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Extra Note2: The people who work would make (in Britain) @ least £5.25 an hour, and work around 7 hours. so 7x5.25= £36.75 a day, working 5 days 36.75x5=£183.75, Converting that into dollars @ the Rate of 1.72 A weeks worth of Wages would mean $316 dollars.
Picking a random number. Bills a week(inc. rent/mortgage[sp])= $180, Shopping= $50, Thatwould leave roughly about $80 dollars? Now that 12.95, would leave 70. This is a single person living in a very rundown flat, And not being of working age, my facts most likely arent correct, but if they work 5days a week, thats 20 days a month? leave on average 10 days of 'free time', During that time they would visit family, 'hang out' with friends, do chores, sleep, leaving roughly about 2-3 days of play time, so those 2-3 days of playtime is worth roughly $4... Where's the 43 cents now?
Flawed reasoning #1: This person is paying $12.95 a month. Sorry, last I checked no one came to my house, put a gun to my head and forced me to buy the game or even keep it past my free month OR pay $12.95. This person is MAKING A CHOICE. If he's spending his money, that's his right. And that money is going to a service which he is permitted to use under the terms of the EULA. If, as I seem to think you are suggesting, this fee is a financial hardship of some sort, maybe he shouldn't be playing?
Flawed Reasoning #2:
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so those 2-3 days of playtime is worth roughly $4... Where's the 43 cents now?
Simple, you pay $12.95 per month for the ability to use the Playonline service and access Final Fantasy. You accepted a contract that says you agree that using FFXI:Online is worth $12.95 per month to you. If you do some really simple math that means $12.95/30 days in the month will yeild 0.4316x cents per day that you have agreed to pay. That means if you shold lose 24 hours of access to the service you have 'lost' 0.4316x cents that you have pre-paid for that time. On months with 31 days you're actually only paying out 0.4177x cetns per day to play. This is the established value of play time you agreed to in the EULA and pay paying this amount every month. How would SE be liable for anything beyond that? There is a contract in place establishing a value for the service which can easily used as a baseline to establish 'loss'. You can adjust this up or down obviously based on the extra $1 a month you agree to pay for additional characters, so adjust your math accordingly if such is the case. So that's where the 43 cents is, still is and always will be.
$4 is a fictional number of no use in this equation as it simply doesn't apply.The reason is as I stated above previously. What is your time worth? What is mine worth? In theory we each have different values for our time based on employment. THat's pretty simple and obvious. I make $50 an hour, you make $6, so does SE owe me more money becuase I make more an hour than you do? And imagine the Corporate attorney making $600 an hour, SE's into him for a TON of green aren't they? Nope. You know why? Because of the above example. THe time we play is time we are not working, making income, but leisure time we all have chosen to spend in the same hobby. This resets all of our time values to a common mark. zero. But we have all also agreed that this time has a value commensurate with the cost of play. This time has a set value as laid out above. No more no less. So your $4 does apply any more than my trying to say SE owe me $400 or the lawer $5000. THey are groundless claims.
Flawed Reasoning #3: 3 days? Total server down time was less than 24 hours. And unless you're telling me hours are counted differently in the UK than in the US, I have no idea where the 3 days number came from. it may have been spread across some 70 hours, but are you really claiming you spend 72 hours straight playing? If so, look into decaff. Also, economies of scale don't matter. Your $640k number is misleading. 43 cents paid back to 500,000 users would be $215,000. About a third of what you state. And it would be $215,000 / 500,000 which puts you right back to 43 cents. See? Unavoidable number because it's just a fact. No obsession required, no thought either. No more than people who add 1+1 are obsessed by the #2..just happens to be how the math works out.
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Also with what your said about one person using an arguement, look at how many of us complain/ set up valid arguements about third-person programs, GS's. Do you see SE getting sued for that?
They make gestures of goodwill (kicking known GS for example), they tell us about their actions, so if you want to pry deep into others people arguements go ahead and pry, thenreflect on your arguements and see how flawed they are.
