I was thinking how much time and effort is required to level a job to 75, and I bet if SE actually took action and banned a pile of those accounts and associated IP and Hardware addresses it could make a dent in the gilseller economy, that would be a lot of time wasted etc. I think the just afraid to upset the little balance they got going on. Maybe SE is afraid of changing the equation or they just don't think it's a big issue. If they cared, I'm sure they would actually do something more extensive than the little incident a few months back when logitech got cancelled. Just seems like a endless spiral.
I don't predict them kicking the sellers because my theory is that SE is somehow profiting, possibly by kickback or some type of sharehold. Seems to me there's not much money in the fees and cost of game if you figure the cost to run a server, marketing campaign, and a professional staff to "maintain" it. I think gilsellers are a part of the game because they are unofficially wanted. Imagine if you were SE and could profit off imaginary money in an imaginary world, and therefore cause your "clients/endusers" to be even more invested in the whole deal. That's my crazy theory.
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I don't predict them kicking the sellers because my theory is that SE is somehow profiting, possibly by kickback or some type of sharehold. Seems to me there's not much money in the fees and cost of game if you figure the cost to run a server, marketing campaign, and a professional staff to "maintain" it. I think gilsellers are a part of the game because they are unofficially wanted. Imagine if you were SE and could profit off imaginary money in an imaginary world, and therefore cause your "clients/endusers" to be even more invested in the whole deal. That's my crazy theory.
SE's secret conspiracy theory XD
pretty interesting idea
Edited, Fri Jun 10 00:06:11 2005 by PhaseofRagnarok
Phase, I have partied with smaller parties and the most abnormal setups. In fact, I often find them quite more enjoyable. But I also know that I've been invited to parties, we went out, we were doing good, someone left, and they have invited people who I normally wouldn't want in a party. I'm not going to leave and spend 3 more hours waiting for an invite when the rest of the party is just fine. And when I say someone who I normally wouldn't invite, it could just be a plain old bad player who isn't good at their job.
I have nothing wrong with people who don't spend millions upon millions on their equipment. As long as you try to keep your character respectable, I'm a happy camper. Not everyone has hours upon hours to dedicate to farming for the best. But that's just my point. Sometimes, no matter how flexible you are, you end up in a party with someone you don't like or is suspected, with no proof of doing something harmful to the server. To me, it's rather childish to leave a party because so and so is accused of buying gil when the rest of the party has been doing well.
Sometimes the witch hunts is what drives people to do these things. If you are constantly being accused of buying gil when you are busting your butt to farm, and your rep goes into the toilet, why not just turn to buying gil instead of wasting hourst to farm? Everyone already thinks you do anyway.
As for the sellers as long as there is a market, they are going to be in our world trying to advance in the game to make more money. They are going to get there with or without our help. I'm not saying it's ok to help them. But for people who do end up getting in an exp party with them and not wanting to leave because the rest of the party is good, I don't think we should crucify them either. Not to mention with all of the accusations flying around of who is and who isn't a buyer/seller, it sometimes makes it hard to know what's the truth.
Unfortunately, without actual proof, se's hands are somewhat tied when it comes to getting these people off of our server. Usually, you have a better shot at getting them off by reporting them when they mpk or whatever. I know in a lot of cases nothing is done or maybe a verbal warning. But as long as we don't stoop to their level and make everything worse and keep reporting them when they do crap like mpking, we may be able to at least ease the pain for the people there just to have fun.
Maybe my other post didn't phrase my thoughts well. I just get sick of seeing everyone at each other's throats over the same issue over and over. We complain about these people ruining our experience in game, then we end up fighting with other people in the same boat and it just makes the whole experience worse.
I have nothing wrong with people who don't spend millions upon millions on their equipment. As long as you try to keep your character respectable, I'm a happy camper. Not everyone has hours upon hours to dedicate to farming for the best. But that's just my point. Sometimes, no matter how flexible you are, you end up in a party with someone you don't like or is suspected, with no proof of doing something harmful to the server. To me, it's rather childish to leave a party because so and so is accused of buying gil when the rest of the party has been doing well.
Sometimes the witch hunts is what drives people to do these things. If you are constantly being accused of buying gil when you are busting your butt to farm, and your rep goes into the toilet, why not just turn to buying gil instead of wasting hourst to farm? Everyone already thinks you do anyway.
