Anon, come out of hiding already, this is just childish. You want to run around and attempt to rate everyone down for expressing their opinions, but are afraid to express yours in your own name because of a rate down. Like ratings on this forum mean anything anyway.
Let's face it. Currency selling in these types of games are going to be around forever. Percie has a great point in saying the SE needs to control the gil in/out ration a little better to help the economy. Normal players need to stop gouging prices worse then the gil sellers do. I find it funny, almost everyone I know that has complained about gil sellers has gouged prices at one time or another. Not seeing the irony?
The point is you aren't going to get rid of gil sellers. Why most hate them is because of the tactics they use. Instead of letting us have our fun, they want to ***** with us, monopolize certain nms, and just generally be assgnomes. We find one that is actually cool to other players in a game where non gil selling players have trouble being nice to each other, and you want to freak out because someone decided to give him credit.
I've had so many good experiences with the LS crew it's not even funny. From random raises to them sharing Goobues in the Sanctuary while I was trying to farm trees to grow. Not once did they swipe a mob from me. But yet just the other day I was in the Sanctuary in mid cast on one when someone, a non gil seller walked by and voked it. Quite frankly, I'd rather deal with the LS people then some of the other non gil sellers on our server. At least he shows common courtesy.
The economy is going to be in the shape it is in with or without the gil sellers. Face it, everyday greed is the main reason for ******** it up. To dislike gil sellers for a problem that would exist with or without them is just silly. To dislike them for their tactics that make the game less fun seems reasonable.
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erm, just so you know, he/she (AnonymousRagnarok) cannot rate anyone down due to the lack of Scholar title, but have fun clicking the rate button regardless.
On topic though, i personally couldn't care at all how nice any particular gil seller is, fair enough it's surely better to have one that will offer a raise, but no matter how you dress them up, they are still the people who monopolise certain spawns in the game leaving the rest of us with far less options than we previously had... and that is undeniable.
Don't get me wrong though, i understand to them it's a business rather than a game, but to as good as praise a gilseller for giving a Raise2 is utter crap. At the end of the day it IS these people who slowly grind this game down, and the only people worse than the sellers are the continuous buyers, and that is reflected by a stupidly over inflated economy compared to a year ago.
But sure thing, if you are happy to pay 500k+ for an emporer hairpin then that's fine, keep on high fiving the gil sellers for their contribution to the community via Raise 2's and disregard the rest of what they do.
On topic though, i personally couldn't care at all how nice any particular gil seller is, fair enough it's surely better to have one that will offer a raise, but no matter how you dress them up, they are still the people who monopolise certain spawns in the game leaving the rest of us with far less options than we previously had... and that is undeniable.
Don't get me wrong though, i understand to them it's a business rather than a game, but to as good as praise a gilseller for giving a Raise2 is utter crap. At the end of the day it IS these people who slowly grind this game down, and the only people worse than the sellers are the continuous buyers, and that is reflected by a stupidly over inflated economy compared to a year ago.
But sure thing, if you are happy to pay 500k+ for an emporer hairpin then that's fine, keep on high fiving the gil sellers for their contribution to the community via Raise 2's and disregard the rest of what they do.
16 posts
Look... let's stop pretending this forum is about me and my anonymity. This forum has the displeasure of being a gilseller support forum. Focus on the main issue here people. It doesn't matter if the Ls crew is "better" than the other gilsellers. They are gilsellers and should be banned or something. That's all there is too it.
Now as far as rating people down I can do that just fine thanks. Look I rated you down right? Looks like I have a main account and an anonymous account... Oh well. Liquinas on the other hand may have a little bit of a problem. He is nowhere near being able to rate anyone up or down and I have a feeling he will never be able to do that.
I am using an anonymous account because only on Allakhazam will people rate you down for hating gilsellers and gilseller supporters. If you guys don't think it's fawking retarded that people get rated down for hating gilsellers than you should roast and go play WoW or something. If you are not helping to solve the problem you are only adding to it.
Now as far as rating people down I can do that just fine thanks. Look I rated you down right? Looks like I have a main account and an anonymous account... Oh well. Liquinas on the other hand may have a little bit of a problem. He is nowhere near being able to rate anyone up or down and I have a feeling he will never be able to do that.
I am using an anonymous account because only on Allakhazam will people rate you down for hating gilsellers and gilseller supporters. If you guys don't think it's fawking retarded that people get rated down for hating gilsellers than you should roast and go play WoW or something. If you are not helping to solve the problem you are only adding to it.
Well i can say for sure that you are either..
darnimsexy, Heziki, Iasthai, narusegwa, NekoJill (according to the recent visitor list for this forum anyway)
But regardless, i don't care for who you are, but being scared of losing your karma rating is extremely sad.
and i would love you to point out the part of my post that supported gilsellers?, If/when you cant then explain the need for my rate down, since rate downs for opinions is obviously something you yourself hide from.
Edited, Wed Mar 23 12:01:19 2005 by Repsh
darnimsexy, Heziki, Iasthai, narusegwa, NekoJill (according to the recent visitor list for this forum anyway)
But regardless, i don't care for who you are, but being scared of losing your karma rating is extremely sad.
and i would love you to point out the part of my post that supported gilsellers?, If/when you cant then explain the need for my rate down, since rate downs for opinions is obviously something you yourself hide from.
