Gaiden,
First thank you for posting clear and considered thoughts instead of the fear mongering bashfest so many other seem intent on perpetuating.
I read your post and I do understand your position and I actually agree with a couple of your points. But I do have comments I hope you read as fully and openly as I did yours.
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Tshot.org began the introduction of adding events into their LS forum's since August of 2005. In what was a short period of time, many of the closer well-known Dynamis LS's made use of it and eventually it was considered the norm. How 'non-official' it was, did not matter, because all that was needed was a simple registration, click the calendar link, and fill in a date.
Here is something I have tried to clarify and been shouted down several times. At the time Tshot’s calendar was first used for posting times, only 1 LS used it. Lemonade. Oddly not even Tshot/Spike Flail themselves were posted in the first time slots. At the time when myself and members of my LS were attacked while doing dynamis (and yes attacked is the most accurate term, especially given the profanity and vulgarity of the launguage used) and directly ordered to drop our hour glasses because we had ‘stolen’ a LS ‘reserved time’ and did not ‘deserve’ to be in Dynamis in the first place, there were exactly 3 LS using the calendar at the time. Not the ‘rules of the server’ as I was instructed. Not the ‘majority of real LS’ as I was told. Further more, it was not one LS who took part in the bashing and attacks on myself and members. Members from at least 2, and one member claims 3, separate LS participated in the flaming in game. To the point where a member of my LS posted about it in our forums asking what the hell had happened. At the time, a very long time and respected member of our LS who had once been part of Melon was asked and knew nothing of such a calendar. Stellar from Solstice came to our forums and reported similar problems and a previous ignorance of such a calendar.
I recount this because it is the root of what I have always taken issue with. Three LS do not a make a majority on this server. To suggest such, and to make threatening and obscene comments to another LS, indeed 2 LS, in order to make them comply with ‘the rules of the server’, is highly objectionable to me. It suggests infact an attempt to become the ‘rule’ by intimidation and bullying. Come to find out, as posted in the OP here, it was not just 2 LS treated in this manner, nor 3, but from what I can tell, as many as 5. To me this people did not “consider it the norm†but rather reacted like beaten animals, and submitted out of fear. You seem to understand a bit of psychology so I’m such you understand what I am suggesting here. This is the primary reason that I have refused to post at Tshot, the primary reason I see it as a good idea executed poorly, and really am not going to be swayed from that position unless radical, public, changes are made.
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Instead in the past, which consisted of running to the Trail Markings at your LS's soonest convinience, the growing problem of an increasing amount of people on the server that became involved with Dynamis has become a steady influx that this is no longer possible. That was why Tshot.org was brought in the first place to address the problem.
I agree that numbers of persons and LS now attempting to enter Dynamis requires some kind of central location of stating intention and as much as possible dispute resolution.
I have said many times that I felt Bedrocks original motivation was pure enough, but the facts I’ve recounted have led me to believe that something changed and it has become used as a tool to intimidate and threaten. In speaking to people on the subject over the past month I hear a good amount of “I would but I’m afraid of what would happenâ€. To me this only further proves my point that many people, as silly as it sounds – because honestly what could happen?- are genuinely afraid. When I look back at the live journal posts and the general tone of agreement and even a touch of appreciation for that post and others like it I can see why people might have fear; Why would anyone willingly subject themselves to such vulgar and profane abuse? That is the very definition of intimidation.
The fact that most of those involved refuse to speak against Russta, or those like him is a larger worry. He should be condemned. Oh to be sure he has the right to say whatever he wants. But I’ll point (for those that follow football) to the recent happenings involving T.O of the Philadelphia Eagles of how a person, while exercising his right to speak, can be held accountable for his actions, even if doing so may be detrimental ( after all he is an exceptional receiver) but in service of the greater good of the team in the long term, he is being released and fined. At some point you divest yourself of offensive individuals because they drag down the larger needs of the team, LS, community, whatever.
