Homosexuals in the MarinesFollow

gbaji has a shower fixation

FTFY also!

You wouldn't assume that a woman who didn't want to shower in front of men had an irrational fear of sex or men, yet you assume that a man not wanting to shower in front of gay men must have an irrational fear of homosexuals? Why?

And for the record, I agree absolutely. I think we should eliminate all sexual separations. We should have unisex bathrooms, showers, and other facilities. We should allow public nudity. We should treat men and women equally, and yes, we should allow gays to openly serve in the military. Of course, that requires a society in which we don't care about or are bothered by the sexual implications of our physical forms.

We aren't even remotely there though. My point is the double standard of demanding immediate acceptance of that sort of social change among one group in one situation, while ignoring it in others.

I'll point out again my general observation that these sorts of things are pushed far more often based on the identification of a victim group than on any sort of real principle. If it were principled, they'd be pushing to eliminate all of these sorts of restrictions. But it's not really about getting people to get past their own sexual hangups, but is about using a single aspect of this which can be made to fit into a "gay rights" paradigm as a political tool.

The same pathetic reason is why we don't have joint showers for men and women in the military either though, isn't it? Why make a huge "cause" out of one, but not the other?

What do you mean safety issue? Like a fire hazard or something?


Or are you saying that men can't be trusted to shower with someone they find attractive without taking some kind of inappropriate action? Cause that doesn't exactly strengthen the whole "openly gay men in the military" argument...



So you'd be ok with allowing openly gay people in the military, as long as we provided separate facilities for them? That's your solution?

The problem with your solution is that it pretty much requires Americans in general to grow the fuck up and stop being squeamish, self-important nancy-boys. Unfortunately I don't see that happening any time soon, unless Mexico really steps up their game and starts shelling us for a generation or two.

They solved the issue of having women in their militaries without having to provide separate facilities for them? Really? Which ones?

You're playing bait and switch games Joph. The "solution" to the problem with women not wanting to have to share facilities with men, but still be able to serve has been to provide separate facilities for them. Thus, if we are to treat these two problems similarly, we should provide separate facilities for gays in the military.

Assuming you believe that men and women should both be treated equally, of course? Now, if you're an advocate for having sexist double standards than by all means insist that men should be able to handle what women can't. Sexist!



It's not a proxy argument at all. I know you want to pretend it is, but I'll clue you in on something. I don't really care what other countries do. In this country, we're supposed to have principles involving equality. We're supposed to have a 14th amendment which specifically says you can't discriminate on the basis of gender. If you support a policy which requires men to have to endure something which we spend insane amounts of money to protect women from then I'm going to oppose that policy.


If we are to argue that heterosexual men will just have to live with the fact that they'll have to shower and dress in front of men who might view them as sexual objects, then we must argue that women will have to live with it as well. To do any less would be a double standard and violates the equal rights of men. And no. I'm not actually being tongue in cheek here. This whole thing is about rights and equality, so how about for just one time we actually apply the principles of rights and equality instead of replacing them with special treatment for protected victim groups like we usually do?


This is yet another case in which the left pretends to care about principles, but really is just playing more identity politics. It's so predictable.

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 7:59pm by gbaji

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!

That was funny. Let me know when you grow up and want to actually talk about the issue rather than try to do anything but.

"But... but.... but... girls!!! WOMEN!!! In the ARMY!!! Can't talk about homosexu--- GIRLS!!!! OMG!!!!"


They already do. And they already have to. So, with that out of the way, maybe you can stop crying about girls for just a minute? Loved the part about equality though... it's the lulz that make it so funny. You're sounding stupid even for your usual anti-homosexual rhetoric.

Not to mention the obvious either but...

Men will be serving with gay dudes. Women will be serving with lesbians (they might even have to... gasp!... shower with them!). Both will be treated equally by gender. There is absolutely no "discrimination" going on here on the basis of gender. Gbaji's argument is... well, at least his stupidest one today. Maybe this week but I haven't been reading the Prop 8 thread very closely.

Also, for someone so worked into a lather over gender equality, it's funny that Gbaji has never once advocated for women in full combat roles in the military nor for women to be equally eligible under the draft. I guess he never really gave a shit until he saw it was a good way to keep discriminating against homosexuals and carry water for the GOP. Who would have guessed?


This again ignores the fact that they're serving with homosexual men and women right this very second

Edited, Aug 26th 2010 10:33pm by Jophiel

BRB.

My mother, who was a WAC before the army unified, said there were lesbians in her barracks. She didn't mind. They left her alone, mostly. They were also much better than the straight sluts that stole her nice panties and cut slits in them.

(In my teenage naivety, I asked my mother why the heck someone would ruin a perfectly good pair of panties by slitting them. The look she gave me, sort of this mixture of pity and relief, will forever stay burned in my mind.)



Edited, Aug 27th 2010 1:24am by catwho

It could be like Piers Anthony's Bio of a Space Tyrant, where men and women in space were forced to prove they were straight by sleeping with someone of the opposite sex at least once a week.

Just how much time do these miserable ***** spend in the fUcking shower? I'm not paying them to get clean, I'm paying them to kill brown people.