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Time for more tax cuts!Follow

#1 May 26 2011 at 11:22 AM Rating: Excellent
Edited by bsphil
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And for the top wage earners, no less! Because 8 years of tax cuts on the wealthy where median incomes decreased during economic growth was too good to stop.

Curious though, where's the money coming from? We're already at the debt ceiling.
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Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#2 May 26 2011 at 11:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Next time, could you provide a little less detail? Thanks.
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#3 May 26 2011 at 11:37 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Uglysasquatch wrote:
Next time, could you provide a little less detail? Thanks.
Here's the article snippet for those too lazy to click the link:

Quote:
House Republicans will seek to reset the economic-policy debate Thursday, offering a broad plan to boost jobs and growth by easing tax and regulatory burdens.

The plan includes a 25% top tax rate on corporations and individuals, compared with the current 35%, as well as higher domestic-energy production, new curbs on government regulations and overhauls of U.S. patent and visa systems to help entrepreneurs and high-tech firms.

In addition, the plan calls for aligning the U.S. with other major economies that basically tax their multinational corporations only on domestic earnings. That proposal could offer a boost to supporters of legislation ...
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#4 May 26 2011 at 11:50 AM Rating: Default
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bsphil wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
Next time, could you provide a little less detail? Thanks.
Here's the article snippet for those too lazy to click the link:

Quote:
House Republicans will seek to reset the economic-policy debate Thursday, offering a broad plan to boost jobs and growth by easing tax and regulatory burdens.

The plan includes a 25% top tax rate on corporations and individuals, compared with the current 35%, as well as higher domestic-energy production, new curbs on government regulations and overhauls of U.S. patent and visa systems to help entrepreneurs and high-tech firms.

In addition, the plan calls for aligning the U.S. with other major economies that basically tax their multinational corporations only on domestic earnings. That proposal could offer a boost to supporters of legislation ...

Thanks ***hole. I read the link. Think next time you could provide something that actually goes into some detail?
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#5 May 26 2011 at 11:51 AM Rating: Excellent
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It's essentially a retread of the Ryan budget with the toxic Medicare provisions pulled out and repackaged as a "jobs/taxes" bill.

Given that Ryan's plan was based on ridiculous economic assumptions such as 6.4% unemployment by 2012 (and 2.6% by 2021!) and $89 billion in new 2012 residential home development, it's impossible to take it seriously now. Despite the relabeling, does anyone else see an issue with a "jobs" bill that relies on a nearly 3pt drop in unemployment before it can be solvent?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#6 May 26 2011 at 12:00 PM Rating: Decent
Jophiel wrote:
Despite the relabeling, does anyone else see an issue with a "jobs" bill that relies on a nearly 3pt drop in unemployment before it can be solvent?

No more than I have with a stimulus package that cost $800,000 per job created.
#7 May 26 2011 at 12:03 PM Rating: Excellent
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So you do or don't have an issue with Ryan's numbers?
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 May 26 2011 at 12:33 PM Rating: Decent
I have issues with Ryan's numbers, but I applaud him for taking a huge step in the right direction.
#9 May 26 2011 at 12:35 PM Rating: Excellent
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Jophiel wrote:
So you do or don't have an issue with Ryan's numbers?
Following his wording and likely sarcasm, he seems to dislike both.
#10 May 26 2011 at 12:52 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
I have issues with Ryan's numbers, but I applaud him for taking a huge step in the right direction.

What huge step? When you make up the numbers, the supposed results don't matter much, do they? You made a whole bunch of noise insisting that the HRC bill's numbers were wrong and that it was a travesty... now it's "Oh, I have issues but it's such a huge step in the right direction"?

Hehehe... nice.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#11 May 26 2011 at 1:13 PM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
What huge step?

If nothing else, nothing at all, it is a holistic approach to limiting the exposure of the American taxpayer to continued unrealistic growth in the federal budget and the consequences there of, which is something the President and Democrat controlled congress failed to put forth during the time they had. It is the beginning of a conversation in more than abstract terms. The assumptions behind the numbers have huge flaws, but at least they're on paper and being voted on. At least they are a starting point for the process to move forward. I agree with Newt Gingrich on it: there are serious flaws, but it's a good first effort.

The President could have put forth his plan at any time. It could have included recommendations from his blue ribbon deficit commission. He'd rather not lead, though, because he's out of his depth.
#12REDACTED, Posted: May 26 2011 at 1:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#13REDACTED, Posted: May 26 2011 at 1:21 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
#14 May 26 2011 at 1:24 PM Rating: Excellent
varusword75 wrote:
Quote:
The President could have put forth his plan at any time. It could have included recommendations from his blue ribbon deficit commission. He'd rather not lead, though, because he's out of his depth.

