Seattle is developing a 7 acre 'Free to Forage Food Forest' in an urban area.
I've often wondered about these types of things and how they're regulated. Apparently, this one is not going to be regulated. Anyone will be able to forage as much as they like under the idea that each will only take what they need and/or can use. I just don't see that working. I consider myself a relatively honest and equitable person, but I'd be out there foraging not only fruit/berries/nuts to eat fresh but to preserve - and if you're going to can, you're going to make extra.
I do that now. I forage a lot of the stuff from our local arboreturm. Even in this rural nature park, that is not really open to foraging (I got permission - sort of) I have to forage the blackberries daily for a week or so, to get them after they're ripe but before anyone else gets them. I race against the farmer to collect quinces before they become horse fodder. I've given up on the chokecheery tree in a public right-away just a few hundred feet down on my road. Someone else always gets there before me and cleans the tree completely.
Do you think people's greed will allow this sort of concept to work - as intended?
Secondly, it appears that the state is providing this food forest, and I'm assuming will be maintaining it. So basically the state is giving away free food - randomly. It's not necessarily going to those most needy or most deserving, but most likely, disproportionately to those that live closest, or have the opportunity to spend a couple hours each day to forage. Is this equitable?
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Alma wrote:
I lost my post
I foresee dead bushes and trees very quickly.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Elinda wrote:
Do you think people's greed will allow this sort of concept to work - as intended?
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
I'm skeptical of it working but why not give it a go. Worst case scenario, you have a park without berries to eat.
I think they should release wild pigs and deer and make it a hunter/forager food forest. I wonder how long it takes for someone to eat some free-growing toxic mushrooms and sue the city.
I think they should release wild pigs and deer and make it a hunter/forager food forest. I wonder how long it takes for someone to eat some free-growing toxic mushrooms and sue the city.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I adore the idea, but expect it to crash and burn quickly.
My money is on crash and burn. Nothing against using money to improve a local park, but there's not a lot of stuff that really grows well up there. If they're really hinging on this:
The area southwest of the Park as it stands now is sloped and covered in grass but offers exceptional sun exposure. The suns exposure and angle of the slope allows us to grow a large variety of plants and stretch our ability to grow foods from other climate zones.
I'm afraid they're going to be sorely disappointed. Cheaper to just let the blackberries take over and cut a couple of paths through them.
Quote:
The area southwest of the Park as it stands now is sloped and covered in grass but offers exceptional sun exposure. The suns exposure and angle of the slope allows us to grow a large variety of plants and stretch our ability to grow foods from other climate zones.
I'm afraid they're going to be sorely disappointed. Cheaper to just let the blackberries take over and cut a couple of paths through them.
That monster in the mirror, he just might be you. -Grover
Seattle is a USDA Climate zone 8b. That's the same zone as you find in central Texas, southern Georgia, north Florida, etc. That's not to say the climate itself is exactly the same (obviously its not) but you should find relatively the same plant hardiness and be able to grow all manners of stuff.
Chicago is a 6a/5b and there's all sorts of edible native stuff that grows in this zone. Seattle should have no trouble finding suitable plants.
Chicago is a 6a/5b and there's all sorts of edible native stuff that grows in this zone. Seattle should have no trouble finding suitable plants.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
someproteinguy wrote:
My money is on crash and burn. Nothing against using money to improve a local park, but there's not a lot of stuff that really grows well up there. If they're really hinging on this:
The area southwest of the Park as it stands now is sloped and covered in grass but offers exceptional sun exposure. The suns exposure and angle of the slope allows us to grow a large variety of plants and stretch our ability to grow foods from other climate zones.
I'm afraid they're going to be sorely disappointed. Cheaper to just let the blackberries take over and cut a couple of paths through them.
Quote:
The area southwest of the Park as it stands now is sloped and covered in grass but offers exceptional sun exposure. The suns exposure and angle of the slope allows us to grow a large variety of plants and stretch our ability to grow foods from other climate zones.
I'm afraid they're going to be sorely disappointed. Cheaper to just let the blackberries take over and cut a couple of paths through them.
I think stuff will grow fine. It's just hard to see how the harvest can be dispersed fairly at all - unless of course people are just too lazy to pick their own fruit. It's a good experiment though. I mean it's gotta be better to have an exploited urban food forest than to have no urban food forest at all, right?
See how it goes and modify things as needed.
Alma wrote:
I lost my post
It's a novel idea. As a kid several large fields of wild plants and some trees would be about the same thing. I remember finding and eating, strawberry's, blueberry's, blackberry's, raspberry's, currants, cherries, peaches, apples, pears, grapes. Not to mention wild onions and other plants.
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I foresee dead bushes and trees very quickly.