Edited, Wed Mar 23 12:01:19 2005 by Repsh
Do you really think the cost of these items will go down if there were no gil sellers? Look at erase. It's actually a pretty common drop in a lot of bcnms and there is no reason it should cost the 300-400k it does. And look at who's selling it. Usually not gil sellers. Normally everyday people looking to make a quick buck.
Nobody is denying that these guys don't hurt the game. But denying that everyday players are also hurting it is just being niave.
And we will stop focusing on your hiding behind a fake name when you actually grow a pair and show yourself. It's hard to take someone's opinion's seriously when they don't care enough to back it up with their main account. Again, ratings don't matter. People will rate you down on here for disagreeing with them. I know personally whether I agree with you or not, if you voice your opinion in a mature manner (and hiding behind a false name not so mature) I wouldn't rate you down. I could care less if I'm rated down for voicing opinions that others may or may not agree with. I know in game I try to make the server a better community by being outgoing and helping people whether I know them or not. I don't try to ***** other players over. I've helped clear nm placeholders while leaving the nm for the original person in the location to claim, only to have someone come by and swipe a nm from me and a friend after we spent 2 hours clearing placeholders. And again, this person was not a gil seller.
Human greed is what hurts the game. Whether that greed be from a gil seller or not it does the same damage. Someone actually helping you makes you enjoy the game a little more. Again, whether it be from a gil seller or not, you still get the same happiness out of the kindness of someone else.
This isn't a support the gil sellers thread. And I will never endorse the buying or selling of gil. But I'm also not niave enough to think that because I don't endorse it means it's going to go away. And I'm also not niave enough to believe if it does go away all the nm monopolizing and auction house price jacking is going to stop. Normal every day players will be just as glad to take those spots.
And my original post never supported gil sellers either. But again, because you disagreed with my opinions, you felt the need to log onto the account you are so trying to protect to rate down. I sort of feel like you are just trying to get under everyone's skin anyway. You obviously have no faith in what you are saying otherwise you would say it under your real name. It's also clear from the way you try to twist what everyone says to meet what your own agenda that you claim everyone is supporting gil sellers. No we don't support them, we just learned how to not let them destroy our good time because we know we can't make them go away.
Nobody is denying that these guys don't hurt the game. But denying that everyday players are also hurting it is just being niave.
And we will stop focusing on your hiding behind a fake name when you actually grow a pair and show yourself. It's hard to take someone's opinion's seriously when they don't care enough to back it up with their main account. Again, ratings don't matter. People will rate you down on here for disagreeing with them. I know personally whether I agree with you or not, if you voice your opinion in a mature manner (and hiding behind a false name not so mature) I wouldn't rate you down. I could care less if I'm rated down for voicing opinions that others may or may not agree with. I know in game I try to make the server a better community by being outgoing and helping people whether I know them or not. I don't try to ***** other players over. I've helped clear nm placeholders while leaving the nm for the original person in the location to claim, only to have someone come by and swipe a nm from me and a friend after we spent 2 hours clearing placeholders. And again, this person was not a gil seller.
Human greed is what hurts the game. Whether that greed be from a gil seller or not it does the same damage. Someone actually helping you makes you enjoy the game a little more. Again, whether it be from a gil seller or not, you still get the same happiness out of the kindness of someone else.
This isn't a support the gil sellers thread. And I will never endorse the buying or selling of gil. But I'm also not niave enough to think that because I don't endorse it means it's going to go away. And I'm also not niave enough to believe if it does go away all the nm monopolizing and auction house price jacking is going to stop. Normal every day players will be just as glad to take those spots.
And my original post never supported gil sellers either. But again, because you disagreed with my opinions, you felt the need to log onto the account you are so trying to protect to rate down. I sort of feel like you are just trying to get under everyone's skin anyway. You obviously have no faith in what you are saying otherwise you would say it under your real name. It's also clear from the way you try to twist what everyone says to meet what your own agenda that you claim everyone is supporting gil sellers. No we don't support them, we just learned how to not let them destroy our good time because we know we can't make them go away.
Now that the prices are set, and the average pocket cash of any one player is higher, no i dont expect prices to drop if a server lost its sellers overnight, however i do believe that without any gilsellers in the first place, the prices would have never been set so high in the first place. Although an item such as erase would never lose its value as like you said, its a bcnm drop and therefore costs seals to participate and is in a sense non farmable consistently.
With the gilsellers arrival, everyone has access to very fast, very cheap gil, more so than many players could be bothered to farm, and as a result, your average level 30 in their first job could quite easily own 3 million gil at the cost of a few clicks on the internet, and that amount of money coming into the economy and so easily obtained at any level is crazy.
Think about it, leaping boots and emp hairpin for example used to be luxury items, worn by either very lucky campers or people with higher level jobs, nowadays it seems more like everyone and their dog has these items, and the gil has to come from somewhere.
And so yes, i hold gilsellers highly responsible for the mess, but i also hold gil buyers just as responsible.
With the gilsellers arrival, everyone has access to very fast, very cheap gil, more so than many players could be bothered to farm, and as a result, your average level 30 in their first job could quite easily own 3 million gil at the cost of a few clicks on the internet, and that amount of money coming into the economy and so easily obtained at any level is crazy.
Think about it, leaping boots and emp hairpin for example used to be luxury items, worn by either very lucky campers or people with higher level jobs, nowadays it seems more like everyone and their dog has these items, and the gil has to come from somewhere.
And so yes, i hold gilsellers highly responsible for the mess, but i also hold gil buyers just as responsible.
