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The 'Boro Mosque is a violation of church and state?Follow

#1 Jul 18 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
Well, according to Herman Cain it is, anyway.

Quote:
Presidential hopeful Herman Cain on Sunday sided with communities that want to ban mosques, saying Americans have a right to oppose the construction of places of Islamic worship.

During a discussion on "Fox News Sunday" of a proposed mosque in Murfreesboro, Tenn. that has drawn protests, legal challenges and even arson, host Chris Wallace asked the former Godfather's Pizza CEO his feelings about communities that wish to ban mosques.

"Yes, they have the right to do that," Cain replied.

Last week, Cain, who is Christian, referred to the planned Murfreesboro mosque as an "infringement and an abuse of our freedom of religion" during interviews with reporters at a campaign stop in Murfreesboro. There, the Islamic Center of Murfreesboro is planning to build a new, larger facility to accommodate its growing congregation.

Cain and others believe leaders at this mosque are trying to force Islamic extremism upon the community. "I don't agree with what's happening because this isn't an innocent mosque," Cain said.

Cain repeated that argument Sunday, adding during his Fox interview that he's generally opposed to Islam.

"Our Constitution guarantees separation of church and state. Islam combines church and state," Cain said Sunday. "They're objecting to the fact that Islam is both a religion and a set of laws," Cain said of the opponents.

When asked if his beliefs constitute discrimination, Cain disagreed, saying: "I am willing to take a harder look at people that might be terrorists. That's what I'm saying."

You can watch Cain's Fox News Sunday interview below, via Mediaite:

Cain provoked questions about discrimination earlier this year when he said that he would not be comfortable appointing a Muslim to his cabinet or as a federal judge if elected.

Cain told Fox host Glenn Beck in June that he would appoint Muslims who pledged loyalty to the U.S. Constitution--and conceded that we would not require the same pledge from believers who have faced past charges of divided loyalties in U.S. politics, such as Catholics.


How ridiculous. Though I'm not terribly surprised Varus loves this guy, I guess.
#2 Jul 18 2011 at 12:41 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quick responses from the right:

1. Church and state applies to federal government, not state governments. Local communities should be free to ban things they don't approve of.
2. If you look at his statements overall, he's just saying that Islam is inherently political and necessarily combines the ideas of church and state. As this is unconstitutional, Islam is always wrong.
3. MUSLIMS R TEH DEBIL!!!!!

Many comments seem to jump straight to number three.
#3 Jul 18 2011 at 12:43 PM Rating: Excellent
LockeColeMA wrote:
1. Church and state applies to federal government, not state governments. Local communities should be free to ban things they don't approve of.


He's saying that if the mosque is allowed to be built, it's a violation of church and state because Islam is "both a religion and a set of laws."

It'd the biggest bunch of hooey I've ever heard.
#4 Jul 18 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Excellent
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So he's saying Christianity isn't a set of laws as well as a religion? I guess we'll be seeing him for in favour of the next same sex marriage bill, then! Excellent.
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#5 Jul 18 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Excellent
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Copypasta wrote:
Last week, Cain, who is Christian, referred to the planned Murfreesboro mosque as an "infringement and an abuse of our freedom of religion" during interviews with reporters at a campaign stop in Murfreesboro.
Ha ha. YOU CAN'T HAS YOUR RELIGIOUS BUILDING BECAUSE IT IS AGAINST MY RELIGION!
more Copypasta wrote:
They're objecting to the fact that Islam is both a religion and a set of laws,
I guess we're pretending there aren't rules in all other religious beliefs here.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 2:47pm by lolgaxe
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#6 Jul 18 2011 at 12:47 PM Rating: Good
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Wasn't America built mainly by immigrants seeking religious freedom? It's sad to see people fighting against Mosque's being built.
#7 Jul 18 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
How ridiculous. Though I'm not terribly surprised Varus loves this guy, I guess.

