Forum Settings
       
« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Reply To Thread

Delaware politicsFollow

#1 Sep 14 2010 at 2:09 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
12,049 posts
As some of you folks with too much time on your hands may know, I graduated from the University of Delaware. While I'm in Florida now, I still have a lot of friends up at my alma mater, and a number of them have been following the politics recently and keeping me up to date. And what's coming together now is a fun meeting of Tea Party versus centrist Republican vs Democrat.

In 2008, Joe Biden handily defeated Christine O'Donnell for the senate seat. No big surprise; it was something like... 65 to 35% or some huge swing. Then Biden became the vice president, and his seat was given to Ted Kaufman until the special election, held this November. Kaufman stated he would not run; a lot of people thought Joe Biden's son Beau would run, but he declined, leading the Democrats to select Chris Coons without opposition in their primary. Ugly, ugly man, but pretty solid Democrat. Believes in cap & trade, pro-choice, Obama's healthcare reform, etc. Not bad in the polls, but not a sure fire winner... against one of the candidates.

The two contenders for the Republican nomination are Mike Castle, a very long-running State Representative now gunning for the Senate, and Christine O'Donnell, Tea Party and Palin-backed hard-right winger. Originally Castle had a HUGE lead over O'Donnell in polls, but recently the gap has become neck-and-neck. Why is this important?

Because if O'Donnell wins, right now all signs point to Coons winning overall. But Castle is viewed favorably by both sides, and has a slight advantage over Coons in the most recent polls. He is as close to a centrist as possible these days: he voted against the stimulus and healthcare based on how much debt they would add, but he is pro-choice and for energy reform, including cap & trade.

O'Donnell is a long-time conservative activist, and has not won an elected office before. She has had a lot of trouble with personal finances, which has given her some street cred with people going through similar situations in a tough economy. While she supports the fiscally conservative policies of the Tea Party, she is also a staunch social conservative; pro-life, anti-pornography and extramarital sex, and with a history of working with groups to promote Christian teachings and lifestyles. She also, among other things, amassed thousands of dollars in campaign debt, was confronted by the IRS about unpaid income taxes and sold her Wilmington home to a campaign staffer to avoid a sheriff’s sale ordered to settle mortgage claims, a News Journal investigation shows. Oh, and a recent campaign spokesperson fabricated a rumor of Mike Castle having a gay affair as another bit of mud to toss at him, besides the perennial call of "RINO!"

Personally, I'd be fine with seeing Castle win, because he's a fiscal conservative but has some socially liberal policies. But on the other hand, if he loses the Democrats will win - still get the social liberal there too. But it's amazing that the Tea Party could end up getting a MORE liberal candidate elected.

I'm interested in seeing how it all plays out.
#2 Sep 14 2010 at 2:17 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
I don't know much more about O'Donnell than a pretty shallow Tea Party/Palin endorsed overview but between Delaware and Nevada, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. DE & NV should have been two easy pick-ups for the GOP and Reid is suddenly competitive and **** may be after tonight. If the GOP misses a Senate majority by two, these will be the races to facepalm about.
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#3 Sep 14 2010 at 3:04 PM Rating: Good
At least it's not Basil.
#4 Sep 14 2010 at 3:06 PM Rating: Decent
Prodigal Son
******
20,643 posts
Who gives a fuck about Delaware?
____________________________
publiusvarus wrote:
we all know liberals are well adjusted american citizens who only want what's best for society. While conservatives are evil money grubbing scum who only want to sh*t on the little man and rob the world of its resources.
#5 Sep 14 2010 at 3:12 PM Rating: Default
Encyclopedia
******
35,568 posts
Jophiel wrote:
I don't know much more about O'Donnell than a pretty shallow Tea Party/Palin endorsed overview but between Delaware and Nevada, they seem to be shooting themselves in the foot. DE & NV should have been two easy pick-ups for the GOP and Reid is suddenly competitive and **** may be after tonight. If the GOP misses a Senate majority by two, these will be the races to facepalm about.


The flip side is that without Tea Party involvement, the Dems would almost certainly hold onto a lot more seats. The net effect if you are a conservative is positive. That we might fail to take seats in states where positions like "For cap and trade and Obamacare" earn you a vote advantage, is more than made up for in states where the people oppose those things overwhelmingly, but haven't had a candidate from either party in decades who represents their views.

Of course, the whole "the tea party is hurting Republicans" is the current story of the day coming from the left. I'm pretty sure I heard the exact same thing from at least 5 different mouths on the Sunday shows last weekend. Repetition does not make something true.
____________________________
King Nobby wrote:
More words please
#6 Sep 14 2010 at 3:19 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
gbaji wrote:
The flip side is that without Tea Party involvement, the Dems would almost certainly hold onto a lot more seats.

