http://news.yahoo.com/s/ap/us_rel_piercing_church
The religious card. 60% of the time it works, every time.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 2:55am by Ithrin
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- Highschool student states her nose ring is religious.
Highschool student states her nose ring is religious.Follow
High school students are idiots. End of story.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
High school students are idiots. End of story.
Quote:
Iacono and her mother, Nikki, belong to the Church of Body Modification, a small group unfamiliar to rural North Carolina, but one with a clergy, a statement of beliefs and a formal process for accepting new members.
It's enough to draw the interest of the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, which has contacted school officials with concerns that the rights of the Iaconos are being violated by the suspension.
It's enough to draw the interest of the state chapter of the American Civil Liberties Union, which has contacted school officials with concerns that the rights of the Iaconos are being violated by the suspension.
Shes 14? 14 year olds don't look 14 anymore.
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
High school students are idiots. End of story.
George Carlin wrote:
I think it’s the duty of the comedian to find out where the line is drawn and cross it deliberately.
lolgaxe wrote:
The One and Only Poldaran wrote:
lolgaxe wrote:
High school students are idiots. End of story.
I think the NC schools dug a hole for themselves by saying "If you were Muslim or Hindu it would be different."
Okay, so her family's religion is only 2 years old. In the eyes of the law, that shouldn't make it any less valid.
Okay, so her family's religion is only 2 years old. In the eyes of the law, that shouldn't make it any less valid.
This is why religion shouldn't get a free ride... I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. Then again almost all schools over here have a Uniform, which I don't think you do on that side of the pond.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 9:43am by Nilatai
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 9:43am by Nilatai
My Movember page
Solrain wrote:
WARs can use semi-colons however we want. I once killed a guy with a semi-colon.
LordFaramir wrote:
ODESNT MATTER CAUSE I HAVE ALCHOLOL IN MY VEINGS BETCH ;3
Nilatai wrote:
This is why religion shouldn't get a free ride... I'm all for freedom of expression, but this is ridiculous. Then again almost all schools over here have a Uniform, which I don't think you do on that side of the pond.
What's ridiculous? That a kid would want a nose-ring, that a school would disallow it or that a religion would sanctify it? Personally, I think it's ridiculous that a school would disallow a nose piercing in the first place. Bigger **** to focus on, people. If they can fUcking read I say let 'em poke holes wherever and fill 'em with whatever, God or not.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tinker_v_des_moines
This is what the schools use to stand on these days. Trust me, my school pulled that **** all the time. The court wanted a fair ruling, but they set a precedent saying that schools can decide if the student's "expression" is "disruptive", and if so, can ban it. At my school they had a hubbub with a bunch of goth kids going ridiculously overboard with black eyeliner, drawing lines down their faces and stuff. They tried to tell them to stop, and the little goths stood up to them, news cameras came, etc. Disruptive. They had to stop wearing the black eyeliner.
It's sad but let's face it, kids don't have hardly any of their constitutional rights guaranteed. If your job can tell you what you can and can't wear, why can't the school?
I do have to say that the tiny nose stud is benign, and that the school is making it look more like religious discrimination than anything. Piercings were okay at my school, but the goths couldn't draw on their emo tears. Honestly, though, in this day and age, a burqa would probably be one of the most disrupting pieces of attire in a lot of schools, unfortunately.
Quote:
The court's 7 to 2 decision held that the First Amendment applied to public schools, and that administrators would have to demonstrate constitutionally valid reasons for any specific regulation of speech in the classroom. The court observed, "It can hardly be argued that either students or teachers shed their constitutional rights to freedom of speech or expression at the schoolhouse gate." [1] Justice Abe Fortas wrote the majority opinion, holding that the speech regulation at issue in Tinker was "based upon an urgent wish to avoid the controversy which might result from the expression, even by the silent symbol of armbands, of opposition to this Nation's part in the conflagration in Vietnam." The Court held that in order for school officials to justify censoring speech, they "must be able to show that [their] action was caused by something more than a mere desire to avoid the discomfort and unpleasantness that always accompany an unpopular viewpoint," allowing schools to forbid conduct that would "materially and substantially interfere with the requirements of appropriate discipline in the operation of the school."[2] The Court found that the actions of the Tinkers in wearing armbands did not cause disruption and held that their activity represented constitutionally protected symbolic speech.
This is what the schools use to stand on these days. Trust me, my school pulled that **** all the time. The court wanted a fair ruling, but they set a precedent saying that schools can decide if the student's "expression" is "disruptive", and if so, can ban it. At my school they had a hubbub with a bunch of goth kids going ridiculously overboard with black eyeliner, drawing lines down their faces and stuff. They tried to tell them to stop, and the little goths stood up to them, news cameras came, etc. Disruptive. They had to stop wearing the black eyeliner.