I totally agree that they played a part in it. But as you stated, so did the buyers. It's just human nature. And as long as these types of games have been around, there have been people using them to turn a buck in real life because there are always those who will want to take the shortcut with their hobbies.
It's actually quite sad that people feel the need to pay real money for make believe items because of some kind of strange status they feel like it brings them.
I will also give you that erase is a valuable spell because of the seals that have to be farmed, but the drop is a lot more common then those who do frequent bcnm runs will have you believe. It is in no way worth the 300-400k any more then the overpriced hairpins and such are worth what they are bringing in. But there are people who do these runs and know that there are players who are getting this unlimited amount of gil to spend by spending real money and are asking for higher prices at the ah.
The truth is, there are just too many layers to why the game's economy is a cluster, much like in real life. And you can't hold any one group solely accountable for it. So yeah, while the gil sellers have contributed to the problems with our in game economy, I still think they bring more problems with their unfriendly tactics. When you've got groups of them purposely going out of their way to make everyone's life a little harder, to me that's more damaging to the game then a price being inflated at the ah. But again, they aren't the only group that does this. I've ran into many players who are just as bad, if not worse then the gil sellers in these ways. I'd like to believe that if the gil sellers weren't around, more of these people would stop acting like that. And I'd like to believe that eventually SE can get a grasp on the problem and take care of it. But the realistic side of me leans towards the not happening, which is why I try, much like in real life, to focus on the good and enjoy the world around me.
It's actually quite sad that people feel the need to pay real money for make believe items because of some kind of strange status they feel like it brings them.
I will also give you that erase is a valuable spell because of the seals that have to be farmed, but the drop is a lot more common then those who do frequent bcnm runs will have you believe. It is in no way worth the 300-400k any more then the overpriced hairpins and such are worth what they are bringing in. But there are people who do these runs and know that there are players who are getting this unlimited amount of gil to spend by spending real money and are asking for higher prices at the ah.
The truth is, there are just too many layers to why the game's economy is a cluster, much like in real life. And you can't hold any one group solely accountable for it. So yeah, while the gil sellers have contributed to the problems with our in game economy, I still think they bring more problems with their unfriendly tactics. When you've got groups of them purposely going out of their way to make everyone's life a little harder, to me that's more damaging to the game then a price being inflated at the ah. But again, they aren't the only group that does this. I've ran into many players who are just as bad, if not worse then the gil sellers in these ways. I'd like to believe that if the gil sellers weren't around, more of these people would stop acting like that. And I'd like to believe that eventually SE can get a grasp on the problem and take care of it. But the realistic side of me leans towards the not happening, which is why I try, much like in real life, to focus on the good and enjoy the world around me.
16 posts
Repsh: Please stay silent. Despite your attempts to figure out who I am you are wrong. I didn't rate you down for what you said about gilsellers. We seem to be on the same page pretty much as far as that goes. It looks like you have come pretty close to quoting me in some of your statements actually. No, I am much more silly about my rate downs, I only rated you down to show you I could. Either way I will rate you up on these other posts to make up for it.
Tiffie: I never rated you down... Sorry. People are just running around rating people up that support gilsellers and rating people down that are against them. That's just what this thread is. As far as having no faith in what I'm saying... that is ridiculous. I hate gilsellers. How can I not have faith in that. When did I say that gilsellers are the cause of our economy? Never? They may overcamp things like Ochiudo's Kote which used to be like 90k and raise it to over a million because drop is damn hard to get but that's not just them. They only overcamp. I love our ecomony. I am greedy I guess because if something is selling for 500k I will not undercut to 200k just to make people happy. Or would that make people mad... I love to kill NM's and sell loot cause I get a fortune. In fact I completely agree with you on most points. Do me a favor and stop being retarded okay? Maybe that's why you are getting rated down.
TheMiracle: Damn dude... what can I say about you? You've done so well making yourself look like an idiot that I will just be quiet about it.
For the record: The reason I hate gilsellers is because I work hard for my money and other people buy gil. I guess it's that simple.
Anyways... I still say there is no such thing as a good gilseller. If you think I'm wrong please tell us why. I promise if someone can put a "good" reason up here I will tell you who I am. Until that day please expect me to post anonymously. Now please stop the focus on who I am. This thread is about how good the gilsellers are... remember?
Tiffie: I never rated you down... Sorry. People are just running around rating people up that support gilsellers and rating people down that are against them. That's just what this thread is. As far as having no faith in what I'm saying... that is ridiculous. I hate gilsellers. How can I not have faith in that. When did I say that gilsellers are the cause of our economy? Never? They may overcamp things like Ochiudo's Kote which used to be like 90k and raise it to over a million because drop is damn hard to get but that's not just them. They only overcamp. I love our ecomony. I am greedy I guess because if something is selling for 500k I will not undercut to 200k just to make people happy. Or would that make people mad... I love to kill NM's and sell loot cause I get a fortune. In fact I completely agree with you on most points. Do me a favor and stop being retarded okay? Maybe that's why you are getting rated down.
TheMiracle: Damn dude... what can I say about you? You've done so well making yourself look like an idiot that I will just be quiet about it.
For the record: The reason I hate gilsellers is because I work hard for my money and other people buy gil. I guess it's that simple.
Anyways... I still say there is no such thing as a good gilseller. If you think I'm wrong please tell us why. I promise if someone can put a "good" reason up here I will tell you who I am. Until that day please expect me to post anonymously. Now please stop the focus on who I am. This thread is about how good the gilsellers are... remember?
I totally agree with you in most respects, and like you say, the shortcut option is there and by now it is obvious that many people have walked that path.
