Economy Boom V.S. Gil-SellingFollow

I have a question about the gilbuyersteve perspective.

I can get an idea of what's going on by your original theory, it's very informative and a good idea of what you're trying to say. But where you say the gil is going if gilbuyersteve is going to a different source?

for example, Gilbuyersteve purchases 5million gil from IGE. Steve then goes and buys Hauberk, and whatever other non-gilseller farmed items (Crafted for example). The money then can be seen is being cycled to the other non-ige orientated sellers, which then have either the option to purchase monopolized items, save that money, or be in the same situation as steve as trying to buy the 'next-tier' item.


Edited, Sun Nov 21 23:40:09 2004 by gaidensensei

I had an interesting thought on this earlier and I'm willing to bet a fair number of people actually DO this.


Nearly every post here (on the entire site) assumes that players are purchasing gil to purchase a single high value item. But now let's suppose players purchasing gil to support high cost jobs with large expenses, or leveling high expense crafts.

A level 60 NIN goes out and needs 100K to support his next level session, so he goes and drops $10 at IGE and he's got the cash to level. Obviously all these supplies are destroyed by use. Though the gil still remains in the hands of the crafter, who most likely will use it to craft more of the same item with the attendant breaks and loss of materials. Any materials purchased from NPCs will result in a 'loss' of that currency as well since it goes out of circulation.

Player A decides to level Goldsmithing and purchases 100k to start off. Given breaks, cost of materials and low return on NPCing crafted goods at low levels, a fair portion of that 100k is 'lost' in the process.

Those are just two examples of breaking the 'cycle' buying gil to buy an itme listed by a gil seller.

Also, as a side note, gil at IGE is actually effectively "removed" from the game while it is awaiting sale. Yes it exists but it is, in a sense, a 'reserve' fund. That money does not circulate until someone buys gil. While that gil sits in the mule accounts awaiting delivery, NEW gil is inserted to the game as players farm, complete quests, sell items to NPCs instead of the AH. This effectively "de-values' the gil currently in the game including that in IGE's hands.


Just my two cents.

Bleh. I had hoped this topic was going to die without further digs at me, Ayashi. I just deleted a full reply, because you know what? It's not worth the time to restart this crap. If you still hell bent on being right, fine, you can win. It doesn't matter to me. If you want to take your feelings as fact, so be it. The only thing I ever offered was a GENERAL model, so of course it's not going to cover all aspects of the system. So thanks for pointing out the extremely obvious - 3rd graders everywhere thank you.

I have many more choice words I'd like to say concerning your subtle digs at me and my "lack of perspective", but I'll be nice, because you'll just get your dander up again, call me childish and tell me to grow up when you in fact started this whole thing up...again. So forget it; my point is made, the resounding support for the (once again) general model has been shown, so I'm done. Feel free to flame me all you like; I'm done wasting my time here. The people who wanted to understand the model in the spirit for which it is offered have done just that, so my purpose is accomplished. Good day.

/em points at her new siggy and hopes this is the last of it.
I enjoy the economical aspect of it, and found a lot of interesting information in it. But like a linkshell mate said to me the other day, any gil selling conversation leads to an argument and it's best to just nip these in the bud before they get out of hand. (Or something to that effect.) Unfortunately I came across this thread a little late (I usually don't read anything with the words "gil" and "sell" in the title) but I'm bored. So unless anyone has anything has any new information that is informative, non-flamy, and thought-provoking, please stop killing the kittens already.


Edit: Crap, I just killed one.

Edited, Mon Nov 29 13:08:28 2004 by queeniexb

Heh, why would someone buy gil for Archer's Rings? I mean do people actually use them? Because that's the only plausible reason I can think of... After all, if you're buying gil, then you're obviously too cheap and/or have too little time to get your skill up to the point where you can craft Sniper's Rings... right? o.O

It still comes down to the real players causing the problem though. We are the ones driving prices up by actually paying them. We place the high demand on items, which then makes it lucrative for the gil sellers to overcamp certain mobs. We are the ones who overcompete with each other when the gil sellers aren't around and cause witch hunts. We cause the demand, they are just filling the void.

Ok, somewhat off topic? Yes. Solution to gil sellers? I pray.

Now, Ive talked this idea over with a few members of my Ls and they agree its a good idea, the hard part? Getting SE to cooperate.

Heres how it works,I call up a GM and set up an appointment to speak with one, I tell him Im going to buy gil from IGE, but in doing so, Im going to help rat out the gil sellers. How you say? I spend some of my money on gil, then when its delivered I trace it back to who sent it, report it to a GM and hand over the bad gil. As compensation for my money and helping them, the convert the money I spent into time I dont need to pay for the game.

I think this idea is crazy. I also believe it will work if put into motion.

So, to get rid of gil sellers we BUY gil, rat out the sellers, hand over the bad gil and get compensated for our efforts by not having to pay X amount on our next monthly fee.

Whats the problem with this? Its going to take TRUST, and alot of it.

Criticize.....now.

It's true that we actually aid the gilsellers by paying them gil for the items they sell, but that by no means absolves them of blame. If they weren't there causing all this inflation, then we wouldn't be having these problems.