As for the sellers as long as there is a market, they are going to be in our world trying to advance in the game to make more money. They are going to get there with or without our help. I'm not saying it's ok to help them. But for people who do end up getting in an exp party with them and not wanting to leave because the rest of the party is good, I don't think we should crucify them either. Not to mention with all of the accusations flying around of who is and who isn't a buyer/seller, it sometimes makes it hard to know what's the truth.
Unfortunately, without actual proof, se's hands are somewhat tied when it comes to getting these people off of our server. Usually, you have a better shot at getting them off by reporting them when they mpk or whatever. I know in a lot of cases nothing is done or maybe a verbal warning. But as long as we don't stoop to their level and make everything worse and keep reporting them when they do crap like mpking, we may be able to at least ease the pain for the people there just to have fun.
Maybe my other post didn't phrase my thoughts well. I just get sick of seeing everyone at each other's throats over the same issue over and over. We complain about these people ruining our experience in game, then we end up fighting with other people in the same boat and it just makes the whole experience worse.
Straight from IGE, 20 million gil for $700 US. I'd like to think that SE isn't making hidden profit off IGE, but those prices make the hair on the back of my neck rise like a fratboy in a sorority mixer.
With all the money I've already poured into this game, it isn't justfifed to spend that kind of cash on virtual money that will only get me a couple of the "Players Top Equipment Picks" I would want for my current level (late 60's). The price I paid for the game itself wouldn't even bring me enough gil to afford the items I want ($50 for 1 million gil). It's pretty pathetic the amount people will pay just to own an item that would only have costed the monthly fee's and a weeks worth of effort (crafting/farming/camping/harvesting...) to get. Then again, they'd probably just sell it back to IGE when they decided to quit -_-
With all the money I've already poured into this game, it isn't justfifed to spend that kind of cash on virtual money that will only get me a couple of the "Players Top Equipment Picks" I would want for my current level (late 60's). The price I paid for the game itself wouldn't even bring me enough gil to afford the items I want ($50 for 1 million gil). It's pretty pathetic the amount people will pay just to own an item that would only have costed the monthly fee's and a weeks worth of effort (crafting/farming/camping/harvesting...) to get. Then again, they'd probably just sell it back to IGE when they decided to quit -_-
K Tiffie, i'm too lazy to write anything about this right now so i'll just say i agree with most of what you are saying.
i think the going rate for 1M is like 20 bucks or something. (I accidentally clicked on the advertisements on the mysterytour site)
I have my own theory about gil sellers. I think they are in cohoots with SE. But SE pays them for their services. They camp NMs to regulate items and to keep an eye on the economy. Meanwhile the items that they get, they sell it and pocket the money as a little something extra.
i think the going rate for 1M is like 20 bucks or something. (I accidentally clicked on the advertisements on the mysterytour site)
I have my own theory about gil sellers. I think they are in cohoots with SE. But SE pays them for their services. They camp NMs to regulate items and to keep an eye on the economy. Meanwhile the items that they get, they sell it and pocket the money as a little something extra.
Actually, you can buy a brand spanking new box of FFXI along with CoP for the same price as 1 million -_- Also, something I find isnulting is that IGE has an announcement on their FFXI homepage telling US not to monopolize items and mobs.
""Actually, you can buy a brand spanking new box of FFXI along with CoP for the same price as 1 million -_- Also, something I find isnulting is that IGE has an announcement on their FFXI homepage telling US not to monopolize items and mobs. "
Ige doesnt employ gil sellers, they are just middle men. In fact, I do believe that they dont buy alot from the chinese gil sellers but more from people that quit. I may be naive, but thats my take.
Ige doesnt employ gil sellers, they are just middle men. In fact, I do believe that they dont buy alot from the chinese gil sellers but more from people that quit. I may be naive, but thats my take.
They have to know that when real money is on the line people are going to be more greedy then normal with mobs with expensive drops. It's bad enough when real money isn't on the line. By buying gil from players to sell to others, they are just encouraging the practice. That statement is nothing more then a way for them to say see we aren't encouraging it. Actions speak louder then words. It's not like if one of the people who monopolize goes to them with a lot of gil that they are going to turn it down because of how they got it.
A few points to consider, and that may shed a little light (though I don't foresee any understanding) on things and why the chinese gil sellers are perhaps more agressive than others.