Euripides once said, “Your very silence shows you agree.†Which is what I see here. Much Silence on the matter which to me indicates that while they may not voice the same comment, they will not speak against it because it is exactly what they want to see. They agree with it. This leads me right back to my opinion of intimidation and bullying. You can say you don’t condone it all you want, but until you condem it, not just suggest that “hey what can I do, he’s got a right to talkâ€, but openly condem and set the example that it will not be tolerated. I speak of ‘they’ in the sense of LS leaders who won’t lead in this manner. It’s not directed at any single person, but at a larger ‘group think’ in evidence here.
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Bedrock was in no way endorsing his site to be used, its purpose was rather to make times more compacted and convienient.
True he has said this repeatedly, but not one public statement admonishing those who have tried to insist others use it (referr to my comments above). If he is truly not endorsing his site, then why the staunch, resolute, refusal to seek middle ground, a possible better solution, or even authorize the one person, who while anonymous at least tried to navigate the middle and end the problem, to post at his calendar? He gives a reason of ‘how would you contact a LS leader about a conflict if the poster is anonymous’. This is a non-argument to be blunt. You know the LS, you know the time they are scheduled, surely you can find one person on the server or in the community who can tell you their name. I authorized this person at Dynamiscalendar, and I have a listing in the Ragnarok forum there listing all the LS I am aware of with the leaders I am aware of and the URL’s I was able to find. No problem finding anyone. I do wish it were a more complete list, but I’m working on it.
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In what became months after it was used, everything revolved around the calendar because simply of 'how easy' it made everything. You mark your time and date, it becomes acknowledged to the most 'well known LS's' and you start on your scheduled time. The first few months of this operation went by very smoothly with no conflicts at all.
Again I’ll go back to the fact that in the ensuing months more and more LS were subject to the same flames and abuse I was, and obviously the fact that this thread just cropped up recently shows that ‘everything’ does not in fact ‘revolve around the calendar’. I have said this was due mainly to an attitude problem. Those using it were fairly secretive, until they were ‘wronged’ by a LS who ‘stole’ their time, then they became belligerent. It’s a PR disaster in truth. If such things are still happening, then it is due to the lack of effort on the part of those running the calendar to spread the word. I made an effort to spread the word, in game, about Dynamiscalendar and was accused of “shameless self promotionâ€. You bet. Because if no one knows, no one can use it, and if no one knows you get flame wars, nasty live journal posts,etc. Which is what you have now.
Characterizing an attempt to promote a resource as ‘shameless’ and put it in a poor light as some despicable act, further strengthens my belief that the current system is flawed. Again, mainly due to the wrong attitudes at play here and the perception that making something for use by all and trying to inform all is some how ‘bad’.
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Now back to the issue where I'm talking about the increasing amount of people available to do Dynamis has undoubtedly skyrocketed. What became a few major core LS's doing Dynamis has now became multiple clusters of LSes participating in the feature of FFXI well known amongst us as "Dynamis". Since people had just begun to get used to the site, any new LS that had just sprung up and taken their scheduled time would no doubt heat any LS who were going in that time. The calendar is relied on, and thought of as a tool to prevent things like this happening. Thus, you have some certain people who do not always have time for the game or many others alike to become angered whomever had just 'taken' their spot.
Again I referr you to my earlier comments about the correct timeline of events. I’ll also throw in some facts. DBS is not new, it’s over 2 years old. The Dynamis Off shoot is about 6 months old. In either case, predating the use of the Tshot calendar. Again, at the time we were attacked, no such ‘common’ knowledge of such a location was known. So claims to the contrary or about how relied on it was/is are suspect. Especially in the first cases like my own. I can almost agree with your argument about more recent occurances except for the fact that if this is still occurring then it is not relied on save by a few who do not seem to make any effort to be inclusive by promoting it. Instead the approach seems to be a reactive assault on anyone who was not psychic enough to guess at it.
