The gbaji conundrumFollow

This. I'm not talking about what you wear or where you go. I'm talking about making smart choices when in social settings. Most date rape scenarios follow a pattern where the woman says "yes" about a half dozen times to different things before she ends out alone in a bedroom half undressed with the guy she then says "no" to. Even ignoring the question of what was actually said or done when it was just the two of them, we can correctly say that there were numerous things she could have done to avoid getting into that situation in the first place.


I also happen to believe that pushing the "press charges after the fact" side of the issue sends mixed messages. You're essentially teaching young women that they *should* expect to be perfectly safe even if they are passed out drunk, half dressed, in the bedroom of a guy she just met a couple hours ago and has been dirty dancing with. Sure. In a perfect world, we should expect every guy to be a perfect gentleman in any and all situations. Unfortunately, we don't live in that world.

We should be teaching young women to assume that they are *not* safe in that situation, and that they should take every precaution to not end out there. We should be teaching young women to make their own sexual choices on their own terms, and to not ever adopt a "wait and see how I feel later" approach. The guys who victimize women look for that. They know that they can take advantage of that and get that woman to take one step after another until she ends out somewhere she never wanted to be in the first place. And no amount of teaching women to press charges after the fact prevents this, and in the overwhelming number of cases, it doesn't help after the fact either.


I'll also disagree with the idea that people aren't embarrassed about other forms of crime. Date rape (aside from the obvious difference) is very similar to people who are scammed. Most people are very embarrassed when they get taken by a scam artist and often don't come forward in those cases either. It's the same sort of methodology as well. The scam artist looks for an easy mark. This is someone who seems willing to take that first step, then a second, then a third, etc, without stopping to think where it's all leading. People get scammed because they don't set a firm stopping point ahead of time. They don't say "At no point am I going to hand this person any cash". And for that reason, when the scammer asks them to hand them cash, they do it. Similarly, date rape victims didn't put a firm stopping point in their mind. They didn't start the evening saying "At no point am I going to kiss a guy", or "At no point am I going to take anyone home, or let them take me to their place", or even "I will only have 3 drinks this evening".


In the overwhelming majority of date rape cases, the woman involved said "yes" many times before saying "no". Perhaps instead of just teaching people that "no means no", we should teach people when they should be saying no?

Why? Saying that it's a good idea for a woman to take some precautions when she goes out so as to avoid ending out a victim? How the hell is that "disgusting"?

By blaming the woman. Which is what you did in every paragraph of your overlong post.

There's a difference between placing blame and suggesting caution. WTF? So if I advise you to lock your car doors, I'm blaming you if your car is stolen? If I suggest it's a bad idea to walk alone through a bad part of town late at night, I'm blaming you?

Why is it, that on this one issue, some people interpret any suggestion of taking steps to avoid becoming a victim as "blame". What's funny (not really) is that what you're doing is proving my point. It's because of this mentality that any suggestion that women can and should take precautions is equated with placing blame and rejected (angrily) that we end out sending exactly the mixed signals I was talking about earlier.

The assumption of date rape is that there are guys who aren't going to take "no" for an answer once they've had dinner, gone to the movie, ate popcorn, had drinks, invited her back to his place, and starts making his moves. So let's cut the crap and stop pretending that this is about confusing anyone. Given that this is the assumption involved, isn't it ridiculous to fight so hard to argue that a woman should always be perfectly safe if she does all those things and then goes back to his place?

Basically what you've said, gbaji, is that women should be taught not to kiss, make out, have any alcohol, or be alone with a man if she doesn't intend to have sex with him. You've said that, instead of teaching that no means no, teach a woman when to say no.

Yup. Like say "no" when the guy asks you to come with him, alone, to his place after a night of drinking and dancing and making out unless you actually want to have sex with him. Like I said, in an ideal perfect world, he should be a gentleman and accept that you just want to hang out and play parchisee or read poetry or something. But we don't live in that world.

No, that's not ridiculous. It is ridiculous to say that a woman owes a man sex.

It is ridiculous to suggest that a man cannot control himself from raping a woman if he pays for her dinner, popcorn, and takes her back to his place.

Good lord, you're disgusting.

And in a perfect world, a woman doesn't change her mind at the last minute. Which happens.

Lord you're such a pig.

So you're saying that the world is less perfect because women do this? OMG! You're blaming a woman for being raped! You're so disgusting!!!!

You're completely turned around on this issue Belk. Stop knee-jerk responding and think about the issue.

I'm turned around because I don't think that a woman should be blamed for going to a man's house and having a night cap then getting raped...?

Let me be clear: I have never said that a woman shouldn't be cautious. Of course they should.

But you're suggesting that a woman practically cloister herself lest she be raped.

Um... We're talking about date rape, right? Do I really have to spell this out for you?