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#52 Aug 30 2010 at 9:11 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
Did CBS hire their company to do estimates of those rallies using the same techniques?

Well, did they? Go find out the information and come back.
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That's kinda my side point, btw.

Lame leading questions can take the place of intelligent points? I suppose but I don't think you're fooling anyone.
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No, I didn't.

Yes, you did. Again, you're not fooling anyone.
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And? Doesn't that mean that Obama is a liar as well?

lolwut? Was Obama talking about how many people showed up to... anything?
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Belkira wrote:
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#53 Aug 30 2010 at 9:20 PM Rating: Excellent
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Debalic wrote:
Fuck the numbers. The staggering thing about this rally was that he claimed it "had nothing to do with politics".


That reminds me of my favorite Glen Beck quote:

Glen Beck in a Forbes interview wrote:
I could give a flying crap about the political process. We're an entertainment company
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#54 Aug 30 2010 at 9:54 PM Rating: Default
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Jophiel wrote:
gbaji wrote:
Did CBS hire their company to do estimates of those rallies using the same techniques?

Well, did they? Go find out the information and come back.


You didn't bother to check, did you? But you did in the cases involving Tea Party events. That would be strange, except that the reason is that you didn't check in either case. Someone else checked, and then made sure that you learned about it by writing news stories about it in one set of cases, but not in the other.

That's the bias. You guys just repeat it. Sometimes because you're not aware that if someone doesn't write you a news story about something doesn't mean that it didn't happen, and sometimes because you just don't want to examine the issue fairly. You look the other way when you see media bias because it's biased in your direction. Which makes you guilty of the bias as well IMO.

Edited, Aug 30th 2010 8:55pm by gbaji
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#55 Aug 30 2010 at 10:07 PM Rating: Decent
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gbaji wrote:
You didn't bother to check, did you?

I'm asking you. Did they? You just brought it up so I'm sure you looked into it first. Tell me exactly what happened.

Oh! I'm sorry! I was supposed to fall for your stupid little attempt. Gee, so sad...
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#56 Aug 31 2010 at 12:23 AM Rating: Excellent
Linky

Tim Wise wrote:
To be angry with Glenn Beck would be easy. So too, to conjure an ungenerous spirit of contempt for his acolytes who came from around the country to attend Beck's "Restoring Honor" rally this Saturday, would hardly take Herculean effort. His demented narcissism and their cult-like devotion to the man who once said he was just "a rodeo clown," to whom one should hardly pay attention - but who now suggests he is on a mission from God to save America - are both worthy of the highest derision.

Yet, rather than anger or contempt - however deserved - it is sadness that animates my thoughts today. Sadness that so many would feel the country so besmirched by the first 19 months of the Obama Administration that they would take it upon themselves to march on Washington. Not for jobs or peace. But to restore some vaguely defined sense of national integrity, and, to hear Beck tell it, to "reclaim the civil rights movement." As unsightly as it can be to witness any man's ego explode with self-absorbed mendacity all over the pages of history - as we observed this weekend, what with the rally coinciding with the anniversary of Martin Luther King Jr.'s "I Have a Dream Speech" - it is especially so when that ego belongs to one as craven as Beck. That Beck thinks the civil rights movement needs "reclaiming," and that so many others apparently agree, speaks to the miseducation of the American people (especially large numbers of white Americans), and it is this, which saddens.

For how could anyone take seriously the connection between Beck's rally and the 1963 March on Washington for Jobs and Freedom? The latter was a direct challenge to the economic injustice of racism, and to a nation that had "bounced a check" to its black citizens. The former was led by a man who decries all talk of social justice, and having never apparently read a single word of Dr. King's writings, suggests that the left has hijacked the movement's legacy by speaking of such matters as were, in fact, central to its mission.