The reason I chose dynamiscalendar.com was because (rhetoric to the contrary not withstanding) because it is more top of mind than anything else. For example unless you know tshot exists, which after 2 years on this server I did not, and unless you know they run the calendar, again, which I and obviously others did not, you have no realistic way of figuring it out. ‘Tshot’ is not what comes to mind when I think “someone needs to make a calendar for dynamisâ€, but “Dynamis Calendar†does. Hoenstly when I hear “Tshot†my mind thinks Golf, as in “Tee Shotâ€. The odds are if someone were making an honest effort, with no previous information to guide them, logic would lead to trying the url “dynamiscalendar’ long before you would ever think Tshot. Again, this assuming a person had no other information to go on.
One of the largest complaints from those who have been attacked or flamed has been simply, they had no idea, no information, and didn’t even know enough to ask, yet they were attacked and flamed for basic ignorance. I personally spent 2 hours scouring the net at the time of my LS incident and could find NOTHING about a calender, or Tshot in 4 different search engines. In fact I found it endlessly amusing that when I DID do a search what usually came up was DBS’s calendar which had only been in use for less than a month at that point.
I bring that up to illustrate to the point that if it was so ‘well known’ and ‘relied upon’, search engines would have picked up on it and scored it in high relevance as such. But they did not, mainly because at the time, it wasn’t relevant. In fact go search on “Dynamis Calendar†now and see what comes up. Even search ‘Dynamis Linkshell†and see. Tshot is no where. A person making due diligence could not find the calendar at Tshot if they tried. The counter argument has been ‘well ask someone in gameâ€. Who? I know less than a half dozen LS leaders of other LS. Half of those I only know as a result of this mess. So the thing being asked of a ‘new shell’ is “You might correctly guess such a thing exists, and then correctly guess the right person or persons to ask about it who hopefully will direct you to someone who can pass you a URL where you can ask for persmission to postâ€. This is way too much onus on the ‘new LS’, is your true goal is to improve the experience in any way. A logical URL, with an policy of open promotion, multiple persons from multiple LS with administration abilities, and as much information passed through a public form as possible.
I liken the current situation to a person opening a shop and naming it “Bob’sâ€, and then waiting for customers to come in. “Bob’s†does not indicate what the business does, no person is going to randomly guess you are open, randomly guess you sell something they want, or randomly guess where you are. It’s simply not the way the world works.
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So you were greeted with initial hostility. This was not intent on trying to curse you out (although I can imagine that was how it sounded), rather, as the members of those LS's circumventing their anger towards you, simply because people had announced that it was your LS that had entered at their desired time, because they thought this problem would have been fixed by now.
Did you read the live journal entry in the OP? You can look at that and make this statement? In truth, much of what is there is fairly tame compared to what I was sent in /tells as well as what others in my LS were sent.
You bring a good point however. “They thought this problem would have been fixed by nowâ€. I can fully understand that. But it hasn’t due to the reasons I have listed above. Until those change, attitudes change, and everyone puts down their eog’s and sees it, it will not change.
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Stellar from Solstice was also victim to this first issue, where a run or two had interfered with another LS when he had initially begun. After convincing him to use the calendar, and what you had witnessed him testifying earlier in his message, he no longer has problems. [/quote]
As long as you do as you are told and kowtow to bullies they rarely have reason to beat you up. Again my objections stem from methods. I do not subscribe to ‘the ends justifies the means’’. The fact you point out that it happened to him a couple of times, which I did not know,
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Dynamiscalendar.com had just begun very recently. People and animals in society are always used to regulations and etiquette.
The man who drives his daily local road to work may have his own ways of doing it, but after doing it awhile he becomes accustomed to it. What if I were somehow to interfere with this and close a specific major road one day, then say to try this new route?
As for a majority would inevitably be unhappy, due to the fact that their natural perception had just been altered, as well as risking their arrival at work on time.
If you closed the road it would be a moot argument as there would be no choice. Everyone would be forced to follow the new route. If however the old road remained open you would have some use it and some not. Eventually a mix would ensue and the desired goal of the road commission, to alleviate a traffic flow issue, would be achieved. Not a good example.
Though I do understand what you were trying to say.
