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Anthony Weiner not sure if that's his weiner.Follow

#152 Jun 07 2011 at 9:35 AM Rating: Decent
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Nilatai wrote:
Call me naive, but I never understood why sh*t like this is such a big deal. Are politicians supposed to adhere to some kind of higher standard than the general populous? That's always struck me as unreasonable at best. So long as he doesn't do something that grossly betrays the trust of his position(which this doesn't, at all) then just let it lie? He's a man, he sent pictures of himself to women. As far as I can see, that's something he needs to apologise to his wife about, not the rest of your fucking country.

Some people think so but we're long past the time when heads of government were considered divine entities.
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#153 Jun 07 2011 at 1:27 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Nilatai wrote:

Don't you remember how everyone here "screamed and howled" about that and demanded his resignation?


Er? We didn't have a thread about it. The guy resigned like the day the scandal came out, so I'm not sure what the hell you're talking about. And your quotes from the Senator Craig thread are hysterical, and prove my point. I said the same things in that thread that I said in this: Let's wait until we know the facts. You, on the other hand, kept running on and on about how his plea to disorderly conduct was the same as an admission the he was cruising for gay sex. Then you made a big deal about how he didn't resign. But you're not partisan at all? Lol!
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#154 Jun 07 2011 at 1:30 PM Rating: Excellent
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Wow.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#155gbaji, Posted: Jun 07 2011 at 1:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) This touches on the heart of the issue:
#156 Jun 07 2011 at 1:37 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
Wow.


Why are you surprised. You quoted the damn thing:

Jophiel wrote:
Well! Who knew? Funnily enough, my first response was one of sympathy. I honestly believe that it must absolutely suck to want to strive for conservative values as a public official and also have homosexual urges knowing that your party will castigate you at the drop of a hat no matter how effectively you served in government.


So your first assumption was that the allegations of cruising for gay sex in a bathroom were true. Yet, your first assumption in this case was that someone must have hacked his account and sent that picture.

Couldn't be a more clear case of partisan double standard Joph. Did you even bother to read what you quoted?


I, on the other hand, took the same stance in both case.

gbaji wrote:
Again. I fully believe that the party should have supported him, or at least taken a "we're waiting for the facts" stance. The "fact" is that he plead guilty to a misdemeanor charge that had nothing to do with sexual activity at all. But since it was presented in the context of an allegation of sexual activity, assumptions were made that were not proven.
[...]
Maybe that's just how you and I are different. I don't just automatically assume that the allegations being made are true. In fact, I start with the assumption of innocence (kinda like our legal system is supposed to be).



Shocking, isn't it? Someone who says that same thing when a political scandal occurs regardless of the political party of the person involved! Wait! That's exactly what I said I do. So your quote of me basically proves me right and you wrong. Which makes one wonder why you quoted it?
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#157 Jun 07 2011 at 1:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
So your first assumption was that the allegations of cruising for gay sex in a bathroom were true.

My claim that it must suck was more general than that. I also said he shouldn't have to resign regardless. But, yeah, any port in a storm.

Quote:
I, on the other hand, took the same stance in both case.

That his lack of a formal investigation was an admission of guilt and he should immediately resign?

Heh.

Quote:
Someone who says that same thing when a political scandal occurs regardless of the political party of the person involved!

Hilarious.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 2:44pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#158 Jun 07 2011 at 1:46 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
We want people representing us who are better than us.
Your self esteem must suck.
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#159 Jun 07 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
gbaji wrote:
Yes. We should hold politicians to a higher standard. Lots of people like to make a big deal like it's hypocritical to do so (do as I say, not as I do), but while I agree that it's unreasonable to assume that all people are going to uphold those ideals, we should still expect them from our elected officials. They represent us. They should represent the best aspects of us, not the worst, and not even the "average". We could randomly pick names out of a hat if we just wanted people in congress who are just like us. The fact is that we don't want people representing us who are just like us. We want people representing us who are better than us.


That's absurd.

gbaji wrote:
That may not always work out, but isn't it better to set that bar high knowing that some will fail, then to set it so low that everyone can meet it? What's the alternative? We just accept that members of congress are flawed people and look the other way when they lie, cheat, and steal? It may be unreasonable to expect people to meet those standards, but I think it's important to have them anyway.


I think it's silly to have such a high standard that no one can meet it. But then, I also think that if a guy cheats on his wife, that doesn't automatically mean he can't do his job. I also think that when a guy panics and denies that he cheated on his wife at first, that's somewhat understandable. Especially when he mans up and admits that he lied about it and apologizes for panicking and being embarrassed about the situation.

But then... I also think that none of this is our business to begin with.
#160 Jun 07 2011 at 1:54 PM Rating: Excellent
Belkira wrote:
I [...] think that if a guy cheats on his wife, that doesn't automatically mean he can't do his job.

I agree.
Belkira wrote:
I also think that when a guy panics and denies that he cheated on his wife at first, that's somewhat understandable. Especially when he mans up and admits that he lied about it and apologizes for panicking and being embarrassed about the situation.

