Kavekk wrote:
I'm not sure if ThiefX is actually capable of winning an argument, but I don't think he's come closer than this.
Obviously, more people = more jobs as a general rule, but this:
is a pretty bold and unsubstantiated claim, especially seeing as there are far more people than people of working age and ability, and yet still there are not ehnough jobs for people able to work.
I mean, damn, I'm not anti-immigration in any way, but this argument is abysmal. The number of jobs is determiend by a very complex mixture of social, technological and economic factors. It is not a one to one relationship with the population.
I'm talking about Ari's post, here, not Jophiel's or iddigory's.
Obviously, more people = more jobs as a general rule, but this:
Quote:
Every one new person in the nation (like an immigrant, legal or illegal) creates one new job in the nation. So illegal immigrants are job neutral. There may be other problems with additional population, and not having control of your border, but illegals "stealing our jobs" aren't one of them.
is a pretty bold and unsubstantiated claim, especially seeing as there are far more people than people of working age and ability, and yet still there are not ehnough jobs for people able to work.
I mean, damn, I'm not anti-immigration in any way, but this argument is abysmal. The number of jobs is determiend by a very complex mixture of social, technological and economic factors. It is not a one to one relationship with the population.
I'm talking about Ari's post, here, not Jophiel's or iddigory's.
Going to agree with this 100%. It's a pretty weak argument. As Kavekk says, there are a host of factors involved with employment. It just seems unlikely at its face that simply adding more people will magically add more jobs. And yes, I get the demand side argument you also made, but that's just not going to be enough to ensure that 1 to 1 job to immigrant relationship, especially as Joph correctly points out to ensure one for the immigrant where he/she is. If that were the case, why do we bother restricting immigration at all? In fact, one can argue that the reason immigration does not outstrip job growth is because we limit immigration.
Illegal immigration absolutely undermines that. It also conceals the real effects of illegal immigration on employment since quite often both the employment and lack of employment are "off the books". There are legitimate arguments to make with regards to lower cost labor helping producers earn more profits (and thus expand faster and hire more people down the line) and decreasing the costs of the resulting goods. But I think that making such a broad assumption is well outside of the normal scope of an immigration discussion.
You're free to bring it in-scope if you wish (that appears to be your objective), but then you really need to have some kind of evidence and a better argument than simply insisting that it's true.