lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
You can always accuse someone you don't agree with of doing this. It's kinda meaningless.
Coming from someone who disagrees with the positions themselves, you'll have to forgive me for not putting much weight on this claim.
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Your calling it meaningless is just your denial to your own behavior, which is expected. You don't want to outright admit you're a zealot. Not many people do.
It is meaningless. Anyone can make that exact claim at any time in any direction of any issue without any support at all. That's why it's meaningless. It's like arguing that you are right because you are right. In what universe do you actually believe this to be a good argument?
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gbaji wrote:
And what about not arguing that your guy is right but instead arguing that the other guy was wrong for failing to stand up to you guy and prevent a disaster?
Conceding the point would have involved him saying that Frank was wrong for doing what he did, and does bear some responsibility for the result. Here. I'll even meet him halfway. I do think the GOP was wrong for not pushing the issue. And I do think they bear some responsibility for failing to do so. I just happen to believe that the guy they failed to stand up to should bear more responsibility. He's the one who actually took the wrong position rather than the one who just failed to press his position hard enough.
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The guys you're defending, however, were in a position to do so, but they chose not to. And the reason you gave was they didn't want the protestors. That's much more detestable behavior.
More detestable than the guy who tossed the protest-spurring rhetoric at them in the first place? I guess I just don't understand your reasoning here.
Yes. They chose not to risk further political damage by pushing the issue in the face of such a strong public condemnation of their actions. That turned out to be a mistake. However, Frank and the Democrats choose to use that method in this case. They decided that preventing an investigation into the mortgage bundling process was worth stirring up calls of racism and poor-hating.
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According to you, they knew it was wrong but chose not to do anything about it.
Er? They were investigating to determine if there was something dangerous going on. Frank threw a fit and attacked them in the public eye for it. They backed down on the investigation. They made a decision that the investigation wasn't worth the political backlash. At the time, they didn't know for sure that there really was a danger, or how great the danger was. Remember, at this point, Freddie and Fanny were still insisting even under oath that everything was fine. The GOP wasn't sure they were telling the truth and wanted to investigate and open up the books to find out for themselves. Frank cut them off with his public diatribe against them.
Do you remember when this happened? I do. The media was buzzing with this. Frank was cheered by liberals all over the place. Hell. It wouldn't surprise me if we didn't have a thread about it here and Joph was one of the ones agreeing with Frank at the time and cheering him as well. I certainly remember that Stewart and Maher had field days with it. The story of the week was "GOP tried to ***** over poor minority folks and the hero Barney Frank calls them on it".
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That makes them an accessory to the behavior.
To what? Backing off on an investigation?
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He's saying "Okay, he did bad. Next topic"...
Who? Joph? Could you please quote where he even came close to a written acknowledgment that Frank did anything wrong?
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...while you're going out of your way of trying to detach responsibility from your group's lack of action to prevent it from happening.
Wow. Just... wow. You are completely backwards. Take the blinders off.
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I'd more respect you if you'd have said something like "Yeah, okay, the Republicans could have grown a pair and stood up for what they believed," but instead you're trying to say standing up for your beliefs is irrelevant.
Holy hell! Like this:
Me, 4 posts ago wrote:
Don't get me wrong. I do blame the GOP for not standing up to the Dems back then with regard to the rising danger of the sub-prime loans in the system.
Maybe if you stopped slobbering all over Joph for half a second and paid attention to what was actually being said, you'd avoid making yourself look like such a tool.