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#27REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 3:18 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Well some laws are stupid. Like those tweens who are sexting to their friends and are labeled a sexual offender. How stupid is that to frame yourself? New Jersey is stupid if they have this law. But then again, nothing ever good came out of NJ.
#28 Sep 30 2010 at 3:22 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Princess ShadorVIII wrote:
You fail, you bigoted prick.


How am I bigoted because I said this guy was unstable? Emotionally unstable people tend to commit suicide, that's a proven fact. My one grandfather I never got to meet took his life over a stressful situation. The article I read said that he was a "quiet kid" that kept to himself. So explain to me how anyone would of known the consequences of this "harmless" prank? All I'm saying here is that their actions were NOT meant to be taken this serious. I've have roommates video tape me before because my gf was too loud and kept them up. I didn't say "Oh let me jump off a bridge now". If you don't understand my post, ask me for more details before you shoot off your mouth. All I'm saying here is that these kids shouldn't be blamed for murder as Tyler was already unstable.


How do you go from "quiet kid" to emotionally unstable. No one ever said he had any sort of mental illness, or having problems with depression. You have no basis for calling him emotionally unstable, other than the fact he committed suicide after this incident, that actually happened more than once I might add. They video taped him twice.

And did you not read my post where this can't be called a "harmless" prank.

Hyolith wrote:
Though had you read the article. It is against the law, at least in New Jersey to video tape someone without their consent, let alone posting it on the internet. Therefore there is every right to blame the two students, which totally negates them being "harmless."


And just because you don't care that your friends taped you having sex with your girlfriend doesn't mean it wouldn't be detrimental to someone else. But that in no way makes them emotionally unstable.

Also they aren't being charged with murder. Though I'm sure people really want them to be they can't be. They are being charged with "invasion of privacy." Learn to read the facts first.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 4:23pm by Hyolith
#29 Sep 30 2010 at 3:33 PM Rating: Decent
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Hyolith wrote:
How do you go from "quiet kid" to emotionally unstable.



By jumping off a bridge after getting outed.
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#30REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 3:33 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) I read other articles on this topic, not the one listed in the OP. So maybe now that I've explained myself, you'll see where I was coming from here. There are a lot of people who are looking for ways to prosecute these 2 freshman on more serious charges including murder. I realize the "Invasion" charge is all they get at the moment, but I'm more concerned about the future of incidents such as this one. In the near future, people might go to jail for 50 years if the person kills themselves. The offense legal or not, is a joke and should be a slap on the wrist at best. The only reason people are making an issue out of this is because someone died. Nobody would be touting the law over something so trivial if a life wasn't lost.
#31 Sep 30 2010 at 3:39 PM Rating: Good
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Well some laws are stupid.


Yes, some laws are stupid. This is not one of them. Video taping two people having sex against their consent and distributing it? It's not stupid to have a law about that. I'm not sure what world you live in where that should be ok.
#32 Sep 30 2010 at 3:43 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
The offense legal or not, is a joke and should be a slap on the wrist at best.


Oh **** off.

You don't ever get to get off with a "slap on the wrist" for videotaping anybody naked, or having sex, without their consent. Especially not if you then go and put it on the internet. It's a very serious crime.
#33 Sep 30 2010 at 3:54 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I said he was quiet. Now because of this we can logically deduce because he was quiet..IE kept to himself... people including his roommate didn't know how he would react to be exposed. Turn on your TV and watch any of those celebrity shows. The sheer amount of gossip you hear on those programs is enough to make you scream.


If they didn't know how he would react they just shouldn't have done it in the first place. There was no reason for doing what they did. They had only been in school, as roommates for about a month. That's definitely not a lot of time to get to know people. He was apparently a polite guy for asking for some privacy which he obviously didn't receive. You could almost say it was an anti-gay act. Obviously we don't know the entire story behind Tyler and his roommates relationship but it's pretty obvious his roommate knew he was gay and went ahead with it.

ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
I read other articles on this topic, not the one listed in the OP. So maybe now that I've explained myself, you'll see where I was coming from here. There are a lot of people who are looking for ways to prosecute these 2 freshman on more serious charges including murder. I realize the "Invasion" charge is all they get at the moment, but I'm more concerned about the future of incidents such as this one. In the near future, people might go to jail for 50 years if the person kills themselves. The offense legal or not, is a joke and should be a slap on the wrist at best. The only reason people are making an issue out of this is because someone died. Nobody would be touting the law over something so trivial if a life wasn't lost.


I understand the article in the OP wasn't the best article. Which is why I posted a couple others. Though you can still go out and find them all over anyways.

I'm sure in the near future there will be laws put into place that will allow offenders to be charged with more serious offenses that will put them away for a lot longer. There always has to be consequences for your actions. Take the MySpace hoax incident with the girl. They didn't know she would commit suicide either. But in the end they were pretty much the reason she lost her life. I don't know what the final outcome of that case was. I don't know if she was ever charged with anything or not. But there has to be some sort of consequence for the action you take.

So, yes I believe in the future they will implement laws that will allow you to be charged with some form of murder and they are right to do so.
#34 Sep 30 2010 at 3:58 PM Rating: Good
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Yeah, distributing the video was bad. But I'm of the opinion that most people can't be talked or coerced into committing suicide. It's like that kid a long time ago that killed himself and his mother blamed EQ. I feel like in both of these cases, there was more going on than just a video/video game.

JMO, YMMV.
#35 Sep 30 2010 at 4:02 PM Rating: Good
Elinda wrote:
The kid was 18, his roomie and friend probably around the same age. They're still kids. They're still emo. They're still vying for popularity and still not fully empathetic to others.

What the room-mate and his friend did was mean, cruel, but hardly more than a school-boy prank. They've been charged with invasion of privacy. Wonder how severe of a crime that is. The boy that killed himself obviously had troubles that ran deeper than an insensitive roomie and exposure of his sexuality.

He's also now a statistic. I dunno, maybe it's an obvious correlation, but fairly recent studies are supporting that homosexuality is a huge risk factor for suicide in teens.


Oh, yes, filming people having sex and putting it up on the internet is just a school boy prank, totally fucking harmless. And they're "roomies", of course - what a lovely little diminutive - so everything's candy hearts and fluffy bunnies, right? It's all just a little joke that some headcase took way too seriously, right? It's his fault he's dead, really.

Stupid EXPLETIVE DELETED!

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 6:43pm by Vlorsutes
#36REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 4:36 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You're not making much sense. This was a prank, not some ill-fated crusade to hurt someone on purpose. It's a sad story to read, but it's no more depressing than that Canadian guy who turned his car while driving to avoid the oncoming car hitting his pregnant wife. We don't need more laws as they only make things worse. Some people want to blame the technology of webcams which I disagree with 100%. If this guy were my roommate when I was 18 years old, I would of told people he was gay by word of mouth. We all know what happens when you tell one person a "rumor" like that. It snowballs just like the internet does and before you know it, everyone in school knows about it.
#37 Sep 30 2010 at 4:37 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Well some laws are stupid. Like those tweens who are sexting to their friends and are labeled a sexual offender. How stupid is that to frame yourself? New Jersey is stupid if they have this law. But then again, nothing ever good came out of NJ.

I dunno; I've always liked Bruce Springsteen.
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#38 Sep 30 2010 at 4:39 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Well some laws are stupid. Like those tweens who are sexting to their friends and are labeled a sexual offender. How stupid is that to frame yourself? New Jersey is stupid if they have this law. But then again, nothing ever good came out of NJ.

I dunno; I've always liked Bruce Springsteen.


Well, nobody's perfect.
#39 Sep 30 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Excellent
Quote:
We're arguing if it's lawful to take naked footage of others and post it online. Well it doesn't matter because the footage was just other form of expression. The word of mouth from his roommate would of accomplished the same thing. We're ultimately talking about someone's life, are we not?


******.

Quote:
He could of just thought it was a harmless prank to continue recording the following incident which led to the gay sex.


Maybe. Complete imbecility is no excuse before the law; it doesn't matter.
#40 Sep 30 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Decent
I can imagine a future where no one would think this would be especially cruel to do to a homosexual, because homosexuality will be as tolerated as heterosexuality. Perhaps this is because I live where I do. (Not to say we are perfect; we just a couple years back had a kid in middle school killed for being gay.)

