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#1 Apr 14 2011 at 6:49 AM Rating: Good
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Since the SC ruled that that members of the WBC were acting within their rights when protesting at the funerals of fallen military folk, many lawmakers have gone to work to protect the ceremonies. I believe there are more than a couple states that have enacted or are in the process of enacting laws to protect funerals from disruption.

Most recently Senator Snowe (R-Maine) has brough forward a federal bill - the Sanctity of Eternal Rest for Veterans Act (SERVE).

pressherald wrote:
Snowe's proposal would alter federal law to increase the "quiet time" in which protests are prohibited before and after military funerals from one hour to two hours, and to enlarge the buffer zone for protesters.

Current law sets a 150-foot boundary around a service and 300 feet around the access route to the service. Snowe's bill would increase the buffers to 300 feet and 500 feet, respectively. It also would impose penalties on violators, including as much as two years in prison.


I have no problem with funerals having some legal protection from disruption, but limiting it to service-people is a stupid-filled slap in the face of equality.
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#2 Apr 14 2011 at 6:54 AM Rating: Good
Leave it to Olympia Snowe to try and make this a federal law. Every bill submitted in Congress should have to cite its constitutional mandate. This effort has none.
#3 Apr 14 2011 at 7:11 AM Rating: Excellent
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While I do think that the wbc protestors are wrong and assholy, I do agree with the ruling, but only because I don't like to think of what other types of speech might get banned in the future.

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#4 Apr 14 2011 at 7:29 AM Rating: Decent
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Nice gesture but what about everyone else and prison time for exercising your right to peaceful protest sounds kind of overboard. Not to sound like a cold piece of ****, but isn't there more important things going on in the USA then loud noises during funerals.
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#5 Apr 14 2011 at 7:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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rdmcandie wrote:
isn't there more important things going on in the USA then loud noises during funerals.
Something about a five year old boy in a catalog with pink toe nails.
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#6 Apr 14 2011 at 8:45 AM Rating: Excellent
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I'm as offended by that hackneyed, shoe-horned acronym than anything else. "VEterans", Ms. Snowe? Really?
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#7 Apr 14 2011 at 3:35 PM Rating: Decent
I'd like to see our Vetrans protected even when dead. Its insulting to have people
protest at a funeral.
#8 Apr 14 2011 at 3:43 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
rdmcandie wrote:
isn't there more important things going on in the USA then loud noises during funerals.
Something about a five year old boy in a catalog with pink toe nails.


What sick ******* give their kid Beckett as a first name? He'll be forced into a career of pricing collectibles for sure.
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#9 Apr 14 2011 at 3:48 PM Rating: Default
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rdmcandie wrote:
Nice gesture but what about everyone else and prison time for exercising your right to peaceful protest sounds kind of overboard. Not to sound like a cold piece of sh*t, but isn't there more important things going on in the USA then loud noises during funerals.


This is part of a much lager problem. This whole "What eva, what eva, I do what I want" mentality is hurting the U.S. Your freedom of speech is, or at least should be IMO, the right to disagree or agree to certain things, not to be a douche prick. There are indeed laws preventing people from expressing views and we need to acknowledge that and enforce this in all areas of life.
#10 Apr 14 2011 at 3:50 PM Rating: Decent
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Would think that these protesters could be arrested for disturbing the peace, I've seen the cops harass people for much less, and it's just plain obnoxious to make a spectacle of yourself at a funeral (unless it's your own, make the most of THAT).
Don't even have to charge them with anything, just sweep them off the street until the funeral is over.
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#11 Apr 14 2011 at 6:34 PM Rating: Good
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.
#12 Apr 14 2011 at 6:51 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.

I feel the same way. So much so that I want to schedule a Gay Pride parade past the WBC during one of their members' funeral.
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#13 Apr 14 2011 at 7:06 PM Rating: Excellent
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Counter protests to WBC happen quite often.
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#14 Apr 14 2011 at 8:43 PM Rating: Good
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Belkira wrote:
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.


