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Retracted Autism - Vaccine study - news again?Follow

#1 Jan 12 2011 at 7:32 AM Rating: Excellent
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This is more a clarification. The BMJ, which reported on the now-discredited research of Andrew Wakefield's link between autism and vaccines in 1998, declared the entire study an elaborate fraud. Why is this news again now? Hasn't this been well-known for years, that Wakefield basically faked the study, which has been replicated by many doctors who all found absolutely no correlation?

Perhaps I'm missing the obvious, and outrage **** news sells, huh? I just don't understand why an old story like this would come up now. I actually have some relatives (conservative, military family), who still refuse to vaccinate their kids with anything but the bare minimum to get them into school, and while years ago they cited Wakefield, now they say "We just don't think vaccines are a good idea," refusing to admit they were led astray and were wrong.

I seem to recall some other members of the forums were against vaccinations as well? Has this changed at all?

Most recent article on Wakefield, with fun facts:
http://www.cnn.com/2011/HEALTH/01/11/autism.vaccines/index.html?hpt=T2
Quote:
The report in the medical journal BMJ is the second in a series sharply critical of Dr. Andrew Wakefield, who reported the link in 1998. It follows the journal's declaration last week that the 1998 paper in which Wakefield first suggested a connection between autism and the measles, mumps and rubella, or MMR, vaccine was an "elaborate fraud."

The venture "was to be launched off the back of the vaccine scare, diagnosing a purported -- and still unsubstantiated -- 'new syndrome,'" BMJ reported Tuesday. A prospectus for potential investors suggested that a test for the disorder Wakefield dubbed "autistic enterocolitis" could produce as much as 28 million pounds ($43 million U.S.) in revenue, the journal reported, with "litigation driven testing" of patients in the United States and Britain its initial market.

Among his partners in the enterprise was the father of one of the 12 children in the 1998 study that launched the controversy, the journal reported.

In 2010, after a lengthy investigation, British authorities stripped Wakefield of his medical license, and the Lancet -- which published his original study -- retracted the paper. He has denied any wrongdoing, and a vocal contingent of advocates for children with autism continues to support him.
...
BMJ reported the business venture failed to launch after Wakefield's superiors at University College London's medical school raised concerns in 1999 about a "serious conflict of interest" between his research and the company formed to launch his new product.

"This concern arose originally because the company's business plan appears to depend on premature, scientifically unjustified publication of results, which do not conform to the rigorous academic and scientific standards that are generally expected," a letter stated. But the university offered him a year's paid absence and help in replicating his original research with a larger group of 150 children in the name of "good scientific practice."

The follow-up study never occurred, and no other research has duplicated Wakefield's original findings, BMJ reported. He left the university in 2001, and BMJ quotes his former boss as saying the school "paid him to go away."
...
According to BMJ, Wakefield received more than 435,000 pounds (about $674,000) from lawyers trying to build a case against vaccine manufacturers -- a serious conflict of interest he failed to disclose. Most of his co-authors abandoned the study in 2004, when those payments were revealed.

The now-discredited paper panicked many parents and led to a sharp drop in the number of children getting the vaccine that prevents measles, mumps and rubella. Vaccination rates dropped sharply in Britain after its publication, falling as low as 80% by 2004. Measles cases have gone up sharply in the ensuing years.

In the United States, more cases of measles were reported in 2008 than in any other year since 1997, according to the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention. More than 90% of those infected had not been vaccinated or their vaccination status was unknown, the CDC reported.


Seemingly as a result of Wakefield's "research," vaccinations fell sharply in the US and Britain, leading to a rise of disease. I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?

The only vaccination I've ever refused was the H1N1 vaccine, because I knew that my chances of getting it were incredibly low and the vaccine had a 20+% chance of getting symptoms ranging from a fever, sore arm, swelling, or headaches (also my doctor came at me like a salesperson while pitching it; total turn-off). Other than that, I've been totally vaccinated.
#2 Jan 12 2011 at 8:09 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?
You mean other than government mind control implants injected through vaccines?
#3 Jan 12 2011 at 8:17 AM Rating: Excellent
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The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?
You mean other than government mind control implants injected through vaccines?