And with Tea Party involvement that stopped short of fighting to nominate chuckleheads who'll lose what should have been easy GOP victories, they'd win even more seats. No reason to exclude the middle, eh?
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#7 Sep 14 2010 at 4:00 PM Rating: Decent
Quote:
Believes in cap & trade


Ugh.
#8REDACTED, Posted: Sep 14 2010 at 4:07 PM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) Jophed,
#9 Sep 14 2010 at 4:11 PM Rating: Decent
varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Yes we get it you, and every other liberal, hate the tea party.



Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:07pm by varusword75


Yep.
#10 Sep 14 2010 at 4:13 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
12,049 posts
varusword75 wrote:
Jophed,

Yes we get it you, and every other liberal, hate the tea party.


As a liberal, I don't think Joph speaks for me.

Granted, I agree with the majority of what he says...

I don't hate the Tea Party as a concept. Just like I don't hate Communism as a concept. But both groups are stunningly similar in their real-life execution, even if the exact opposite on paper. Unrealistic ideals taken by fringe members of society that, if ever given much power, would ruin the country by warping the very things they try to stand for.
#11 Sep 14 2010 at 4:23 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
Tea Party ideology aside, I'm more interested in it from the political calculus angle. I'm obviously liberal and abashedly a Democrat but I enjoy politics from an academic point of view as well. If your goal is to gain control of a chamber of Congress then you're better off running an electable candidate who you agree with 75% than an unelectable candidate who you agree with 99% (but who'll lose to a guy you agree with 30%). Sacrificing some ideology to gain control of chamber is always going to be worth it because no single seat is worth more than controlling the committees, voting schedule, etc.

In this case, you have the Tea Party & Palin practically sabotaging a very likely GOP takeover in Delaware to run up a candidate who is very probably unelectable even in the current climate. That's just stupid and while I suppose the rank & file are doing so out of some starry-eyed notion, I'd guess that Palin is just more interested in promoting her brand than in seeing the GOP succeed.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 5:26pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#12 Sep 14 2010 at 4:41 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
I'm not sure how one can see a 2 split of their side's votes as a good thing. My Conservatives are in power in Canada because the left vote got split between 2 parties(Lib and NDP). I can't see how giving the right 2 parties to chose from helps the Republicans.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#13 Sep 14 2010 at 5:02 PM Rating: Good
Repressed Memories
******
21,027 posts
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
I can't see how giving the right 2 parties to chose from helps the Republicans.

It's not a split. The "party" in Tea Party is accidentally deceptive. The Tea Party isn't a separate political party; they have no candidates. They are a group of people who share a similar political ideology. They vote for people who espouse or who they believe adhere to tea party principals. What often occurs is that one or more of the Republican candidates is a Tea Party Republican or one who best represents their ideology while the rest might be moderate or miscellaneous Republicans.

To put it more simply. Tea Partiers are Republicans; they are Republicans who don't like to call themselves Republicans. They overwhelmingly voted Republican before the movement, and they overwhelmingly vote Republican now.

From a marketing standpoint it's a rebranding campaign. Tea Partiers still stand for the same values Republicans do--it's the same product--but they renamed themselves to distance themselves from the image of Republicans.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:13pm by Allegory
#14 Sep 14 2010 at 5:14 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
Allegory wrote:
From a marketing standpoint it's a rebranding campaign.
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#15 Sep 14 2010 at 5:27 PM Rating: Decent
Repressed Memories
******
21,027 posts
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.

It's not a split though. Tea Partiers are Republicans. All that's happened is that the most conservative element of the Republican party invented a separate name for itself. They still vote the same as before. Aside from increasing conservative enthusiasm, the Tea Party has had zero effect on elections. They don't split, shift, gain, or lose votes in any way. Everyone still votes for exactly the same person and ideology they voted for before the movement.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:29pm by Allegory
#16 Sep 14 2010 at 5:33 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
Allegory wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.

It's not a split though. Tea Partiers are Republicans. All that's happened is that the most conservative element of the Republican party invented a separate name for itself. They still vote the same as before. Aside from increasing conservative enthusiasm, the Tea Party has had zero effect on elections. They don't split, shift, gain, or lose votes in any way. Everyone still votes for exactly the same person and ideology they voted for before the movement.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:29pm by Allegory
Smiley: oyvey Are you trying to be obtuse?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#17 Sep 14 2010 at 5:37 PM Rating: Decent
Repressed Memories
******
21,027 posts
I must be, because it seemed to me as if you thought that the Tea Party was in some way hurting Republicans, when they aren't. My second guess was that you were going for a joke, but I couldn't find it.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:38pm by Allegory
#18 Sep 14 2010 at 5:44 PM Rating: Good
Official Shrubbery Waterer
*****
14,659 posts
Allegory wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.