We have a VERY small commons in Victoria (Spring Ridge Commons) and it actually works really well. Nothing has died off from overharvesting and people just take a bit here and there.
So it can work, yeah. I'm pretty sure it has been around for years without significant problems. Whenever I go there there are things to harvest.
Quote:
In 1999, local Permaculturalist Geoff Johnson with a group of volunteers began laying sheet mulch over the hard-packed gravel on this unused former school bus lot, and proceeded to start planting fruit trees, shrubs, and herbaceous plants according to a design they developed. Over time, some of these plantings have been more successful than others, with figs, goumi, medlars and the large damson plum near the centre doing especially well, while some other species have struggled due to the original poor soil conditions and warm, dry conditions on the site. In the recent past LifeCycles held the lease for Spring Ridge Commons. During this time, a Steering Committee was formed to steward the site and guide the Commons forward. Bi-weekly work parties were led by Commitee members- these work parties attracted many new and diverse volunteers and began to tackle the grasses and other invasives (like Morning Glory) which we growing rampantly on site. Weeding and sheet mulching were regular activities! We also built trellises for the loganberries, a composter, and extended and repaired the irrigation. In 2007, LifeCycles initiated a mapping and signage project to provide visitors to the commons with a map and information about the plants found there: when to harvest them, properties of the plants and how to enjoy them.
The lease has transferred now to Fernwood NRG with Transition Victoria Food Group taking the leadership in supporting the Commons. Monthly Sunday afternoon work parties are being organized with the possiblity of week day work parties being added over the summer if there's demand/energy for it. Fundraising + grant opportunities will be explored to revitalize the Commons plus a comprehensive long-term plan will also be developed for the space. For additional information, please visit: http://springridgecommons.ca
The lease has transferred now to Fernwood NRG with Transition Victoria Food Group taking the leadership in supporting the Commons. Monthly Sunday afternoon work parties are being organized with the possiblity of week day work parties being added over the summer if there's demand/energy for it. Fundraising + grant opportunities will be explored to revitalize the Commons plus a comprehensive long-term plan will also be developed for the space. For additional information, please visit: http://springridgecommons.ca
We actually have two commons. This is the other one. Both have been very successful. Maybe we're all just a bit hippy dippy here.
Edited, Mar 2nd 2012 12:00pm by Olorinus
Olorinus wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I foresee dead bushes and trees very quickly.
We have a VERY small commons in Victoria (Spring Ridge Commons) and it actually works really well.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Sounds like a great place for the homeless to set up camp and live off the land.
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
I agree with letting blackberries flourish there. Blackberries are like the kudzu of Seattle.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
Blackberries grow as big as bamboo forests here in Michigan outside my house. When I was young we'd get plants with 1 inch stalks and easily 6-7 feet tall.
We removed them from our back yard, and planted a garden. And there used to be equally large growths outside lining the utility trail outside the house. Unfortunately the electric company tore them all up. Now they don't grow as large. But when they were torn down, they made room for raspberry plants to sprout up, so there is a mix of blackberry, raspberry, and a few strawberry and dewberry plants along the ground. And the random wintergreen berries.
We removed them from our back yard, and planted a garden. And there used to be equally large growths outside lining the utility trail outside the house. Unfortunately the electric company tore them all up. Now they don't grow as large. But when they were torn down, they made room for raspberry plants to sprout up, so there is a mix of blackberry, raspberry, and a few strawberry and dewberry plants along the ground. And the random wintergreen berries.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Debalic wrote:
Sounds like a great place for the homeless to set up camp and live off the land.
Or someone plants some pot seeds and it promptly takes over the whole area.
Some people are like slinkies, they aren't really good for anything, but they still bring a smile to your face when you push them down the stairs.
I love the idea, kinda wish there was one around here . . .
The main thing I can see that will help it is I think the idea will attract a different type of person.
I think the majority of the greedy folk who would strip the area bare would be too lazy to bother. It may get a bunch of publicity from the start and attract a few of those types, but in the end I think the people who would stay would be ones who would help it thrive, planting their own things to share, etc.
I'm sure some of the more 'rare' items will still be hard to come by, but you'd think that in the end people would groom it like a community garden of sorts. The ones that care would be the majority of the users after the initial "wow" factor wears off.
I think the majority of the greedy folk who would strip the area bare would be too lazy to bother. It may get a bunch of publicity from the start and attract a few of those types, but in the end I think the people who would stay would be ones who would help it thrive, planting their own things to share, etc.