All those posts here advocating for special rules against homosexuality, be it in civilian or military life, and that tiny fraction (of our amazingly openminded forum population) of posters who are creating the hateful environment which this boy decided he could not live in?

This is what you are fighting to hold on to.

Enjoy it while it lasts for you, because it will be gone in the future.

#41 Sep 30 2010 at 4:48 PM Rating: Excellent
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Quote:
You're speculating that his roommate knew he was gay prior to the 1st webcam incident. Maybe the kissing(first webcam stream) was done by his roommate because he was curious what his roomie was doing in their room. He could of just thought it was a harmless prank to continue recording the following incident which led to the gay sex.


Now's the time for another episode of good idea/bad idea.

Your roommate asks for the room for a few hours.

1. Good idea: Talk to your RA about being sexiled.
2. Bad idea: Secretly tape him and stream it online.

No, let's rename this "Good idea, illegal and idiotic idea."

Shadow, I can see where you're coming from. 99+% of the time pranks are harmless. Hazing doesn't always lead to terrible consequences. But everyone knows that it can turn horrific. It's like playing binge drinking, drunk driving, or bullying. The vast majority of the time it ends up ok and no one gets hurt... at least not seriously. But there are laws and rules in place because it's been shown that people can and eventually will get hurt for these things.

At my alma-mater, hazing was banned by the school. People who hazed others would be suspended, or expelled for repeat offenses. Frats would be kicked off campus. it was taken VERY seriously. Any official group activity needed approval. A sorority friend of mine noted that they couldn't do a scavenger hunt because once upon a time someone claimed it was hazing. It can be over the top, but it's because it can go very wrong. It's all fun and games until someone gets hurt. Someone got hurt here, and the people who set it up deserve punishment.

Quote:
The truth is until we have all the facts, we can only go on logic. People that are abnormally quiet typically have low self esteem and are more prone to depression. Those are facts, not opinions. The fact that his bf didn't jump off the bridge with him proves to me that Tyler was the one that was mentality unstable.


And yet none of this changes the fact that the two students broke the law. They should still be charged.
Quote:
This was a prank, not some ill-fated crusade to hurt someone on purpose.

Which is why I think it should not be a hate crime. They should without a doubt still be charged.
#42REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 4:50 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) You definitely have a mouth on you, care to elaborate. Are you denying that "rumors" could of just as easily accomplished the same "outing" as the video? It seems pretty clear that the "outing" is what led Tyler to kill himself. It doesn't matter how Tyler was forced out of closest. The cause is still the same. Should we put people in jail because they were spreading rumors? It isn't slander if it's true. :P
#43 Sep 30 2010 at 4:58 PM Rating: Decent
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I believe it could be considered a hate crime. The roommate filmed Tyler on 2 separate occasions, one being kissing another male the other must have involved sex. After the first video taping and seeing that Tyler is indeed kissing another man you could easily come to the conclusion that Tyler is either curious or gay. Then doing it again knowing full well what is going to happen is going beyond a little prank. Which is where I think it could be considered a hate crime, because at the second taping the roommate had must have had a guess about Tyler's sexuality.

Now I know the 2 won't be charged with any of that and I'm not saying they should be. I'm just saying how one could consider it a hate crime.
#44REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 5:01 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) What thread are you reading? I must of missed the "special rules" against gays. I don't see any hate speech towards gays either. As a matter of fact, the only hatred in this thread is being aimed at me probably because I'm impartial. In the case you cannot read well enough to understand my points, let me reiterate in saying that nobody should be jailed/fined in this situation. Some say the law of NJ claims this action is an invasion of privacy, I say that the law is NOT constitutional and should be challenged. Look at how many time abortion laws shifts depending on who is in office. We all know the only reason why abortion is ever considered illegal is because of religious reasons, never logical.
#45 Sep 30 2010 at 5:05 PM Rating: Good
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I vehemently oppose the idea of hate crimes, but that doesn't make Shadow any less of an idiot.