I don't think that I see any risk of the slippery slope with this one. The bill seems pretty specific about what speech it targets. I'd be okay with it going into effect.
#15 Apr 14 2011 at 9:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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lolgaxe wrote:
Counter protests to WBC happen quite often.


They certainly do!


The counterdemos are always far, far funnier too. Do fundie Christians have no sense of humour?



Edited, Apr 15th 2011 3:39am by paulsol
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#16 Apr 14 2011 at 10:01 PM Rating: Decent
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paulsol wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
Counter protests to WBC happen quite often.


They certainly do!


The counterdemos are always far, far funnier too. Do fundie Christians have no sense of humour?
Hahaha, that's ****** great.
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#17 Apr 15 2011 at 2:08 AM Rating: Default
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Belkira wrote:
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.


That doesn't make sense to me. If it sucks, then do something about it. We already have laws against certain types of speech. People need to get out of this fantasy thought that we have the right to say whatever we want whenever we want, because we don't.

This goes back to my "identity" argument as before. We, as a nation, try to please everyone instead of just putting our foot down and saying "NO" to certain things. It's quite ok to say "You have the freedom to speak against the government but not protest against a funeral, if you don't like it, then GTFO".

This is exactly what I was talking about. I would argue, if a vote was taken, most people would disagree with the action of the protest, but it's supported due to this pseudo practice of trying to please everyone where what the citizens really want isn't being put in practice.
#18 Apr 15 2011 at 6:29 AM Rating: Good
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Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.


That doesn't make sense to me. If it sucks, then do something about it. We already have laws against certain types of speech. People need to get out of this fantasy thought that we have the right to say whatever we want whenever we want, because we don't.

This goes back to my "identity" argument as before. We, as a nation, try to please everyone instead of just putting our foot down and saying "NO" to certain things. It's quite ok to say "You have the freedom to speak against the government but not protest against a funeral, if you don't like it, then GTFO".

This is exactly what I was talking about. I would argue, if a vote was taken, most people would disagree with the action of the protest, but it's supported due to this pseudo practice of trying to please everyone where what the citizens really want isn't being put in practice.
I think terming it 'speech' or 'free speech' is misleading. The WBC or anyone can say anything they'd like about dead servicemen. It's not what they're saying, but how they're saying it and what they're doing. When they 'speak' to the point of disruption then maybe we can say they've crossed a line.

We revere funerals, much like religious ceremonies. If a person or persons interrupt these events to the point that the purpose of the ceremony can not be carried out - they could be said to be infringing on the rights of those that simply want to commune with their god, or make their final farewells to dead loved one.

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#19 Apr 15 2011 at 6:45 AM Rating: Good
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I can't wait until the wbc gets to the part of the bible that talks about compassion, love, and not judging otherss...talk about your "oh ****" moments.
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#20 Apr 15 2011 at 7:37 AM Rating: Excellent
Elinda wrote:
I think terming it 'speech' or 'free speech' is misleading. The WBC or anyone can say anything they'd like about dead servicemen. It's not what they're saying, but how they're saying it and what they're doing. When they 'speak' to the point of disruption then maybe we can say they've crossed a line.

We revere funerals, much like religious ceremonies. If a person or persons interrupt these events to the point that the purpose of the ceremony can not be carried out - they could be said to be infringing on the rights of those that simply want to commune with their god, or make their final farewells to dead loved one.

Shaping the argument that way simply changes the portion of the first amendment that is germane.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now, it can be argued that they're not being peaceable, but I think even that fails. As this is the senate considering this legislation, it definitely sets up a challenge because Congress is specifically precluded from addressing it.
#21 Apr 15 2011 at 8:27 AM Rating: Default
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Elinda wrote:
I think terming it 'speech' or 'free speech' is misleading. The WBC or anyone can say anything they'd like about dead servicemen. It's not what they're saying, but how they're saying it and what they're doing. When they 'speak' to the point of disruption then maybe we can say they've crossed a line.

We revere funerals, much like religious ceremonies. If a person or persons interrupt these events to the point that the purpose of the ceremony can not be carried out - they could be said to be infringing on the rights of those that simply want to commune with their god, or make their final farewells to dead loved one.

