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#127 Jun 01 2011 at 12:51 PM Rating: Decent
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bsphil wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
I don't consider soldiers as federal employees.
Well, that'd make you incorrect, but for you that's just par for the course anyway.

He considers them a disposable commodity.
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#128 Jun 01 2011 at 4:12 PM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
Nat,

First you need to understand how a ceasefire works.
Ceasefires work?
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#129 Jun 01 2011 at 4:54 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm more appreciative of the administration that sent me in country in a vehicle that barely vibrated rolling directly over an IED than I am in the one that sent me in a vehicle that flipped over twice, broke both of my legs and killed my gunner when it drove next to an IED.


Shouldn't at least some of the blame/credit be applied to the administration responsible for the decisions regarding standard theater equipment which included those two variations of vehicles? We had up-armored personnel vehicles back in the early 90s. But the Democrats and President Clinton were more interested in saving money in order to cash in on the "peace dividend" from the end of the Cold War and never made large scale production much less outfitting of those vehicles a priority.

That's why there were very few of them for the first few years of the Iraq war. The armor on those vehicles got better because it was made a priority. You certainly should know that it takes years to ramp up gear upgrades on that large a scale.

Quote:
But hey, go ahead and give your personal accounts on why one administration is better during these stupid conflicts.


I think it's an unfair and somewhat irrelevant comparison. When was the second vehicle you were in ordered? When was the decision made to build it? When was the decision to make the design changes made and funded? You know damn well that Obama had absolutely nothing to do with that at all. It's unlikely he was even in Congress when those decisions were made.
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#130 Jun 01 2011 at 5:54 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
Shouldn't at least some of the blame/credit be applied to the administration responsible for the decisions regarding standard theater equipment which included those two variations of vehicles?
Funny, because I think blame/credit should be applied to all administrations during the span of any event they may be linked to. Beginning, middle, end. Do I think Obama is fixing the economy? I think all he's doing is slowing the bleeding. The wars? Pulled out combat units which is good, but combat units aren't exactly the biggest piece of the armed forces pie. Why do I bring that up? Every time anyone makes the suggestion that Bush should be equally blamed for these events you go out of your way to spin it.

I blame about four, maybe five administrations worth of political hacks on our mess in the Middle East.
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#131 Jun 01 2011 at 6:22 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
I'm more appreciative of the administration that sent me in country in a vehicle that barely vibrated rolling directly over an IED than I am in the one that sent me in a vehicle that flipped over twice, broke both of my legs and killed my gunner when it drove next to an IED.


lolgaxe wrote:
Funny, because I think blame/credit should be applied to all administrations during the span of any event they may be linked to.


But that's not really what you did in the paragraph above, is it? Sure looks to me like you're "appreciative" of the Obama administration for sending you to fight in safer vehicles, while failing utterly to share even a tiny bit of that appreciation for the administration which actually planned, funded, built, and made deployable the vehicle you were riding in. Meanwhile, you clearly placed blame on the Bush administration for the previous unsafe vehicle you were riding in, whilst also failing to share any of that blame with the administration which failed to properly fund, order, and make deployable safer vehicles in the first place.

You sure you want to claim to be an equal blame/credit giver? Cause that's not what it looks like to me.

Quote:
Why do I bring that up? Every time anyone makes the suggestion that Bush should be equally blamed for these events you go out of your way to spin it.


Do you honestly believe that what you were doing was "equally blaming" Bush?

I responded to you because I saw yet another example of someone unfairly heaping blame on Bush for something bad, while failing to grant him any credit for something good. Do you see how it's *you* who were being unfair and not me?

Quote:
I blame about four, maybe five administrations worth of political hacks on our mess in the Middle East.


That's reasonable. And had you said that originally, I would have agreed with you. But that's not what you said originally, was it?
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#132 Jun 01 2011 at 6:29 PM Rating: Excellent
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You should do Lolgaxe a favor and just go golfing.
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#133 Jun 01 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
But that's not really what you did in the paragraph above, is it? Sure looks to me like you're "appreciative" of the Obama administration for sending you to fight in safer vehicles, while failing utterly to share even a tiny bit of that appreciation for the administration which actually planned, funded, built, and made deployable the vehicle you were riding in. Meanwhile, you clearly placed blame on the Bush administration for the previous unsafe vehicle you were riding in, whilst also failing to share any of that blame with the administration which failed to properly fund, order, and make deployable safer vehicles in the first place.

You sure you want to claim to be an equal blame/credit giver? Cause that's not what it looks like to me.
Not that I expect differently from you, but you're reading what you want to again and not what was said.
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#134 Jun 01 2011 at 7:13 PM Rating: Default
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Not that I expect differently from you, but you're reading what you want to again and not what was said.