And again, i agree that as in any economy there is a number of factors that can contribute to the messy state that it is in, and that's why as far as i am aware i never comitted myself to blaming just one group solely for it. Gilsellers and buyers alike are as equal to the blame as each other.
Erase i will agree to disagree with you on, as in my opinion although the price is high on the spell, the fact that you have to farm the seals in order to chance a drop makes the supply of them more limited than anything farmed from an NM. Without seals you have no scroll, not the same for a timed/lottery nm. But certainly agreed that it sells for a greedy price.
Anyway, i will leave this thread as it is for now, got the feeling i have picked up a camper for myself along the way and really cant be bothered with it.
Edit: Post was in reply to Tiffie
Edited, Wed Mar 23 14:31:41 2005 by Repsh
And again, i agree that as in any economy there is a number of factors that can contribute to the messy state that it is in, and that's why as far as i am aware i never comitted myself to blaming just one group solely for it. Gilsellers and buyers alike are as equal to the blame as each other.
Erase i will agree to disagree with you on, as in my opinion although the price is high on the spell, the fact that you have to farm the seals in order to chance a drop makes the supply of them more limited than anything farmed from an NM. Without seals you have no scroll, not the same for a timed/lottery nm. But certainly agreed that it sells for a greedy price.
Anyway, i will leave this thread as it is for now, got the feeling i have picked up a camper for myself along the way and really cant be bothered with it.
Edit: Post was in reply to Tiffie
Edited, Wed Mar 23 14:31:41 2005 by Repsh
Anyon, it's not that I have anything against you or what you are saying. In fact, I think almost everyone agrees that these guys pretty much are a pain to deal with in game. But it is hard to take someone seriously in their opinions, if they don't want to be known. Maybe it comes from working in news, but when I see an anonymous source I'm thinking someone grabbed onto a small fact and twisted it into something bigger to make something more out of it then it is. That's why they don't want people to know who they are. And in news, that was the case 99% of the time. So yeah, when someone comes on here and hides under a new name trying to be anon, I kind of take what they say with the same grain of salt I take the news' anonymous sources. Sorry. Nothing against you in particular, it's just I've learned from experience people tend to blow things up into something bigger when they don't have to stand behind what they say.
Honestly, I don't care about the rate downs, no matter who did them or what. I find the whole karma system on any forum a joke. They are pretty much popularity contests and aren't really worth a second thought.
And no, I don't find you greedy for not undercutting by 200k on items. But while you and most of the others will stay within the established price, there are always going to be the ones that see hey mine is going to be the only one up for sale and jack it up over the established price, thus making a new established price. I've come into some good drops myself. Usually from bcnm runs and such. And I try to be careful to not jack the price up when selling it. But for all of us that stick with that, there are always going to be the ones who jack up prices. I've been watching vermy cloak prices for months now and you can watch how the prices slowly rise because of there was a shortage on auction at one time and the person selling tried to get more then normal for it. If one person can get the higher price, the person following them is only going to do the same.
Rep, I'm all for people getting good gil from hard work of farming seals and then completing these sometimes ungodly bcnms. I just think that there is a way for them to make a good profit without hiking the prices to something ridiculous. WHM is often a first job for people. What person do you know had 300-400k on their first job at level 32? Of course, maybe erase was a bad example. A lot of bcnm items are beyond gouged. I've done enough and gotten enough of good drops to know that it isn't easy and that I do want enough of gil out of it to make it worth my time. But I'm not going to go to the ah and bump up my asking price when the item is already bringing in a large sum.
Honestly, I don't care about the rate downs, no matter who did them or what. I find the whole karma system on any forum a joke. They are pretty much popularity contests and aren't really worth a second thought.
And no, I don't find you greedy for not undercutting by 200k on items. But while you and most of the others will stay within the established price, there are always going to be the ones that see hey mine is going to be the only one up for sale and jack it up over the established price, thus making a new established price. I've come into some good drops myself. Usually from bcnm runs and such. And I try to be careful to not jack the price up when selling it. But for all of us that stick with that, there are always going to be the ones who jack up prices. I've been watching vermy cloak prices for months now and you can watch how the prices slowly rise because of there was a shortage on auction at one time and the person selling tried to get more then normal for it. If one person can get the higher price, the person following them is only going to do the same.
Rep, I'm all for people getting good gil from hard work of farming seals and then completing these sometimes ungodly bcnms. I just think that there is a way for them to make a good profit without hiking the prices to something ridiculous. WHM is often a first job for people. What person do you know had 300-400k on their first job at level 32? Of course, maybe erase was a bad example. A lot of bcnm items are beyond gouged. I've done enough and gotten enough of good drops to know that it isn't easy and that I do want enough of gil out of it to make it worth my time. But I'm not going to go to the ah and bump up my asking price when the item is already bringing in a large sum.
Tif added me to her friends list, does that make her a gil seller liker? and therefor deserving of a rate down?
I don't really understand wth is going on, but it seems like someone went on a rate-down spree. As such, I have properly rated back up everyone who was improperly rated down. :)
EDIT: Typos
Edited, Wed Mar 23 23:47:22 2005 by Vrtra
EDIT: Typos
Edited, Wed Mar 23 23:47:22 2005 by Vrtra
The issue to me is not the buying and selling of gil, and whether that's morally wrong or not. To be honest, if every melee had 2 sniper rings at Lv40, experience points would be that much better. If every WHM had Erase at Lv32, it would be that much better. Yes, it's a bit aggravating to see someone walking around in tip-top gears when you know they put zero effort into acquiring them, but that's really neither here nor there. Deal with it, I guess, because that's a personal thing, and a moral judgement.
