What's Happened, Ragnarok?Follow

most people lvl 60+ are that way, and its rare to find someone who isnt , im a lvl 60 drg on gilgamesh and i help people all the time all they have to do is ask , but i make sure its where i know i will survive ;P , dieing at lvl 60 isnt fun :P

but if ya wanna help me hook me up with a WP to ragnarok :P
bigwillieg316@hotmail.com

It's not that us at level 60+ don't want to help, we have so much to do it isn't even funny. Farm, level, farm, level Missions, Rare/ex items, dkilling up.

Look at it this way for every 1 azzhat there are 10 nice people out there. I have met some very nasty azzhats lately, and I won't give names, and yes they were level 75.

But as I know Tif and I have personally soloed over 150 G-1's in the last 2 months ourselves. which require higher level help. Coffers too.

But asking for help with things like the rank 3 dragon, Kazham keys, Sub job items, etc. I know I made lots of friends doing the missions like that. To this day I am friends with them all. Two of them are in my set party now.

For those of you that Don't know Tif if by far one of the nicest people you will ever meet on the server, but don't abuse her..she has lots of stuff she needs to get done herself.

Just stick with it, I know the people that I have helped, now always answer my call for help when I need it, or are very nice and saying hey, I am busy atm but when I finish I'll help. Most of them even check up and see how I am doing with what I am doing.

Edited, Tue Apr 12 10:36:28 2005 by UNCTGTG

Unc, I actually am taking a week or two and not helping. It was a hard decision to make, but I want to get to level 72 so I can better help people. Being able to teleport will make a difference.

I don't even mind helping with things that don't require high level help. I've done parties in the dunes, met people without subs, and came back after the party broke on my main to get their skull or whatever subjob items they need.

I go on regular key runs and if I'm farming an area, I'll check before I start killing to see if anyone needs it.

Unc, I think you do way more G1 runs then I do. I know I've been doing mad af though for both friends and strangers. And I know you are one of the ones that are always out there helping. I think I've run into you more helping people then doing your own thing.

But I don't think that it's a lot of us don't want to help. We just don't always have the time. I've turned down quite a few requests for giving help the past few days which is when I came to the conclusion, I'm just not going to help for the next week or so and get my own stuff done. I've got to do that every few months, otherwise I'd still be stuck at a level where I wouldn't be of much help to anyone.

Tif makes me feel guilty now whaaaa ; ;

I asked her for help getting to top of delfuncks tower (I can't spell it. I give up) for rank 4 ; ;.. But i did try on my own! I can say I lost 2k exp trying lol...

I still feel guilty ; ;

Given that I personally know UNC and TIF are two of the most helpful people on the server (when they have the time, and it's amazing how often both actually MAKE time for others), I can't really add much to their comments. Beyond some basic observations.


namely I find the Unforgiven's comments actually run BOTH WAYS. From the point of those being asked as well as those doing the asking.

As a 65 RNG I can speak to one point many others might not. Helping YOU costs ME. Yeah it sounds cheap, and I don't mind helping when I can. But if you have 10 people that need a coffer and you want me to come and kill things for drops....that's not only asking for a ton of my time, but a rather large chunk of gil, even if I use cheap arrows. Try to have a little perspective on exactly what you are asking people to do. it amazes me the abuse I get when I say no, or that I can't at the moment.

I firmly believe there is an enormous difference between HELPING and DOING FOR. I will gladly help, but I will NOT DO FOR you. If you want my help, I'm in. But if you expect ME to know what you need to do, where you need to go, and how to get there, kill it, and get back. Then I'm not helping you, I'm doing it for you.

I also think there is something that happens when you pass 60 ( even 50 really). certain things just aren't practical. You need a dragon killed for Rank 3? It's a level 25 cap to start with, so why do you need a 45+ to 'help'? Especially when the odds are that most people post 50 aren't going to have any 25 gear left. Yet, you'd be amazed how many people throw a "High levels are arrogant" and worse when I point that fact out to them. I would pretty much have to come naked, with no weapons, and stand there. How is that helping? its simply not practical for a level 50+ to keep a stash of 25 gear 'just in case'.