Shadow wrote:
As a matter of fact, the only hatred in this thread is being aimed at me probably because I'm impartial.


Oh my god...I think he's Alma.

Edited, Sep 30th 2010 7:06pm by Eske
#46 Sep 30 2010 at 5:07 PM Rating: Excellent
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
As a matter of fact, the only hatred in this thread is being aimed at me probably because I'm impartial.


Considering your reasoning has been "Hey, this wouldn't bother me!" I'd say this is decidedly untrue :-P
#47 Sep 30 2010 at 5:13 PM Rating: Excellent
ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:

******.


You definitely have a mouth on you, care to elaborate. Are you denying that "rumors" could of just as easily accomplished the same "outing" as the video? It seems pretty clear that the "outing" is what led Tyler to kill himself. It doesn't matter how Tyler was forced out of closest. The cause is still the same. Should we put people in jail because they were spreading rumors? It isn't slander if it's true. :P


Are you totally fucked in the head?

Yes, there's a difference between concrete evidence and rumour and speculation, but that's not the issue here; the issue is that someone video taped someone else having sex and uploaded it to the internet. No, it's not clear it was the outing that led to his suicide, what on earth makes you think so? Even if it is true, how does it make any less of a crime to violate someone else's privacy in such a way? You're not some kind of intellectual, you're not the voice of reason crying out in the wilderness. We're not all clouded by our emotions, you're just a sociopath with no idea how people work and what is and isn't acceptable behaviour.

There's no niche here for your particular brand of idiocy - there are plenty of own-brand retards here that think they're fucking geniuses. Go back to you incestuous clusterfuck of a forum and stay there.
#48REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 5:16 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Seriously, how old are you... 12? I haven't seen you write anything productive in this entire thread beyond trolling snippets. If you want to understand why I have a certain opinion on an issue, ask me. Leave your trollish comments for someone else, thanks.
#49 Sep 30 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Good
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ShadowedgeFFXI wrote:
What thread are you reading? I must of missed the "special rules" against gays. I don't see any hate speech towards gays either. As a matter of fact, the only hatred in this thread is being aimed at me probably because I'm impartial. In the case you cannot read well enough to understand my points, let me reiterate in saying that nobody should be jailed/fined in this situation. Some say the law of NJ claims this action is an invasion of privacy, I say that the law is NOT constitutional and should be challenged. Look at how many time abortion laws shifts depending on who is in office. We all know the only reason why abortion is ever considered illegal is because of religious reasons, never logical.


Explain how this law is unconstitutional? If someone is filming me without my consent then I believe it is totally within my rights to tell them to stop or take action against them. They can concede the tape to me and if they don't they I have every right to press charges against them. In this case it couldn't go down like that it was straight up posted on the internet for all to see. So I don't see how this can come off as unconstitutional.

There could also be some action taken against the roommate or the iChat service he used to stream the video for explicit content. Though I don't know anything about the sevice used or it's Terms of Use which it could have that all covered in there.
#50REDACTED, Posted: Sep 30 2010 at 5:32 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Nope, that would be you. Of course there are differences between rumor and speculation, but let me ask you something. Do you think most people think Michael Jackson molested those kids? I don't mean by basing it entirely off the facts either. I mean by general common knowledge of all the people in the world. The pattern of behavior that Tyler exhibited is how I rationalize my theory. Gays are 4 times as likely to commit suicide. That's a cherry picked fact just for you. By the numbers, it's highly probable he killed himself because he was "outed" via the internet.
#51 Sep 30 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Good
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Hyolith wrote:
Explain how this law is unconstitutional? If someone is filming me without my consent then I believe it is totally within my rights to tell them to stop or take action against them. They can concede the tape to me and if they don't they I have every right to press charges against them.
I don't know how this works in the USA, but over here it is perfectly legal to photograph or record people in a public place. The issues start with publishing the material, the possible damage done to you and how recognizable you are.
Once you enter a private place it is no longer legal for me to even record anything without your consent and depending on where you record the conset of the owner of the property.

But if I choose to film you walking down the street you could yell at me for the tape/memory card all you want, you can **** right off and you have no right at anything.
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