The problem with gilsellers is monopolization. The Ls-gang monopolizes Amemit. They are there 24/7 and it is extremely difficult to claim a spawn. Parispring and whoever else monopolize the Phantom Worm. They are there 24/7. It is almost impossible to get a claim, and in the past, they would MPK you if you did. Ochiudo's kote: monopolized (for the most part). Archer rings: monopolized. Fuma kyahan: monopolized. All the beastmen-stronghold items (Beadeaux, Davoi, Oztroja): monopolized. It is nearly impossible to get these items oneself; that is the problem. If you want one of these things, you pretty much have to pay a gilseller, unless you get quite lucky on a claim/drop. And many of these items have an extremely rare drop rate to begin with. True, some things like Ochi kote were improved, now that the mobs can spawn anywhere in the room, but gilsellers still dominate them. Don't believe me? Look at the auction house.
Something like Erase is entirely different. Why? Because anyone can go do a BCNM40. You're not guaranteed the drop, no, but no one can stop you from doing it. No one can rush in and open the Armory Crate before you do. Short of having a sketchy party member rip you off (I always do BCs with linkshell members anyhow), you're guaranteed to get whatever's in there. So you can 1) pay 300-500k for Erase, or 2) go BCNM for it. Tell me the same is true of amemet skin.
All the gilselling crews are attaining higher levels, and leveling more HNM-geared jobs. They all have been fighting HNMs too. Pasco, Nozokimi, Qinlong, they all had old-school HNM titles today. Getting the claim is one thing, and it sucks, but they also have no qualms either about stealing them from legitimate players. Why would they care about their rep? They're gilsellers! Everyone knows it. They don't have a reputation to protect for the future. If NMs are "fair game" according to GMs when the name is in yellow, what's to stop them from stealing HNMs? You can't even MPK them on Roc or Simurgh. These NMs are not terribly easy to lose claim on, but still, it happens, and claim-stealing has been reported already. Sure it'll be a while before this happens, but imagine them stealing King Behemoth. Why wouldn't they if they could?
Now consider the ultimate worst-case scenario: Gilseller Apocalypse Tu'lia. All gilsellers have been camping HNMs for months. They are all Lv75. They have the best equipment and abjuration gears. They even have some idea how to defeat difficult NMs. They camp 1 trigger for each god. A trigger squad 24/7 on Aura Statues to camp Ullikimi. A trigger squad 24/7 on Faust. A trigger squad 24/7 on Mother Globe. Sure, you can go up there and fight them for it. You and twenty other linkshells. And maybe you'll win it, maybe you won't. And pretty soon, it becomes such a pain, that really you either pay them for trigger items, or forget it. It's not worth the time. Or maybe they don't even bother. Maybe they just sit up with 1 squad on each island, and attempt to steal the actual gods from other LS who have gotten the trigger items themselves. There is no way to get Byakko Haidate other than defeating Byakko. There is no way to get Crimson hands other than defeating Seiryu. There is no way to get Genbu's shield other than defeating Genbu. Eventually, if unchecked, these items will be monopolized too. The fact that it is done so by people who sell the non-rare/ex items for RMT only makes it more insulting.
Xenger's thread opened my eyes to the fact that this is already in motion, and it will likely only get worse until the instances mentioned above become reality. Maybe GMs will step in and do something about it. Maybe there's something in the ToS (with which I'm not terribly familiar) that empowers them to do so, but I'm not sure.
As far as Ls and his gang are concerned, they are nice maybe. They are courteous. They raise you and D2 you and all other kinds of things in the hope you will turn a blind eye to what they are actually doing: monopolizing items and making them impossible for the players themselves to acquire. That inaccessability only exacerbates the situation of gilbuying. The fact that they are friendly and "play by the rules" does not excuse the fact that they are simultanously ruining the game behind the scenes. It won't be behind the scenese for long though. Soon enough it will be impossible to ignore.
EDIT: Also wanted to add, the difference between gilseller monopolization and player NM hunting is that very, very few players completely monopolize and item for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for months on end. Yes, it may be frustrating to see that same Emperor hairpin camper in the dunes for 6 or 8 hours one day, but that's about the longest real players usually have the patience to go. Most legitimate characters--even if they camp a marathon session like this--will not be there 24/7, or continue for many, many months. As we all know, the gilseller crews operate the other way. So no matter what time you are there, no matter what day, whether you're NA or Euro or Japanese, the same people will be there monopolizing claims and making it impractical for you to get one yourself.
Edited, Thu Mar 24 13:06:43 2005 by Mystoval
The problem with gilsellers is monopolization. The Ls-gang monopolizes Amemit. They are there 24/7 and it is extremely difficult to claim a spawn. Parispring and whoever else monopolize the Phantom Worm. They are there 24/7. It is almost impossible to get a claim, and in the past, they would MPK you if you did. Ochiudo's kote: monopolized (for the most part). Archer rings: monopolized. Fuma kyahan: monopolized. All the beastmen-stronghold items (Beadeaux, Davoi, Oztroja): monopolized. It is nearly impossible to get these items oneself; that is the problem. If you want one of these things, you pretty much have to pay a gilseller, unless you get quite lucky on a claim/drop. And many of these items have an extremely rare drop rate to begin with. True, some things like Ochi kote were improved, now that the mobs can spawn anywhere in the room, but gilsellers still dominate them. Don't believe me? Look at the auction house.
