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#1 Aug 05 2011 at 9:32 AM Rating: Excellent
With all the news about this Warren Jeffs guy and his proclivities for fucking little girls, it's gotten me thinking about the whole Polygamy thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "for" marrying and ******** little kids. But if it's consenting adults, I don't see the issue.

But that's not really what I was thinking about. Polygamy is illegal. But my question is: How can they charge you for anything? If, say, my husband and I were married and we decided to bring in a roommate to help pay the bills, then something happened and the three of us decided to share my husband, or share me, or whatever, how can that be illegal...? How could we be charged? I mean, it's not illegal to have an "open marriage," so what's the difference? Is it just that you can't have a legal marriage with more than two people, or can you seriously be arrested if three adults are living in one house, to of which are married, and all three are fucking one another?
#2 Aug 05 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Good
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Probably something to do with tax fraud.
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#3 Aug 05 2011 at 9:38 AM Rating: Good
Nilatai wrote:
Probably something to do with tax fraud.


How so?
#4 Aug 05 2011 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
With all the news about this Warren Jeffs guy and his proclivities for fucking little girls, it's gotten me thinking about the whole Polygamy thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "for" marrying and ******** little kids. But if it's consenting adults, I don't see the issue.

But that's not really what I was thinking about. Polygamy is illegal. But my question is: How can they charge you for anything? If, say, my husband and I were married and we decided to bring in a roommate to help pay the bills, then something happened and the three of us decided to share my husband, or share me, or whatever, how can that be illegal...? How could we be charged? I mean, it's not illegal to have an "open marriage," so what's the difference? Is it just that you can't have a legal marriage with more than two people, or can you seriously be arrested if three adults are living in one house, to of which are married, and all three are fucking one another?

Legally a family unit run by more than two people could be a nightmare - who has what responsibilities and/or receives the benefits, who gets to keep the house, the car, the kids, etc, etc. The more husbands and/or wives you add into the mix the more confusing it all becomes.

Honestly, I can't say I'd ever argue against legalizing polygamy. It would have to be done, though, to accommodate all the inherent legalities.


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#5 Aug 05 2011 at 9:44 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
With all the news about this Warren Jeffs guy and his proclivities for fucking little girls, it's gotten me thinking about the whole Polygamy thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "for" marrying and ******** little kids. But if it's consenting adults, I don't see the issue.

But that's not really what I was thinking about. Polygamy is illegal. But my question is: How can they charge you for anything? If, say, my husband and I were married and we decided to bring in a roommate to help pay the bills, then something happened and the three of us decided to share my husband, or share me, or whatever, how can that be illegal...? How could we be charged? I mean, it's not illegal to have an "open marriage," so what's the difference? Is it just that you can't have a legal marriage with more than two people, or can you seriously be arrested if three adults are living in one house, to of which are married, and all three are fucking one another?


It's more about the property issues. When 2 people enter int a marriage, you have an idea that in the event of a divorce, how the split of assets is going to be. It gets messy when more spouses are added into it. You could easily say that whoever puts into the marriage, financially, should be able to pro-rata get that out of the marriage in the event of a divorce. How do you address spouses who do not work versus the ones who do? What about financial support? Do all the spouses contribute? How do you value property buy-outs based on when spouses are entering into the marriage and exiting?

I see these types of issues come up in probated estates all the time and see how they'd be applied to polygamous marriage.
#6 Aug 05 2011 at 9:46 AM Rating: Excellent
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Two thoughts come to mind, and I don't know if either count...

1. Common-law marriage. In states that allow it, this means that by living together for X number of years and fulfilling the varying conditions, they would be considered married; but legally you can't marry more than one person at a time.

2. Taxes. Perhaps each wife is declaring themselves married to the husband, or are claiming various dependents for the children, or other such tomfoolery.

But yeah, really not sure.
#7 Aug 05 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Excellent
Property issues sound more like a personal problem, though. I mean, let's say the first person listed on the marriage certificate gets everything unless otherwise specified by a will. That seems easy enough.
#8 Aug 05 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
LockeColeMA wrote:
Two thoughts come to mind, and I don't know if either count...

1. Common-law marriage. In states that allow it, this means that by living together for X number of years and fulfilling the varying conditions, they would be considered married; but legally you can't marry more than one person at a time.

2. Taxes. Perhaps each wife is declaring themselves married to the husband, or are claiming various dependents for the children, or other such tomfoolery.

But yeah, really not sure.