I was thinking besides egg allergies, but y'know, that works too Smiley: tongue
#4 Jan 12 2011 at 9:03 AM Rating: Good
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Seemingly as a result of Wakefield's "research," vaccinations fell sharply in the US and Britain, leading to a rise of disease. I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?

Do you really not understand? Most people live in a world devoid of rational thought, functioning solely on the human species' evolved, deeply flawed, pattern recognition engine. On this level, information is weighted not by the integrity of the source of the information, but by the familiarity of the source and the frequency the information is repeated.

So:

Far away medical journal conducts exhaustive review and determines there was fraud = -1
Drunken aunt states that MMR vaccine will put child at risk of autism, 5 times = 10*5
Doctor suggests vaccinating child, once = 5

Bias required to prevent vaccination = 1, actual bias = (10*5)-(5+1) == 44.

This is genuinely how decision making works for most people. Exploitation of this phenomenon is rampant, and is the basis of nearly all modern public relations/advertising/political theory. Those capable of applying reason desperately need to more accurately understand this in order to make the case for the facts. They need to remove their own inherent bias for accuracy and work *much harder* on repetition and engaging emotion and familiarity.


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#5 Jan 12 2011 at 9:49 AM Rating: Good
Smash wrote:
Far away medical journal conducts exhaustive review and determines there was fraud = -1
Drunken aunt states that MMR vaccine will put child at risk of autism, 5 times = 10*5
Doctor suggests vaccinating child, once = 5

Bias required to prevent vaccination = 1, actual bias = (10*5)-(5+1) == 44.



But Smash, you forgot the Jenny McCarthy factor. That'll throw your equations way off.
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#6 Jan 12 2011 at 10:07 AM Rating: Good
LockeColeMA wrote:

Seemingly as a result of Wakefield's "research," vaccinations fell sharply in the US and Britain, leading to a rise of disease. I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?


I don't know about the reasons for withholding vaccines completely and nor do I agree with such a thing. I do know some parents that have their children on a delayed vaccination schedule. The reason for this is so that if there is a reaction to the vaccine it will be easier to pinpoint the cause instead of giving a child 3 or 4 different ones at one time and not being able to tell which may have caused the reaction or problem. I think that this is very logical. These kids are completely caught up with their shots by the time they get to school they just get them 1 or 2 at a time instead of 3 or 4. It means more trips to the doctors but I think it’s worth it.
#7 Jan 12 2011 at 10:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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LockeColeMA wrote:
I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?

The pretty blonde lady who was a guest on Oprah told me to.
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#8 Jan 12 2011 at 10:40 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
LockeColeMA wrote:
I guess I'm wondering... do parents have another reason for withholding vaccines from their kids?

The pretty blonde lady who was a guest on Oprah told me to.

How anyone can take anything Tits McGee has to say seriously is beyond me.
#9 Jan 12 2011 at 10:41 AM Rating: Excellent
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Oprah wouldn't have her on if she wasn't credible.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#10 Jan 12 2011 at 10:47 AM Rating: Good
Jophiel wrote:
Oprah wouldn't have her on if she wasn't credible.

She's swapped out the Cruise couch then?
#11 Jan 12 2011 at 10:54 AM Rating: Excellent
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Tom Cruise saved me from the Thetans who wanted to vaccinate my baby :(
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Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#12 Jan 12 2011 at 10:58 AM Rating: Good
Dodged a bullet on that one.
#13 Jan 12 2011 at 11:01 AM Rating: Decent
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I think that this is very logical.


You're wrong. Do you fucking see why? Do you see why it is NOT "logical" to decide that by virtue of having participated in something nearly 100% of the population is capable of doing, having unprotected sex and squeezing out offspring, that parents are somehow magically granted equal decision making merit with people who have spent entire careers and in some cases *lives* determine the best schedule to immunize children on?

Holy ****, you crab hammering ******* yokel, do you also find it "logical" to take children out of car seats on long journeys since most accidents happen within 5 miles from home? I mean, why not. There are downsides to leaving them strapped into the things, right? It only seems prudent to make the moderate decision to let them roam freely after the initial danger is past, right?