What's ridiculous is that he's wrong because of a broadened set of powers, where in the United States Supreme Court believes it has jurisdiction over local matters not involving powers specifically enumerated the Federal Government. A community should be able to zone the land however they choose. If they choose to allow no further "church" building, so be it. If they choose not to allow "worship/prayer services" on a land use permit, so be it. It is the beauty of local control. The community should be allowed to set its own rules with regard to land use, and a lot of other things. If community members don't agree, they can vote to change it or move.
#8 Jul 18 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Decent
theratio wrote:
Wasn't America built mainly by immigrants seeking religious freedom? It's sad to see people fighting against Mosque's being built.

Back in your hole, junior. Grown folks is talkin'.
#9 Jul 18 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Default
lolgaxe wrote:
Quote:
They're objecting to the fact that Islam is both a religion and a set of laws,

I guess we're pretending there aren't rules in all other religious beliefs here.

I guess you're pretending that rules of behavior in other religions somehow compare with Sharia Law.
#10REDACTED, Posted: Jul 18 2011 at 12:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) "would not require the same pledge from believers who have faced past charges of divided loyalties in U.S. politics, such as Catholics"
#11 Jul 18 2011 at 12:55 PM Rating: Excellent
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Would be nice if Christians pretended the ten commandments meant something to them like Islam does with Sharia.
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#12 Jul 18 2011 at 1:04 PM Rating: Good
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Why would anyone base a set of laws upon the Ten Commandments? The three on theft, murder and perjury, but the other seven are largely irrelevant. I mean, the first three are just about how great god is and how not to **** him off for fuck sake.
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Solrain wrote:
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#13 Jul 18 2011 at 1:05 PM Rating: Excellent
Nilatai wrote:
Why would anyone base a set of laws upon the Ten Commandments? The three on theft, murder and perjury, but the other seven are largely irrelevant. I mean, the first three are just about how great god is and how not to **** him off for fuck sake.


People actually believe (and have posted on this site, matter of fact) that our laws in the US are based on the commandments.

People are stupid.
#14REDACTED, Posted: Jul 18 2011 at 1:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Cool story, but Christianity is one of, if not the, largest influences on our laws. Given the extent, it's not that far-fetched to make such a claim. The US isn't secular and never was. I'm not saying I support it, but that's just how it is.
#15 Jul 18 2011 at 1:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
A community should be able to zone the land however they choose. If they choose to allow no further "church" building, so be it. If they choose not to allow "worship/prayer services" on a land use permit, so be it.

This particular land is already zoned to allow religious use. So I don't see the issue from that angle.
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#16 Jul 18 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Excellent
nonwto wrote:
Cool story, but Christianity is one of, if not the, largest influences on our laws. Given the extent, it's not that far-fetched to make such a claim. The US isn't secular and never was. I'm not saying I support it, but that's just how it is.


Smiley: dubious
#17 Jul 18 2011 at 1:58 PM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Why would anyone base a set of laws upon the Ten Commandments? The three on theft, murder and perjury, but the other seven are largely irrelevant. I mean, the first three are just about how great god is and how not to **** him off for fuck sake.


People actually believe (and have posted on this site, matter of fact) that our laws in the US are based on the commandments.

People are stupid.


Cool story, but Christianity is one of, if not the, largest influences on our laws. Given the extent, it's not that far-fetched to make such a claim. The US isn't secular and never was. I'm not saying I support it, but that's just how it is.

You're quite right to say it is influence by Christianity. However, it is post enlightenment Christianity. The core of western culture, after the renaissance. This is what Western civilisation as we know it today is based upon.

There are ideals within Christianity that are much older than the faith itself. The golden rule for example is supposed to be very old. There is a version of it in the analects of Confucius, circa 475 BCE.
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Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.

LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
#18 Jul 18 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Excellent
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nonwto wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
Nilatai wrote:
Why would anyone base a set of laws upon the Ten Commandments? The three on theft, murder and perjury, but the other seven are largely irrelevant. I mean, the first three are just about how great god is and how not to **** him off for fuck sake.


People actually believe (and have posted on this site, matter of fact) that our laws in the US are based on the commandments.