No. Character is how you act when it's inconvenient or inexpedient. Character is how you react in the face of adversity. Panic is a fleeting reaction. If you can't handle it, I don't want you leading me or my country.

And he didn't man up, he copped when overwhelming evidence began mounting. That's like apologizing and going in to rehab because you got in a wreck and killed 3 people after you punched the guy who tried to take your keys.
Belkira wrote:
But then... I also think that none of this is our business to begin with.

Not until he does it from the office I pay for him to work out of on the phone I pay for him to do work on. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That makes me my congresswoman's boss, or one of them. My boss would take a dim f'ucking view of me sexting and having phone sex in my office. I take the same with my elected representatives.
#161 Jun 07 2011 at 2:00 PM Rating: Good
MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
I also think that when a guy panics and denies that he cheated on his wife at first, that's somewhat understandable. Especially when he mans up and admits that he lied about it and apologizes for panicking and being embarrassed about the situation.

No. Character is how you act when it's inconvenient or inexpedient. Character is how you react in the face of adversity. Panic is a fleeting reaction. If you can't handle it, I don't want you leading me or my country.

And he didn't man up, he copped when overwhelming evidence began mounting. That's like apologizing and going in to rehab because you got in a wreck and killed 3 people after you punched the guy who tried to take your keys.


Point taken.

MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
But then... I also think that none of this is our business to begin with.

Not until he does it from the office I pay for him to work out of on the phone I pay for him to do work on. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That makes me my congresswoman's boss, or one of them. My boss would take a dim f'ucking view of me sexting and having phone sex in my office. I take the same with my elected representatives.


I know he called one of the chicks from his "private congressional line." I have no idea if he was doing any of the other stuff while on the clock. But I expect that all congress-people do personal things while at work. Everyone does. So long as he's getting his job done... meh.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 3:00pm by Belkira
#162 Jun 07 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
But then... I also think that none of this is our business to begin with.

Not until he does it from the office I pay for him to work out of on the phone I pay for him to do work on. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That makes me my congresswoman's boss, or one of them. My boss would take a dim f'ucking view of me sexting and having phone sex in my office. I take the same with my elected representatives.


I'm kind of with Moe and gbaji here...doesn't the fact that politicians are voted into office by the public affect things a little bit?

EDIT: I feel the way that Moe states below. I don't see any need for a resignation (with the info at hand, at least). But I think it's perfectly fine for him to get flak otherwise, and for him to (ultimately) lose his job via vote in the next election cycle as a result of this.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 4:06pm by Eske
#163 Jun 07 2011 at 2:03 PM Rating: Good
Belkira wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Not until he does it from the office I pay for him to work out of on the phone I pay for him to do work on. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That makes me my congresswoman's boss, or one of them. My boss would take a dim f'ucking view of me sexting and having phone sex in my office. I take the same with my elected representatives.

I know he called one of the chicks from his "private congressional line." I have no idea if he was doing any of the other stuff while on the clock. But I expect that all congress-people do personal things while at work. Everyone does. So long as he's getting his job done... meh.

And to be perfectly clear, I don't want him to resign, and I don't think he owes that to anyone (except maybe his wife, but that's their business...). I think the voters should remember this and vote accordingly in the next election.
#164 Jun 07 2011 at 2:08 PM Rating: Good
Eske Esquire wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
But then... I also think that none of this is our business to begin with.

Not until he does it from the office I pay for him to work out of on the phone I pay for him to do work on. Of the people, by the people, for the people. That makes me my congresswoman's boss, or one of them. My boss would take a dim f'ucking view of me sexting and having phone sex in my office. I take the same with my elected representatives.


I'm kind of with Moe and gbaji here...doesn't the fact that politicians are voted into office by the public affect things a little bit?


To me, we vote them into office to do a job, not to stay faithful to their wives and to avoid scamming on Craigslist.

Of course, we also don't want them lying to us, and Weiner did, so there's that.
#165 Jun 07 2011 at 2:10 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Panic is a fleeting reaction. If you can't handle it, I don't want you leading me or my country.

I don't disagree but, as 0.23% of the House of Representatives, I don't exactly worry about the guy's fleeting reactions, either. It's not as though he has his finger on any buttons.

I felt Governor Sanford should have resigned, not because of the adultery, but because of the absolutely lunatic way he dealt with it (fleeing the country for days without letting any of his staff or even Lt. Governor know that/where he went). That's a position with a bit more ability to do harm through action or inaction. Generic, garden variety House Rep, not so much.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#166 Jun 07 2011 at 2:12 PM Rating: Good
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I'm kind of with Moe and gbaji here...doesn't the fact that politicians are voted into office by the public affect things a little bit?
A little. I don't believe someone paying taxes is at all relevant if the people being lorded over also pay taxes.
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#167 Jun 07 2011 at 2:14 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
I felt Governor Sanford should have resigned, not because of the adultery, but because of the absolutely lunatic way he dealt with it (fleeing the country for days without letting any of his staff or even Lt. Governor know that/where he went). That's a position with a bit more ability to do harm through action or inaction. Generic, garden variety House Rep, not so much.

