Is it just me or are whm getting horrible in the 60s :/Follow

I'm Amone on Ragnarok and i've gotten too many invites recently and i've been hesitant to accept them cause of so many bad whm messing up the pt.


Sry if i offend anyone but recently, I've been in pt's with whm who just suck. They don't haste, or regen the tank. I find myself having to pick up the slack from the whm and that takes up most of my mp :/. Then the whm will always ask me why my MP is so low (-_-).

I've gotten many compliments about how i perform in pt's and I am also one of the few rdm who is in the 60s. I do my job right and everything but it's usually the whm who messes up the pt and makes chains horrible ; ; (worst one yet was 1.5k an hr at 63)

I kno hasting the DD can be dangerous but i've pt'd with many good palys also at 63 who can definately conrol hate. I've only seen about one bad one who wasnt covering, flashing, curing...

Maybe its just bad luck, but have many of you seen this problem lately?
Heres the way i usually start out the battle at the begining of the pt.

My rdm cycle: refresh/ slow/ dia/ refresh/ paralyze/ poison2/ refresh/ frost. Then i haste the people the whm frgt to haste.


Edit: For future posters. The 4th paragraph is jsut explaining about hasting, I'm not saying that you should haste the DD everytime. To some of the previous posteers, plz read more carefully next time.
Also bolded another part for people who didnt pay attention to it


Edited, Wed Dec 29 03:48:06 2004 by Magichealing

Edited, Wed Dec 29 03:48:29 2004 by Magichealing

heh i try to spam gravity but i always end up frgting to recast it after the 40 sec recast :/

Double post - sorry .. i have ran into rdm's that did not do there jobs well as well as all other jobs. There will always be that do there job do good and those that don't.

I understand the comparison to Refresh, since Haste has an equal MP cost and similar recast time; however, many people would say that a RDM's primary duty is to ensure Refresh is active on those who need it, while a WHM's primary duty is keeping everyone alive.

That being said, I keep Haste active on as many people as I can as long as it doesn't interfere with Cures, Regens, Erase, etc. With a PLD tank I'll keep Haste active on the two melee DDs. With a NIN tank I'll make sure the NIN is hasted constantly, then Haste the slowest TP-gainer in the group (usually DRK, WAR, or DRG). If the party is good and no one's taking much damage, then I can cycle in the third melee or PLD as well. If not, then usually the RDM (if there is one) has no problem using Haste on the third one.

I would also hope that a rdm that refuse to refresh a drk that uses his absorb-spells is a rare thing. Every job with mp should be refreshed appropriately. A drk might not need it every fight but should definately get it as often as is needed for him to do his job. You'd think that it would be obvious but for some odd reason it's not to some people.

As for the primary duty of rdm....I've always felt that it's not really one but many tasks that is equally important of our job. Refresh is of course one of them but enfeebles is another. Due to the importance of dispel it's another. Even backup cures and back-up duty on haste/bar-spells/status cures I would consider as part of our primary duty as we are the support class that has the ability to fill the most roles in a pt. The notion that the primary duty of rdm is to refresh people leads me to the next part of this post....

Rdm being necessary....well, even though I should support that idea I feel must disagree. People tend to think too highly of us so that they will let us get away with basically anything as long as the refresh and dispel is at least present in the pt. Even when it's not used as in the example above. This and the fact that a poor rdm is very obvious is at least part of the reason that we see so many stories of bad rdms. I'm sure that people could lvl just as good with brd/whm/blm pts or even without brd or rdm and just use juices.

y did i get rated down?? i was simply just asking if many have seen whm acting like this at higher lvls :/ I know that there are good whm out there. I know that i am a good rdm cause i've had no complaints so far and many compliments.

I will say again, have people seen whms slacking off recently around lvl 62ish? (if you havent pt'd recently at this lvl, then plz dont answer thiis question)

Edit: to the previous posts about drk, i've always refreshed a good drk that uses his spells right but if hes just randomly casting elemental magic, i wont cause it's a waste of my 40mp. Also, as long as the drk doesnt blow all of their mp per battle, ill refresh them.

Edited, Wed Dec 29 03:54:52 2004 by Magichealing

Ok, I think I can answer this question.

I started out as a whm, took it to 61 and started to fall asleep during parties.
I started to lvl ranger, its 72 and climbing fast.

So I think i have good incite into this. But let me say this first, if you have not played a whm, rdm or bard, you really have no right to complain. What I have notices is melee and blm jobs are extremely easy to play. They are mindless jobs more or less. Sorry if this offends. I can be half asleep in a party and still be a good ranger.

Playing whm to about 60 is fairly easy, cure, haste, regen, rest. Not much to it. Too things to not, haste is nice but people do forget that it costs mp, if your whm is good you need to trust them to use mp wisely. Sometimes that mean noone gets haste accept nin tank if it would hinder chains. Haste really doesnt make a huge difference as many think. Chaining is the number one priority and mp is needed to do that, sometimes you can haste sometimes you cant.