As for /slap'ing Pasco & Nozokimi & such... I just consider this part of raising awareness about the gilsellers and their activities. The less people we can get to use them, the better. And besides, they're already violating the rules of the game, so I consider it justified.

It's not up to me to decide who is breaking the rules and to deal with those who are. It is SE's job. Most I can do is bring it to their attention. Harrassing the person is going to get us nowhere and until SE decides to get someone off of the server, the truth is, would you rather have them performing a useable service or gouging prices and monopolizing items? Slapping them is not going to convince people not to use them. Nor is it going to stop them.

I think alot of people are forgetting an important factor that contributes to the inflation on sniper rings. First of all, sniper rings are crafted from Acher's ring through leathercraft and the gilsellers camp Archer's rings not Sniper's rings. The problem that I see here is that high lvl crafters are willing to invest a crapload of gil into crafting Sniper's ring in hopes of crafting sniper's +1 rings which sell for about 3mil on Ramuh. Therefore it is these high lvl crafters, mostly JPN players I would say according to the price history, that is causing the inflation. They are so intent in either lvl'n their craft skill or making money that they do not really care about the price that the gilsellers set and buy like 10 of them at once. Gilbuyers are also part of the problem because they do buy the inflated price that crafters sell them at also, but I've noticed that sometimes crafters sell snipers for cheaper that archers because they craft so much and do not care about the loss... esp if they bought 10 archers for 550k, that says something about their financial status...

Maybe Im alone here but I think that gil-sellers, Bots and farmers all help the games economy the same way that cheap labor helps our economy, the reason for high prices is high demand, people seem to forget that europe was recently added to the mix and that created higher demand the same way that it did when the USA was added, inflation is not the problem when it comes to higher prices, demand is items that r priced too high dont sell thats just the way it is <go try and sell a copper ring for 20k> when demand is high then the prices will eventually go up and when demand is low they will go down it really is that simple, if u want an item for less than make it yourself, people dont want to go through all of the time to lvl their own crafts so what u end up with is a premium attatched to crafted and farmed items. this is totally fair. if there were no bots and sellers then those items would be totally unavailable to most consumers. its the american way.
Read an economics book.
I dont bot, but thank god they exist

Heres a little thought I came up with while reading this at work.
(Yes I know lol)



I thought for a while that it would be impossible. But then it hit me. What if (Please understand this is a means to an end.) We all bought the minimum amount of gil. Obviously whoever sends the gil to you is a seller. You then /tell GM's. They then take care of the problem (Hopefully with account deletion.) Presto facto we may have a temporary solution (Eventually they will find way to con us again.)

BTW heres my stance on sellers. I dont as much mind the sellers, But, I DO mind the fact that they bot the items for the gil. You might not see it my way but THAT IS CHEATING. FFXI is a game, and they are using a unfair advantage to exploit us. Me = Anti-Cheater. To put it in laymans terms if youve ever played any other online games, youve probably ran into hackers. No one likes them. Botters/Sellers are hacking this game. If I could I would take affirmative action (Fist --> Face).

I looked through this whole thread and not once did I see anything mentioned on the OTHER SIDE of the economy equation. It's like some sort of biased propaganda political machine you find in government. If you people are going to come up with thoughts and theories on the economy of ANYTHING, you HAVE TO discuss both sides of the supply/demand equation. One thing I do agree with and have no problem with is that increased demand will indeed raise prices as supply remains stagnant. FACT.

But, what's not discussed in any way, shape or form, is the fact that as supply increases, prices fall. Once again, as supply increases, prices fall. FACT!

Example: Check the prices of insect wings! Ask yourself how many times you've received that item and what you did with it?! Most likely response: Unless you needed it for synthesis, you've most likely tossed insect wings every time you've received. Why? You can get insect wings so fast and easily that the supply becomes high. When supply is that high, you can't even get them sold for 1g each.

Example: Check the prices of tree cuttings! Would you ever toss out such an item? HELL NO! It's worth 40-60k each because the chances of it dropping are low. When supply is low, prices are going to rise!

The same can be said for most items that have such high prices. As long as items remain difficult to obtain, prices are going to remain HIGH, whether we like it or not. Imagine the price drop that would occur on scoprion harnesses if the Venomous Claw dropped off of a scorpions in the Maze of Shikrami or even all scorpions. Just imagine it!

We all want to blame gilsellers and gilbuyers for every little problem on the game. It's not ONLY their fault. There's a hell of a lot more to the economy that just gilsellers. It's unfair to only blame them or to try to place some kind of unbalanced blame on them either. There's plenty of blame to go around and it starts with SE.

If you want to see prices drop, heres A REAL SOLUTION TO STEMMING INFLATION:
1) increase the actual supply of items across the board to allow the opportunity to meet demand
2) create more rare or rare/ex items which is an effective tool in lowering demand (there's no reason for me to go into rolanberry fields and see one of the statues selling 8 Scorpion Harnesses for 10M a piece.)

If SE could finally stop being such tightwads with everything, you will see that less people will buy gil because in the long run, THEY SIMPLY WON'T NEED OR WANT TO BUY GIL!

More proof that I couldn't be more right, there are quite a few items in which SE has already increased the availability through BCNMs and other ways as well. So, they do realize that they are part of the problem with the economy and by doing something about it, they acknowledge it to the community! All we need now is for SE to do MORE about it!