Something like Erase is entirely different. Why? Because anyone can go do a BCNM40. You're not guaranteed the drop, no, but no one can stop you from doing it. No one can rush in and open the Armory Crate before you do. Short of having a sketchy party member rip you off (I always do BCs with linkshell members anyhow), you're guaranteed to get whatever's in there. So you can 1) pay 300-500k for Erase, or 2) go BCNM for it. Tell me the same is true of amemet skin.
All the gilselling crews are attaining higher levels, and leveling more HNM-geared jobs. They all have been fighting HNMs too. Pasco, Nozokimi, Qinlong, they all had old-school HNM titles today. Getting the claim is one thing, and it sucks, but they also have no qualms either about stealing them from legitimate players. Why would they care about their rep? They're gilsellers! Everyone knows it. They don't have a reputation to protect for the future. If NMs are "fair game" according to GMs when the name is in yellow, what's to stop them from stealing HNMs? You can't even MPK them on Roc or Simurgh. These NMs are not terribly easy to lose claim on, but still, it happens, and claim-stealing has been reported already. Sure it'll be a while before this happens, but imagine them stealing King Behemoth. Why wouldn't they if they could?
Now consider the ultimate worst-case scenario: Gilseller Apocalypse Tu'lia. All gilsellers have been camping HNMs for months. They are all Lv75. They have the best equipment and abjuration gears. They even have some idea how to defeat difficult NMs. They camp 1 trigger for each god. A trigger squad 24/7 on Aura Statues to camp Ullikimi. A trigger squad 24/7 on Faust. A trigger squad 24/7 on Mother Globe. Sure, you can go up there and fight them for it. You and twenty other linkshells. And maybe you'll win it, maybe you won't. And pretty soon, it becomes such a pain, that really you either pay them for trigger items, or forget it. It's not worth the time. Or maybe they don't even bother. Maybe they just sit up with 1 squad on each island, and attempt to steal the actual gods from other LS who have gotten the trigger items themselves. There is no way to get Byakko Haidate other than defeating Byakko. There is no way to get Crimson hands other than defeating Seiryu. There is no way to get Genbu's shield other than defeating Genbu. Eventually, if unchecked, these items will be monopolized too. The fact that it is done so by people who sell the non-rare/ex items for RMT only makes it more insulting.
Xenger's thread opened my eyes to the fact that this is already in motion, and it will likely only get worse until the instances mentioned above become reality. Maybe GMs will step in and do something about it. Maybe there's something in the ToS (with which I'm not terribly familiar) that empowers them to do so, but I'm not sure.
As far as Ls and his gang are concerned, they are nice maybe. They are courteous. They raise you and D2 you and all other kinds of things in the hope you will turn a blind eye to what they are actually doing: monopolizing items and making them impossible for the players themselves to acquire. That inaccessability only exacerbates the situation of gilbuying. The fact that they are friendly and "play by the rules" does not excuse the fact that they are simultanously ruining the game behind the scenes. It won't be behind the scenese for long though. Soon enough it will be impossible to ignore.
EDIT: Also wanted to add, the difference between gilseller monopolization and player NM hunting is that very, very few players completely monopolize and item for 24 hours a day, 7 days a week, for months on end. Yes, it may be frustrating to see that same Emperor hairpin camper in the dunes for 6 or 8 hours one day, but that's about the longest real players usually have the patience to go. Most legitimate characters--even if they camp a marathon session like this--will not be there 24/7, or continue for many, many months. As we all know, the gilseller crews operate the other way. So no matter what time you are there, no matter what day, whether you're NA or Euro or Japanese, the same people will be there monopolizing claims and making it impractical for you to get one yourself.
Edited, Thu Mar 24 13:06:43 2005 by Mystoval
Very well said Myst. I think what a lot of the issue is though is there are so many of these groups doing it. And most aren't courteous. Do I turn a blind eye to what they are doing because they are nice to me? No. But I do know I'm going to appreciate it when anyone is courteous to me or gives me a hand. It's just in my nature to not be hateful to someone who shows me respect. It doesn't mean I like what they are doing and it doesn't mean if they were to do something in front of me that would warrant a call to a gm I wouldn't do that either. I would. But they haven't, so I haven't.
The monopolization of the items is a big issue. But it's up to SE to do something about that. Most we can do is put even more pressure on SE to make that situation right. But anything short of cancelling the account, I doubt is going to get much attention.
When it comes down to it, the real issue isn't with the gil sellers. It's more or less with SE for not enforcing the rules and for not trying to make things right. They've stated the monopolization of items is against the rules, and all they would have to do is have gms check these spots on a somewhat regular basis to see what is going on. They don't.
But I would imagine with all of the servers and all of the accounts to manage, the problem is a bit overwhelming for them to deal with as well. I just hold onto the faith that they will make small steps to make the situation right with each passing update. The last few have been a step in the right direction. I would imagine that it takes time to implement fixes once they've been decided upon. So I'm doing my best to be patient and enjoy the good things in the game while trying to not let the bad get to me. Because in the end, I don't need these high end items to do my job or do my job well. And I don't need these high end items to enjoy the game. Would I like to have some of them? Of course. But if it's being monopolized, I'm not willing to pay the gouged price to get it.
The monopolization of the items is a big issue. But it's up to SE to do something about that. Most we can do is put even more pressure on SE to make that situation right. But anything short of cancelling the account, I doubt is going to get much attention.
