Yes, we all know what teh perfect party set up is. So, here'e what you do. You take the idea of that perfect party and forget it! Yes this is going to be a rant. so if you don't wanna read another rant then stop now.
So, here is what happens. I have a nice party set up. WHM BLM PLD RNG WAR(me), was missing a RDM or BRD. Yes, It was a cookie cutter party if i would have found a RDM or BRD, but I know there wasn't one avable when I started the party. So I get the rest togeather thinking maybe one will pop up, but it didn't, so oh well.
I make a simple sugestion to the rest of the party. Get another DD. That idea is completly rejected and people started to disband. SO back to seeking for a party for hours again.
Think about it... You want a RDM or BRD to help teh mages get MP back faster to cut down on down time. Now drop teh RDM or BRD and add another DD. More damange done to the mob at a faster rate measn less down time. It may not be as great, but IMO slow exp is better than no exp.
I am so sick and tired of n00bs like that. Yes, that's right, all you that think you have to have the perfect party are n00bs!! Rate me down or whatever you must to make yourself feel better, I don't care.
This comes up for more reasons than that tho. I have seen friends of mine take a wanted job and lvl it to 50 or 60 in a matter of about 2 months or so give or take. I have been working on my WAR for over a year. I have good gear, I always use food, I am very open to party needs (ie changing subs or what not), ect. But, I'm not one of the "1337" jobs.
Well just wanted to get that out there, and I didn't think trying to shout all this in jeuno would work very well. People, please for crying out loud, be more open with your party set ups. I know I speak for many people (those not playing the "1337" jobs)when I say this. We are tired of sitting in jeuno or farming for hours with that little green (or red in most cases) dot next to our name. Give them a try now and again, you may be suprised.
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I'd be happy if people nowadays had updated gear, subs and actually ate food during XP parties.
Understanding positioning for fui and BRD would be god-send.
I'm assuming that by 'red dot' you're referring to the 'auto-party- thing. What this actually does, is that it apparently automatically adds you to a party with other people with auto-party up, who are of about the same level as yourself. regardless of job combination.
As for the rest of the post... there've been a billion and three arguments about party set up, and probably at least a third of them discussing the 'refresher' spot.
Edited, Sat Jun 25 01:03:05 2005 by ChemoshPrime
Understanding positioning for fui and BRD would be god-send.
I'm assuming that by 'red dot' you're referring to the 'auto-party- thing. What this actually does, is that it apparently automatically adds you to a party with other people with auto-party up, who are of about the same level as yourself. regardless of job combination.
As for the rest of the post... there've been a billion and three arguments about party set up, and probably at least a third of them discussing the 'refresher' spot.
Edited, Sat Jun 25 01:03:05 2005 by ChemoshPrime
Prob is on some mobs you need dispel. I want that more than refresh.
But anyway there are 4 basic things you need for an ideal party:
A tank
A DD (multiple prefered)
A healer
And a refresher / dispeler
Refresh you can replace with drinks but not many do. Costs gil after all. Dispel you can't replace though. That is where the problem is.
A healer... well, a few jobs can fit that roll. WHM, SMN, RDM.
A tank. Pre-74 only a few jobs fit. PLD and NIN. Sometimes WAR but not in a lot of cases (except in early levels). A war/nin tank will also need a secondary tank such as another war/nin. war/mnk can tank but needs a daaamn good whm. 74+ though you can do so many different combos for a tank. Possibilities are endless.
DDs you usually want a lot of them. Faster kill = less healing, less downtime. You're right about that. But less downtime is caused by those 4 key factors in a party. But not just one job can fit each roll. You don't /need/ a rng nor do you /need/ a blm. You just need to be smart about how you place the DD. What renkei can they do? Will that renkei do good damage on that particular mob? Will the renkei be too much of a pain in the butt to pull off?
Its partly SEs fault for making parties have these demands. But its peoples fault for thinking its specific jobs that fit each of these rolls.
But anyway there are 4 basic things you need for an ideal party:
A tank
A DD (multiple prefered)
A healer
And a refresher / dispeler
Refresh you can replace with drinks but not many do. Costs gil after all. Dispel you can't replace though. That is where the problem is.
A healer... well, a few jobs can fit that roll. WHM, SMN, RDM.