The ‘confusion’ you list suggest would be minimal in point of fact. Humans are especially adaptable creatures. We even unconsciously adapted to constant changes, small and large, in our daily lives without any interruptions in our thinking or any appreciable change in our lives in general.
I’ll provide a real world counter argument. As road construction happens quite regularly in may area, interrupting my daily commute on a regular basis, I have found, and indeed it took only an extra 30 seconds of effort, a path to work that is faster, less congested, rarely subject to construction, and actually easier to use as it has virtually no intersections and only two stop signs. Had it not been for the ‘problem’ of road construction I would never have discovered this alternative and would not be able to leave my house 10 minutes later than usual as a result. A minor inconvenience, one time, has in fact lead to greater convenience ever since.
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This is the same issue that is currently happening. You are trying to 'push' people to use dynamiscalendar.com instead of using tshot's own service, which they had just begun to get accustomed to. Just is the same as entering dynamis times.
I am not trying to ‘push’ anyone anywhere. I have even gone to the effort to post time from Tshot to Dynamiscalendar to insure anyone using It does not infringe or conflict with previous posted times elsewhere. I am also trying to find other LS calendars which use neither Tshot or Dynamiscalendar and post THOSE times to insure EVERYONE is aware of all possible scheduled runs for as many LS as possible. In addition I’ve added a listing of all LS I am aware of to make communication easier. I have not threatened, ordered, or insisted anyone do anything other than maybe check just to make sure there isn’t something they missed.
I saw a good idea, with obvious problems and some major flaws, I saw a way to improve it, make it as neutral as possible by ensuring that not just one LS had total administrative control over it, but by opening up that control to many, and a way to fix the ‘we didn’t know’ issue by promoting it. Somehow, all of that has been turned into gross negative in this thread. A fact I find truly confusing since if the true goal is communication, sharing, and avoiding conflict, how can improving a service to that end be bad?
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Give it some time, and perhaps people will eventually use it. At the same time, maybe posting your own times on tshot.org while hoping they do the same in return would be the most moral idea of proper agreement. Just forcing someone else to start acknowledging there is a new one is not going to work at all, and senseless arguments are bound to occur as always.
Oddly you use the argument ‘most moral idea’ in your comments. I find nothing moral or proper in the actions I have seen used to 'promote' the tshot calendar. In fact if you read over my post again you will see that one of my primary objections is entirely based on moral grounds. It is because of my moral (and I hate using that word within the confines of a game to be honest) objection to the methods I have seen encouraged (by not DIScouraging them, the attitudes I have seen fostered and the general negative tone of the posters here that have ensured I won’t post to Tshot. It is exactly because of my moral objection to this that I won’t. If that is egotistical, or arrogant, or what not, so be it. But it is the truth. Maybe it's just a matter of the age difference here. Who knows.
You suggest Tshot cross post times from Dynamiscalendar. You aren’t the first, but each time this is suggested it is soundly rejected. Dynamiscalendar does this, has done this, and will continue to do this not just for runs posted at Tshot but for an runs I can find posted on any calendar for any LS. Tshot has gone so far as to refuse to allow the one person who applied to them in an effort to cross post times from dynamiscalendar to tshot’s calendar. To me, this again speaks to what I feel have become questionable motiviations. If other LS were able to grant access at Tshot (and I understand why they are not, as I have said before) it would not be up to one LS to dictate who could and could not use the calendar. This is the kind of thing I mean when I say it needs to be on ‘neutral ground’ because Dynamiscalendar has no responsibility to any one LS it can allow multiple Ls have admin access and prevent a single LS and its members from dictating terms in any way. Now or in the future.
I agree with you on one point. That people will eventually come around. Because I have seen the words of the Ninteenth century German Philosopher, Arthur Schopenhauer, proven accurate so many times in the past.
"All truth passes through three stages. First, it is ridiculed. Second, it is violently opposed. Third, it is accepted as being self-evident. "
If you look back over these 5 plus pages, you will see the intial ridcule, and the more recent violent opposition (in terms of the tone of posts. AS you yourself pointed out, the thrid sstage "self-evident" is simply a matter of time.