For Beck to insist, as he has, that the movement must be reclaimed, and that it is the job of conservatives to do it, because they "were the ones who did it in the first place," is a historical perversion of such galaxial proportions as to call into question his very sanity. In truth, it is unlikely that any of the almost all-white throng gathered in Washington this weekend played any part in the civil rights struggle. Those at Beck's event were people whose ideological forbears include the editors at the nation's leading conservative magazine, The National Review, who supported segregation and excoriated King, or worse, the zombified denizens of the John Birch Society, and those like Beck's personal hero, W. Cleon Skousen, who viewed the civil rights movement as a communist conspiracy to control the world.

Were King alive today, Glenn Beck would surely have found a prominent place for him on his chalkboard of demonic progressivism, what with King's commitment to economic equality, and condemnation of the United States government as the "greatest purveyor of violence in the world today." And whereas King demanded a guaranteed minimum income for all as a hedge against poverty - and insisted that to ignore the needs of the poor was to invite "spiritual death" - Beck counsels us to worry not about the poverty of millions. After all, as he explained: "The poorest among us are still some of the richest in the world...The poorest among us have blessings beyond the wildest imagination of anyone that Mother Theresa visited." So because there are others in the world with less than you, you who suffer here should stop complaining, speaketh the Good Reverend Beck. By which logic one could also have said - and many racists in those days did - that blacks in apartheid America should have stopped complaining and thanked their lucky stars they weren't in the Belgian Congo under Leopold.

No Mr. Beck. You and yours have reclaimed nothing, for there was nothing awaiting your messianic rescue. Those who did the work of obtaining even the partially decent society in which we live today, did so with no help from those like the people who hung on your every word this weekend. And those of us who know the truth of the movement and this nation's history - and of the descent into madness upon which some of our fellow citizens have lately embarked at your behest - will continue, as we long have, to struggle against the forces of reaction so well-represented and led by the likes of you. For your part, you will continue to race bait and to push buttons of white resentment, what with your claims that the president is only pushing health care reform as a way to obtain reparations for blacks at the expense of whites, and that his first name - or at least his insistence on using it, as opposed to some more "American-sounding" alternative - proves his lack of devotion to the country.

But it is you who lacks commitment to the valuable part of the national ideal. It is you whose slavish devotion to nostalgia - to the "good old days" of so-called "innocence," long since lost - betrays your contempt for both history and millions of your co-countrymen and women. They remember how those good old days were days of terror and hellish oppression for the black and brown, of unchecked male domination of women, of the closet enforced on LGBT folks, of Christian hegemony at the expense of pluralism. Even today those structural injustices remain too strong, but in the days you revere and remember so fondly, they were not only present but were accepted as the very model of virtue. That is the tradition in whose shadow you stand. That is your dream, Mr. Beck: a nightmare for all who fail to live up to your white, middle class, straight and Christian ideal of what a "real American" looks like.

But we have other dreams to dream. Other dragons to slay than those at which you tilt: first and foremost, the historical amnesia you would today elevate to the level of a national sacrament. For while you were right to note that black folks don't "own" Martin Luther King - actually no one owns anyone anymore, no thanks to the conservatives of the 19th century of course - make no mistake, it was the civil rights movement that produced him, the left that fought beside him, and it is we who will continue his work, work in which you have never played, and will never play, any part whatsoever.


And, as one of our countries preeminent authors on race, he's got a nice little article entitle Black powers Gonna' Get You Sucka: Right-Wing Paranoia and the Rhetoric of Modern Racism where he pretty much disproves, with you know ACTUAL FACTS and citations, pretty much every point the right has on any sort of "reverse racism" & that Obama is racist.

Tim Wise wrote:
While on the face of it, these kinds of right-wing inanities may seem so absurd as to hardly merit being taken seriously, it's important to step back and think about the internal logic of even the most outlandish claims. I mean, no one can honestly believe that health care reform is reparations. After all, what the hell kind of reparations is it where you have to get sick first in order to get paid? That's not a good hustle. And no one can really believe that some white kid got beat up on a bus because it's "Obama's America," as if the President had sent a text message to those black guys saying: HEY, YNOT BEAT SUM CRAKA *** 4 ME, U DIG?

