http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052702304786904575580972651181824.html?mod=WSJ_hp_MIDDLENexttoWhatsNewsThird
lmao...now top Dem leaders are begging their Dem bretheren to drop out and support independents in an attempt to thwart those upstart tea partiers.
And where is the she-beast during this latest Democrat meltdown? Don't worry, I don't really expect any of you to know/care where she is because you still think Obama has a chance in 2012.
The only quesion is how bad it's going to get for the Dems on Tues.
H*ll maybe Obama is secretly working with the GOP to ***** up the Democrat party because he knows the GOP are the only ones who stand a chance of fixing this economy the dem congress has been ******** up the last 4yrs.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 11:32am by varusword75
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Shocking.
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An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
I suppose if I was more of an ideologue, this realpolitik would disturb me.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
I'm not American, but I don't think Obama will be elected for a second term.
He won't get elected because he's not a god fearing gun totin rich white dude. He's smart and does what should be done to ensure a prosperous future instead of catering to the rich. As most of the American population is rather lacking in their ability to think 10 feet in front of them, or about anyone but themselves, they buy into all the absurd crap the right wingers spew about him. Seriously, some of that stuff is just way out there. The fact that some of that crap manages to spread really says something to the outside world about American minds. So he won't be re-elected, because people are stupid.
From the outside looking in (we don't get bombarded with all of the propaganda that you do) your president is the most logical, methodical, intelligent leader you've had in a very long time.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 1:35pm by Yodabunny
He won't get elected because he's not a god fearing gun totin rich white dude. He's smart and does what should be done to ensure a prosperous future instead of catering to the rich. As most of the American population is rather lacking in their ability to think 10 feet in front of them, or about anyone but themselves, they buy into all the absurd crap the right wingers spew about him. Seriously, some of that stuff is just way out there. The fact that some of that crap manages to spread really says something to the outside world about American minds. So he won't be re-elected, because people are stupid.
From the outside looking in (we don't get bombarded with all of the propaganda that you do) your president is the most logical, methodical, intelligent leader you've had in a very long time.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 1:35pm by Yodabunny
With the current GOP field of potentials, Obama should win in a walk. But someone might come in who makes it a real race.
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Yodabunny wrote:
He won't get elected because he's not a god fearing gun totin rich white dude. He's smart and does what should be done to ensure a prosperous future instead of catering to the rich.
I'm just curious to hear a Canadian's perspective. What has he done to ensure a prosperous future?
Yodabunny wrote:
From the outside looking in (we don't get bombarded with all of the propaganda that you do) your president is the most logical, methodical, intelligent leader you've had in a very long time.
If he's what qualifies as logical & intelligent for you maybe we should start substituting demonstrated effectiveness with teleprompters everywhere. Reading pre-written responses to questions is apparently more effective than coming up with a real answer.
MoebiusLord wrote:
Reading pre-written responses to questions is apparently more effective than coming up with a real answer.
"Strategery."
Nadenu wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Reading pre-written responses to questions is apparently more effective than coming up with a real answer.
"Strategery."
"A very long time" is typically more than 10 years. GW was an inarticulate boob who mangled the English language in ways not typically witnessed outside of the Confederacy, but he isn't the only president to have served in "a very long time".
MoebiusLord wrote:
I'm just curious to hear a Canadian's perspective. What has he done to ensure a prosperous future?
I'd give the Healthcare bill half a point. It's better than what you had (atleast now everyone will have coverage), but he did a terrible job of leading that process. It, imo, should have been far more encompassing than it is.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
#11REDACTED,
Posted: Oct 29 2010 at 12:40 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix5/Stantis_ObamaBowsInJapan_.JPG
varusword75 wrote:
Ugly,
lmao...the only reason they like him is because he's a p*ssy and a pushover. Just the kind of leadership liberals dream of.
It's completely f*cked up the best healthcare system in the world.
Quote:
He's helped reduce tensions between America and other countries. Given that we're no longer isolated entirely in NA and that the world continually shifts to a global everything, that's important.
lmao...the only reason they like him is because he's a p*ssy and a pushover. Just the kind of leadership liberals dream of.
Quote:
I'd give the Healthcare bill half a point. It's better than what you had (atleast now everyone will have coverage), but he did a terrible job of leading that process. It, imo, should have been far more encompassing than it is.
It's completely f*cked up the best healthcare system in the world.