1. I think common-law marriages aren't recognized so much anymore, but I could be wrong.

2. I don't know enough about taxes, honestly.

I guess mostly I'm wondering what they can do to three people, two of which are legally married, living together and sleeping together right now. Is that seriously illegal, and you can go to jail for having sex with what is basically a roommate when you're married?

Edit: who =/= two...

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 10:54am by Belkira
#9 Aug 05 2011 at 9:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
1. Common-law marriage. In states that allow it, this means that by living together for X number of years and fulfilling the varying conditions, they would be considered married; but legally you can't marry more than one person at a time.

All states that still allow for common-law marriage these days have it as an opt-in. If you and your partner live together for X years, you can declare yourselves married but the state can not declare it for you. But, yeah, in the case of polygamy you're probably presenting your various cohabitants as spouses.

I've no idea how it shook out but I remember hearing about legal issues with that polygamy reality show. Since the man and the women were all considering each other (man-woman) as spouses and presenting themselves as such, it would be enough to trigger bigamy laws under the assumption of a common-law marriage.

If you just all lived and humped together with no declaration of marriage, I don't imagine there's much they could do aside from getting Family Services potentially involved if there's kids in the picture.

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 11:01am by Jophiel
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#10 Aug 05 2011 at 9:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
1. Common-law marriage. In states that allow it, this means that by living together for X number of years and fulfilling the varying conditions, they would be considered married; but legally you can't marry more than one person at a time.

All states that still allow for common-law marriage these days have it as an opt-in. If you and your partner live together for X years, you can declare yourselves married but the state can not declare it for you.

Right, I meant this is what they might be doing. Rather than going down to the town clerk, who presumably knows who the local polygamists are, they just let the state now that they're married... even if they already married someone else.

I believe that breaks bigamy laws though, not necessarily polygamist laws. So, again, guessing it has to do with taxes and what you report to the government in some way.
#11 Aug 05 2011 at 10:00 AM Rating: Excellent
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Yeah, I edited. I meant to post more and hit it too soon.
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#12 Aug 05 2011 at 10:02 AM Rating: Good
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Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Probably something to do with tax fraud.


How so?

I'm just speculating, but has our opponents to SSM like to bring up, marriage is all about tax breaks and other benefits. The reason polygamy is illegal is probably to avoid abusing those systems.

Like I said, speculations so don't quote me or anything.


Also Christianity doesn't like polygamy, that's probably more to do with the reason for it being illegal than anything else.
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#13 Aug 05 2011 at 10:03 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Yeah, I edited. I meant to post more and hit it too soon.
Mainstream liberal media, always putting out false information and then changing it afterwards in an attempt to keep MURKA dazed and confused. Filth, I tells you. Filth.
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#14 Aug 05 2011 at 10:04 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
1. Common-law marriage. In states that allow it, this means that by living together for X number of years and fulfilling the varying conditions, they would be considered married; but legally you can't marry more than one person at a time.

All states that still allow for common-law marriage these days have it as an opt-in. If you and your partner live together for X years, you can declare yourselves married but the state can not declare it for you. But, yeah, in the case of polygamy you're probably presenting your various cohabitants as spouses.

I've no idea how it shook out but I remember hearing about legal issues with that polygamy reality show. Since the man and the women were all considering each other (man-woman) as spouses and presenting themselves as such, it would be enough to trigger bigamy laws under the assumption of a common-law marriage.

If you just all lived and humped together with no declaration of marriage, I don't imagine there's much they could do aside from getting Family Services potentially involved if there's kids in the picture.

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 11:01am by Jophiel

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#15 Aug 05 2011 at 10:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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Nilatai wrote:
Also Christianity doesn't like polygamy, that's probably more to do with the reason for it being illegal than anything else.

That's probably the original reason. These days, there's a lack of any credible movement to change things and the question of the legalistic nightmare if it were changed.
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#16 Aug 05 2011 at 10:13 AM Rating: Good
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
With all the news about this Warren Jeffs guy and his proclivities for fucking little girls, it's gotten me thinking about the whole Polygamy thing. Don't get me wrong, I'm not "for" marrying and ******** little kids. But if it's consenting adults, I don't see the issue.

But that's not really what I was thinking about. Polygamy is illegal. But my question is: How can they charge you for anything? If, say, my husband and I were married and we decided to bring in a roommate to help pay the bills, then something happened and the three of us decided to share my husband, or share me, or whatever, how can that be illegal...? How could we be charged? I mean, it's not illegal to have an "open marriage," so what's the difference? Is it just that you can't have a legal marriage with more than two people, or can you seriously be arrested if three adults are living in one house, to of which are married, and all three are fucking one another?