But the intellectual strength of the claims is not the issue. It doesn't matter. From a political perspective, even the most insane-sounding claim about Obama's supposed hatred for white people makes sense. It's a perfect way to prime white racial fears and anxieties, to say, in effect, they're coming for your money white folks, and then your children. In a nation where the population will be half people of color within 25-30 years, and where the popular culture is now thoroughly multicultural (and thus many of the icons don't look the way they used to), and where the President doesn't fit a lot of people's conception of what such a person is supposed to look like, and where the economy is in the toilet for millions, playing upon white anxiety is the perfect recipe for political mobilization.

They've said very clearly that they want their country back. And if we who oppose the right don't challenge these folks for the racists they are, or continue to shy away from making race an issue (as if it weren't already), they just might get it.
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#57 Aug 31 2010 at 12:33 AM Rating: Good
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Omegavegeta wrote:
Something of substance.


Thanks.

+1 for that 8)
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#58 Aug 31 2010 at 1:19 AM Rating: Good
And here's a video from the march where we can laugh, together, at the ignorant.
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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#59REDACTED, Posted: Aug 31 2010 at 1:24 AM, Rating: Sub-Default, (Expand Post) They figured they might as well cover something that was newsworthy? Can't say I really bothered watching CNN so I don't know how much time they spent spewing the same BS we hear from liberals on this forum. Not that it matters, either way you'd have libs foaming at the mouth over someone they vilify yet never have bothered to take the time to listen to before hating.
#60 Aug 31 2010 at 2:31 AM Rating: Decent
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AlexanderrOfAsura wrote:
They figured they might as well cover something that was newsworthy? Can't say I really bothered watching CNN so I don't know how much time they spent spewing the same BS we hear from liberals on this forum. Not that it matters, either way you'd have libs foaming at the mouth over someone they vilify yet never have bothered to take the time to listen to before hating.


Honestly I thought of him as a douchebag the first time I watched him. I got evidence of his bag-o-douche right here.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=CHpe2fapREA

Yep. That is a fine upstanding individual right there.
#61 Aug 31 2010 at 2:50 AM Rating: Good
AlexanderrOfAsura wrote:
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You know what I'm talking about. The better question is why CNN decided to devote so much time to covering the insane egomaniac. Thoughts?


They figured they might as well cover something that was newsworthy? Can't say I really bothered watching CNN so I don't know how much time they spent spewing the same BS we hear from liberals on this forum. Not that it matters, either way you'd have libs foaming at the mouth over someone they vilify yet never have bothered to take the time to listen to before hating.


Quiet, dear, the grown-ups are talking.
#62 Aug 31 2010 at 3:09 AM Rating: Good
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They figured they might as well cover something that was newsworthy? Can't say I really bothered watching CNN so I don't know how much time they spent spewing the same BS we hear from liberals on this forum. Not that it matters, either way you'd have libs foaming at the mouth over someone they vilify yet never have bothered to take the time to listen to before hating.


I've listened to Glenn Beck. Here's a few of the things he's said that makes him a villain, an @#%^, a blasphemer, & an all around douchebag:

"This president I think has exposed himself over and over again as a guy who has a deep-seated hatred for white people or the white culture....I'm not saying he doesn't like white people, I'm saying he has a problem. This guy is, I believe, a racist." –on President Obama, sparking an advertiser exodus from his FOX News show, July 28, 2009 (Source)

"When I see a 9/11 victim family on television, or whatever, I'm just like, 'Oh shut up' I'm so sick of them because they're always complaining." –"The Glenn Beck Program," Sept. 9, 2005 (Source)

"The only [Katrina victims] we're seeing on television are the scumbags." –"The Glenn Beck Program," Sept. 9, 2005 (Source)

"Al Gore's not going to be rounding up Jews and exterminating them. It is the same tactic, however. The goal is different. The goal is globalization...And you must silence all dissenting voices. That's what Hitler did. That's what Al Gore, the U.N., and everybody on the global warming bandwagon [are doing]." –"The Glenn Beck Program," May 1, 2007 (Source)