Wow, he must be powerful to destroy France's healthcare system!
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Technogeek wrote:
varusword75 wrote:
Ugly,
lmao...the only reason they like him is because he's a p*ssy and a pushover. Just the kind of leadership liberals dream of.
It's completely f*cked up the best healthcare system in the world.
Quote:
He's helped reduce tensions between America and other countries. Given that we're no longer isolated entirely in NA and that the world continually shifts to a global everything, that's important.
lmao...the only reason they like him is because he's a p*ssy and a pushover. Just the kind of leadership liberals dream of.
Quote:
I'd give the Healthcare bill half a point. It's better than what you had (atleast now everyone will have coverage), but he did a terrible job of leading that process. It, imo, should have been far more encompassing than it is.
It's completely f*cked up the best healthcare system in the world.
Wow, he must be powerful to destroy France's healthcare system!
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
Hey, that's from 2000. I'm sure we've jumped 36 ranks in the last decade!
Uglysasquatch wrote:
He's helped reduce tensions between America and other countries. Given that we're no longer isolated entirely in NA and that the world continually shifts to a global everything, that's important.
I'd wager there are more of us who don't give a f'uck what other countries think than there are those that do.
Uglysasquatch wrote:
I'd give the Healthcare bill half a point. It's better than what you had (atleast now everyone will have coverage), but he did a terrible job of leading that process. It, imo, should have been far more encompassing than it is.
So the propaganda worked then. The thing is the CBO estimates that by 2016 nearly 23 million people will still be uninsured. Given a range of 40-50 million "without" now, that seems like a pretty sh;tty trade off (pissing off a huge chunk of the American population, ******** chances at further agenda items, etc) for a POS pseudo-solution.
MoebiusLord wrote:
The thing is the CBO estimates that by 2016 nearly 23 million people will still be uninsured.
Either because they are illegal immigrants unable to access it or by choice.
Quote:
Although the Congressional Budget Office estimates that the healthcare overhaul will eventually cover 32 million more Americans, it admits that about 23 million people will still be left out of "universal healthcare" by 2019.
Seven million undocumented immigrants, who are excluded, make up the first third of the group that will remain uninsured. Experts presume that the other 16 million will be made up of people who don't have to, or choose not to purchase health insurance under the mandate.
Seven million undocumented immigrants, who are excluded, make up the first third of the group that will remain uninsured. Experts presume that the other 16 million will be made up of people who don't have to, or choose not to purchase health insurance under the mandate.
The CBO says that there are 50 million uninsured now (Page 7 of PDF) so that's over a 50% reduction of uninsured with the bulk of the remainder making the conscious choice not to be insured. Nearly anyone who wants insurance will have it available. Sounds like a good trade-off to me.
Edit: Article from Kaiser further describing the uninsured mentioned in the CBO report. There's a thin margin of people who would make too much for Medicaid but little enough to be exempt from the mandate but most fall into the "healthy young adults who chose not to purchase" category. An amount of people who may want but can't access it isn't optimal but that's something that can be fixed rather than saying it's not worth trying to cover people at all if you can't cover 100% of them.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 2:16pm by Jophiel
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
varusword75 wrote:
http://www.rumormillnews.com/pix5/Stantis_ObamaBowsInJapan_.JPG
W had a problem pronouncing a few words Obama has a problem bowing to every foreign leader he meets.
Yeah, that was receiving an award, but Christ, it's such a stupid issue.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 2:13pm by Sweetums
Jophiel wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
The thing is the CBO estimates that by 2016 nearly 23 million people will still be uninsured.
Either because they are illegal immigrants unable to access it or by choice.
Quote:
Where's this from?
I would love to see where 7,000,000 undocumented workers comes from. Presumably it's that same number that changes by 15-20 million depending on the argument that needs to be defended.
Jophiel wrote:
The CBO says that there are 50 million uninsured now (Page 7 of PDF) so that's over a 50% reduction of uninsured with the bulk of the remainder making the conscious choice not to be insured. Anyone who wants insurance will have it available. Sounds like a good trade-off to me.
How many of the 50 million people in the CBO document are illegal or not insured by choice?
MoebiusLord wrote:
If he's what qualifies as logical & intelligent for you maybe we should start substituting demonstrated effectiveness with teleprompters everywhere. Reading pre-written responses to questions is apparently more effective than coming up with a real answer.
