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I'll hate myself for asking, BUT.

Varus, What is it exactly that makes you so proud to be an American.

Before you call me stupid or liberal or retarded or ask me why I hate America. Know that I love America because ideally this is a place anybody can come to, work hard, and prosper regardless of race or religion. That I'm proud of the young men and women that VOLUNTEER for the military, to protect the rights of people that they don't even agree with even though the pay is laughable (i know i've been there) and the praise short lived. I'm proud that there are people in this country that know that to live in a society is to work to better not just yourself but that society as well. (This includes everybody in it.. notice the constituion does note that the job of the goverment is to protect the wellbeing of it's citizens)

What I'm not proud of are the people in this country, and all over the world for that matter who do nothing but spread fear and hate. Of American politicians all the way back to Jefferson (Who just like his protege 200 years later, left the office of governor after only 2 years.) and Hamilton careing more about their own interests than they do about the people they've been elected to represent. These people are nothing but dividers, you are nothing but a divider.

To everybody but Varus
Sorry for the long post.

Edit for a bit of clarity in this merky world.

Edited, Jun 15th 2011 1:27pm by HatoriofGaruda

Man, you gotta try lurking moar.

I'd love to see where that is.

The differentiation between people you view as speaking necessary truth and those who are spreading hate and fear is most often purely arbitrary choice of "side". Cart before the horse. If you are a liberal, you see Obama speaking truth and saying great things, and you see Bush spreading fear and hate. If you're a conservative, you see it the other way around.


What's really funny is the sheer number of people who'll see that even when they say or do the exact same thing. I'm suggesting that it's a good idea to check your own bias prior to criticizing someone else for their's.

Section 8 - Powers of Congress

The Congress shall have Power To lay and collect Taxes, Duties, Imposts and Excises, to pay the Debts and provide for the common Defence and general Welfare of the United States; but all Duties, Imposts and Excises shall be uniform throughout the United States;


http://www.usconstitution.net/const.html#Preamble

you can argue semantics if you want about the "General welfare of the united states" but the simple fact is if a countries citizens arn't healthy and happy, the country itself isn't going to be very prosperous. At least not in the long term.

Also note that it clearly states these imposts and excises shall be uniform throughout the united states.

Those imposed by Congress.

It's not like your population isn't easily replenished. Look at all the immigrants, legal or illegal. But the land and resources, not quite so.

Welfare of the United States, not the individual citizens within it. Those who wrote that language absolutely did not intend for the federal government to be handling individual cases of need and handing out benefits based on that need.




We're parsing language out of the Constitution. By definition, we're arguing semantics, right?




That's a presumption based on a socio-political ideology you happen to hold. That does not make it absolute truth for everyone though. Many of us believe that a nation which attempts to fix all the problems of each individual within it will find itself becoming unhealthy over time. Even more directly, there's no evidence that "welfare" as we know it today actually makes the citizens more healthy and happy than otherwise. It seems like it obviously should, but look at things like poverty statistics over time and examine the issue objectively. What you'll find is that our modern welfare system doesn't make people less poor or less sick. It just makes poverty and sickness more bearable. At a significant cost.


The counter argument is that if the government were not taxing the funds necessary to do that in the first place, fewer people would be poor and sick. And as a not inconsiderable side benefit, they'll have greater liberty as well.

Fixed.

What do figs have to do with anything?

Perhaps he meant "fog", suggesting that Moe's point was hard to see or unclear in some way?

I doubt varus would offer anything entertaining.


I love figs. They're delicious.