And my favorite peeve of all, the mentality that because you managed to get to 60+ you are "EXPECTED" to help and lower levels are "ENTITLED" to the help. Give it a rest already. Help is given in kindness, and if you are going to be an azzhat about asking and throw out how I am "supposed" to help you, then you are going to be waiting a VERY long time for my help, or anyone else I know.

Sadly respect, kindness, and even just basic courtesies are rapidly vanishing from this server. What's more, I know the number of new players has slowed greatly, so most of those acting this way are actually higher levels in other jobs. So what gives?

And you don't even want me to start on the beggars who go ballistic when I offer some farming tips instead of a hand out.


Edited, Tue Apr 12 12:35:09 2005 by airamis

Wow, Unforgiven, way to motivate people into helping others! (sarcasm)... I especially liked this line "Stop being so judgemental of everyone" Isn't that what you're being right now? You're basically generalizing everyone on the server into being rude, selfish, ungrateful and not helpful.

I know that I've helped LOTS of people (NEVER charged $), with lots of things. Not just low-level people, because they're not the only ones that need help with stuff. People the same level or even higher need just as much help as low levels do.

Tiffie brings up a very good point, though. Newer players should not rely so heavily on high-level help. I'm not saying for them to NEVER ask for high-level help, but there are limits. Otherwise it turns into a 'leeching' situation. This does not help them to become better players. This just lets them coast along and gives them the sense that whenever they need something done, why put effort into it when you can just /shout for some highlevels to come and do the dirty work for you. There IS extra time that goes into doing things WITHOUT high-level help, because yeah, you need alliances and whatnot, but still - most of us put that time in too at one point. Yeah...it's great to take a high level into something so that you can sit back and not do anything while they solo it or whatever, but that should be the exception, not the rule.

I'm sorry to be so frank, i'm just not one to 'beat around the bush'....i hate generalizations, especially when i KNOW that there are plenty of people out there that DO help others on Ragnarok.

Yes, the system isn't perfect, but neither is society. So maybe as an exercise in Social Psychology we can look at the perceived lack of help as a parallel to our RL. Sometimes in RL when one method of doing something, or getting something accomplished doesn't work out for me, I move onto to another option or idea, whatever it takes to get the job done. As the saying goes, "It's what separates the men from the boys'.

In RL, I find that people that adopt negative attitudes and pity themselves, and focus on the problems, but not on the solutions, well...those people tend to not go very far in life. Again, i feel this is an adequate parallel to the game.

Tenel, don't feel bad. That wasn't the intention. I love helping people and I'm looking forward to opening myself back up for help again. I just want to take care of a few personal goals first.

But when I do, I would hope that people who I help aren't going to make me feel guilty or try to tell me I've got an attitude because of my level. It's just rather disturbing seeing a thread like this knowing I've received so much help in the game and have given so much help and knowing others who do nothing but give. It's like what we are doing doesn't seem to make a difference when one person doesn't get the help they need, then suddenly, none of us are willing.

Rank 5 is one of those ones I do regular runs for. Just because it's a pain in the butt to find the magecite if you don't know where you are going. I also do regular runs to get the orc drops that you need for it. The only thing I ask if I'm going to help anyone with rank 5 is that they have all of the legwork done that they can get done before hand. It's a pain and extremely time consuming to have to run people through the Jueno stuff. Obviously, there is a part of the legwork you can't do without help, since that requires killing 2 Orcs that you can't solo at 35. I don't mind escorting people to the magecite locations. I know if a friend of mine didn't do it for me, I would have never found them without hundreds of deaths.

Ok, so there is 2 things. Powders and oils if you can't sneak invis yourself and warp scrolls. I can probably do a rank 5 run next weekend if you'd like.

There is no reason to feel bad asking for help. This game is designed so not much can be done alone. It encourages interaction. Unfortunately, some people want others to do it for them instead of helping them. It's ok to do that every now and then for a friend, but if you do it too much for the same person, they don't enjoy the game nearly as much.

Its not bad helping others XD But ya the truth is: a lot of people abuse peoples help without giving a simple thank you. I used to help a lot more than I do now, but I don't as much due to the disrespect some people give with your help.
Anyone that offers help to others probably knows about this disrespect only too well. ^^;

I still help of course. Just not as much as I used to. And more so with friends... but occasionally I'll help a stranger. XD

So long story short: the problem isn't always the higher levels. Sometimes it is some of the lower levels showing disrespect / expecting too much to those that used to love to help everyone they could... ;x It goes both ways really.