I'm sure some of the more 'rare' items will still be hard to come by, but you'd think that in the end people would groom it like a community garden of sorts. The ones that care would be the majority of the users after the initial "wow" factor wears off.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
TirithRR wrote:
I'm sure some of the more 'rare' items will still be hard to come by, but you'd think that in the end people would groom it like a community garden of sorts. The ones that care would be the majority of the users after the initial "wow" factor wears off.
What, are we foraging for crafting ingredients on Thundering Steppes or something?
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
What you have to remember about blackberries in the pacific northwest, is that our blackberries are actually a different species than anything you encounter in the rest of the country. While they do posess berries larger and arguably sweeter than those found everywhere else, the plants themselves are literally a nightmare. Strong sharp thorns everywhere, on the leaves, on the stalks, pretty much everything but the berries. New plants can generate from the smallest fragment of one you try to remove. The thorns will easily penitrate all forms of standard work gloves, and removeal is often performed by people wearing anti shark fine chainmail mesh gloves and ceramic body armor panels. The grow insanely fast. In one season they can overwhelm a house. If you kill them before they drop berries, you have a chance. If they drop berries, next year you have a plant mass a thousand times more dense, that will keep regenerating until the end of time. Burning them just pisses them off. Chemicals act as fertalizer. Ice makes them grow faster. 8 or 9 removal specialists go missing in blackberry patches every year, never to be seen again. Sometimes, in the dead of winter nights, you can hear them screaming. We tried nuking them once. After that, the military largely abandoned the multi billion dollar nuclear facility hanford...
Someone really should figure out a way to turn them into biofuel, they would have an unlimited supply of raw material. Lucky for the rest of you they need a particularily cold, wet climate to thrive. Otherwise I'm sure they would have covered the earth by now. The theory is that our blackberries are actually a hybrid cross with Salmonberries, which are also found throughout the area.
If Blackberry plants ever become sentient, we're all *******
Someone really should figure out a way to turn them into biofuel, they would have an unlimited supply of raw material. Lucky for the rest of you they need a particularily cold, wet climate to thrive. Otherwise I'm sure they would have covered the earth by now. The theory is that our blackberries are actually a hybrid cross with Salmonberries, which are also found throughout the area.
If Blackberry plants ever become sentient, we're all *******
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Think I pretty much covered it with the kudzu remark, frankly.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
There used to be a rather large community garden not too far from my house. It's now a baseball field.
Never regret.To regret is to assume.
I had to look up what Kudzu is.
Dread Lörd Kaolian wrote:
What you have to remember about blackberries in the pacific northwest, is that our blackberries are actually a different species than anything you encounter in the rest of the country. While they do posess berries larger and arguably sweeter than those found everywhere else, the plants themselves are literally a nightmare. Strong sharp thorns everywhere, on the leaves, on the stalks, pretty much everything but the berries. New plants can generate from the smallest fragment of one you try to remove. The thorns will easily penitrate all forms of standard work gloves, and removeal is often performed by people wearing anti shark fine chainmail mesh gloves and ceramic body armor panels. The grow insanely fast. In one season they can overwhelm a house. If you kill them before they drop berries, you have a chance. If they drop berries, next year you have a plant mass a thousand times more dense, that will keep regenerating until the end of time. Burning them just pisses them off. Chemicals act as fertalizer. Ice makes them grow faster. 8 or 9 removal specialists go missing in blackberry patches every year, never to be seen again. Sometimes, in the dead of winter nights, you can hear them screaming. We tried nuking them once. After that, the military largely abandoned the multi billion dollar nuclear facility hanford...
Someone really should figure out a way to turn them into biofuel, they would have an unlimited supply of raw material. Lucky for the rest of you they need a particularily cold, wet climate to thrive. Otherwise I'm sure they would have covered the earth by now. The theory is that our blackberries are actually a hybrid cross with Salmonberries, which are also found throughout the area.
If Blackberry plants ever become sentient, we're all @#%^ed.
Someone really should figure out a way to turn them into biofuel, they would have an unlimited supply of raw material. Lucky for the rest of you they need a particularily cold, wet climate to thrive. Otherwise I'm sure they would have covered the earth by now. The theory is that our blackberries are actually a hybrid cross with Salmonberries, which are also found throughout the area.
If Blackberry plants ever become sentient, we're all @#%^ed.
I don't know if you are describing blackberry plants from the Northwest or not, but that description describes pretty well the blackberry plants here in Michigan. If left to their own they will spread like wildfire.
Can't sleep, clown will eat me.
Our blackberry vines eat kudzu for breakfast...
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...And STILL can't wipe it out.
In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.
It's an interesting social experiment. I think it could work. I mean, how many berries can one person really collect, horde, and use before they just get bored? Also, foraging is a pretty foreign concept to most of us today. It might go underutilized at first, even, and as it eventually catches on people might respect it. It really could go either way.
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