A tank. Pre-74 only a few jobs fit. PLD and NIN. Sometimes WAR but not in a lot of cases (except in early levels). A war/nin tank will also need a secondary tank such as another war/nin. war/mnk can tank but needs a daaamn good whm. 74+ though you can do so many different combos for a tank. Possibilities are endless.
DDs you usually want a lot of them. Faster kill = less healing, less downtime. You're right about that. But less downtime is caused by those 4 key factors in a party. But not just one job can fit each roll. You don't /need/ a rng nor do you /need/ a blm. You just need to be smart about how you place the DD. What renkei can they do? Will that renkei do good damage on that particular mob? Will the renkei be too much of a pain in the butt to pull off?
Its partly SEs fault for making parties have these demands. But its peoples fault for thinking its specific jobs that fit each of these rolls.
2 months on a wanted job is slow, I went 1-60 in about one month on monk.
Im going to take a wild guess and say the original poster is mabey.........late 40's mid 50's.
How about you just get a NIN tank and a healer/BLM setup. I.E. SMN, BLM, NIN, SAM, THF, RNG. Had alot of those before60 and they were pretty night.
How about you just get a NIN tank and a healer/BLM setup. I.E. SMN, BLM, NIN, SAM, THF, RNG. Had alot of those before60 and they were pretty night.
It's kind of sad really. But that's how it goes I guess.
I took WAR to 50 and stopped. In part because I simply couldn't get a PT with the job.
But if you think about it, in the NFL, Peyton manning is going to make $100 MIllION dollars. The five guys infront of him, might make 300k a year. If they aren't there, the "Elite Job" gets shredded.
The 'Grunts' have a role, we just forget to appreciate them sometime.
Personally, I have played with many a WAR, NIN and PLD since I switched, and I would invite a WAR gladly for either a DD or Tank job. Especially a good one.
I took WAR to 50 and stopped. In part because I simply couldn't get a PT with the job.
But if you think about it, in the NFL, Peyton manning is going to make $100 MIllION dollars. The five guys infront of him, might make 300k a year. If they aren't there, the "Elite Job" gets shredded.
The 'Grunts' have a role, we just forget to appreciate them sometime.
Personally, I have played with many a WAR, NIN and PLD since I switched, and I would invite a WAR gladly for either a DD or Tank job. Especially a good one.
The OP is a lvl 61 war/nin. I've been with him the entire time, as I've been lvling drg as he's been lvling war. What he says is true, people only want that perfect pt, and if they don't get what they want, they'd rather wait 4 more hours for people to log on so they can have that pt.
Had a whm tell me the other day that if I had subbed mage as drg, she wouldn't have even tried to see how i did in the pt, nevermind that my drg/mage pt from this weekend pulled about 4.5k an hour.
Meh.
Had a whm tell me the other day that if I had subbed mage as drg, she wouldn't have even tried to see how i did in the pt, nevermind that my drg/mage pt from this weekend pulled about 4.5k an hour.
Meh.
Perfect party: 6 Blms
Just playing.
To the OP. Make yourself a set, get a DD, or my fav. Lets go to X zone and kill something while we wait for one to pop.
EXP > No EXP
On a side, semi-related note there are times i really hate the way SE makes us advance in this game. I know many blms that felt like quiting their 1st 10 lvls.
But if you have a job u like stick it out, you'll feel much better once you get to that level.
Edited, Mon Jun 27 19:01:56 2005 by OmegaManOne
Just playing.
To the OP. Make yourself a set, get a DD, or my fav. Lets go to X zone and kill something while we wait for one to pop.
EXP > No EXP
On a side, semi-related note there are times i really hate the way SE makes us advance in this game. I know many blms that felt like quiting their 1st 10 lvls.
But if you have a job u like stick it out, you'll feel much better once you get to that level.
Edited, Mon Jun 27 19:01:56 2005 by OmegaManOne
I'm sure there are some cases where some kind of support is not needed for EXP parties, but...
WHM, BLM, PLD, WAR, RNG
This is a pretty standard party and I think groups like this were designed for use with the RDM or BRD. I understand what you're saying, that doesn't mean they can't fight at all without a Red Mage or Bard, but the EXP would be really low and I think the reason why most people left is that they did not want to use up their food/arrows on minimal EXP. Prices are so high nowadays, I can hardly blame them.