I was impressed with his Q&A he had with the GOP a while ago. That certainly wasn't teleprompted.
MoebiusLord wrote:
Uglysasquatch wrote:
He's helped reduce tensions between America and other countries. Given that we're no longer isolated entirely in NA and that the world continually shifts to a global everything, that's important.
I'd wager there are more of us who don't give a f'uck what other countries think than there are those that do.
Edited, Oct 29th 2010 2:31pm by Xsarus
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
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MoebiusLord wrote:
I would love to see where 7,000,000 undocumented workers comes from.
It's from the CBO report. Since their numbers are good enough to whine about the health care bill, I assume their numbers are also good enough to remark upon.
Quote:
How many of the 50 million people in the CBO document are illegal or not insured by choice?
Presumably the 7mil number doesn't change for illegal aliens. As for the number uninsured by choice:
Kaiser Health News wrote:
An Employment Policies Institute study found that 43 percent of the uninsured – about 20 million people - earn more than 2.5 times the federal poverty level, or $55,125 for a family of four. The authors – who include June O'Neill, the GOP-appointed head of the Congressional Budget Office from 1995 to 1999 - write "because most people at that income level are able to get insurance, (they) thus may be classified as 'voluntarily' uninsured."
So there's approximately 20 million who voluntarily don't buy insurance and seven million more aliens. From the sound of it, the law will cover essentially everyone who wants insurance but can't get it leaving 23 million remaining: the same 7,000,000 aliens and now 16 million who voluntarily opt-out (and some remainders who are stuck between income levels, etc).
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
Moe wrote:
I'd wager there are more of us who have never been to other countries than there are those that have.
FTFY.
And
"If you have selfish, ignorant citizens, you're gonna get selfish, ignorant leaders". Carlin.
MoebiusLord wrote:
I'd wager there are more of us who don't give a f'uck what other countries think than there are those that do.
MoebiusLord wrote:
The thing is the CBO estimates that by 2016 nearly 23 million people will still be uninsured. Given a range of 40-50 million "without" now, that seems like a pretty sh;tty trade off (pissing off a huge chunk of the American population, ******** chances at further agenda items, etc) for a POS pseudo-solution.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
MoebiusLord wrote:
Nadenu wrote:
MoebiusLord wrote:
Reading pre-written responses to questions is apparently more effective than coming up with a real answer.
"Strategery."
"A very long time" is typically more than 10 years. GW was an inarticulate boob who mangled the English language in ways not typically witnessed outside of the Confederacy, but he isn't the only president to have served in "a very long time".
See, there you go thinking I care. I just think strategery is a funny "word".
Nadenu wrote:
See, there you go thinking I care. I just think strategery is a funny "word".
No one can refudiate that.
Technogeek wrote:
Wow, he must be powerful to destroy France's healthcare system!
http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html
I always get a kick out of people who blindly link to rankings like this without looking at the methodology:
Quote:
WHO’s assessment system was based on five indicators: overall level of population health; health inequalities (or disparities) within the population; overall level of health system responsiveness (a combination of patient satisfaction and how well the system acts); distribution of responsiveness within the population (how well people of varying economic status find that they are served by the health system); and the distribution of the health system’s financial burden within the population (who pays the costs).
3 of the 5 categories the WHO based its ranking on basically just measure the degree to which the health care industry in a given country is socialized. So it's kind of a cart leading horse ranking. It's certainly meaningless to use this ranking in a debate about whether or not socialized medicine is a good way to manage health care (for what should be obvious reasons). But that doesn't stop the uniformed from doing it anyway!
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
Jophiel wrote:
It's from the CBO report. Since their numbers are good enough to whine about the health care bill, I assume their numbers are also good enough to remark upon.
I don't see 7mil on p.7 which you referenced.
Jophiel wrote:
So there's approximately 20 million who voluntarily don't buy insurance and seven million more aliens. From the sound of it, the law will cover essentially everyone who wants insurance but can't get it leaving 23 million remaining: the same 7,000,000 aliens and now 16 million who voluntarily opt-out (and some remainders who are stuck between income levels, etc).
That's fairly convenient, and fuzzy, math.
50m uncovered
7m illegals (not a CBO number that I can find)
20m poverty+150% (not a CBO number)
23m other
23m uncovered
7m illegals (not a CBO number that I can find)
16m poverty+150% (23m not a CBO number - 7m people who magically now want coverage)
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