Facts:
Chinese GDP ( average annual income per person) $316/year
% of population unemployeed 10% ( 120 Million people)
Average income of state supported or unemployed rural workers - $77/year
Current price IGE will PAY for 2 Million Gil. $26
What this means is that a person who can sell 12 million gil is making $78. Or MORE than the government support paid to the unemployed. Even if these people are in a 'sweat shop' making $2 a day and working 10-12 hour days 7 days a week, they are earning nearly DOUBLE ($14 a week, 52 weeks =$728) the Average income of their countrymen. All for sitting in a room playing a game. Not working in a field, breaking their backs.
When you look at it from that angle, and you see these people camping, and then lengths they are willing to go to win that pull, remember, it's food on the table for them. You are combating people for whom this really is 'life or death' in some cases. You can't win against that. Losing Xp, or time, is notwhere near the motivation of losing food, clothing, health, etc, becuase you can't get another job.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying we should feel bad for them or trying to excuse it in any way. But I think when we all sit here and whine and ***** that we can't get the ultra uber +1 Geegolly item and how unfair it is that these people keep us from it, a little perspective is in order. I'm willing to bet some of these people wished they were sitting around doing this for fun, instead of existence.
Facts:
Chinese GDP ( average annual income per person) $316/year
% of population unemployeed 10% ( 120 Million people)
Average income of state supported or unemployed rural workers - $77/year
Current price IGE will PAY for 2 Million Gil. $26
What this means is that a person who can sell 12 million gil is making $78. Or MORE than the government support paid to the unemployed. Even if these people are in a 'sweat shop' making $2 a day and working 10-12 hour days 7 days a week, they are earning nearly DOUBLE ($14 a week, 52 weeks =$728) the Average income of their countrymen. All for sitting in a room playing a game. Not working in a field, breaking their backs.
When you look at it from that angle, and you see these people camping, and then lengths they are willing to go to win that pull, remember, it's food on the table for them. You are combating people for whom this really is 'life or death' in some cases. You can't win against that. Losing Xp, or time, is notwhere near the motivation of losing food, clothing, health, etc, becuase you can't get another job.
I'm not saying it's right, I'm not saying we should feel bad for them or trying to excuse it in any way. But I think when we all sit here and whine and ***** that we can't get the ultra uber +1 Geegolly item and how unfair it is that these people keep us from it, a little perspective is in order. I'm willing to bet some of these people wished they were sitting around doing this for fun, instead of existence.
But common sense should tell them that the more aggressive they are the more other players are going to try to get them off of the server. If they are off of the server, then their income is gone. If they wouldn't use unfair tactics and monopolize and generally ruin the game for others, my guess is it'd be like it is with most other games of this type and the legit players wouldn't be so focused on it. If they just blended in like any other player, chances are we wouldn't even know who they are so we wouldn't be so quick to try to get them off of the server.
Also, the more fustrating they make it for people to enjoy the game, the more people end up quitting, thus taking away their potential customers. No matter how hard or easy it is to obtain items or money in a game like this, there are always going to be people willing to take the easy way out and buy. The market is going to be there for them whether we like it or not. If they at least made an attempt to peacefully coexist with legit players the problem would't be nearly as bad.
Also, the more fustrating they make it for people to enjoy the game, the more people end up quitting, thus taking away their potential customers. No matter how hard or easy it is to obtain items or money in a game like this, there are always going to be people willing to take the easy way out and buy. The market is going to be there for them whether we like it or not. If they at least made an attempt to peacefully coexist with legit players the problem would't be nearly as bad.
I agree. it would seem to be common sense. BUT, drug dealers kill people, including their customers and hey, I don't see the number of addicts dropping with each death. It just keeps going up.
MMOs have a turnover of players, people come people go. So the new players, who haven't encountered these people and their tactics are going to buy, oblivious, and keep the money flowing. The older players will eventually leave. The people complaining aren't customers anyway, the people who are trying to drive them out certainly aren't and won't ever be, customers. So the loss to them is somewhat minimal when put in context.
Oddly, the only constant will be the gil sellers.
MMOs have a turnover of players, people come people go. So the new players, who haven't encountered these people and their tactics are going to buy, oblivious, and keep the money flowing. The older players will eventually leave. The people complaining aren't customers anyway, the people who are trying to drive them out certainly aren't and won't ever be, customers. So the loss to them is somewhat minimal when put in context.
Oddly, the only constant will be the gil sellers.
You definately have a point there. Every other game of this type has their currency sellers that have been there from day 1 and are still there as long as people are willing to buy.
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