Things we'd be talking about if the forum wasn't deadFollow

I think that's because you're still making a distinction that's circular. The term "selling" suggests a for-profit motivation, but the real issue isn't whether the degree is "for sale", but whether the result is people getting degrees that maybe don't reflect their own actual capabilities and knowledge, or that are in areas of study that aren't terribly useful with regard to the job market. State schools absolutely have a motivation to pad the education stats. Not a profit motivation, but from a "look how successful our education policy is" point of view? Absolutely have a motivation. And that motivation is going to result in pressure to administrators to channel students into degree paths that maximize graduation rates. And that's before looking at issues of affirmative action policies (ie: using government influence over the education industry to push a social agenda unrelated to education itself).

I think that people don't see this because they are *only* looking at forms of manipulation and pressure that result from the very for-profit motivation that they start out blaming. I'm arguing that if you expand the issue from just that set and look at any of a number of causes that can result in a negative bang for buck effect on education, then those causes can be from just about anything. And yeah, government can and often is one of the biggest offenders.



I think both of those types of school suffer from this, just in slightly different ways. For every ITT, there's a dozen other trade and adult education schools out there that are worth spending the time and money for. Let's not forget that it was Joph who brought up ITT specifically, not me. I only spoke of the broader case of trade schools and adult education (specifically as an alternative to the "four year university or bust" mentality that has taken over our education industry. Most careers do not require a four year degree. Most careers don't even require a 2 year degree. Most people would be most benefited by a school that perhaps had a single year of training tailored to a specific area. You can do tech work in a lab with just a few courses worth of training and be competent at it (and probably take in 30-40k a year starting out). Similar cases apply to most of what we might call modern artisan jobs (but don't because that term has fallen out of favor). Computer programming? You literally need to take like maybe 4 or 5 programming classes to learn this (and the rest of your life mastering it). Same can be said for a whole lot of career path jobs out there.

Those kinds of education/training could be available for much less than it costs for secondary education today, and would actually be a better path forward for a large percentage of those entering the workforce. It certainly would set a lower bottom rung for future upward mobility. Which I think would be a very good thing.

Excellent point. Getting rid of government interference by eliminating intellectual property protections would bring down a lot of medication pricing right quick. Unless you're going to suggest that having a monopoly on a product doesn't allow for price inflation. Which would be pretty interesting considering that we actually have laws prohibiting companies from gaining monopolies in other areas because -- surprise! -- they don't respond to locking the market by offering the best product for the lowest price as you think happens in your Pollyanna world.


By the by, I'm not personally suggesting that patent law be eliminated, just an acknowledgement that it does allow for price inflation since it minimizes competition with the government's protection

Edited, Sep 22nd 2016 10:20pm by Jophiel

Did you have to drop Martin Shkreli's dick to free your hands up to type that lie?

Uh...no.

Medical equipment and efficiency have improved dramatically over the last couple of decades in just about every area. MRIs have similar costs yes, but they are massively improved over older devices with exponentially higher resolutions and reliability.

You see, a company would have tried to make it cheaper so they could make higher margins, our health care system tries to make it better because cost shouldn't be the deciding factor in saving lives.

The competition isn't between the hospitals. It's between the equipment manufacturers, they compete for government purchase orders.

Government paid work has very specific requirements for their purchases, they have very well designed procurement processes. I know, I've done work for them, it's infinitely easier to provide services to private industry because their standards are way lower.

And really....laser eye surgery? That's your example? Laser eye surgery is cheaper because physicists learned how to make better lasers after discovering certain properties of light that we were previously unaware of. That was publicly funded research into light manipulation done at universities. Competition doesn't make things, it can drive down costs but it also drives down quality because things that last don't make you money.

These for profit schools ( If I'm understanding the terminology) look at numbers. They have near 100% acceptance rates and their tuition conveniently matches what the government will pay.

The hotel I'm staying at doesn't seem to air condition the hallways. So it's 72 in my room, but if I open the door and go out in the hall it's like... 90 with no air circulation. It's pretty shocking every morning when I get up to go to work. Hot, humid air, always seems hard to breath. Like getting punched in the face when I open the door.

Apparently. I'll have to look up the 2012 attempt which seems to have had positive reviews and was killed, ironically, by a bureaucratic decision that BBC 4 should show more purchased imported programming.

Old news. A few weeks back there was already reports of neighbor watch types firing randomly into the woods behind their apartments because they heard something and thought it was the evil clown trying to steal their kids with candy and stuff.

I blame Stephen King.

Edited, Sep 24th 2016 11:57pm by TirithRR

THAT HAS TO BE ROCK BOTTOM IN ANYONE'S LIFE

ROCK

BOTTOM

Nah, it's a vital marketing campaign.

Hallucinations would be the more likely explanation.

Nah, Hallucinations, obviously, didn't you get the Memo?