It's sad but let's face it, kids don't have hardly any of their constitutional rights guaranteed. If your job can tell you what you can and can't wear, why can't the school?
I do have to say that the tiny nose stud is benign, and that the school is making it look more like religious discrimination than anything. Piercings were okay at my school, but the goths couldn't draw on their emo tears. Honestly, though, in this day and age, a burqa would probably be one of the most disrupting pieces of attire in a lot of schools, unfortunately.
I'm kind of torn on this one, which surprises me. I'm all about freedom of religion, but I do see merit to school uniform policies. I also understand that if you make exceptions that allow certain students to not wear the uniforms, it's a bit unfair to the rest.
Frankly, I wish my school forced us to wear uniforms. I suspect there would have been less bullying & clique-forming based on clothing and appearance. It also neatly sidesteps those occasional issues of students wearing offensive clothing (or peculiar situations like this). Plus, it'd be one less decision I had to make every day.
I know if flies in the face of civil liberties, but kids are stupid. They require more guidelines.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 11:31am by Eske
Frankly, I wish my school forced us to wear uniforms. I suspect there would have been less bullying & clique-forming based on clothing and appearance. It also neatly sidesteps those occasional issues of students wearing offensive clothing (or peculiar situations like this). Plus, it'd be one less decision I had to make every day.
I know if flies in the face of civil liberties, but kids are stupid. They require more guidelines.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 11:31am by Eske
I went to a fine arts high school, and our dress code was super lax.
- No torn jeans.
- No candy colored hair besides red. (I.e. no pink or green.)
- No drag except for performances. (Yes, they had to specify this...)
- No skirts or shorts above the knees, except for performances or in dance class.
- No flip flops. No pointe shoes or ballet slippers allowed outside of dance class.
- Shirts required (except for performances)
- No large or hoop piercings in science labs or during art or dance classes. (The reasoning behind that was that if a long dangly earring got stuck on lab equipment or around the kiln, you could get serious burns.) Studs were okay, including nose rings and belly button rings. Additionally, hair must be tied back.
- No spaghetti straps. Tank tops had to have straps wider than one inch.
- No profanity on T-shirts. No beer or drug advertisements.
- No pajamas except for performances or on Pajama Day.
That was about it. Completely reasonable. Things that were banned at other schools, such as chains on jeans, were fine at our school.
- No torn jeans.
- No candy colored hair besides red. (I.e. no pink or green.)
- No drag except for performances. (Yes, they had to specify this...)
- No skirts or shorts above the knees, except for performances or in dance class.
- No flip flops. No pointe shoes or ballet slippers allowed outside of dance class.
- Shirts required (except for performances)
- No large or hoop piercings in science labs or during art or dance classes. (The reasoning behind that was that if a long dangly earring got stuck on lab equipment or around the kiln, you could get serious burns.) Studs were okay, including nose rings and belly button rings. Additionally, hair must be tied back.
- No spaghetti straps. Tank tops had to have straps wider than one inch.
- No profanity on T-shirts. No beer or drug advertisements.
- No pajamas except for performances or on Pajama Day.
That was about it. Completely reasonable. Things that were banned at other schools, such as chains on jeans, were fine at our school.
The issue itself might have some discussion, but since one is not required to wear a nose piercing in the religion, I don't think telling her to remove it crossed the line and infringes unlawfully on her rights.
I could barely tell that she had a nose ring; I was expecting a large gauge monstrosity through the septum.
While it may sound petty that she would argue religious persecution for something like a nose ring, I can't say I blame her. It's certainly no more petty than a school going out of it's way to ban piercings in the first place.
I probably would have done the same thing. I have never understood why schools, especially public schools, have any right to tell a student what he or she can and can't do with his or her body. I don't want facial piercings, and I don't want blue hair, but, if I did, a public school should have no say in it. I can understand a company having issues with employees for this, but a school? Not so much. I'd claim to share her religion, and fight pettiness with even greater pettiness.
Kudos to her.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 2:51pm by RizzoRazzle
I probably would have done the same thing. I have never understood why schools, especially public schools, have any right to tell a student what he or she can and can't do with his or her body. I don't want facial piercings, and I don't want blue hair, but, if I did, a public school should have no say in it. I can understand a company having issues with employees for this, but a school? Not so much. I'd claim to share her religion, and fight pettiness with even greater pettiness.
Kudos to her.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 2:51pm by RizzoRazzle
RizzoRazzle wrote:
It's certainly no more petty than a school going out of it's way to ban piercings in the first place.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
I don't think you'll be able to sell me on that with just a personal anecdote, though. It also seems like an example of the "If there are less laws, then less laws will be broken, therefore we should have less laws." kind of thinking to me, though admittedly I could be getting a false read.
