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#152 Sep 03 2010 at 8:14 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Last Post on the Subject of Race:

I leave you with the following thoughts regarding Obama's election:

Is it not true that if a white person said or thought that "race mattered" during the last elevtion & voted for McCain, that they were racist? Sure, other factors may have played a part, but if "race mattered" to a white person & they voted for McCain one can easily make the conclusion that said person was, in fact, racist.

On the flip side, if an African American said race mattered & voted for Obama (9 out of 10 did btw), using the textbook definition then that black person too would be considered a racist.

But they aren't. As African Americans, their subordination has continued to be institutionalized, so voting for Obama because of his race makes sense. It's a reaction TO institutionalized racism, not racism itself.

Even if an African American voted for Obama for no other reason than they hated white people (so voted against McCain), that's still a reaction TO the institutionalized racism said African American (and their ancestors) have been subjugated to over generations. If that institutionalized racism was never there, that African American wouldn't have the resentment of white people that they had when they went to the voting booth. Yes, that black person is prejudiced and/or a bigoted, but not a racist.

Edited, Sep 3rd 2010 4:31am by Omegavegeta


I was with you until that last paragraph. Such hatred is still racism, no matter what justification you need to use for it. That's exactly what racism means. You let your emotions dictate to you how you think the word should be defined, but they're clouding your judgement.
#153 Sep 03 2010 at 8:15 AM Rating: Excellent
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Omegavegeta wrote:
On the flip side, if an African American said race mattered & voted for Obama (9 out of 10 did btw), using the textbook definition then that black person too would be considered a racist.

But they aren't.

On the flip-flip side, if that guy said "Fuck you Whitey, get your ******-*** out of my restaurant before I beat the shit out of you, you cracker piece of trash", they would.

Funny how that works.



Do black dudes still say ****** and cracker? Everything I know about racism, I learned in 1977.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#154 Sep 03 2010 at 8:21 AM Rating: Excellent
Gurue
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Joph speaks jive.
#155 Sep 03 2010 at 8:33 AM Rating: Excellent
Will swallow your soul
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Sheeeeeiiiiit. Blood don' wan' de he'p, blood don' git de he'p.

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#156 Sep 03 2010 at 8:55 AM Rating: Excellent
Omegavegeta wrote:
Yes, that black person is prejudiced and/or a bigoted, but not a racist.
No, they would still be a racist, because they're still judging people based on the color of their skin rather than the content of their character.
#157 Sep 04 2010 at 9:46 AM Rating: Decent
Edited by bsphil
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Samira wrote:
Sheeeeeiiiiit. Blood don' wan' de he'p, blood don' git de he'p.
Bix nood.
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His Excellency Aethien wrote:
Almalieque wrote:
If no one debated with me, then I wouldn't post here anymore.
Take the hint guys, please take the hint.
gbaji wrote:
I'm not getting my news from anywhere Joph.
#158 Sep 08 2010 at 7:02 PM Rating: Good
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Barkingturtle wrote:
Sorry you bought into it when whatever professor you had a crush on started evangelizing. He must have had a huge **** and muddy complexion, I reckon.
Yes, I believe Anna did.
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#159 Sep 08 2010 at 8:19 PM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Even if an African American voted for Obama for no other reason than they hated white people (so voted against McCain), that's still a reaction TO the institutionalized racism said African American (and their ancestors) have been subjugated to over generations.


That's a false assumption though. It only works if we assume that hatred of another race can *only* occur as a result of and reaction to institutionalized racism. If that is true, then white people can't hate black people, so one has to wonder why we invented a term like "racism" in the first place.

Clearly, you can hate someone of a different skin color for reasons other than a reaction to institutionalized racism by that other racial group against your own. Thus, black people can be racist, just like anyone else.

Quote:
If that institutionalized racism was never there, that African American wouldn't have the resentment of white people that they had when they went to the voting booth.


You can't possibly believe this. Why do you believe that white racism exists then? They shouldn't have resentment of black people, right? So why enslave them? Why deny them voting rights? Why force them to have less equal public facilities? Clearly racism has nothing at all to do with who is in power. It has to do with treating people differently based on the color of their skin.

What is dangerous about how you are viewing this is that you can't tell me when/how this assumed "institutionalized racism" is measured, or when we know that it's gone, or it's benefiting someone else. It's one thing to fight *against* things that are racist, even to fight against them in specific cases involving specific races. Where you switch from fighting against racism to becoming a racist is when you start advocating *for* processes and policies which benefit one racial group, while penalizing another. When you stop arguing for equality under the law, and start arguing for specialized treatment of one group over another. Do you honestly think that the groups who receive special treatment will care or notice when the scales have balanced out? Or do you think that, just as white people in the south during the first half of the 20th century thought that it was "normal" for them to receive privilege at the expense of darker skinned people, that those future former minorities wont also feel the same way?

Quote:
Yes, that black person is prejudiced and/or a bigoted, but not a racist.


Except that racism is when you are prejudiced and/or bigoted on the basis of race. Your position is absurd.
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#160 Sep 08 2010 at 8:21 PM Rating: Good
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My bad folks. Should have left this one half way down the page, where it was forgotten.
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An invasion of armies can be resisted, but not an idea whose time has come. Victor Hugo

#161 Sep 08 2010 at 9:00 PM Rating: Decent
Uglysasquatch, Mercenary Major wrote:
My bad folks. Should have left this one half way down the page, where it was forgotten.
I'm still waiting for a "good point" Glenn Beck has made, you got my hopes up for nothing Smiley: glare
#162 Sep 09 2010 at 7:17 AM Rating: Excellent
I just skimmed this thread and have only this to say. The notion that discrimination based on skin color can only be considered racism if the discriminating race holds the power of majority or special privilege over the one being discriminated against is ludicrous at best.

#163 Sep 09 2010 at 7:40 AM Rating: Good
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Okay, what about this: If someone made the argument that "I didn't vote for Obama the black man because there is good evidence that a black person will be less effective in the position.

Is this racism or enabling racism?
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#164 Sep 09 2010 at 9:25 AM Rating: Good
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Elinda wrote:
Okay, what about this: If someone made the argument that "I didn't vote for Obama the black man because there is good evidence that a black person will be less effective in the position.

Is this racism or enabling racism?


My first question would be "What is this 'good' evidence?"






Then I'd probably call you a racist.
#165 Sep 09 2010 at 9:27 AM Rating: Excellent
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I think I'd respond the same way as if you'd said a woman wouldn't be an effective President: if that's true, then it's a systemic problem, and the sooner we diagnose that and get to work fixing it, the better off we'll be in the long run.

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#166 Sep 09 2010 at 9:43 AM Rating: Good
I think I'd respond with a vacant stare.
#167 Sep 09 2010 at 9:55 AM Rating: Excellent
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Kavekk the Pest wrote:
I think I'd respond with a vacant stare.


Is this because you're still being religious?

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In a time of universal deceit, telling the truth is a revolutionary act.

#168 Sep 09 2010 at 10:00 AM Rating: Good
Samira wrote:
Kavekk the Pest wrote:
I think I'd respond with a vacant stare.


Is this because you're still being religious?


Praise the Lord!
#169 Sep 09 2010 at 12:15 PM Rating: Decent
As I said before, I'm done talking about race. I understand that my views on it aren't conventional and I won't persuade you. I'm cool with that.

But on topic, (RE: Glenn Beck), if The Restoring Truthiness Rally happens I'm totally going.

No one trolls the **** out of conservatives quite like Colbert.
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