Thanks for highlighting the problem, idiot.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#14 Jan 12 2011 at 11:04 AM Rating: Good
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MoebiusLord wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Oprah wouldn't have her on if she wasn't credible.

She's swapped out the Cruise couch then?


When it deals with crazy, Oprah plays for both teams.
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#15 Jan 12 2011 at 11:12 AM Rating: Good
Shaowstrike the Shady wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Jophiel wrote:
Oprah wouldn't have her on if she wasn't credible.

She's swapped out the Cruise couch then?


When it deals with crazy, Oprah plays for both teams.

I think you're underselling it a bit, yeah? She doesn't just play, she captains both teams.
#16 Jan 12 2011 at 5:23 PM Rating: Good
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McCarthy is an idiot.

I do however delay vaccinations to ensure if anything does have a negative effect we can more easily figure out what it was and why. So far no issues, aside from Chicken Pox and that *is* one vaccine I dont want my 2 younger kids getting after Xavier had such a negative reaction he ended up hospitalized. However they may have to if I cant get them exposed naturally before they enter school. I'll still delay that particular one for as long as possible. But the serious stuff like MMR? Get your kids vaccinated for their own safety.

#17 Jan 12 2011 at 5:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:

I think that this is very logical.


You're wrong. Do you fucking see why? Do you see why it is NOT "logical" to decide that by virtue of having participated in something nearly 100% of the population is capable of doing, having unprotected sex and squeezing out offspring, that parents are somehow magically granted equal decision making merit with people who have spent entire careers and in some cases *lives* determine the best schedule to immunize children on?


This would be a valid point if all of those people who have spent their entire careers doing so agreed on the correct number and schedule for vaccinations.

But they don't.
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#18 Jan 12 2011 at 6:07 PM Rating: Decent
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This would be a valid point if all of those people who have spent their entire careers doing so agreed on the correct number and schedule for vaccinations.

But they don't.


Incorrect. It's as valid a point.

Do you see why?



I do however delay vaccinations to ensure if anything does have a negative effect we can more easily figure out what it was and why. So far no issues, aside from Chicken Pox and that *is* one vaccine I dont want my 2 younger kids getting after Xavier had such a negative reaction he ended up hospitalized. However they may have to if I cant get them exposed naturally before they enter school


Yeah, the risk of serious injury only increases 1000 fold "getting them exposed" instead of vaccinating. Good parenting.

Here's a tip, something bad happening TO SOMEONE YOU KNOW, doesn't make it more likely to happen to SOMEONE ELSE YOU KNOW.
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Disclaimer:

To make a long story short, I don't take any responsibility for anything I post here. It's not news, it's not truth, it's not serious. It's parody. It's satire. It's bitter. It's angsty. Your mother's a *****. You like to jack off dogs. That's right, you heard me. You like to grab that dog by the bone and rub it like a ski pole. Your dad? Gay. Your priest? Straight. **** off and let me post. It's not true, it's all in good fun. Now go away.

#19 Jan 12 2011 at 6:24 PM Rating: Good
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Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?
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#20 Jan 12 2011 at 6:37 PM Rating: Excellent
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Smasharoo wrote:

This would be a valid point if all of those people who have spent their entire careers doing so agreed on the correct number and schedule for vaccinations.

But they don't.


Incorrect. It's as valid a point.


Only if what the parents are proposing isn't something that any medical professional recommends anywhere in the world. Which isn't the case. One of the points brought up in the linked article was that the US recommends 36 different vaccinations while other nations (like such medically backwards nations as Denmark and Japan) only recommend 12.

I don't think it's wrong at all for a parent in the US to suspect that the US might be over vaccinating their children. And given that different nations with such radically different total sets of vaccinations also presumably vaccinate on different schedules (they'd have to), it's pretty ridiculous to assume that because some bean counter in a government health office came up with a vaccination schedule that this is the only safe or even the most safe way to do it.

Unless you have evidence to suggest othewise?

Quote:
Do you see why?