My girlfriend went to catholic school, and I've heard some of her stories about how the girls would roll the tops of their skirts up to get them a little shorter, and things like that to subvert the rules. They'd get in trouble for that stuff pretty often. Doesn't sound like much of a big deal to me though, and I wonder if those kinds of issues might still be preferable to the kinds that I mentioned before.
That being said, I don't have an issue with a school going either way on dress codes. A lax dress code suited me just fine when I went to school, too. I really do see merits to both sides.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 3:20pm by Eske
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
I don't think you'll be able to sell me on that with just a personal anecdote, though. It also seems like an example of the "If there are less laws, then less laws will be broken, therefore we should have less laws." kind of thinking to me, though admittedly I could be getting a false read.
My girlfriend went to catholic school, and I've heard some of her stories about how the girls would roll the tops of their skirts up to get them a little shorter. They'd get in trouble for that pretty often. Doesn't sound like much of a big deal to me though, and I wonder if those kinds of issues might still be preferable to the kinds that I mentioned before.
That being said, I don't have an issue with a school going either way on dress codes. I do see merits to both sides, though.
My best friend went to Catholic high school, and let me tell you, the stories of the issues there had nothing to do with the dress code. But they were pretty freaking awesome (and disturbing) stories nonetheless.
I think repression from the establishment might have something to do with it, but dress code is a symptom, not necessarily the problem. I have no idea why every story I've heard of Catholic schools is crazy, but it's never really varied.
Quote:
It's certainly no more petty than a school going out of it's way to ban piercings in the first place.
Really? isn't a school's job to help prepare out children for success in life afterward?
Really? isn't a school's job to help prepare out children for success in life afterward?
Certainly, and I think most children know that they will be hard pressed to be successful if their appearance is unprofessional. However, high school is when children get to be young adults without the full range of responsibilities adults have. Let 'em live a little while they have the chance, I say. They'll have plenty of time to dye their hair back to a natural color and buy make up for their tattoos and take out their nose rings afterward.
I simply don't feel that it's the school administration's place to tell minors who are not their children what they can and cannot pierce. It's not always simply a matter of looking professional, either. The high school I went to wouldn't even allow students to wear clear spacers to make the piercings unnoticeable during class, but still prevent them from closing up. It was an obvious control issue. Had my high school allowed spacers, I might agree with you.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 3:26pm by RizzoRazzle
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
Right, there's rising house prices, too.
Kavekk the Ludicrous wrote:
Right, there's rising house prices, too.
Donate. One day it could be your family.
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo
LockeColeMA wrote:
Eske, Star Breaker wrote:
Professor shintasama wrote:
Quote:
I do see merit to school uniform policies
I don't think you'll be able to sell me on that with just a personal anecdote, though. It also seems like an example of the "If there are less laws, then less laws will be broken, therefore we should have less laws." kind of thinking to me, though admittedly I could be getting a false read.
My girlfriend went to catholic school, and I've heard some of her stories about how the girls would roll the tops of their skirts up to get them a little shorter. They'd get in trouble for that pretty often. Doesn't sound like much of a big deal to me though, and I wonder if those kinds of issues might still be preferable to the kinds that I mentioned before.
That being said, I don't have an issue with a school going either way on dress codes. I do see merits to both sides, though.
My best friend went to Catholic high school, and let me tell you, the stories of the issues there had nothing to do with the dress code. But they were pretty freaking awesome (and disturbing) stories nonetheless.
I think repression from the establishment might have something to do with it, but dress code is a symptom, not necessarily the problem. I have no idea why every story I've heard of Catholic schools is crazy, but it's never really varied.
I mean yeah, I've heard my share too. But personally, the public high school that I attended had a ton of seriously out-of-control behavior as well. I wonder if maybe the stricter set of rules at a catholic/private school just make the offenses more noteworthy because they're caught and punished more often, or perhaps because of the ironic factor.
Quote:
Had my high school allowed spacers, I might agree with you.
Yeah that does seem silly. At that point I think that the administration is sort of over-stepping their bounds, because it also affects how the students are able to dress when they're not in school - Can't have piercings in school, and can't have them out of school, either.
Edited, Sep 17th 2010 3:32pm by Eske
When I was in school, you could wear a do-rag on your head, but not in your pocket. Your beeper couldn't be visible. That was pretty much the extent of the dress code. My first day as a freshman, when we had our pictures taken, I wore a t-shirt emblazoned with a very urban Bugs Bunny smoking a bong and exhaling smoke graffiti.
I grew up to be awesome.
I grew up to be awesome.
#26REDACTED,
Posted: Sep 17 2010 at 1:54 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) The only dress code I remember was the bra policy. I remember when I was a freshman in high school back in 90 girls would wear clear white shirts and no bra's. Then the teachers would send them to the office where I'm sure they received their spanking.
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