, if you have been reading up some threads in the past, livejournals and the such (call it no-life or anything you wish), there have been much ********* that people intentionally/unintentionally "break" these rules that was supposedly agreed upon "unanimously". Issues like dynamis schedules, HNM claimings and wipes, etc etc. So... if those individuals could be named/screenshotted and "shamed", is this thread any different from those?
Who is the judge or the standard that determines who can post something or who cannot?
Why do people respond favourably to those threads or livejournals, yet behave so cynically towards another who is essentially doing the same thing or something similar? Prejudice? Black sheeps siding with black sheeps? Or hypocrisy at its best (your actions are justified as long as you have friends who approve of it).?
Hmmm?
As for your last point on gaining some points or what not, that seems rather childish. Last time I enquired about the purpose of a forum, it was meant to be a discussion or a place for expression/debate, not a hankering after status like "Scholars/Sage" or some miserly points as you deem. One thing good though, the point system sometimes help to filter out posts that are filled with obscenities, and that is all. However, assuming people are trying to play the devil's advocate just to earn some merits is just so naive.
Points or not, some people just cannot help pointing out the hypocrisy they see. And it so happens this thread existed here in Allakhazam. Had it appeared in KillingIfrit or some other forums and some users jumping in to side with the notion that "stealing claim is right" when they are one of those who set the rules that it is wrong, I believe I will not hesitate to point out their fallacy as some others here would too.
As stated, we do not know Morgades, there is no benefit for us to side with him at all. It is true he got his NM back. It is even more true that rules can still be broken, despite those who set them. O the irony.
While we can all empathise with the actions/sentiments or urges from some Zenmetsu members that has inevitably/unintentionally caused this thread to exist; still, the subject is about whether stealing a NM is wrong or not. Bringing in the topic of "selling triggers for gil, mpk'ing gilseller is wrong" seems an entirely different topic to me, or deviating in my opinion, which the OP did not intend to discuss in this thread.
Why is it not cor-related?
Well, the end-game ls that pride themselves to have existed for a long time (we do not have to name them do we? ;) have agreed upon some rules/etiquettes that is deemed acceptable and respectful to each other so as to ensure an enjoyable end-game experience for everyone. Here, we have some of them intentionally/unintentionally "breaking" them when they are one of the end-game ls as mentioned above who has set them. Hence the question, why the hypocrisy?
Also, if you have been reading up some threads in the past, livejournals and the such (call it no-life or anything you wish), there have been much ********* that people intentionally/unintentionally "break" these rules that was supposedly agreed upon "unanimously". Issues like dynamis schedules, HNM claimings and wipes, etc etc. So... if those individuals could be named/screenshotted and "shamed", is this thread any different from those?
Who is the judge or the standard that determines who can post something or who cannot?
Why do people respond favourably to those threads or livejournals, yet behave so cynically towards another who is essentially doing the same thing or something similar? Prejudice? Black sheeps siding with black sheeps? Or hypocrisy at its best (your actions are justified as long as you have friends who approve of it).?
Hmmm?
As for your last point on gaining some points or what not, that seems rather childish. Last time I enquired about the purpose of a forum, it was meant to be a discussion or a place for expression/debate, not a hankering after status like "Scholars/Sage" or some miserly points as you deem. One thing good though, the point system sometimes help to filter out posts that are filled with obscenities, and that is all. However, assuming people are trying to play the devil's advocate just to earn some merits is just so naive.
Points or not, some people just cannot help pointing out the hypocrisy they see. And it so happens this thread existed here in Allakhazam. Had it appeared in KillingIfrit or some other forums and some users jumping in to side with the notion that "stealing claim is right" when they are one of those who set the rules that it is wrong, I believe I will not hesitate to point out their fallacy as some others here would too.
As stated, we do not know Morgades, there is no benefit for us to side with him at all. It is true he got his NM back. It is even more true that rules can still be broken, despite those who set them. O the irony.
Scholar
25 posts
iamsix wrote:
As someone suggested: blame the system.
This argument is losing more merit every time I hear it. While it is a fact that many issues could be resolved if the system was changed, this doesn't mean we should not encourage and set up our own rules. Since S-E is apparently not going to change certain aspects of the game, it is solely up to the players to make for a better and more peaceful environment while maintaining a healthy competition. There is a reason why Ragnarok end-game is a far less chaotic and more streamlined than on other servers.
However, this etiquette does not apply to everybody, 100% of the time. It is a sign of courtesy. As I pointed out earlier, this respect is earned, not granted.
Edited, Sun Feb 5 07:01:54 2006 by Amiel
Just to clarify though Amiel, in case you misread me: by saying "blaming the system" I actually meant the way Square Eniz decides to implement certain things like allowing Trigger items to be bazaared and sold. Much as it has brought about convenience to people who cannot camp for those triggers, it has also brought about much griefs to those legitimate players who has put in the effort to do so.
2 sides of the coin.
#shrug# There is not much to say about what is really right or wrong but rather what the general community agrees upon. I shall also reduce/stop my posting before I really become a troll. I disagree with stealing claims. That is my humble view. You are entitled to yours too.
2 sides of the coin.
#shrug# There is not much to say about what is really right or wrong but rather what the general community agrees upon. I shall also reduce/stop my posting before I really become a troll. I disagree with stealing claims. That is my humble view. You are entitled to yours too.
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