Ok now for my explaination. At lvl 61+ things change in battle. Mobs you start to fight have status effect attacks. This can cause things to get a little crazy, i know i started lvling whm. Main healer at this lvl becomes the hardest job in the game hands down. You are watching health, trying to watch log for status effects are learning the sounds of the attacks that cause the effects. Tanks should have macros to let mages know when they are paralyzed, "stoned" etc. It makes things easier to see cause the battle text can go buy so fast. Be patient.

So now you are curing, hasting, erasing effects, regen, medding, barsomething, it is very tiring. Where as a melee you can do your job and sit back and relax until you tp is ready. Mages will know what I am talking about.

You might be thinking well before crabs have str down aoe etc, that dont count, they can spam that 3 times a fight and most times its just not worth it to keep castign erase cause by the time your done erasing everyone the crab will aoe again, so most whm will ignore it more or less unless the fights are easy. Too much mp used.

So this is why at 61+ whms can seem not as good.

Plus there is an atitude towards whms and melee think its an easy job. Again melee is a brainless job, i know i am one too. I will give an example. My first pt back as whm i lvled with friend in cape. We had no refresher. So I had to change strategies. Noone got hasted exceptthe nin tank. I regen, cure med, and repeat. I probably medded about 80 percent of the fight to keep my mp high. Now a good whm will know how much damage a mob is capable of doing. Why is this important. As mages no, the more you med the bigger chunk of mp is restored every tick. I let the tank get into brown so I can get as much mp back as possibe. Was the tank in danger of dying, no, because i know what damage the mob is capable of. So without a refresher I was able to keep mp high and we had absolutly no downtime and we chained 5 every fight.

So I asked a couple members of the party that I know how i did cause it was my first time in about 8 months. The two of them said, so so and ok. I asked why, they said you let the tank get into brown and he almost died a couple of times, then you used cure 5 and thats too much hate.

Well if you a whm you know that cure 5 has maybe the same hate as cure 3 and is the most mp effiecient cure spell. And as I stated the tank was in no danger of getting killed cause i knew the damage the mob was capable of. They also said didnt get hasted, again this goes back to mp eff.

Now I ask you, a main healer, with no refresher able to keep no downtime and chain five consistantly. Is that a good whm or a so so whm.

This is the ignorance that healers have to deal with. If hes good and you trust him, trust he knows what he is doing. If you have never played a main healer at a higher lvl you really cant give an opinion on the argument.

Ok I am done, that was long, I am sorry.

ummmm whats a whm? we have a rdm main healer and a brd works pretty damn good ^^


of course whm are nice with raise 2 and what not

I personally have trouble every time there is a thf in the party. There are few that can seem to get sata off fast enough. Many times im staring at 800hp down before hate transfers to the main tank. Talk about a mana sink. That will eat a party hastes faster than anything. Other than that I can usually get haste off to the melee without a hitch.

800hp is roughly equal to 150 mp. (hurts if that’s how every battle starts)

That is just one example of what may be happening. There are many other things that can add to it. I say talk to your whm about it, its the only way to get anything productive done. Better than saying all whm in 60's are getting horrible (division anyone?)

It isn't even plausible to say that a whm would get worse at higher levels (in relation to player skill) A more plausible cause is that jobs difficulty at that level is much higher than before.



Edited, Sun Jan 2 07:22:15 2005 by xahn

most whm's are horrible.. not just in the 60s.

I have only experienced horrid whms when leveling my Bard for some reason I ended up with alot of Thfs turned Whm who held the unfortunate belief that the party would die without them...You just shrug that stuff off. Other then that, Ive really enjoyed the white mages Ive gotten to work with...most really just want to help people.
whm 59 brd 48 blm 35 war 31 thf 28 drk 25 nin 21 yada yada I'm indecisive - I like all jobs >.<

you probably did it for friends like I did then ended up being like.. MAN how did I get here????? Ive got everything over 10 mainly from low lvl farming (cus of crafts) I like the game and I just dont feel rushed to run to 75.....I guess I like to smell the flowers ...kind of dorky I suppose. yes, although I am a bit gruff(or witchy >.>) I spend the majority of my time helping other people. So my friends are like 68-75 and I'm 59..maybe Im a slacker lol

its funny u say that because one of the worst pt's I was in was JP in Gustav lol. I dont pick parties based on race/religion etc the more mixed the merrier.. i love learning about the cultures and what not. the ppl i love to pt with are from such diverse backgrounds.. 1 is from Italy, a few from China, Barbados, UK, Saudi Arabia etc...what jp has that we dont is a few more years exp and specialty books teaching them how to play their jobs etc those lucky ducks...but obviously some people just suck at it regardless of how much help...I think people go into jobs for the wrong reasons.. such as ease of getting parties (bad choice for chosing whm and generally leads to some **** poor partIES)