Flawed Reasoning #4: Banning of a Gil seller, Griefer, MPKer,3p apps, or such is not a 'gesture of goodwill'. It is, in fact, enforcement of the EULA and SE's rights under it. Reporting is as much PR as it is threat to those who were missed that time around. SE can't be sued for enforcing the EULA because they are in fact exercising a legal right you agreed they had by playing the game. No goodwill about it. It is, in point of fact, SE making sure they retain their rights by enforcing them.
Something to think about. It seems everyone can grab the EULA and User TOS and quote it like the bible when it comes to Gil selling, MPK, griefign, etc. BUT, let me point out....
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SEI makes no assurances, representations or warranties whatsoever about the accuracy, currency or continuing availability of this Player Data at any time and reserves its right, at any time and from time to time, without notice to you, to delete all or any part of your Player Data. SEI shall have no liability to you or to any third party for any such deletion, and further shall not be held responsible for any complete or partial deletion done or caused by you, any third party, or other act or occurrence beyond SEI’s reasonable control, such as a fire, power outage, natural disaster, terrorist act, equipment failure or any other such act or occurrence, whether or not similar to the foregoing.
Translation - Sometimes we might lose stuff, accidentally, by act of god, or otherwise. Terribly sorry, cope. Bad things happen.
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SEI does not warrant that the Licensed Software will meet your expectations or requirements, or that the operation of the Licensed Software will be uninterrupted or error free. The entire risk as to the quality and performance of the Licensed Software is with you.
Translation: Sorry to dissapoint. Terrible really, so sorry. Cope.
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IN NO EVENT SHALL SEI BE LIABLE TO YOU OR TO ANY THIRD PARTY FOR ANY DAMAGES WHATSOEVER ARISING OUT OF YOUR USE OR INABILITY TO USE THE LICENSED SOFTWARE, INCLUDING WITHOUT LIMITATION ANY SPECIAL, INDIRECT, INCIDENTAL, OR CONSEQUENTIAL DAMAGES, OR DAMAGES FOR LOSS OF DATA, LOST PROFITS, OR LOST BUSINESS OPPORTUNITIES, REGARDLESS OF THE LEGAL THEORY UNDER WHICH SUCH DAMAGES ARE SOUGHT, AND EVEN IF ADVISED IN ADVANCE OF THE POSSIBILITY OF SUCH DAMAGES. WITHOUT LIMITING THE FOREGOING, IN NO EVENT WILL SEI’S TOTAL LIABILITY ARISING OUT OF OR IN CONNECTION WITH THIS AGREEMENT OR WITH ANY PRODUCTS OR SERVICES PROVIDED HEREUNDER EXCEED THE HIGHEST AMOUNT PAID BY YOU IN A SINGLE MONTH TO SEI AS YOUR SUBSCRIPTION FEE FOR USE OF THE PLAYONLINE SERVICE AND/OR ANY RELATED PRODUCTS OR SERVICES.
(Sorry Caps are theirs, not mine)
Now keep in mind, you AGREED to ALL of the above the moment you signed on. All of them roughly end up saying "too bad" should something happen that costs you time/money. And paying special attention to the last section above, even if you could prove your most elaborate case, SE's TOTAL debt to you would be your last months bill, at MOST.
So, now that we all agree that we KNEW we had no reasonable expection of compensation, and that yes, it would be nice if SE threw some kind of event for us to run around towns wasting even more time for no real reason, are we done here?
OR do you guys still want your 43 cents back :)?
BTW: I haven't rated anyone's post here, up or down, save Tiffie's...UP cause usually I agree with her at least in part or becuase she makes her points so well it's hard not to appreciate the effort.
Edited, Thu Apr 14 14:48:34 2005 by airamis EDIT: One other thought. REmember the title of this thread is "are we still going to be billed the same amount", so yes, in point of fact, the basis of this entire thread DOES amount to "give me money". Becuase it started with a question that implied a desire to have the monthly bill adjusted to compensate for the down time. Which, last I checked, we pay in money.
Edited, Thu Apr 14 14:56:09 2005 by airamis