When it comes down to it, the real issue isn't with the gil sellers. It's more or less with SE for not enforcing the rules and for not trying to make things right. They've stated the monopolization of items is against the rules, and all they would have to do is have gms check these spots on a somewhat regular basis to see what is going on. They don't.
But I would imagine with all of the servers and all of the accounts to manage, the problem is a bit overwhelming for them to deal with as well. I just hold onto the faith that they will make small steps to make the situation right with each passing update. The last few have been a step in the right direction. I would imagine that it takes time to implement fixes once they've been decided upon. So I'm doing my best to be patient and enjoy the good things in the game while trying to not let the bad get to me. Because in the end, I don't need these high end items to do my job or do my job well. And I don't need these high end items to enjoy the game. Would I like to have some of them? Of course. But if it's being monopolized, I'm not willing to pay the gouged price to get it.
A gil seller is a gil seller regardless of actions. Now, I will agree with most people here and say that the LS group seem to be the less troublesome Gil Selling group on our Server. Does that make them any better than any of the others? Not in my opinion.
Look at the story of Robin Hood. Stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Did that make him any better than a thief? Nope. Did it make his title of thief look less obvious in most peoples eyes? Yep.
Take an example of a rapist. Does it make a rapist a better person if after said action, he takes his victim to the hospital? Nope. Does it make him a more self conscience rapist if he decides not to go after people younger than 18? Nope. A criminal is a criminal no matter which way to slice or dice into their motives. A gill seller is a gil seller no matter how helpful, resourceful or "honest" they are.
Now, is it completely the gil sellers fault that the economy is the way it is? Not in the slightest.
Take away EVERY single gil seller in this server and what will you have? People will start to monopolize the NM's, jacking up prices and attempting to control the economy. Sadly, the only reason why the prices have been jacked to an EVEN higher rate is because of the Gil Sellers and their usual set prices for items.
Does this mean the gil sellers are good? Not at all. But honestly, they are the lesser of two evils.
As far as AnonymousRagnarok goes, doesn't bother me if he decides to post that way. If he wants to remain anonymous, let him, it's his right. It's better than sitting on the sidelines and not expressing your word. What's the point of free speach if you never exercise it, anonymous or not?
Look at the story of Robin Hood. Stole from the rich and gave to the poor. Did that make him any better than a thief? Nope. Did it make his title of thief look less obvious in most peoples eyes? Yep.
Take an example of a rapist. Does it make a rapist a better person if after said action, he takes his victim to the hospital? Nope. Does it make him a more self conscience rapist if he decides not to go after people younger than 18? Nope. A criminal is a criminal no matter which way to slice or dice into their motives. A gill seller is a gil seller no matter how helpful, resourceful or "honest" they are.
Now, is it completely the gil sellers fault that the economy is the way it is? Not in the slightest.
Take away EVERY single gil seller in this server and what will you have? People will start to monopolize the NM's, jacking up prices and attempting to control the economy. Sadly, the only reason why the prices have been jacked to an EVEN higher rate is because of the Gil Sellers and their usual set prices for items.
Does this mean the gil sellers are good? Not at all. But honestly, they are the lesser of two evils.
As far as AnonymousRagnarok goes, doesn't bother me if he decides to post that way. If he wants to remain anonymous, let him, it's his right. It's better than sitting on the sidelines and not expressing your word. What's the point of free speach if you never exercise it, anonymous or not?
Quote:
darnimsexy, Heziki, Iasthai, narusegwa, NekoJill (according to the recent visitor list for this forum anyway)
I am not the poster of this thread its nothing but a flame war and I just posted to clear my name -_- anyone that knows me knows I would have nothing to do with this garbage. good day to you sir
just to clarify thats not nekojill. believe me neko wud have the balls to post his name on an opinion... and not post it in such a crude manner might i add.
Hey it's not me either :P
I just look to see if anyone has posted in my threads :P
I just look to see if anyone has posted in my threads :P
The Ls guy thinks im a jp gil seller >.>
12 posts
Well said mystoval
And can people please stop saying "the LS guy"? When a group of 5 people has been in Buburimu for 6 months 24/7 before moving to Sauro/Zi'tah and then Kuftal its not some incredible player and nice guy you're dealing with but chinese kids sitting in a workshop somewhere playing in shifts. (or something similar)
And can people please stop saying "the LS guy"? When a group of 5 people has been in Buburimu for 6 months 24/7 before moving to Sauro/Zi'tah and then Kuftal its not some incredible player and nice guy you're dealing with but chinese kids sitting in a workshop somewhere playing in shifts. (or something similar)
Well, I scanned through this forum section really quick. So if someone said this already, I'll say it again. If not, then let me be the first one to say this.
1: ITS NOT THE GILSELLERS WHO ARE AT FAULT.
2: ITS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THE GIL WHO ARE AT FAULT!
3: IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT GILSELLERS, JUST STFU AND STOP BUYING THE DAMN GIL.
4: THIS IS A GAME, WHY SPEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN LARGE AMOUNTS OF FAKE MONEY.
5: IF YOU WANT TO BLOW OFF LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN "NOTHING", PLEASE GIVE ME A /TELL AND I WILL GIVE YOU MY "PAYPAL EMAIL" TO SEND ME THE $$$ FOR NOTHING AT ALL... d(^.^)b
6: I HEAR PEOPLE ALL THE TIME SAYING "I CANT FARM, THERE'S TOO MANY GILSELLERS. WELL GO FARM SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISNT CAMPED. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS FARMING GIL, PLEASE /TELL XENGER IN GAME FOR SOME REFERENCES IN HOW TO FARM.