No the president couldn't have.

I'm pretty sure you need a remedial English class.
#15REDACTED, Posted: May 26 2011 at 1:35 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
#16 May 26 2011 at 1:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
The assumptions behind the numbers have huge flaws, but at least they're on paper and being voted on. At least they are a starting point for the process to move forward. I agree with Newt Gingrich on it: there are serious flaws, but it's a good first effort.

Except it was voted on and passed by the House. By their standards, it's not a "good first effort", it's the real deal with ridiculously flawed numbers, outlandish assumptions and all. In fact, they're doubling down on the same flawed assumptions by presenting the same bill a second time, only under a new label.

I know Ryan is supposed to be the GOP accounting wunderkid and all but maybe he shouldn't be relying on the Heritage Foundation to mark up his bills so he'll get favorable results.

Or else, hey, let me know when we hit that 2.6% unemployment the GOP is promising me. That extra money will be nice when I'm paying down the mortgage on one of those millions of new homes we're going to build next year.

Edited, May 26th 2011 2:50pm by Jophiel
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#17 May 26 2011 at 2:16 PM Rating: Decent
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Despite the relabeling, does anyone else see an issue with a "jobs" bill that relies on a nearly 3pt drop in unemployment before it can be solvent?

No more than I have with a stimulus package that cost $800,000 per job created.


This X100. While some of the numbers in Ryan's plan are pretty speculative, the overall direction isn't wholly dependent on them. Also, the plan itself at least has the virtue of putting in place policies that will help those numbers occur (or at least come close). Let's not forget that the Dems recovery plan also relied on some pretty unrealistic numbers. The difference being that their own policies worked against those numbers coming true. The required a massive increase in GDP growth and decrease in unemployment, but continued spending and taxing the whole while. How exactly did they expect those things to happen? Magic fairy dust I guess!
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#18 May 26 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Good
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Do you have a source for your numbers Joph?
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More words please
#19 May 26 2011 at 2:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
While some of the numbers in Ryan's plan are pretty speculative, the overall direction isn't wholly dependent on them.

I hope you're embarrassed at having typed that. Granted, it's only Thursday, but that's the stupidest thing you've said this week and that's including your screeds about polling.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#20 May 26 2011 at 2:19 PM Rating: Excellent
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gbaji wrote:
Do you have a source for your numbers Joph?

Yeah, the Heritage Foundation's markup for Ryan's bill. Go show a little initiative and look it up.

Edit: Here, I did ya a solid. Don't say I never did nothin' for ya.

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:24pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#21 May 26 2011 at 2:28 PM Rating: Excellent
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Uh oh! You might have a hard time finding the unemployment. Apparently Heritage and the GOP quietly redacted the data after it became a joke:
TPM wrote:
Apparently, the Heritage Foundation isn't comfortable being the butt of economists' jokes after boldly predicting a 2.8% unemployment rate in 2021 if the House GOP Budget is enacted. The think tank has removed the number from its study posted online.

As Paul Krugman pointed out in his blog, web users who downloaded a copy of the Heritage Foundation's analysis yesterday were treated to a table in the appendix detailing the unemployment rate under Paul Ryan's plan versus the CBO's projections for the President's budget. The same file downloaded today, however, omits the table entirely. TPM reached out to Heritage for an explanation and will post an update if they have further information.

Here's the original data table before Heritage quietly swept it under the rug.

Paul Ryan's GOP Budget: Not intended to be a factual statement.

Edited, May 26th 2011 3:34pm by Jophiel
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 May 26 2011 at 2:36 PM Rating: Good
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Jophiel wrote:
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Sorry, Get Him to the Greek has been running near constantly on HBO. I've got nothing to contribute here otherwise.
#23 May 26 2011 at 3:10 PM Rating: Excellent
The truth of it is you're really not interested in cutting government spending, especially if it comes at the expense of the growth of entitlements, so it's not really a worthwhile conversation to stay involved in.
#24 May 26 2011 at 3:18 PM Rating: Excellent
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I'm not a fan of blindly cutting spending while refusing to raise any taxes, either directly or indirectly. So I guess if that's your breaking point, I can't be too upset.

I previously advocated for the debt commission's plan which I thought was a good one (as a broad plan, I'm sure there's details I'd quibble about).

But, no, this plan is a joke based on numbers so ridiculous that even the Heritage Foundation had to redact and hide them. So if that fact bothers you then I guess there isn't much point in discussing it.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#25REDACTED, Posted: May 26 2011 at 3:19 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Moe,
#26REDACTED, Posted: May 26 2011 at 3:20 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
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