"So here you have Barack Obama going in and spending the money on embryonic stem cell research. ... Eugenics. In case you don't know what Eugenics led us to: the Final Solution. A master race! A perfect person. ... The stuff that we are facing is absolutely frightening." –"The Glenn Beck Program," March 9, 2009 (Source)

Oh, & to stay on topic, you can also throw in the whole being audacious enough to think he could "take back" the cause of MLK on the anniversary of his most famous speech from the very people MLK was working for & with & give it to the kinds of people who never wanted a civil rights movement to begin with!

Ya, that was incredibly douchey.





Edited, Aug 31st 2010 5:10am by Omegavegeta
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#63 Aug 31 2010 at 3:39 AM Rating: Excellent
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Listening to Sarah Palin invoke the name of Martin Luther King on an Australian news report was a horrible cringe experience.
#64 Aug 31 2010 at 6:05 AM Rating: Decent
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In Soviet Russia, Glenn Beck make liberals foam at mouth!
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#65 Aug 31 2010 at 8:08 AM Rating: Default
What a surprise nearly half a million people march on DC to protest the govn and liberals are doing their best to downplay it's importance.

And yes there were at least half a million; I was one of them. I've been to numerous UT football games (stadium seats 107k), as well as the festivities on the college strip as well as spring break on padre island (remember I was raised there) and this crowd easily matched those numbers.

Beck didn't mention Obama's name once and the main message was about faith and God. Two words that make liberals cringe.


Liberals are terrified of this guy. Anyone who can mobilize that many people is certainly a force to be reckoned with, especially in an election year. And unlike Democrat protests these people weren't paid protestors bused in.

H*ll I hear the huffington post is offering cash rewards for anything that they can use to discredit him.
#66 Aug 31 2010 at 8:12 AM Rating: Excellent
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#67 Aug 31 2010 at 8:24 AM Rating: Decent
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varusword75 wrote:
half a million people

lol
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And yes there were at least half a million; I was one of them.

lol
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
#68 Aug 31 2010 at 8:35 AM Rating: Good
Sweetums wrote:
I liked this infographic and figured it was relevant to the thread


I'm sorry, but Beck getting busted speeding in his delorean with the doors open is kinda awesome.
Varrus wrote:

What a surprise nearly half a million people march on DC to protest the govn and liberals are doing their best to downplay it's importance.

And yes there were at least half a million; I was one of them.


I wouldn't say I'm downplaying it's importance. Having a Klan rally on the anniversary of MLK's dream speech in front of the statue of Lincoln is certainly a historic low for this country.



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"The Rich are there to take all of the money & pay none of the taxes, the middle class is there to do all the work and pay all the taxes, and the poor are there to scare the crap out of the middle class." -George Carlin


#69 Aug 31 2010 at 8:44 AM Rating: Good
varusword75 wrote:
Beck didn't mention Obama's name once and the main message was about faith and God.


That makes sense. It's not like there are other, more appropriate, venues to discuss these kinds of things. Can you think of any place where faith and God are regularly discussed? Say, on a weekly basis? In front of a crowd? Nope? Me neither. Good thing Glenn Beck plugged that particular gap in the theological market. Phew!

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#70 Aug 31 2010 at 8:53 AM Rating: Good
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varusword75 wrote:
And yes there were at least half a million; I was one of them.


Meh, I was there too, and it wasn't 500,000 or even 'nearly' 500,000. Mind you, I was there simply to witness the chaos since I live within walking distance from the Mall.

I'm no statistician nor did I fly over and do head count estimates, but I've lived in DC for over 10 years. I've been on the mall for everything from the 4th and to the Komen Breast Cancer Run, to just being damned happy all the snow is gone. I was there for the past inauguration as well (talk about chaos).

UT holds 102,459, by the way, which includes standing room. You were off by 5k regarding a venue you regularly visit, let alone unfamiliar territory.