I think people should try completing the activity or at the very least do some research into the activity they wish to accomplish.

I know the level 50-60 range becomes the slow grind known as the AF scavenger hunt. Alot of people pick up the coffer keys they require by XPing in the dungeon which is pretty fortunate. If you are unlucky, you may have to arrange a "skillup" party to try to get your coffer key.

I tried to solo my crawler's nest coffer key a few times, and took a dirt nap. Armed with more wisdom, I will either seek future help from some LS members or continue to level and come back and get my AF gloves.

I already have my Garlaige coffer key, now i just need to get behind banishing gate 3 and look around for the darn coffer.

I think players should turn to their linkshell for help before seeking outside help in my opinion. If help isn't available from within your linkshell, maybe try organizing an alliance of other people. Genkai2 is coming upon the horizon, I would love high level help for this quest, but if my linkshell and I can muster a full alliance of 55, we should be able to accomplish this quest without too much pain.

I think there is an increasing attitude of entitlement and a lack of appreciation from help seekers that are driving away fellow players. <--- not sure if this is related, but I have seen and heard of an increase of PL in many places, valkurm, qufim, garlaige, crawler's nest, boyd. tree ... just wanted to comment on this!!!

So true Mikietaru person >_> Back in my day... we had 0 highlevel help. Cause there were no highlevel NAs outside of importers... and they rarely offered to help the non-importers XD Some did, but I never got it at least.

It was a real adventure 1-75. Truly. Died many times. Never bugged me. Lost 17k xp in one fight once. Got up, laughed. Went and xped afterward.

'cause of it I still crave a new big challenge. Done a lot of amazing things cause I love a challenge in this game. ^_~

I should also mention: there is more to this game than xp. Far more. You'll be surprised if you go adventuring about and learn all aspects of it. ^_^

There Are (Were whe I was Playing) some good people on the Server who would help out when available.

Understand that you too should try to help when asked.
Understand that people do not Pay per Month to Repeat Quests for no Reward.
Most of All, When you ask for Help, Understand that people are not going to Drop Ship (Ie Leveling another Job when you Ask for Help) because you want to get something done for yourself.

This game can be quite the time Drainer, and when I played, I knew how much of a PITA getting help, settling up Crews, and helping Random people can be. In all honesty, the utter demand on time is mostly why I quit, as I don't have as much anymore >.<

In Summery, Thanks again to all who helped me out, and those random few I may have Helped w/ something ^.^

See you on 4/28 in Guildwars :-)

Mikie, I'm with you on the power leveling thing. Last time I was farming sheep in the dunes (I farm them there so I can, gee, get this, help out other parties if they need a raise or something) I went to give someone a raise and was then bombarded by tells from the party, not with thanks, but with hey stay and power level us. I don't think the person who I raised even thanked me.

I can't count how many deaths I had going through the dunes, how many home points I had to eat, my first time through. Everyone was learning, so we died, and died a lot.

I don't mind occassionaly pling a person past a certain tough point in their job. Usually a level or so. I've done it for a lot of friends who wanted to take thf up a little and couldn't get a party in the 13-15 range. I will not power level a party for the most part. I don't mind if I'm passing by a party that's struggling to hang out for a few fights and let them get reorganized. But I usually won't do it longer then that. The exception is with friends. If it's a party of all friends I will power level them, but only if it's not their first job. I've had people who I've said no to call me things like selfish and rude but in not so nice of words more times then I can count. To me, wanting to be power levelled seems more selfish and rude, since you are denying yourself and your party members the chance to really learn and perfect your job and it's going to effect future parties you are in.

Before thinking the worst of people who are saying no to helping or reluctant to help, look at the many reasons why we say no that have been posted by everyone in this thread.

And please remember that those who you are asking for help pay the same fee to play that you do as well. We don't always want to be doing things for other people. And I know there have been many weeks where all I did was log on, help people because they asked and logged off without once doing anything that I wanted or needed to do. We want to have some fun ourselves and try new things.