In most situations that are for multiple wives, the husband is only legally married to one wife and the others are married through an unofficial ceremony. You see this more often in certain religions (and cults). In their eyes (and they eyes of their God) they are all married to the same man, but technically it is a husband and wife who are ******* a bunch of other women!
#17 Aug 05 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Excellent
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"This looks a lot like polygamy ..."
"No Officer, it's a gang bang. It just hasn't started yet."
"Oh, carry on then."
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#18 Aug 05 2011 at 10:16 AM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Also Christianity doesn't like polygamy, that's probably more to do with the reason for it being illegal than anything else.

That's probably the original reason. These days, there's a lack of any credible movement to change things and the question of the legalistic nightmare if it were changed.

That's what I thought. Honestly I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to marry more than one person. It's hard enough making one other person happy.
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#19 Aug 05 2011 at 10:21 AM Rating: Good
Nilatai wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Also Christianity doesn't like polygamy, that's probably more to do with the reason for it being illegal than anything else.

That's probably the original reason. These days, there's a lack of any credible movement to change things and the question of the legalistic nightmare if it were changed.

That's what I thought. Honestly I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to marry more than one person. It's hard enough making one other person happy.


The husband isn't concerned about making his wives happy, he is only concerned with making himself happy. By having multiple wives, he has different woman to meet his different needs, therefore keeping himself happy.
#20 Aug 05 2011 at 10:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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Elspetta wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Also Christianity doesn't like polygamy, that's probably more to do with the reason for it being illegal than anything else.

That's probably the original reason. These days, there's a lack of any credible movement to change things and the question of the legalistic nightmare if it were changed.

That's what I thought. Honestly I can't think of a reason why anyone would want to marry more than one person. It's hard enough making one other person happy.


The husband isn't concerned about making his wives happy, he is only concerned with making himself happy. By having multiple wives, he has different woman to meet his different needs, therefore keeping himself happy.

I suppose I was just raised differently then. My only English grandparent was my Granddad. An old school English gentleman. He insisted on treating women properly, yet he was still fairly open minded when it came to more modern things like women in the workplace. A very strange combination, really.
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#21 Aug 05 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Kinda surprised by the unenlightened view of polyamory here. People have needs and wants, and when they feel that bringing another person into the relationship more fully satisfies those needs and wants, they do it if their other partner(s) consent. At their core, polyamorous relationships are no different than monoamorous ones besides the acknowledgement by those involved that it's normal, acceptable, and healthy to form relationships with the people you need to in order to feel complete and satisfied. It's based on an acceptance of the idea that it's unrealistic for two people to mutually provide that for one another all on their own.

Legally it's only a matter of abusing the system. The government generally can't/won't do anything if people are living as in a polygamy as long as their paperwork is legit.

Personally I'm a monogamous kinda guy, but I could imagine adding someone else to the mix if they meshed really well.
#22 Aug 05 2011 at 11:08 AM Rating: Good
Quote:
You could easily say that whoever puts into the marriage, financially, should be able to pro-rata get that out of the marriage in the event of a divorce.


Well, theoretically. There tends not to be much stomach for things like that in anything but a commercial context, though. For example, shares in a co-habited home aren't determined based on the doctrine of resulting trusts.
#23 Aug 05 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kachi wrote:
Kinda surprised by the unenlightened view of polyamory here.

There hasn't been much discussion of polyamory at all (two people?). It's mainly been about polygamy, which is a legal matter.
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#24 Aug 05 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Excellent
Jophiel wrote:
Kachi wrote:
Kinda surprised by the unenlightened view of polyamory here.

There hasn't been much discussion of polyamory at all (two people?). It's mainly been about polygamy, which is a legal matter.


I get the feeling he was talking more about Elspetta's view that polygamy is only to make the man happy and isn't about the women in the relationship at all.

I, personally, would never be able to "share" my husband with another woman, and therefore would not ask that my husband ever "share" me with another man. I'd get too jealous. But if that's what other people want/need/desire to be happy, I don't see why it should be an issue.

Edited, Aug 5th 2011 12:30pm by Belkira
#25 Aug 05 2011 at 11:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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This thread makes me sad that I canceled Netflix because I didn't get to finish all of Big Love. Smiley: frown
#26 Aug 05 2011 at 11:43 AM Rating: Excellent
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Did you cancel your BitTorrent?

Not that I'd condone such a thing. I'm just asking if you've canceled it.
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