Of course! However, I don't agree that the massive number of assumptions which would make your point valid actually exist. And since you've failed to provide any, I'll continue to treat your assertion with exactly the amount of weight it deserves. ;)
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#21 Jan 12 2011 at 6:41 PM Rating: Decent
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Smasharoo wrote:
Yeah, the risk of serious injury only increases 1000 fold "getting them exposed" instead of vaccinating. Good parenting.


Serious injury? Really?

Quote:
Here's a tip, something bad happening TO SOMEONE YOU KNOW, doesn't make it more likely to happen to SOMEONE ELSE YOU KNOW.


When the first someone is a sibling of the second someone, and the subject is a medical reaction, then it does actually make it more likely. Way to strip out the context though!
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#22 Jan 12 2011 at 6:43 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?

Yep and its mandatory to either have it or have had a documented case of the illness itself before entering public school now. I dont know if its changed since Xavier got it as an infant, but when he got the vaccine they thought it would give permanent immunity only to find out it wears off after a few years. He unfortunately, had a very bad reaction to it. I blame my genetics because I have had Chicken Pox 3 (yes 3) times. So Im wary about the other 2 getting the vacs knowing my personal history and Xaviers severe reaction to that particular vaccine.
#23 Jan 12 2011 at 6:59 PM Rating: Decent
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Lady DSD wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?

Yep and its mandatory to either have it or have had a documented case of the illness itself before entering public school now. I dont know if its changed since Xavier got it as an infant, but when he got the vaccine they thought it would give permanent immunity only to find out it wears off after a few years. He unfortunately, had a very bad reaction to it. I blame my genetics because I have had Chicken Pox 3 (yes 3) times. So Im wary about the other 2 getting the vacs knowing my personal history and Xaviers severe reaction to that particular vaccine.

Na, that's *got* to be just coincidence. You're putting your family at risk by not sticking them like pincushions!
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#24 Jan 12 2011 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Lady DSD wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?

Yep and its mandatory to either have it or have had a documented case of the illness itself before entering public school now. I dont know if its changed since Xavier got it as an infant, but when he got the vaccine they thought it would give permanent immunity only to find out it wears off after a few years. He unfortunately, had a very bad reaction to it. I blame my genetics because I have had Chicken Pox 3 (yes 3) times. So Im wary about the other 2 getting the vacs knowing my personal history and Xaviers severe reaction to that particular vaccine.

Na, that's *got* to be just coincidence. You're putting your family at risk by not sticking them like pincushions!


Or raising chickens inside your home.
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#25 Jan 12 2011 at 7:24 PM Rating: Good
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Debalic wrote:
Lady DSD wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?

Yep and its mandatory to either have it or have had a documented case of the illness itself before entering public school now. I dont know if its changed since Xavier got it as an infant, but when he got the vaccine they thought it would give permanent immunity only to find out it wears off after a few years. He unfortunately, had a very bad reaction to it. I blame my genetics because I have had Chicken Pox 3 (yes 3) times. So Im wary about the other 2 getting the vacs knowing my personal history and Xaviers severe reaction to that particular vaccine.

Na, that's *got* to be just coincidence. You're putting your family at risk by not sticking them like pincushions!


Would *you* risk Thom if you had the same situations happen? Truly curious
#26 Jan 12 2011 at 7:56 PM Rating: Good
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Lady DSD wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Lady DSD wrote:
Debalic wrote:
Holy shit, there's a chicken pox vaccine? Where was this twenty years ago?

Yep and its mandatory to either have it or have had a documented case of the illness itself before entering public school now. I dont know if its changed since Xavier got it as an infant, but when he got the vaccine they thought it would give permanent immunity only to find out it wears off after a few years. He unfortunately, had a very bad reaction to it. I blame my genetics because I have had Chicken Pox 3 (yes 3) times. So Im wary about the other 2 getting the vacs knowing my personal history and Xaviers severe reaction to that particular vaccine.

Na, that's *got* to be just coincidence. You're putting your family at risk by not sticking them like pincushions!

Would *you* risk Thom if you had the same situations happen? Truly curious

Oh come on, I'm just joking. Poking fun at Smash's statements. If you can't laugh at crippling your own children with common diseases then what can you laugh at?
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