Shaping the argument that way simply changes the portion of the first amendment that is germane.
Quote:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Now, it can be argued that they're not being peaceable, but I think even that fails. As this is the senate considering this legislation, it definitely sets up a challenge because Congress is specifically precluded from addressing it.


Elinda has a point, then again so does your counter, hence why I stand by my original statement.
#22 Apr 15 2011 at 8:56 AM Rating: Good
Almalieque wrote:
Belkira wrote:
It sucks, sure, but speech should be protected. Even idiots like WBC.


That doesn't make sense to me. If it sucks, then do something about it. We already have laws against certain types of speech. People need to get out of this fantasy thought that we have the right to say whatever we want whenever we want, because we don't.

This goes back to my "identity" argument as before. We, as a nation, try to please everyone instead of just putting our foot down and saying "NO" to certain things. It's quite ok to say "You have the freedom to speak against the government but not protest against a funeral, if you don't like it, then GTFO".

This is exactly what I was talking about. I would argue, if a vote was taken, most people would disagree with the action of the protest, but it's supported due to this pseudo practice of trying to please everyone where what the citizens really want isn't being put in practice.


Wait. I thought you were ******** because we changed laws all willy nilly because someone got his or her panties in a bunch. Now you're saying we should inact a law that effectively voids a portion of the first amendment for funerals?

I don't want to live in a country where you're not allowed to peaceably assemble. Just because I don't like what someone's saying doesn't mean my country has the obligation to shut them up. Fred Phelps might be a shitty person, but he's still a citizen just as much as I am.

ETA: Also? I don't see you using the "if it sucks, we should change it!!!" argument when it comes to same-sex marriage and DADT. Odd, how you only think laws should be changed depending on your own emotional- oh, sorry, I mean "logical" assessment of the situation.

Edited, Apr 15th 2011 9:57am by Belkira
#23Almalieque, Posted: Apr 15 2011 at 9:16 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What are you talking about? The majority of the population feels one way, no disturbances with funerals, DADT (at least within the military), no SSM, etc., have the laws represent what the people believe. There is no need to change SSM and DADT because those laws represent what the people want.
#24 Apr 15 2011 at 9:21 AM Rating: Good
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In before 12 page derail.
#25 Apr 15 2011 at 9:23 AM Rating: Decent
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Ailitardif, Star Breaker wrote:
I can't wait until the wbc gets to the part of the bible that talks about compassion, love, and not judging otherss...talk about your "oh sh*t" moments.

Religious zealots tend to skip over those parts altogether, like varus.
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#26 Apr 15 2011 at 9:42 AM Rating: Good
Almalieque wrote:
Preventing people from "peacefully assembling" at a funeral does not have to have any effect on your ability to have peaceful assembles other than at funerals. You're just confused. I have been consistent this entire time. What I was arguing, if you go back and reference the previous thread, is the U.S. attempting to please everyone. That includes changing laws. I merely used that as an example because examples were asked to be provided.


I don't want to live in a country where I can't peaceably assemble at a funeral of a serviceman. That's ridiculous.

Almalieque wrote:
What are you talking about? The majority of the population feels one way, no disturbances with funerals, DADT (at least within the military), no SSM, etc., have the laws represent what the people believe. There is no need to change SSM and DADT because those laws represent what the people want.

That's my whole point. Make a solid stance in what "we" believe in and make consistent laws with that. Don't change stuff just because a population feels otherwise, unless there is legitimate justification. This is completely consistent with my SSM argument.


The majority is in favor of same-sex marriage.

The majority support a repeal of DADT. And, since you want to narrowly define support as being only the military for some reason (oh, I know the reason, it's the only thing that supports your emotional claim) I don't have the link, but I recall from the last million page thread that outside of the Marines, support for repealing DADT was the majority in the military.

The majority of people were not in support of abolishing slavery at the time it was done.

From what I understand in this thread, you want the US to be run by mob rule. Interesting. And idiotic.
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