Some parties can be adapted to work without one of these two jobs I think, like parties with multiple RNG, perhaps a NIN tank, or anything that doesn't depend on mages too much. I dunno.. I play RDM, so I couldn't really say for sure, just a thought ^.^
WHM, BLM, PLD, WAR, RNG
This is a pretty standard party and I think groups like this were designed for use with the RDM or BRD. I understand what you're saying, that doesn't mean they can't fight at all without a Red Mage or Bard, but the EXP would be really low and I think the reason why most people left is that they did not want to use up their food/arrows on minimal EXP. Prices are so high nowadays, I can hardly blame them.
Some parties can be adapted to work without one of these two jobs I think, like parties with multiple RNG, perhaps a NIN tank, or anything that doesn't depend on mages too much. I dunno.. I play RDM, so I couldn't really say for sure, just a thought ^.^
"Had a whm tell me the other day that if I had subbed mage as drg, she wouldn't have even tried to see how i did in the pt, nevermind that my drg/mage pt from this weekend pulled about 4.5k an hour. "
well my story with a Dragoon in my skill-up party.
At the time was
69 drk/war-me
72 dragoon/blm-xxcidxx
69 pld/war-leofwine
60 war/nin-forgot his name
For 4 straight hrs we skilled up in Kuftal tunnel off robber crabs and lizards. not one of us died and we only actually rested for maybe 5 minutes at most. No what most people don't realize is a Dragoon can be a back up healer, and a great DD at the same time.
But yes some of my best parties have come from weird set ups.
Levels my thf coming up threw the 50's
Monk/war
thf/nin
whm/blm
blm/whm
rdm/blm
drg/war
we pulled in bout 4k an hr with this set up...with hardly any down time.
Yes I'd rather get 1.5k xp per hr then none at all, and have fun in an xp party instead of sitting in jueno looking at everyone's armor going by, or just sitting in a corner...
Edited, Tue Jun 28 09:12:30 2005 by UNCTGTG
well my story with a Dragoon in my skill-up party.
At the time was
69 drk/war-me
72 dragoon/blm-xxcidxx
69 pld/war-leofwine
60 war/nin-forgot his name
For 4 straight hrs we skilled up in Kuftal tunnel off robber crabs and lizards. not one of us died and we only actually rested for maybe 5 minutes at most. No what most people don't realize is a Dragoon can be a back up healer, and a great DD at the same time.
But yes some of my best parties have come from weird set ups.
Levels my thf coming up threw the 50's
Monk/war
thf/nin
whm/blm
blm/whm
rdm/blm
drg/war
we pulled in bout 4k an hr with this set up...with hardly any down time.
Yes I'd rather get 1.5k xp per hr then none at all, and have fun in an xp party instead of sitting in jueno looking at everyone's armor going by, or just sitting in a corner...
Edited, Tue Jun 28 09:12:30 2005 by UNCTGTG
90drk/90sch/61thf/60war/54rdm/40nin/44sam/
Relic Scythe Finished
Aegis Currency Finished
Drk Job Profile
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?38156
Relic Scythe Finished
Aegis Currency Finished
Drk Job Profile
http://ffxi.allakhazam.com/profile.xml?38156
3RNG NIN WHM BRD:P did 7k/hr at bibiki bay and most time was standing there avoid links..
Perfect Party set up
Beer - The core member of any party. Try to find one with a full KEG set. A solid, heavily aromored tank that can take constant hits from all directions.
Nachos - Not a good tank. Once they pull hate they can easily be wiped out in a matter of moments. But when it comes to Damage over time, nothing beats the high level nahco. Seek out a Bean Nacho for massive damage through secondary AOE attacks many hours after the battle.
Cheese in a can - If you want ranged damage this is it. Once the Cheese starts fying you know the experience is going to be something to remember. Expenive to keep around, and often hard to find but worth the effort. You can invite one with no sub, but if they are truely dedicated, try picking up one with a CRACKER sub. The combo is unbeatable.
Jaegermeister - Amazing enfeebling ability makes it a widely sought party member. WIth the devastating job ability 'Mind blank' this party memeber can hit with an effect that last for days.
Chicken Wings - Small, seemingly innocent little party members that pack a monsterous punch if properly equipped. Very versitile they can fit any role from massive fire damage to back up healer with a few well timed "blue Cheese" and "Celery II" spells. One of the few jobs who can solo easily, though is usually best duoing with BEER. Beware of Noobs who think the new jobs like "Honey" and "Hawaiian" make for good subs.
Maalox - Every party needs healing at some point. This class can take away most maladies and restore the party quickly. Best to try and find a Maalox subbing either asprin or tylenol.