7: AS TO THE RATE DOWN/UPS. WHO CARES? ITS ONLY A FORUM, ONE WHERE YOU'RE BEHIND THE SCREEN OF A COMPUTER. ITS ONLY PEOPLE JUDGING YOU BY THE WAY WAY YOU REPLY TO THESE THINGS. (THAT DOESNT MEAN ANY OF YOU RATE ME DOWN FOR THIS POST!!! RATE UP? YES PLEASE!)
well, thats my 2 gils. thanks for listening! :D
1: ITS NOT THE GILSELLERS WHO ARE AT FAULT.
2: ITS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THE GIL WHO ARE AT FAULT!
3: IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT GILSELLERS, JUST STFU AND STOP BUYING THE DAMN GIL.
4: THIS IS A GAME, WHY SPEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN LARGE AMOUNTS OF FAKE MONEY.
5: IF YOU WANT TO BLOW OFF LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN "NOTHING", PLEASE GIVE ME A /TELL AND I WILL GIVE YOU MY "PAYPAL EMAIL" TO SEND ME THE $$$ FOR NOTHING AT ALL... d(^.^)b
6: I HEAR PEOPLE ALL THE TIME SAYING "I CANT FARM, THERE'S TOO MANY GILSELLERS. WELL GO FARM SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISNT CAMPED. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS FARMING GIL, PLEASE /TELL XENGER IN GAME FOR SOME REFERENCES IN HOW TO FARM.
7: AS TO THE RATE DOWN/UPS. WHO CARES? ITS ONLY A FORUM, ONE WHERE YOU'RE BEHIND THE SCREEN OF A COMPUTER. ITS ONLY PEOPLE JUDGING YOU BY THE WAY WAY YOU REPLY TO THESE THINGS. (THAT DOESNT MEAN ANY OF YOU RATE ME DOWN FOR THIS POST!!! RATE UP? YES PLEASE!)
well, thats my 2 gils. thanks for listening! :D
Quote:
said this already, I'll say it again. If not, then let me be the first one to say this.
1: ITS NOT THE GILSELLERS WHO ARE AT FAULT.
2: ITS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THE GIL WHO ARE AT FAULT!
3: IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT GILSELLERS, JUST STFU AND STOP BUYING THE DAMN GIL.
4: THIS IS A GAME, WHY SPEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN LARGE AMOUNTS OF FAKE MONEY.
5: IF YOU WANT TO BLOW OFF LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN "NOTHING", PLEASE GIVE ME A /TELL AND I WILL GIVE YOU MY "PAYPAL EMAIL" TO SEND ME THE $$$ FOR NOTHING AT ALL... d(^.^)b
6: I HEAR PEOPLE ALL THE TIME SAYING "I CANT FARM, THERE'S TOO MANY GILSELLERS. WELL GO FARM SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISNT CAMPED. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS FARMING GIL, PLEASE /TELL XENGER IN GAME FOR SOME REFERENCES IN HOW TO FARM.
7: AS TO THE RATE DOWN/UPS. WHO CARES? ITS ONLY A FORUM, ONE WHERE YOU'RE BEHIND THE SCREEN OF A COMPUTER. ITS ONLY PEOPLE JUDGING YOU BY THE WAY WAY YOU REPLY TO THESE THINGS. (THAT DOESNT MEAN ANY OF YOU RATE ME DOWN FOR THIS POST!!! RATE UP? YES PLEASE!)
well, thats my 2 gils. thanks for listening! :D
1: ITS NOT THE GILSELLERS WHO ARE AT FAULT.
2: ITS THE PEOPLE WHO ARE BUYING THE GIL WHO ARE AT FAULT!
3: IF YOU WANT TO COMPLAIN ABOUT GILSELLERS, JUST STFU AND STOP BUYING THE DAMN GIL.
4: THIS IS A GAME, WHY SPEND LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN LARGE AMOUNTS OF FAKE MONEY.
5: IF YOU WANT TO BLOW OFF LARGE AMOUNTS OF REAL MONEY TO OBTAIN "NOTHING", PLEASE GIVE ME A /TELL AND I WILL GIVE YOU MY "PAYPAL EMAIL" TO SEND ME THE $$$ FOR NOTHING AT ALL... d(^.^)b
6: I HEAR PEOPLE ALL THE TIME SAYING "I CANT FARM, THERE'S TOO MANY GILSELLERS. WELL GO FARM SOMETHING ELSE THAT ISNT CAMPED. IF YOU HAVE PROBLEMS FARMING GIL, PLEASE /TELL XENGER IN GAME FOR SOME REFERENCES IN HOW TO FARM.
7: AS TO THE RATE DOWN/UPS. WHO CARES? ITS ONLY A FORUM, ONE WHERE YOU'RE BEHIND THE SCREEN OF A COMPUTER. ITS ONLY PEOPLE JUDGING YOU BY THE WAY WAY YOU REPLY TO THESE THINGS. (THAT DOESNT MEAN ANY OF YOU RATE ME DOWN FOR THIS POST!!! RATE UP? YES PLEASE!)
well, thats my 2 gils. thanks for listening! :D
{/clap} Well said and well played.
Quote:
Funkenstein - Galka - Windurst
AHA! It was YOU following me to Tavazian Stronghold. You little sneak!
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