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Six Strikes on Internet PiracyFollow

#77REDACTED, Posted: Jul 09 2011 at 9:46 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Oh, lad. Piggybacking off the reputation of the board, are you? Think you're a regular Internet hard man, do you? Asking rhetorical questions, am I?
#78 Jul 09 2011 at 10:02 PM Rating: Decent
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Since it's become an issue, I thought I'd link what I found to be a fairly astute blog post on the subject by a copyright lawyer.


To further rehash, I don't see how you can say that it is objectively equivalent to theft in an ethical sense as there are differences between the two; whether these are enough to differentiate them surely depends on your own values.
#79 Jul 09 2011 at 10:07 PM Rating: Good
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Apparently Proof goes all Ye Olde English when he's cornered.
#80REDACTED, Posted: Jul 09 2011 at 10:10 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) How's that? I've never been very good with old English and I don't see any semblance to it in my post.
#81 Jul 09 2011 at 10:32 PM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Apparently Proof goes all Ye Olde English when he's cornered.


How's that? I've never been very good with old English and I don't see any semblance to it in my post.


It wasn't in reference to a single post.
#82 Jul 09 2011 at 10:43 PM Rating: Good
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...the argument goes, since the legal meaning of theft differs from the legal meaning of copyright infringement, any comparison between the two is invalid. By itself, this argument is barely worth refuting, but it has unfortunately been bolstered by the misuse of language from an otherwise inconsequential Supreme Court decision.


I wonder if non has read that article yet. Smiley: nod
#83REDACTED, Posted: Jul 09 2011 at 10:43 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Point out some specific examples, mate. Consider it a challenge if it gives you an incentive.
#84 Jul 10 2011 at 12:11 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Point out some specific examples, mate. Consider it a challenge if it gives you an incentive.


Why? I'm not here to prove anything to you.

Edited, Jul 10th 2011 2:12am by Eske
#85REDACTED, Posted: Jul 10 2011 at 12:52 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) In the spirit of the revolution?
#86 Jul 10 2011 at 2:58 AM Rating: Decent
I'd like to re-hash:
Shintasama wrote:
There needs to be a "godwin's law" for pointless semantics arguments.

He knows damn well he's wrong, semantics arguments are the last ditch efforts of weak, beaten minds. He's just trolling.

Quote:
The debate over the labels we give to copyright is interesting in an academic sense but largely meaningless in the real world. Creators often use words like "theft" to reflect how they feel about acts of infringement. Shifting the focus from the colloquial meaning of the word to the legal meaning accomplishes little more than arguing for the sake of argument, while misusing language from case law only forecloses a fuller understanding of the law.

and just because I thought it was interesting:
 
	             Stealing a physical copy 	      Stealing a digital copy 
Absolute              
Minimum 	     $0, no jail 	              $4,400 
 
Absolute 
Maximum              $100,000, 1 year jail 	      $3,400,000, 1 year jail, lawyer fees and costs 


Edited, Jul 10th 2011 5:22am by shintasama
#87 Jul 10 2011 at 3:29 AM Rating: Good
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He's just trolling at this point.


Indeed, but he is rather decent at trolling. Or maybe he's just too annoying to ignore. Kinda like a mosquito. It isn't going to kill you or beat you in a debate, but at some point you'll be compelled to respond to it.


He reminds me of when I was a kid and honestly thought a head full of facts, figures and formulas made me "smart". I can't even be mean to him, knowing the ***** slap life has in store for him.

Edited, Jul 10th 2011 5:32am by CoalHeart
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#88 Jul 10 2011 at 3:38 AM Rating: Excellent
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CoalHeart wrote:
Indeed, but he is rather decent at trolling.
Not really.
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#89 Jul 10 2011 at 3:42 AM Rating: Good
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It isn't going to kill you or beat you in a debate, but at some point you'll be compelled to respond to it.
For a bit longer at least, since he's a new troll and all. I'll eventually get bored of him and stop bothering to hit "expand post", or ignore threads after they reach a certain level of stupidity like I do with var/alma. Trolls can only be so entertaining harping on what the meaning of "is" is every post, he's going to have to do better at some point.
#90 Jul 10 2011 at 6:56 AM Rating: Excellent
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shintasama wrote:
and just because I thought it was interesting:
 
	             Stealing a physical copy 	      Stealing a digital copy 
Absolute              
Minimum 	     $0, no jail 	              $4,400 
 
Absolute 
Maximum              $100,000, 1 year jail 	      $3,400,000, 1 year jail, lawyer fees and costs 

When you're arrested and tried for petty theft, you somehow don't have to pay your lawyer?
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#91 Jul 10 2011 at 7:55 AM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
shintasama wrote:
and just because I thought it was interesting:
 
	             Stealing a physical copy 	      Stealing a digital copy 
Absolute              
Minimum 	     $0, no jail 	              $4,400 
 
Absolute 
Maximum              $100,000, 1 year jail 	      $3,400,000, 1 year jail, lawyer fees and costs 

When you're arrested and tried for petty theft, you somehow don't have to pay your lawyer?


Of course not, because you're not actually buying his service, you're just copying it.
#92 Jul 10 2011 at 12:44 PM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
[quote=shintasama]and just because I thought it was interesting:
 
	             Stealing a physical copy 	      Stealing a digital copy 
Absolute              
Minimum 	     $0, no jail 	              $4,400 
 
Absolute 
Maximum              $100,000, 1 year jail 	      $3,400,000, 1 year jail, lawyer fees and costs 

When you're arrested and tried for petty theft, you somehow don't have to pay your lawyer?