Suggested items to carry at all times
If things totally out of hand, it might be wise for party members to carry a scroll of "Ipecac" for those times when you need to get someone or something re-raised.
it might also be wise to have some member of your LS switch to the "Wingman" job class and be on call. You never know when you might need someone to cast "Designated Driver" on a party member.
Hopes this helps ;)
Beer - The core member of any party. Try to find one with a full KEG set. A solid, heavily aromored tank that can take constant hits from all directions.
Nachos - Not a good tank. Once they pull hate they can easily be wiped out in a matter of moments. But when it comes to Damage over time, nothing beats the high level nahco. Seek out a Bean Nacho for massive damage through secondary AOE attacks many hours after the battle.
Cheese in a can - If you want ranged damage this is it. Once the Cheese starts fying you know the experience is going to be something to remember. Expenive to keep around, and often hard to find but worth the effort. You can invite one with no sub, but if they are truely dedicated, try picking up one with a CRACKER sub. The combo is unbeatable.
Jaegermeister - Amazing enfeebling ability makes it a widely sought party member. WIth the devastating job ability 'Mind blank' this party memeber can hit with an effect that last for days.
Chicken Wings - Small, seemingly innocent little party members that pack a monsterous punch if properly equipped. Very versitile they can fit any role from massive fire damage to back up healer with a few well timed "blue Cheese" and "Celery II" spells. One of the few jobs who can solo easily, though is usually best duoing with BEER. Beware of Noobs who think the new jobs like "Honey" and "Hawaiian" make for good subs.
Maalox - Every party needs healing at some point. This class can take away most maladies and restore the party quickly. Best to try and find a Maalox subbing either asprin or tylenol.
Suggested items to carry at all times
If things totally out of hand, it might be wise for party members to carry a scroll of "Ipecac" for those times when you need to get someone or something re-raised.
it might also be wise to have some member of your LS switch to the "Wingman" job class and be on call. You never know when you might need someone to cast "Designated Driver" on a party member.
Hopes this helps ;)
I haven't played ninja much, but I decided to try to hopefully level it to level 37 before the July patch commences.
As a nin25, I took the airship to Kazam and while waiting for the airship to arrive, I try to filter out the memories of overcrowded camping areas where everyone is vying for mandies or goblins.
As I exit the airship, I receive a /tell asking if I wished to join a party. I gladly said "yes" and the party is constructed... after an hour, we have the following composition:
nin26/war
nin25/war (me)
thf25/nin
whm26/blm
blm25/whm
bard24/whm
To my chagrin, it took me a bit of time to get into the flow of blink tanking again since I haven't played nin for about 5 months. And when I did level nin, I was usually solo tanking. It was a pleasent relief to have a duo blink tank in the party.
After an hour of XPing, everyone has leveled once and the XP seems to be flowing fairly well, our whm and blm informs the party leader of their need to leave the party. Our whm is replaced by a whm25 and our blm is replace by a thf26/nin.
I was thinking "2 nin and 2 thf" in a party...not sure how well it would work out.
I was pleasantly surprised at how well the party setup worked in kazam: nin/nin/thf/thf/whm/brd.
We were receiving chain #5 regularly, and probably missed out on the chain #6 due to lack of closeby mobs. It was a great sight to behold watching 2 nins and 2 thfs go all out on the mobs due to having access to utsu:ichi. And having the thfs close the distortion skillchains with sneak attack+ws made taking down the goblin smithies a ton easier.
I went from level 25->28 in about 3.5 hours.
I wish all my XP parties are like this...oh well, only 9 more levels to go....
Take care everyone and please try out different XP party configurations, you maybe pleasantly surprised...I sure was.
As a nin25, I took the airship to Kazam and while waiting for the airship to arrive, I try to filter out the memories of overcrowded camping areas where everyone is vying for mandies or goblins.
As I exit the airship, I receive a /tell asking if I wished to join a party. I gladly said "yes" and the party is constructed... after an hour, we have the following composition:
nin26/war
nin25/war (me)
thf25/nin
whm26/blm
blm25/whm
bard24/whm
To my chagrin, it took me a bit of time to get into the flow of blink tanking again since I haven't played nin for about 5 months. And when I did level nin, I was usually solo tanking. It was a pleasent relief to have a duo blink tank in the party.