People are stupid.


Cool story, but Christianity is one of, if not the, largest influences on our laws. Given the extent, it's not that far-fetched to make such a claim. The US isn't secular and never was. I'm not saying I support it, but that's just how it is.

Quote:
People actually believe (and have posted on this site, matter of fact) that our laws in the US are based on the commandments.

People are stupid.
#19 Jul 18 2011 at 2:02 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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Sharia Law has the word "Law" in it and laws based on religion are bad unless they're Christian!
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#20 Jul 18 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
A community should be able to zone the land however they choose. If they choose to allow no further "church" building, so be it. If they choose not to allow "worship/prayer services" on a land use permit, so be it.

This particular land is already zoned to allow religious use. So I don't see the issue from that angle.

They should be able to re-zone to preclude it if they so choose, which is the issue, and the angle from which is arises.
#21 Jul 18 2011 at 2:15 PM Rating: Decent
bsphil wrote:
Sharia Law has the word "Law" in it and laws based on religion are bad unless they're Christian!

A pithy comment, how droll.
#22 Jul 18 2011 at 4:15 PM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
How ridiculous. Though I'm not terribly surprised Varus loves this guy, I guess.

What's ridiculous is that he's wrong because of a broadened set of powers, where in the United States Supreme Court believes it has jurisdiction over local matters not involving powers specifically enumerated the Federal Government. A community should be able to zone the land however they choose. If they choose to allow no further "church" building, so be it. If they choose not to allow "worship/prayer services" on a land use permit, so be it. It is the beauty of local control. The community should be allowed to set its own rules with regard to land use, and a lot of other things. If community members don't agree, they can vote to change it or move.
Oh so it's just a zoning issue?
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#23 Jul 18 2011 at 4:45 PM Rating: Excellent
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Elinda wrote:
Oh so it's just a zoning issue?


They have to come up with something that at least sounds good when compared to "Muslims are Terrorists!" chanting in the streets. The far right gets outraged over everything non-Christian, and the not-so-far-right then has to come up with reasons why their outrage is "legitimate" so they won't lose what little of the middle they still have.
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#24 Jul 18 2011 at 4:51 PM Rating: Default
Elinda wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira the Tulip wrote:
How ridiculous. Though I'm not terribly surprised Varus loves this guy, I guess.

What's ridiculous is that he's wrong because of a broadened set of powers, where in the United States Supreme Court believes it has jurisdiction over local matters not involving powers specifically enumerated the Federal Government. A community should be able to zone the land however they choose. If they choose to allow no further "church" building, so be it. If they choose not to allow "worship/prayer services" on a land use permit, so be it. It is the beauty of local control. The community should be allowed to set its own rules with regard to land use, and a lot of other things. If community members don't agree, they can vote to change it or move.
Oh so it's just a zoning issue?

That's how they do it with adult entertainment venues. I can't see why a mosque or church or temple or religious school would be any different.

EDIT: And in answer to the inevitable "You put mosques in the same category as strip clubs?!?" question, absolutely. Both are equally seedy as far as I'm concerned, and I am hardly what you'd call a Christian.

Edited, Jul 18th 2011 5:53pm by MoebiusLord
#25 Jul 18 2011 at 5:27 PM Rating: Excellent
MoebiusLord wrote:
EDIT: And in answer to the inevitable "You put mosques in the same category as strip clubs?!?" question, absolutely. Both are equally seedy as far as I'm concerned, and I am hardly what you'd call a Christian.


Maybe not, but you don't have to be Christian to be full of ****.
#26 Jul 18 2011 at 5:31 PM Rating: Decent
BrownDuck wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
EDIT: And in answer to the inevitable "You put mosques in the same category as strip clubs?!?" question, absolutely. Both are equally seedy as far as I'm concerned, and I am hardly what you'd call a Christian.


Maybe not, but you don't have to be Christian to be full of sh*t.

Nor do you have to be much of anything to be a dumb-***, so you're still safe.
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