It's not a split though. Tea Partiers are Republicans. All that's happened is that the most conservative element of the Republican party invented a separate name for itself. They still vote the same as before. Aside from increasing conservative enthusiasm, the Tea Party has had zero effect on elections. They don't split, shift, gain, or lose votes in any way. Everyone still votes for exactly the same person and ideology they voted for before the movement.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:29pm by Allegory

Clearly you didn't read any of the posts above yours, as they describe a situation in which the Tea Party *is* having an effect on elections, and in which members *are* voting for people they otherwise wouldn't have voted for prior to the "movement" (harder-right conservatives). It's just happening in the primaries.

Case in point, there is no way that Marco Rubio would have won the GOP nomination without the enthusiastic support generated by the Tea Party. GOP primaries in some red states are spitting out candidates much farther to the right than they would have otherwise.
____________________________
Jophiel wrote:
I managed to be both retarded and entertaining.

#19 Sep 14 2010 at 5:47 PM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
Demea wrote:
[quote=Allegory]Case in point, there is no way that Marco Rubio would have won the GOP nomination without the enthusiastic support generated by the Tea Party. GOP primaries in some red states are spitting out candidates much farther to the right than they would have otherwise.
Which loses the moderate Republicans.
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#20 Sep 14 2010 at 5:49 PM Rating: Good
Demea wrote:
Allegory wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.

It's not a split though. Tea Partiers are Republicans. All that's happened is that the most conservative element of the Republican party invented a separate name for itself. They still vote the same as before. Aside from increasing conservative enthusiasm, the Tea Party has had zero effect on elections. They don't split, shift, gain, or lose votes in any way. Everyone still votes for exactly the same person and ideology they voted for before the movement.

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 6:29pm by Allegory

Clearly you didn't read any of the posts above yours, as they describe a situation in which the Tea Party *is* having an effect on elections, and in which members *are* voting for people they otherwise wouldn't have voted for prior to the "movement" (harder-right conservatives). It's just happening in the primaries.

Case in point, there is no way that Marco Rubio would have won the GOP nomination without the enthusiastic support generated by the Tea Party. GOP primaries in some red states are spitting out candidates much farther to the right than they would have otherwise.
Also as a side effect, people without a party affiliation - who, presumably, tend to land more towards the center of things and are more likely to vote for the candidate who they feel is closest to the center - are more likely to vote Democratic because the Republicans continue moving further to the right.

Spoilered for unnecessary snark: So in 2016, are the Republicans going to try and field Mussolini as a candidate?
#21 Sep 14 2010 at 7:04 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
With 47% of precincts reporting, O'Donnell is up by 10% over Castle.

Edit: 77% reporting and O'Donnell is up by 7%

Edited, Sep 14th 2010 8:07pm by Jophiel
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#22 Sep 14 2010 at 7:13 PM Rating: Excellent
Liberal Conspiracy
*******
TILT
86% reporting and O'Donnell at 54% of the vote.

Democrats keep the Senate this cycle. Thanks, Palin!
____________________________
Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#23 Sep 14 2010 at 10:00 PM Rating: Excellent
Code Monkey
Avatar
****
7,476 posts
Jophiel wrote:
you're better off running an electable candidate who you agree with 75% than an unelectable candidate who you agree with 99% (but who'll lose to a guy you agree with 30%).


Kucinich for President!
____________________________
Do what now?
#24 Sep 14 2010 at 10:43 PM Rating: Excellent
*****
10,601 posts
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Allegory wrote:
From a marketing standpoint it's a rebranding campaign.
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.
reminds me of the conservative and refoooooorm party
____________________________
01001001 00100000 01001100 01001001 01001011 01000101 00100000 01000011 01000001 01001011 01000101
You'll always be stupid, you'll just be stupid with more information in your brain
Forum FAQ
#25 Sep 15 2010 at 1:37 AM Rating: Good
Citizen's Arrest!
******
29,527 posts
Jophiel wrote:
Thanks, Palin!
That woman needs to go hunting with **** Cheney. Smiley: glare
#26 Sep 15 2010 at 4:42 AM Rating: Good
Soulless Internet Tiger
******
35,474 posts
Sir Xsarus wrote:
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
Allegory wrote:
From a marketing standpoint it's a rebranding campaign.
Even better, splitting their own party in two. That's a guaranteed failure for this election.
reminds me of the conservative and refoooooorm party
Exactly the situation i was thinking off. Split in 2 and neither was a force the entire time. Even after they reformed as 1 they were still a non-factor, for what, 2 elections?
____________________________
Donate. One day it could be your family.


An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

« Previous 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9
Reply To Thread

Colors Smileys Quote OriginalQuote Checked Help

 

Recent Visitors: 367 All times are in CST
Anonymous Guests (367)