No, you can always get the freebie appointed state lawyer. That is, if you love bargains and prison rape.

Edited, Jul 10th 2011 12:45pm by Tarub
#93 Jul 10 2011 at 12:49 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
shintasama wrote:
and just because I thought it was interesting:
 
	             Stealing a physical copy 	      Stealing a digital copy 
Absolute              
Minimum 	     $0, no jail 	              $4,400 
 
Absolute 
Maximum              $100,000, 1 year jail 	      $3,400,000, 1 year jail, lawyer fees and costs 

When you're arrested and tried for petty theft, you somehow don't have to pay your lawyer?

wrong lawyer
#94 Jul 10 2011 at 3:24 PM Rating: Good
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shintasama wrote:
He knows damn well he's wrong, semantics arguments are the last ditch efforts of weak, beaten minds. He's just trolling.

Semantics are incredibly important, but you know, only when use correctly.
#95 Jul 13 2011 at 9:49 PM Rating: Good
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You're stealing content. Whatever circumstances may surround it, it is stealing.


Meh, there is a a real distinction. There's clearly not a 1 to 1 correlation between obtaining a copy of something without permission and removing a physical item from an inventory. In one case, the item needs to be replaced, there are real adverse opportunity costs, frequently, to doing this, there is an intrinsic cost to produce the item, etc. In the other case, the only "loss" is the potential loss of revenue represented by what the infringer may or may not have paid to obtain a legitimate copy. We could argue about that that loss is relative to the other case, but it's prima facie not the case that everyone who downloads media would have otherwise paid (either outright or through advertising or whatever) to do so. Assuming that relates to the same situation with physical theft, it's clearly something less than "theft".

This is probably why it's legally defined completely distinctly.

So, yes, something, but not theft. Battery isn't attempted murder, etc.
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#96 Jul 13 2011 at 11:32 PM Rating: Decent
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Primarily I felt that nontwo was trying to make a moral distinction, which peeved me because if so then it's the same type of delusion I've seen argued plenty of times before. It then became more of a semantic argument which I felt was him trying to evade.

I'm not particular interested in the legal status of piracy as I never intended my usage to be a technical context but always colloquial. If you feel that's wrong of me to do then eh, I guess there isn't much I can say against that.
#97 Jul 13 2011 at 11:51 PM Rating: Default
Allegory wrote:
Primarily I felt that nontwo was trying to make a moral distinction, which peeved me because if so then it's the same type of delusion I've seen argued plenty of times before. It then became more of a semantic argument which I felt was him trying to evade.

I'm not particular interested in the legal status of piracy as I never intended my usage to be a technical context but always colloquial. If you feel that's wrong of me to do then eh, I guess there isn't much I can say against that.


Honestly, I started exaggerating parts to provoke the dumber people around here. In regards to the moral aspect, I have no need to delude myself because I simply don't care. Both morality and the law are subjective and I see no particular reason to be bothered by them. I don't fancy myself as some sort of libertine, I just have a different set of priorities.

I maintain that equating piracy to shoplifting is ridiculous, though.
#98 Jul 14 2011 at 2:10 AM Rating: Good
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nonwto wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
Apparently Proof goes all Ye Olde English when he's cornered.


How's that? I've never been very good with old English and I don't see any semblance to it in my post.
I just assumed he was saying you post like a drunk.


#99 Jul 14 2011 at 6:25 AM Rating: Default
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Smasharoo wrote:

You're stealing content. Whatever circumstances may surround it, it is stealing.


Meh, there is a a real distinction. There's clearly not a 1 to 1 correlation between obtaining a copy of something without permission and removing a physical item from an inventory. In one case, the item needs to be replaced, there are real adverse opportunity costs, frequently, to doing this, there is an intrinsic cost to produce the item, etc. In the other case, the only "loss" is the potential loss of revenue represented by what the infringer may or may not have paid to obtain a legitimate copy. We could argue about that that loss is relative to the other case, but it's prima facie not the case that everyone who downloads media would have otherwise paid (either outright or through advertising or whatever) to do so. Assuming that relates to the same situation with physical theft, it's clearly something less than "theft".

This is probably why it's legally defined completely distinctly.

So, yes, something, but not theft. Battery isn't attempted murder, etc.


This..
#100 Jul 19 2011 at 11:54 AM Rating: Decent
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Tarub wrote:
Here friend


Lying is almost as bad as stealing...
#101 Jul 19 2011 at 1:22 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Smasharoo wrote:

You're stealing content. Whatever circumstances may surround it, it is stealing.


Meh, there is a a real distinction. There's clearly not a 1 to 1 correlation between obtaining a copy of something without permission and removing a physical item from an inventory. In one case, the item needs to be replaced, there are real adverse opportunity costs, frequently, to doing this, there is an intrinsic cost to produce the item, etc. In the other case, the only "loss" is the potential loss of revenue represented by what the infringer may or may not have paid to obtain a legitimate copy. We could argue about that that loss is relative to the other case, but it's prima facie not the case that everyone who downloads media would have otherwise paid (either outright or through advertising or whatever) to do so. Assuming that relates to the same situation with physical theft, it's clearly something less than "theft".

This is probably why it's legally defined completely distinctly.

So, yes, something, but not theft. Battery isn't attempted murder, etc.
Implying piracy is necessarily equivalent to lost sales? lol, ok then



Edited, Jul 19th 2011 2:25pm by bsphil
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