This article is kinda hilarious.

Quote:
The U.S. Park Police in the past 14 years has provided crowd estimates only once -- for the inauguration of Barack Obama last year. (National Park Service officials said they wanted to know whether it broke the previous record set by the 1965 swearing-in of Lyndon B. Johnson.) In 1996, Congress forced the Park Police to stop estimating crowd sizes after organizers of the Million Man March threatened to sue the agency for saying that 400,000 people had attended the 1995 event, a far smaller turnout than the organizers' own million-plus claim.
#71 Aug 31 2010 at 8:59 AM Rating: Good
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Since the OP didn't mention attendance at all, you must have read something more than the OP, right? You read some article or editorial or blog that pointed out the discrepancy to you.

What was it? And can't you acknowledge that whatever you read which told you that influenced you? If said source *hadn't* mentioned the discrepancy, would you have known about it? Would you not agree then that you were manipulated by whatever that media source was?


Dang, you're right here. The OP said CNN was devoting space to it, so I went and looked up the front page story at CNN. My goodness, what a jump in logic there. Here is my "source": http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/08/30/glenn.beck.rally.monday/index.html

You're right, I was totally manipulated by a source that included estimates from:
1. AirPhotosLive.com: 78-96k, margin of error of 9k
2. NBC Nightly News: "tens, perhaps hundreds of thousands."
3. Fox News: "CROWD ATTENDING BECK RALLY ESTIMATED AT OVER 500,000."
4. The Washington Post quoting Republican Rep. Michele Bachmann : "We're not going to let anyone get away with saying there were less than a million here today -- because we were witnesses."
5. Beck himself: crowd was between 300,000 and 650,000.

The source mentions 5 different estimates, from 5 different companies or people. I found it interesting that they varied so much.

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You were told though. That's the point. It wasn't your own thought. It was someone else's. You just repeated it.

I was told 5 different estimates and made my own thoughts on the matter? No kidding, that's what I said. You seem to think you know a lot about how I decide things. What an odd duck you are.
#72 Aug 31 2010 at 9:04 AM Rating: Excellent
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varusword75 wrote:
What a surprise nearly half a million people march on DC to protest the govn and liberals are doing their best to downplay it's importance.

And yes there were at least half a million; I was one of them. I've been to numerous UT football games (stadium seats 107k), as well as the festivities on the college strip as well as spring break on padre island (remember I was raised there) and this crowd easily matched those numbers.

Beck didn't mention Obama's name once and the main message was about faith and God. Two words that make liberals cringe.


Liberals are terrified of this guy. Anyone who can mobilize that many people is certainly a force to be reckoned with, especially in an election year. And unlike Democrat protests these people weren't paid protestors bused in.

H*ll I hear the huffington post is offering cash rewards for anything that they can use to discredit him.


So...



Did you pick up?
#73 Aug 31 2010 at 9:09 AM Rating: Good
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Aripyanfar wrote:
Did you pick up?


He better have; there were some lookers! Whoooowheeee!
#74 Aug 31 2010 at 9:10 AM Rating: Excellent
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I was told 5 different estimates and made my own thoughts on the matter? No kidding, that's what I said. You seem to think you know a lot about how I decide things. What an odd duck you are.
You've been brainwashed to analyze and process information locke! That's the liberal machine at work. Smiley: schooled
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#75 Aug 31 2010 at 2:54 PM Rating: Default
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Quiet, dear, the grown-ups are talking.


The "grown-ups" are just participating in their regular liberal circle jerk. But hey, whatever you want to call it.
#76 Aug 31 2010 at 3:00 PM Rating: Good
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AlexanderrOfAsura wrote:
The "grown-ups" are just participating in their regular liberal circle jerk.

I'm not sure what to make of a guy who tries to jump into a circle jerk but... ummm... hrm.




I'm going to stand over... here now.
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Belkira wrote:
Wow. Regular ol' Joph fan club in here.
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