After an hour of XPing, everyone has leveled once and the XP seems to be flowing fairly well, our whm and blm informs the party leader of their need to leave the party. Our whm is replaced by a whm25 and our blm is replace by a thf26/nin.
I was thinking "2 nin and 2 thf" in a party...not sure how well it would work out.
I was pleasantly surprised at how well the party setup worked in kazam: nin/nin/thf/thf/whm/brd.
We were receiving chain #5 regularly, and probably missed out on the chain #6 due to lack of closeby mobs. It was a great sight to behold watching 2 nins and 2 thfs go all out on the mobs due to having access to utsu:ichi. And having the thfs close the distortion skillchains with sneak attack+ws made taking down the goblin smithies a ton easier.
I went from level 25->28 in about 3.5 hours.
I wish all my XP parties are like this...oh well, only 9 more levels to go....
Take care everyone and please try out different XP party configurations, you maybe pleasantly surprised...I sure was.
You know Van...the party was only good because you were in it. ^_^
Thanks for the compliment (cheque is in the mail eek... j/k).
But I have to give accolades to everyone in the whole party for making the party so effortless and fun to play in.
In the past many month, I grew a bit frustrated with parties that seem to just clunk along; and consequentially, I started playing bst....I'm at bst61 atm>>>alot of solo time made me miss party dynamics ... lol.
I'm omw to kazam and hopefully I will be lucky and find a good and fun party for the second day in a row /crosses fingers.
But I have to give accolades to everyone in the whole party for making the party so effortless and fun to play in.
In the past many month, I grew a bit frustrated with parties that seem to just clunk along; and consequentially, I started playing bst....I'm at bst61 atm>>>alot of solo time made me miss party dynamics ... lol.
I'm omw to kazam and hopefully I will be lucky and find a good and fun party for the second day in a row /crosses fingers.
In my mind the perfect party setup is MNK MNK MNK BRD WHM RDM
The perfect party is the one where you get fast experience points and rarely die.
End of story.
End of story.
*ahem* sturg. did you go 41 levels with a job no body wanted in thier party?
i thought not.
but i luff ya anyway. hahahahaha!
(rdm>war)XD
i thought not.
but i luff ya anyway. hahahahaha!
(rdm>war)XD
I've done quite a few parties without a refresher. It can get tough, but if everyone works together it can work out. In those cases, I try to pick up a whm and a blm, or a smn if one of the others isn't available. Being a smn myself the mage side gets pretty interesting. My equipment and food is set up to regain mp back as fast as possible without a refresh because I enjoy soloing and I always have drinks on me. But in parties like that, it's very rare for me to have to go to a drink. Usually we take turns with curing so all of the mages always have enough of mp to do their job. Usually takes a chain or so to get things going smoothly, but once you do, the experience can start rolling in just like with a cookie cutter party, sometimes even more since everyone is also contributing to the damage.
And don't forget, if you have a smn in your party and they have fenrir, you have your dispel. Sure, it's not as good as a rdm or brds since it can't be used at an instant, but it's there and it does a damn good job. And sometimes people have odd subs ready to go that can help fill the missing role. Don't be afraid to experiment with the odd combos if your party is nontraditional.
And don't forget, if you have a smn in your party and they have fenrir, you have your dispel. Sure, it's not as good as a rdm or brds since it can't be used at an instant, but it's there and it does a damn good job. And sometimes people have odd subs ready to go that can help fill the missing role. Don't be afraid to experiment with the odd combos if your party is nontraditional.
Overlord Eekiki wrote:
The perfect party is the one where you get fast experience points and rarely die.
End of story.
End of story.
Hum, we do not all agree with this statement.
I've been in PT with NIN MNK RNG RNG RNG (rdm me). Fast XP, no death. 2 quick levels. Boring like hell. It's a game, and having nothing to do but regen - haste, and hardly ever a cure, with not even enough time to cast a paralyse before target is dead ? no thanks.
A perfect party is the one where you find fun, excitment. Then, the two bonus are : XP, nice to have but not required ; and no death, just because deaths create downtimes, during which we can still find fun, but no more excitment.
Now, I understand that the jobs throwing huge gil amount into each target want XP to balance it. But as a mage, apart medecines and food drinks, XP doesn't cost me a lot, and I'm happy with Party dynamic, I'd party with no XP at all.
On the other hand, if XP is decent, but people aren't fun at the moment, or worst, are complaining about everything, I'll look for a replacement.
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