No. I'm reading exactly what he wrote. WTF? It couldn't have been more clear. He tied his appreciation for each president strictly to the vehicle he was riding during an IED attack during each of their administrations and nothing else. How do you read anything else?
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#135 Jun 01 2011 at 7:21 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
How do you read anything else?
Because I can tell when someone's just trying to get a rise out of someone else.
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#136 Jun 01 2011 at 7:37 PM Rating: Good
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gbaji wrote:
He tied his appreciation for each president strictly to the vehicle he was riding during an IED attack during each of their administrations and nothing else.
Wrong, try again.
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#137 Jun 01 2011 at 7:39 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
You should do Lolgaxe a favor and just go golfing.
No way, gbaji says I'll be offended by that.
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George Carlin wrote:
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#138 Jun 01 2011 at 7:42 PM Rating: Default
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
He tied his appreciation for each president strictly to the vehicle he was riding during an IED attack during each of their administrations and nothing else.
Wrong, try again.


Saying that doesn't make it so. How about next time you post something incredibly partisan and unfair you at least be man enough to acknowledge that that's what you are doing? That would be refreshing at least.


What you're doing is bizarre, to say the least.
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#139 Jun 01 2011 at 7:59 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
He tied his appreciation for each president strictly to the vehicle he was riding during an IED attack during each of their administrations and nothing else.
Wrong, try again.
Saying that doesn't make it so.
Considering it was my post you got wrong, my saying you're wrong about my post actually does make it so.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#140 Jun 01 2011 at 8:03 PM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
I wonder how obamapologists like yourself and Joph justify this.


Ok, I'm not an "Obama apologist". He's been a real disappointment and I rank him only 2 places above Bush, 1 above Hoover, 1 below Harding, somewhere in the lower end of mediocre just before it gives way to terrible.

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There's no ifs ands or buts about it. Iraq broke the ceasefire.


Actually, no, they didn't.

Quote:
The dilemma for the United States and the United Kingdom is that the Security Council at this moment does not agree that Iraq has failed to disarm. France, Germany, Syria, Russia and China have all argued to one degree or another that Iraq may not have disarmed entirely, but it has begun to disarm, or is in the process of disarming.


The ceasefire was signed with the UN, and with the exception of a few minimal breaches, was upheld. Hence, there was no aggressive act towards the United States or Great Britain and no valid reason for the invasion. If the ceasefire had been blatantly broken, you would have had more allies.

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Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#141 Jun 01 2011 at 8:06 PM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
gbaji wrote:
He tied his appreciation for each president strictly to the vehicle he was riding during an IED attack during each of their administrations and nothing else.
Wrong, try again.
Saying that doesn't make it so.
Considering it was my post you got wrong, my saying you're wrong about my post actually does make it so.
No, you're wrong, gbaji understood what you really meant. How else are you going to know your own opinions on matters if somebody that doesn't at all know you doesn't tell you first?



Edited, Jun 1st 2011 9:07pm by bsphil
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If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#142 Jun 01 2011 at 8:40 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
How about next time you post something incredibly partisan and unfair you at least be man enough to acknowledge that that's what you are doing?

Wait... this is coming from the tool who compares golfing to visiting strip clubs on your wedding anniversary?

Hahahahahahaha...
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#143REDACTED, Posted: Jun 02 2011 at 8:10 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Drift,
#144 Jun 02 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
The US congress didn't think they were minimal.


The US congress was given blatantly incorrect information and made their decision based upon it.
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The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#145 Jun 02 2011 at 9:31 AM Rating: Excellent
Driftwood wrote:
Quote:
The US congress didn't think they were minimal.

The US congress was given blatantly incorrect information and made their decision based upon it.

Hindsight's 20/20. When the entire civilized world believes the same thing, you can hardly fault a legislature for acting on it.
#146 Jun 02 2011 at 9:33 AM Rating: Decent
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Quote:
Hindsight's 20/20. When the entire civilized world believes the same thing, you can hardly fault a legislature for acting on it.


If the entire civilized world believed it, then why wasn't there a larger coalition as in the first gulf war?
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10k before the site's inevitable death or bust

The World Is Not A Cold Dead Place.
Alan Watts wrote:
I am omnipotent insofar as I am the Universe, but I am not an omnipotent in the role of Alan Watts, only cunning


Eske wrote:
I've always read Driftwood as the straight man in varus' double act. It helps if you read all of his posts in the voice of Droopy Dog.
#147 Jun 02 2011 at 9:37 AM Rating: Excellent
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Driftwood wrote:
If the entire civilized world believed it, then why wasn't there a larger coalition as in the first gulf war?

You forgot Poland!
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#148REDACTED, Posted: Jun 02 2011 at 9:38 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Drift,
#149 Jun 02 2011 at 9:45 AM Rating: Good
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There are only a handful of places inside the US that could be considered civilized. Coincidentally, none of them are south of the Mason-Dixon line.
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George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
#150 Jun 02 2011 at 9:47 AM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
There are only a handful of places inside the US that could be considered civilized. Coincidentally, none of them are south of the Mason-Dixon line.


Yee haw.
#151REDACTED, Posted: Jun 02 2011 at 9:57 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) lolgax,
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