Without a doubt. Scope and scale come in to play, and that's well beyond the pale.
#168 Jun 07 2011 at 2:20 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
To me, we vote them into office to do a job, not to stay faithful to their wives and to avoid scamming on Craigslist.

Of course, we also don't want them lying to us, and Weiner did, so there's that.


Well, hypothetically speaking, isn't infidelity lying? I could see it being indicative of character flaws that could be applied to job-related things. Not taking one's promises seriously, failure to think in the long term, a willingness to do the wrong thing because you think that you won't be caught. Stuff like that. I don't see a problem with somebody making that judgement call, and voting said hypothetical politician out of office.
#169 Jun 07 2011 at 2:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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Eske Esquire wrote:
I could see it being indicative of character flaws that could be applied to job-related things. Not taking one's promises seriously, failure to think in the long term, a willingness to do the wrong thing because you think that you won't be caught. Stuff like that.

I can't think of any politicians who were in some sort of adultery scandal and then went on to steal millions or anything. I admit this is a flawed sample since only a small percentage remain in office.

On the other hand, you have dipshits like Rod Blagojevich (or his predecessor George Ryan) who, by all accounts, is faithful to his wife and who yet manages to have a self-absorbed and narcissistic streak a mile wide leading to all manner of corruption.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#170 Jun 07 2011 at 2:32 PM Rating: Good
Eske Esquire wrote:
Belkira wrote:
To me, we vote them into office to do a job, not to stay faithful to their wives and to avoid scamming on Craigslist.

Of course, we also don't want them lying to us, and Weiner did, so there's that.


Well, hypothetically speaking, isn't infidelity lying? I could see it being indicative of character flaws that could be applied to job-related things. Not taking one's promises seriously, failure to think in the long term, a willingness to do the wrong thing because you think that you won't be caught. Stuff like that. I don't see a problem with somebody making that judgement call, and voting said hypothetical politician out of office.


Lying to his wife, sure. But he's not lying to me. I'm not married to him, thank god.
#171 Jun 07 2011 at 2:33 PM Rating: Good
Belkira wrote:
Lying to his wife, sure. But he's not lying to me. I'm not married to him, thank god.

Let's be honest, he's probably gotten down on his knees and thanked Bob himself a time or two.
#172 Jun 07 2011 at 2:35 PM Rating: Good
MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Lying to his wife, sure. But he's not lying to me. I'm not married to him, thank god.

Let's be honest, he's probably gotten down on his knees and thanked Bob himself a time or two.


it seems unlikely to me he knows who belkira is.

i mean why would he. honestly moe think before you post please.
#173 Jun 07 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
Edited by bsphil
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gbaji wrote:
Yes. We should hold politicians to a higher standard. Lots of people like to make a big deal like it's hypocritical to do so (do as I say, not as I do), but while I agree that it's unreasonable to assume that all people are going to uphold those ideals, we should still expect them from our elected officials.
It's worth noting that not everybody runs on the ethical/morally superior ticket. When a candidate defines himself partially as being anti-gay marriage and/or anti-homosexuality, but then winds up in a sex scandal with another gay man, that's funny because of the hypocrisy. It's not really hypocrisy if that's not what he ran as, that's him just being in a scandal.
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gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#174 Jun 07 2011 at 2:38 PM Rating: Good
Kavekk wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Belkira wrote:
Lying to his wife, sure. But he's not lying to me. I'm not married to him, thank god.

Let's be honest, he's probably gotten down on his knees and thanked Bob himself a time or two.


it seems unlikely to me he knows who belkira is.

i mean why would he. honestly moe think before you post please.

Meh, I LOL'd.

EDIT: At your post, not mine. Mine wasn't funny.

Edited, Jun 7th 2011 3:39pm by MoebiusLord
#175 Jun 07 2011 at 2:48 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
Eske Esquire wrote:
I could see it being indicative of character flaws that could be applied to job-related things. Not taking one's promises seriously, failure to think in the long term, a willingness to do the wrong thing because you think that you won't be caught. Stuff like that.

I can't think of any politicians who were in some sort of adultery scandal and then went on to steal millions or anything. I admit this is a flawed sample since only a small percentage remain in office.

On the other hand, you have dipshits like Rod Blagojevich (or his predecessor George Ryan) who, by all accounts, is faithful to his wife and who yet manages to have a self-absorbed and narcissistic streak a mile wide leading to all manner of corruption.


Belkira wrote:
Lying to his wife, sure. But he's not lying to me. I'm not married to him, thank god.


*shrugs*

I don't mean to say that there's any inherent correlation. Just that, in certain circumstances, I wouldn't have any issue with somebody deciding to vote a politician out of office for being too scummy, even if the issue wasn't directly related to his job.
#176 Jun 07 2011 at 2:49 PM Rating: Excellent
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Thinking on it, I suppose that a politician involved in an affair could be more susceptible to blackmail/bribery if it came down to it. Again, this isn't a terrible concern of mine for a singular House rep (and not on heading any committees, etc) but it'd be a legitimate concern in my eyes versus "He should be better!"
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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